Comp on Bham routes since dereg. Which corridors have benefitted the most?

[Westy]

I used to enjoy the brief choice of TWM & Diamond on the 529, especially if TWM were running late, then for 50p & my pass, I didnt have to hang around, especially as I could do the same on the 301.

It was daft getting rid of that 50p subsidy.

Bums on seats, isnt that what they want?

I believe Arriva might still do something similar, is that right?

[fleetline6477]

Little Red Bus tried a great number of routes with Dodge Minibuses  B14, B17, B23, B29, B87 among many others.

They got heavily into tendered work including Sundays on the 144 Birmingham - Malvern.

[winston]

Little Red Bus tried a great number of routes with Dodge Minibuses  B14, B17, B23, B29, B87 among many others.

They got heavily into tendered work including Sundays on the 144 Birmingham - Malvern.

What happened to the Little Red Bus Co? I can't remember what became of them

[winston]

The Dudley Road services always saw a lot of competition a few years back, then its all dropped off.

i.e. 82 & 88 - Thandi Companies (Transol, MBC1, Lynx Solutions), Falcon Travel, Did BCC not also have a go on the 82 for a short period?

87 - BCC / Little Red Bus Co

[Stu]

Some years back now, when I lived in Bearwood while working near Erdington, and while having a monthly Centro pass (whatever they were called back then, but known as the nBus now!) I used to catch the 82 into Birmingham (as at peak times it could be quicker than getting the 120/128/258 along the Hagley Road, and less crowded!), and there was some 'scummy' little operator (forget the name now as they used unliveried buses) who also operated the 82, and I'd prefer to catch that one if I could as they used to go down Great Charles Street, rather than the NXWM 82/87 route round by Smallbrook Queensway.

I do now remember Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond also operating a competing 87 service though I never used it myself, did theirs only used to go as far as Oldbury though?

On a similar note, on the 120 route, as well as Travel West Midlands (at the time), you also had Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond as well as Sunny Travel competing also (though Sunny Travel only operated to/from Oldbury/Birmingham). Now there is only NXWM.

[winston]

I do now remember Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond also operating a competing 87 service though I never used it myself, did theirs only used to go as far as Oldbury though?

I think BCC's 87 has done B'ham - Oldbury & the full length route over the years

[sonic84]

Some years back now, when I lived in Bearwood while working near Erdington, and while having a monthly Centro pass (whatever they were called back then, but known as the nBus now!) I used to catch the 82 into Birmingham (as at peak times it could be quicker than getting the 120/128/258 along the Hagley Road, and less crowded!), and there was some 'scummy' little operator (forget the name now as they used unliveried buses) who also operated the 82, and I'd prefer to catch that one if I could as they used to go down Great Charles Street, rather than the NXWM 82/87 route round by Smallbrook Queensway.

I do now remember Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond also operating a competing 87 service though I never used it myself, did theirs only used to go as far as Oldbury though?

On a similar note, on the 120 route, as well as Travel West Midlands (at the time), you also had Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond as well as Sunny Travel competing also (though Sunny Travel only operated to/from Oldbury/Birmingham). Now there is only NXWM.

Birmingham Coach Company used to match the WMT frequency on the 120 along the full route, with both running at every 20 minutes during the daytime.  I think for a short while didn't BCC also have the tendered evening service on the 120 as well.  It always surprised me that they came off the 120 since they gave it a good go for many years.... and once they did come off it, NXWM increased the frequency to every 10 minutes between Oldbury and Birmingham

[Stu]

Some years back now, when I lived in Bearwood while working near Erdington, and while having a monthly Centro pass (whatever they were called back then, but known as the nBus now!) I used to catch the 82 into Birmingham (as at peak times it could be quicker than getting the 120/128/258 along the Hagley Road, and less crowded!), and there was some 'scummy' little operator (forget the name now as they used unliveried buses) who also operated the 82, and I'd prefer to catch that one if I could as they used to go down Great Charles Street, rather than the NXWM 82/87 route round by Smallbrook Queensway.

I do now remember Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond also operating a competing 87 service though I never used it myself, did theirs only used to go as far as Oldbury though?

On a similar note, on the 120 route, as well as Travel West Midlands (at the time), you also had Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond as well as Sunny Travel competing also (though Sunny Travel only operated to/from Oldbury/Birmingham). Now there is only NXWM.

Birmingham Coach Company used to match the WMT frequency on the 120 along the full route, with both running at every 20 minutes during the daytime.  I think for a short while didn't BCC also have the tendered evening service on the 120 as well.  It always surprised me that they came off the 120 since they gave it a good go for many years.... and once they did come off it, NXWM increased the frequency to every 10 minutes between Oldbury and Birmingham

You're right about the 120; BCC/Diamond and TWM/NXWM combined to provide a 10min frequency along the whole route, then Sunny Travel filled in also between Birmingham and Oldbury, so with a Centro pass, when I used to live with my parents, I was spoilt for choice! Those were the good days! As I recall, once Diamond came off the 120, NXWM increased their frequency to 15 minutes, when WB operated it, which then changed a couple of years ago (after the Dudley Review and the route passed to PE), which saw the overall frequency reduced back to 20 mins, with additional 120E journeys to Oldbury, providing a 10min frequency between Oldbury and Birmingham.

Evening and Sunday journeys were every hour, but are now half-hourly, no complaints here!

