South West Birmingham network review

[PM]

I think converting any other BC routes to single deck would be a struggle to be honest, they're all pretty busy but I'd say the 24 or 56/90 if anything - if the 29 can cope with single deckers I'm sure the 24 can. I just don't understand why they're converting the 98 to double deck. It really doesn't need it, every time I see it pull away from the Square Peg you can count the amount of passengers on one hand.

The conversion of the 29 to single deck coincided with an increase in frequency to every 10 mins at the last SW Birmingham review. It copes ok with single decks off peak during the week but can get pretty full in rush hour and on Saturdays. A slightly delayed bus is soon wedged to capacity.

Incidentally why are single deckers on the 29 so rigidly enforced? In all the time since it was converted I've seen only one double decker on there, an ex LH 446x Trident, and that was some time ago. Are there any issues with trees around Black Haynes Rd / Swarthmore Rd?

Can't think of any issues along any part of the 29/29A route. The frequency could do with an increase though. I really would at this review take the opportunity to undo some of the stuff done at the last review. Ie bring back the 62, 21, 29 on previous route, 44 reroute 27. Though on a less radical note, the 98 doesnt need deckers in fact I think that would undo much of the routes success-it is seen as the poshest bristol road route and thats why people like catching it-putting deckers on would increase vandalism and reduce passenger friendliness and the route doesnt justify deckers. The X64 needs to have something done with it but the 98 and 29 are ok, possibly frequency increases for the 29? Without looking at loading data I wouldnt know but it certainly seems a fairly busy route

[Justin Tyme]

... Though on a less radical note, the 98 doesnt need deckers in fact I think that would undo much of the routes success-it is seen as the poshest bristol road route and thats why people like catching it-putting deckers on would increase vandalism and reduce passenger friendliness and the route doesnt justify deckers.

The occasional Enviro 200 has been used on the 98 a number of times recently - there's been one today.

[Mike K]

I know the school working in the afternoon can sometimes be a double decker, however it starts at Shenley Academy.
Some ex Selly Oak drivers told me that the number 12 would go down Swarthmore/ Black Haynes and they used to be double deckers. I used to hate duty 18, 14:35 off Snow Hill, so by the time you get to outside Northfield Manor School the parents are parking on both sides of the road, add to that the bus in front going the other way and you'll be stuck

In the days of Selly Oak garage it was the 73 (old 20 and 73 Northfield to Woodgate Valley South) that went along Swarthmore Road and Black Haynes Road and yes, they were double deckers. Wasn't sure if the trees now presented problems along this route.

[Sayeed]

The 10 is just too infrequent these days (and not much quicker with Augustus Road being a rat run) to make it a viable alternative. A pity, in it's heyday it was every 15 mins and ran all day including Sundays.

I used travel to school on this route and that is when NXWM operated it. Can't argue with not being quicker but one thing that I liked that route it goes through to Five ways than 24 being stuck in the morning traffic at High Street/Harborne Rd.

[Sayeed]

Though on a less radical note, the 98 doesnt need deckers in fact I think that would undo much of the routes success-it is seen as the poshest bristol road route and thats why people like catching it-putting deckers on would increase vandalism and reduce passenger friendliness and the route doesnt justify deckers.

98 definitely need double deckers, you just don't know what it looks like, travelling at the evening peak time from the city, stuck in the traffic at Aston Webb Blvd and it takes like half an hour to get to the Sainsbury's at Selly Oak. Loading of this route is nightmare, it's packed between city and QEH, seen numerous times, drivers refused to pick the passengers at University station. Students of BCFE also use that route as there is only 2 routes operating from city and can be packed at any time if 63 delays.

P.S: sorry if it's sound rude

[Liverpool Street]

Though on a less radical note, the 98 doesnt need deckers in fact I think that would undo much of the routes success-it is seen as the poshest bristol road route and thats why people like catching it-putting deckers on would increase vandalism and reduce passenger friendliness and the route doesnt justify deckers.

98 definitely need double deckers, you just don't know what it looks like, travelling at the evening peak time from the city, stuck in the traffic at Aston Webb Blvd and it takes like half an hour to get to the Sainsbury's at Selly Oak. Loading of this route is nightmare, it's packed between city and QEH, seen numerous times, drivers refused to pick the passengers at University station. Students of BCFE also use that route as there is only 2 routes operating from city and can be packed at any time if 63 delays.

P.S: sorry if it's sound rude

This.


For some reason I see it busier on the 98 to Q.E. then the 99? Odd. But still, the Bristol Road South section can be deadly if that 63 is delayed (usually is)

[PM]

Though on a less radical note, the 98 doesnt need deckers in fact I think that would undo much of the routes success-it is seen as the poshest bristol road route and thats why people like catching it-putting deckers on would increase vandalism and reduce passenger friendliness and the route doesnt justify deckers.

