Double doors on buses

[Tony]

I think in a way London Buses have to have two doors (3 in some cases), Londoners seem to be a whole different breed of commuter.

They expect buses to come along when they want it (and moan if they just miss one even if the next one is in view), and believe me, if London Buses only had one door, there would be a running battle for people trying to get on against people trying to get off. Londoners only have time for one person and that is themselves.

You say that, but at least there is some order on escalators to the tube in London. Stand still on the right, walk on the left. I wish that rule applied up here and elsewhere in this country

[Kevin]

I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.

London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses

Perhaps my post previous to this wasn't worded brilliantly and was more or less responding to my own post so I can see why you didn't see my point, so I'll try again... My opinion is that (from experience of them) London buses don't have as much of a problem of having to get rid of so many people from a single bus, because there aren't as many people on the bus, which in turn is because there are a lot more buses, whereas here the buses aren't as frequent as they need to be.

In response to your post I did understand your point, but to me it's not a valid arguement, because even with having to wait for people to come down the stairs first, there's still a fair number of people that can get on the bus first, and those that are getting off can get off quicker because there's less of a crowd in the way at the only door, every little bit of time saved helps, especially when repeated a number of times along the route.

I'll certainly give you the point people can alight faster, that is nothing to do with bus design, but the ignorance of many people waiting to board trying to get on or just stand in the way of people alighting, If people queued properly and stood back until everyone was off it wouldn't matter where the door was

Therefore it would make things quicker...? I wasn't just going on the single stage of people transferring between bus and pavement (christ if I had my way some of them would be head first from the upstairs window), but the whole process including the massed hoardes waiting to scramble past the driver so he gets as short a glimpse of their out of date daysaver as possible, and the useless idiots who forget where they wanted to get off and have to barge their way through the people blocking the entrance because everyone else has already got off.

[Kevin]

I think in a way London Buses have to have two doors (3 in some cases), Londoners seem to be a whole different breed of commuter.

They expect buses to come along when they want it (and moan if they just miss one even if the next one is in view), and believe me, if London Buses only had one door, there would be a running battle for people trying to get on against people trying to get off. Londoners only have time for one person and that is themselves.

You say that, but at least there is some order on escalators to the tube in London. Stand still on the right, walk on the left. I wish that rule applied up here and elsewhere in this country

I wish a lot of things in London applied everywhere else, constantly in awe of the place, whenever I need to go there I'll deliberately take extra time than I need just so I can watch it all

[4006]

Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?

Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.

Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe

Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?

[Kevin]

Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?

As I said, pretty sure that coversation has been had before on here and the response was "actually it's not that much of a problem"

[The Real 4778]

So what percentage of the time is the LED on, and what percentage of time is it off?

I have spoken to my expert on these matters, she advises the blink rate of public transport LEDs used in PIS displays is three times per second, meaning 180 flickers per minute obviously. 

I suspect that this means the LED is lit say 75% of the time, lighting up or dimming about 15% of the time, and blank for about 10%.

[The Real 4778]

Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe

That bus looks beautiful - EXCEPT for those awful BMAC rear light clusters  >:(

[Justin Tyme]

Who remembers the short Walsall dual door Fleetlines?  Apart from the early ones (most of which WMPTE converted to dual door), they had a narrow front door and a full width sliding door two bays back.  When used with driver and conductor, only the sliding door was used.  When one person operated the front door was used as the entrance and the sliding door as the exit.

My recollections, from the mid-1970s, was that the air-operated sliding door took ages to open and close.  Many of them only had Gardner 6LW engines, so get a good load and progress could be slow, even when not opo.  They helped make Walsall interesting for the enthusiast (along with many other vehicles) but PTE standard Fleetlines and VRTs must have made life easier.

[Stevo]

Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?

I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.

[Stuharris 6360]

Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?

Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.

Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe

Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?

Yes Stourbridge garage had 6292/3 and they were single door, however they had another one (may have been 6267 or something like that) and it still had its middle door!

[BU07 LGO]

Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?

I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.

Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF

[Liverpool Street]

Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?

I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.

Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF

Looks higher spec then NXWM ones!! Nice!

[BU07 LGO]

Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?

I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.

Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF

Looks higher spec then NXWM ones!! Nice!

Then you see their Airlink Gemini's....


http://www.flickr.com/photos/27204054@N07/4907207273/in/photolist-8tCHKX-8tEGuJ-8tEGuq-8tEGum-8jFDNS-8jCrix-8jCm9F-8jFyBS-8tCHL6-8pPFDG-aeFuaU-8qykR9-9hFy8H-dXtK7c-9wViqt-9yqBi9-9ynz3k-9yqfQb-9ynBSe-9ynASV-9ynAaa-9yqCEq-9yqyp7-9ynymR-9yqAhq-9yqzwq-9ynCbM-9ynCuK-9zhU8V-9yqXRs-9ynzp2-9yqh5m-beXypz-aDwF6c-eTvLfL-eTvN9m-9xGUgw-7MGknS-bXiLtQ-9EB8kH-eTcs1E-eTceow-eTcJH5-7MGkWS-7Q91P9-coptTq-dWpWtK-9ktP8n-bXiKof-8x4ZFL-beXysB

compared to:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55318994@N07/5655722510/in/photolist-9BM4g5-csEhv7-9BM4gf

[Liverpool Street]

Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.

[Mike K]

Sounds like you've had a bad day Rat. Bristol Road getting you down again? I'm sure it wasn't like that back in the day of the SOE---H jumbo Fleetlines* although you did have to watch out on the 63 for odd characters who were on day release from the old Rubery Hill mental hospitals.

* Keeping it on topic with reference to dual door Fleetlines.