[fleetline6477]

The Dudley Road services always saw a lot of competition a few years back, then its all dropped off.

i.e. 82 & 88 - Thandi Companies (Transol, MBC1, Lynx Solutions), Falcon Travel, Did BCC not also have a go on the 82 for a short period?

87 - BCC / Little Red Bus Co

I don't ever remember Falcon travel on Dudley Road routes. BCC have nver done 82 to my memory. When Thandi Travcel came off the 82 / 88E Pete's travel began operating these routes. The 82 was short lived but the 88E carried on longer.

[winston]

The Dudley Road services always saw a lot of competition a few years back, then its all dropped off.

i.e. 82 & 88 - Thandi Companies (Transol, MBC1, Lynx Solutions), Falcon Travel, Did BCC not also have a go on the 82 for a short period?

87 - BCC / Little Red Bus Co

I don't ever remember Falcon travel on Dudley Road routes. BCC have nver done 82 to my memory. When Thandi Travcel came off the 82 / 88E Pete's travel began operating these routes. The 82 was short lived but the 88E carried on longer.

Maybe I'm getting confused with Falcon Travel then, I remember frequently seeing their buses at the bottom end of New St where the Dudley Road services once went from

I had forgotten about Pete's having a go as well

[Steveminor]

Winston Lttle Red Bus sold off most of their buses to buy 4 Marshall darts & rent 3 Plaxton mini darts operating under the trading name Rec Arrow Express on the 17 & 97 alongside Petes travel, Cityspeed Bharat & Serverse Travel as part of the United consortium. The two directors later sold the business to Bharat & moved down to Devon where they now operate as Summercourt Travel alongside the 2 directors of Cityspeed who also sold up to Bharats.
Bharats had a very good business building until the 3 of the 4 directors were jailed for VAT fraud. I left shortly afterwards when it became apparent that the remaining Director was more interested in personal wealth over the viability of the business "he was taking as much out of the business as possible for hself including selling the darts to replace them with cheap minibuses & pocketing the difference. Had that not happened Bharats could have been a strong force in the bus industry with the money they had behind them. They have built the business back onto a very strong footing again although now they are concentrating on the coach business & their express network where they compete against Thandi

[winston]

Winston Lttle Red Bus sold off most of their buses to buy 4 Marshall darts & rent 3 Plaxton mini darts operating under the trading name Rec Arrow Express on the 17 & 97 alongside Petes travel, Cityspeed Bharat & Serverse Travel as part of the United consortium. The two directors later sold the business to Bharat & moved down to Devon where they now operate as Summercourt Travel alongside the 2 directors of Cityspeed who also sold up to Bharats.
Bharats had a very good business building until the 3 of the 4 directors were jailed for VAT fraud. I left shortly afterwards when it became apparent that the remaining Director was more interested in personal wealth over the viability of the business "he was taking as much out of the business as possible for hself including selling the darts to replace them with cheap minibuses & pocketing the difference. Had that not happened Bharats could have been a strong force in the bus industry with the money they had behind them. They have built the business back onto a very strong footing again although now they are concentrating on the coach business & their express network where they compete against Thandi

Thanks Steve, yes I remember Red Arrow Express, didn't realise they originated from the Little Red Bus Co. As it happens I'll be in Perranporth, Cornwall this time next week, so will get to see Summercourt Travel & how Western Greyhound are doing after the fire.

Would I be right in saying that the express coach network that both Thandi & Bharats compete offer destinations aimed at the Asian community rather than competing with NX?

From your various posts, you seem as though you have been involved with quite a few of the smaller WM operators over the years

[Steveminor]

Yes Winston I prefer working with the smaller operators instead of NX & still have contact & lend advice to several every few weeks even though I now work full time outside the bus industry.
Bharat & Thandis express networks do mainly aim for the Asian communities however they do compete with NX although they compete with each other a lot harder it has been known for fights to break out when Thandi have entered Bharats Birmingham or southall coach stations. Truth be told Bharats are much stronger than Thandi & operate a much more extensive network including services to Leeds & Bradford. The Leicester Southall service is operated jointly between the Birmingham & London depots the leed/Bradford service only operates on the days when the birmingham depot isn't operating the Leicester service. It's a very Strang kind of set up where asian people just seem to know when the coaches are due & don't need timetables or leaflets.
You can even send parcels & food on thd coaches without travelling.
It's hard to describe, you have to work their to fully understand it.
It certainly was an experience I will never forget much much different to operating the stage carriage service.

[winston]

Steve, thanks for the info, did you ever start out at NX or predecessor then?

I tend to find with my clients in the Architectural Metalwork industry, that working for the smaller companies is far friendlier & what you do as a sub contractor is far more appreciated, where the bigger firms are far more contractual and happily screw you over, even if they run the risk of you never working for them again

[Steveminor]

I started out with Claribels when they first started out in the buses back when they were using old Ford coaches & having to fuel up with whatever money they had taken (that's why occasionally you would see the Tiger Doyens of the little caetano on service (ford didnt have enough fuel as it hadn't taken enough money. Back then Claribels were seen as a complete joke.
That's why I get defensive over some of the operators people slate on here as some of them show good promise just a slight cash flow problem at present, but they DO want to do things right.

Yeah Winston I find the smaller companies appreciate you more, even an NX inspector (or 2) has said they are just treated as a number rather than a person.