98 definitely need double deckers, you just don't know what it looks like, travelling at the evening peak time from the city, stuck in the traffic at Aston Webb Blvd and it takes like half an hour to get to the Sainsbury's at Selly Oak. Loading of this route is nightmare, it's packed between city and QEH, seen numerous times, drivers refused to pick the passengers at University station. Students of BCFE also use that route as there is only 2 routes operating from city and can be packed at any time if 63 delays.

P.S: sorry if it's sound rude

Surely though on a 20 minute route the frequency is hardly very good so your first solution would be to up the frequency to nearer the saturation point and then consider deckers

[Kevin]

Personally, I'd cut both the 98 and 99 to city - selly oak / harborne, and up the frequency of each to 15 mins, I've only ever seen those routes as being useful as shutte type services, and other more direct routes such as a 10 city - harborne - quinton - halesowen can easily cover the rest of the routes.

[Mike K]

Personally, I'd cut both the 98 and 99 to city - selly oak / harborne, and up the frequency of each to 15 mins, I've only ever seen those routes as being useful as shutte type services, and other more direct routes such as a 10 city - harborne - quinton - halesowen can easily cover the rest of the routes.

They do however provide valuable links from south and west Birmingham to the QE for Hospital workers and visitors. The 99 carries healthy loads over the section Quinton to QE, can't speak for the Halesowen end.

[Liverpool Street]

Personally, I'd cut both the 98 and 99 to city - selly oak / harborne, and up the frequency of each to 15 mins, I've only ever seen those routes as being useful as shutte type services, and other more direct routes such as a 10 city - harborne - quinton - halesowen can easily cover the rest of the routes.

They do however provide valuable links from south and west Birmingham to the QE for Hospital workers and visitors. The 99 carries healthy loads over the section Quinton to QE, can't speak for the Halesowen end.

I can.

You get many elderly people within the village whom get off at Q. Church but very very light loadings down to Halesowen. You only get busy from Halesowen if the other services are late/people just missed them.

[Kevin]

Personally, I'd cut both the 98 and 99 to city - selly oak / harborne, and up the frequency of each to 15 mins, I've only ever seen those routes as being useful as shutte type services, and other more direct routes such as a 10 city - harborne - quinton - halesowen can easily cover the rest of the routes.

They do however provide valuable links from south and west Birmingham to the QE for Hospital workers and visitors. The 99 carries healthy loads over the section Quinton to QE, can't speak for the Halesowen end.

I can.

You get many elderly people within the village whom get off at Q. Church but very very light loadings down to Halesowen. You only get busy from Halesowen if the other services are late/people just missed them.

Ok, curtail it to Quinton then. Even then I think it's asking a bit much for a relatively major route to the city centre to run round the Welsh House Farm estate when there's enough larger roads around it for buses to run and stop within still easy enough walking distance

[Trident 4609]

Yes the 99 does seem empty when it leaves Halesowen. I see more people catch The VIP 99 on a sunday than the NX mon-sat 99. Don't see its loads often enough to comment but i will ask matt as he will bound to know living in Halesowen

[PM]

Yes the 99 does seem empty when it leaves Halesowen. I see more people catch The VIP 99 on a sunday than the NX mon-sat 99. Don't see it loads often enough to comment but i will ask matt as he will bound to know living in Halesowen

Thats why Im so surprised that it justifies competition by VIP-there are much much busier routes around to compete on

[Stuharris 6360]

Yes the 99 does seem empty when it leaves Halesowen. I see more people catch The VIP 99 on a sunday than the NX mon-sat 99. Don't see it loads often enough to comment but i will ask matt as he will bound to know living in Halesowen

Thats why Im so surprised that it justifies competition by VIP-there are much much busier routes around to compete on

Whenever i have been on a 99, the loading is very heavy out of Birmingham, but past Harbourne and it seems to quieten down a lot!

[Liverpool Street]

Yes the 99 does seem empty when it leaves Halesowen. I see more people catch The VIP 99 on a sunday than the NX mon-sat 99. Don't see it loads often enough to comment but i will ask matt as he will bound to know living in Halesowen

Thats why Im so surprised that it justifies competition by VIP-there are much much busier routes around to compete on

NXWM didn't want the night / Sunday / early 99's as there was no money to be made. If they want to save money they should give that 99 to VIP full time as I can't see it being that profitable with the volume of empty journeys. (Or just curtail very short, I can't see it lasting too)

That's what I'd do personally. Great route to stick to time on though. Fantastic.