£81 Million Investment in West Midlands Bus Network

[winston]

And of course Quality Contract really encourage small operators don't they, err how many small operators are currently running TfL Contracts which are exactly the same as Quality Contracts would be - zero!

Hate to be a party pooper but what about http://www.ctplus.org/red_bus_our_routes_ctplus aka HTC group or am I missing something.

Have a look where CTplus run buses and then call them a small operator, Bristol, Jersey, Guernsey, Leeds, Hull, Wakefield, London. Only difference is they are not a PLC

But surely the fact that the market gets opened up atall and other players can get in is positive.  Personally I think the bus industry has been made far too difficult for small companies to make a serious impression with all this 'quality this and quality that', you need a bloody good lawyer to be in business atall and people just can't afford the start up costs or manage the infrastructure required.

The whole industry is now geared around big groups, but at least under the Contract system you don't get one operator monopolies, that's all I'm saying.

I don't think NXWM travelcards or their dominance is any more a barrier to entry for smaller operators now than it was back in WMT days, there were numerous smaller operators competing successfully against WMT in the early late 1980's early 1990's. If anything, I think the problem that prevents smaller operators competing effectively and making a profit are the higher fuel costs they have to pay over the big bus groups which buy in bulk & hedge their fuel requirements a couple of years in advance. Additionally insurance costs have gone through the roof since all the no win/no fee solicitors turned the UK in to the States with people wanting compensation for everything. Additionally, the stricter controls that are now imposed on minimum vehicle age/emissions mean they have to buy newer vehicles, 20 years ago the competition were using large fleets of Leyland Nationals

[Kevin_Brum12]

Also the Centro SQBP zone in Birmingham City Centre will be a barrier for a smaller operator wishing to enter into the Birmingham market and take on NXWM - unless they are only willing to run short to cream off passengers on the intermediate parts of a route.  The days of running tatty cast off vehicles on trunk corridors from city centre termini are long gone and if an operator wants to compete they need to have a decent quality fleet (e.g. Diamond, Green Bus, Claribels) but make sure the sums add up.

[Tony]

Also the Centro SQBP zone in Birmingham City Centre will be a barrier for a smaller operator wishing to enter into the Birmingham market and take on NXWM - unless they are only willing to run short to cream off passengers on the intermediate parts of a route.  The days of running tatty cast off vehicles on trunk corridors from city centre termini are long gone and if an operator wants to compete they need to have a decent quality fleet (e.g. Diamond, Green Bus, Claribels) but make sure the sums add up.

The SQBP zone doesn't make any difference to a new entrant, the cheapest buses you 8am get at the moment are ex London, which all qualify

[winston]

During the course of the next two years, I'd like to see NXWM upgrade the following routes/garages:

AG:
Outer Circle to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor (Hybrids would be nice due to it being high profile, but may be unrealistic due to high Pvr) - to be branded
966 upgraded to new double deckers to receive Airport branding
1 to receive new branding
Further ex AG Presidents to Dundee & WB, plus further to a new garage that doesn't currently operate the type (possibly CV or WA)

BC:
Pershore Road to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor - to be branded
Bristol Road to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor - to be branded
900 to receive Airport branding
Tridents to be cascaded to PE, WN & YW

BY:
55 to be upgraded with new branded single deckers - frequency increased
Omnilinks to be refurbished & branded for upgrading Inner Circle 8A/8C - to be branded
ex 55 Omnilinks to WA & YW

CV:
13 to be upgraded with new double decker hybrids & branded
ex 13 Gemini to transfer to route 10 & be branded
Could receive a batch of Presidents to allow further Merc withdrawals as they already operate Volvo B7TL's

PB:
We already know that the Sutton Lines are to be upgraded with new double deckers, this should also be upgraded to gold corridor & branded
New double deckers on the 94 - to be branded
07/57 Enviro 400's to be refurbished & branded for the 16
Majority of NXC Omnilinks to PB to allow withdrawal of all remaining B10L

PE:
Hagley Road to be upgraded to gold corridor - refurbishment of existing Enviro 400 to be completed / new branding etc
246 to have refurbished Tridents - to be branded
276 to have new single deckers & be branded
297 to have new single deckers
X96 to have refurbished Tridents - to be branded & have a frequency increase
All B6LE & further Mercs withdrawn

WA:
10 to receive refurbished Tridents & be branded
40/41 to receive refurbished Tridents & be branded
Walsall Road to upgraded to Gold Corridor
934 / 935 / 936 to receive generic branding
997 to receive new double deckers & new branding
Remainder of ex NXC Omnilinks to WA to allow further B10L withdrawals
ex BY 55 Omnilinks to allow withdrawal of B10L

WB:
Dudley Road to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor with new/revised branding
ex Dudley Road 06 Gemini & 54 plate Gemini to be refurbished & branded for Soho Rd services
To receive a further batch of E200's to allow all B6LE & ALX200's to be withdrawn & those routes upgraded to new buses throughout
42 & 43 to be upgraded with new full size single deckers & branded
48 to be upgraded with refurbished Presidents (ex AG & YW) & branded

WN:
To receive a batch of E200's to allow all remaining B6LE to be withdrawn & those routes upgraded to new buses
126 to be upgraded with new double deckers & branded - to coincide with Hagley Rd gold corridor
ex BC Tridents to be refurbished & branded for the 79
Spectras & further Mercs to be withdrawn

YW:
50 to be upgraded with new double deckers & remain branded (Hybrids would be nice & be one over on the competition)
57 reg ex 50 Enviro 400's to be refurbished & used to upgrade the 35
further ex BC Tridents to allow all Presidents to be withdrawn
ex 55 BY Omnilinks to allow withdrawal of all remaining B10L

TWM brand & TWM livery finally removed, early NX repaints tidied up externally

Please note that these are just my thoughts only (and expecting them to be ripped to shreds.....  :P)

The above moves seem to fit with the quantity of new buses due, the lion's share of new buses are concentrated in the areas/current NXWM garage with some of the oldest double deckers needing investment (i.e. AG, BC, PB & WB), a large number of profile/high frequency would be upgraded and additional core routes that face competition. I think the above would most of the requests for upgrades that typically crop up on the forum and cover a large area of the West Midlands.

What's noticeable is if the majority of the 300 new buses are indeed double deckers as I believe they need to be, it's going to get harder & harder to find new homes for surplus Presidents without introducing them to a garage that doesn't currently operate the type i.e. CV or WA (which both already have B7TL's)

What does anything think with my proposals then???? Be gentle.............  ;)

[Liverpool Street]

Winston, I think you've got OTT on the branding front!!

I think you're onto a winner with the move of Presidents to none-Plaxton garages.

[winston]

Winston, I think you've got OTT on the branding front!!

I think you're onto a winner with the move of Presidents to none-Plaxton garages.

The Rat, branding is generally 50/50 as to whether it's liked/disliked, but value your opinion.

I think OTT on the branding front must get awarded to Go North East rather than me  ;) that said it has the desired effect on passenger growth

[Liverpool Street]

Winston, I think you've got OTT on the branding front!!

I think you're onto a winner with the move of Presidents to none-Plaxton garages.

The Rat, branding is generally 50/50 as to whether it's liked/disliked, but value your opinion.

I think OTT on the branding front must get awarded to Go North East rather than me  ;) that said it has the desired effect on passenger growth

I understand the need for branding, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather none at all. Maybe 2/3routes from each garage but nothing more.

I know about GNE, over kill or what?!

And you say 'generic branding' - what's your definition?

[winston]

I know about GNE, over kill or what?!

And you say 'generic branding' - what's your definition?

Ever so slightly, must be a logistical nightmare trying to paint with the correct colour/apply part sections of branding where accident damaged panels have been replaced

Generic as in all 934/935/936 all serve the A34 (Walsall Rd branding or Every so many minutes between B'ham - Perry Barr). they serve common sections for the first part, but the remainder of all routes/final destinations are all different

[Liverpool Street]

I see so, bringing it back home; The 45/47 will be just 'Pershore Road - Every 5 Minutes to Cotteridge' (then the via points)


I can see the PR going branded, but I doubt the BR will. And I dont think the BR will be gold either - it doesn't deserve it.

[winston]

I see so, bringing it back home; The 45/47 will be just 'Pershore Road - Every 5 Minutes to Cotteridge' (then the via points)


I can see the PR going branded, but I doubt the BR will. And I dont think the BR will be gold either - it doesn't deserve it.

Yes something along those lines, the PR branding could feature the sections of route that both the 45/47 serve & could always have final destinations in brackets or something? Depends on the style of branding chosen

I thought the BR was still a core corridor though, I know you've mentioned previously that some of the clientele that use the service leave a lot to be desired, but they are still high frequency services which offer greater passenger growth

[Liverpool Street]

I see so, bringing it back home; The 45/47 will be just 'Pershore Road - Every 5 Minutes to Cotteridge' (then the via points)


I can see the PR going branded, but I doubt the BR will. And I dont think the BR will be gold either - it doesn't deserve it.

Yes something along those lines, the PR branding could feature the sections of route that both the 45/47 serve & could always have final destinations in brackets or something? Depends on the style of branding chosen

I thought the BR was still a core corridor though, I know you've mentioned previously that some of the clientele that use the service leave a lot to be desired, but they are still high frequency services which offer greater passenger growth

Indeed, but it is nothing like the high profile 50 or 97 etc.

Saying that Winston regarding the PR branding, if they continue using the usual branding (like on the 50 etc etc) then it sure will be boring.

Why not add like a green stripe or shape or something between the red and white? Or colour the whole middle between the windows or something. Having a differant branding between the routes rather then the same "shaped" branding with just differant colours etc. (If you understand what I'm waffling about - English Writing isn't a strong point!)

[JackC]

WB:
To receive a further batch of E200's to allow all B6LE & ALX200's to be withdrawn & those routes upgraded to new buses throughout
40 & 41 to be upgraded with new full size single deckers & branded

Firstly, more E200s is a definite need to kill of the remaining B6LEs/Darts but what about killing off the last of the Mercs? As good as they are, should they really be staying in service for another 2 years?

Secondly, I agree with full size single deckers for the 40, as E200s can sometimes get quite full quite quickly, but not for the 41. The 41 uses Darts and I doubt needs anything but Darts.

[Trident 4609]

Winston, I think they should repaint/refurb 4575-83 (Plus 4584 included) tob gain new 126 branding.

[Rob H]

During the course of the next two years, I'd like to see NXWM upgrade the following routes/garages:

BC:
Pershore Road to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor - to be branded
Bristol Road to be upgraded with new double deckers & to become a gold corridor - to be branded
900 to receive Airport branding
Tridents to be cascaded to PE, WN & YW

I would like to see Branding for the 900 & 957 aswell Winston but I don't think its going to happen (it will be great if it did though) but I agree with you about the Pershore Road & Bristol Road Corridors they definitly need NEW Buses at least :)

[winston]

Winston, I think they should repaint/refurb 4575-83 (Plus 4584 included) tob gain new 126 branding.

It's always a possibility, but they will have clocked up a fair few miles by now on the 126.

I was proposing that the Hagley Road become a gold corridor in conjunction with the 126 having a new fleet

WN has had more than its fair share of new buses, so can't see too many of the 300 due heading that way