£81 Million Investment in West Midlands Bus Network

[Roy]

I saw it on the BBC Midlands today yesterday. The agreement is for two years, however I got the impression in the small print somewhere that the 300 buses is over a period of 5 years, however they did say that 25 more will be coming before the end of the year.

The document clearly states that "these 300 new buses will be delivered into the fleet between June 2013 and June 2015".  I am guessing that 4880 onwards are probably part of the 300 - not sure about the Volvo B7RLE's at Coventry.

[winston]

Possibly a Bristol Road gold corridor ?

Good call Roy, stands a good chance, certainly needs the fleet updating

[monkeyjoe]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

[winston]

I saw it on the BBC Midlands today yesterday. The agreement is for two years, however I got the impression in the small print somewhere that the 300 buses is over a period of 5 years, however they did say that 25 more will be coming before the end of the year.

The document clearly states that "these 300 new buses will be delivered into the fleet between June 2013 and June 2015".  I am guessing that 4880 onwards are probably part of the 300 - not sure about the Volvo B7RLE's at Coventry.

Roy, I was thinking the remaining 26 x Enviro 400's outstanding from the 60 thought ordered for this year plus the 15 unconfirmed new vehicles still to be ordered from the NX announcement earlier this year of 130 new buses being due during 2013 would form part of the 300 instead, but then that didn't tie in with the statement that 25 of the 300 buses would be delivered before the end of 2013  ???

[richie]

I vote for the 244 to be a gold route! The amount of rust on some of the early repainted Mercs at least they are already gold  ;D ;D

[winston]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

[Liverpool Street]

I highly doubt the Bristol Road will be gold. Its a sh*thole. You can golden up all the E400's you like but it doesn't get away from the fact that toothless inbred skets will be the majority clientele. Pershore Road deserves it, though. Coventry 900/957 should be gold anyway.

[monkeyjoe]

http://bigcityplan.birmingham.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Birmingham-City-Centre-Vision-for-Movement.pdf


Page 3 for a reminder of the original rapid transport map. I guess will have changed since then.

[andy]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

What I don't understand is why Centro are including NX's already planned fleet replacement in this announcement. Centro have nothing to do with a private bus operator purchasing new vehicles, unless of course they are finding some weird and wonderful way to help fund it which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be!

If you take away those new buses which are nothing to do with Centro, they didn't really have much to announce apart from some new trams for a pointless extension (the trams would have needed replacing soon anyway) and a couple of bus station refurbishments. Typical Centro posturing and waffle to try and justify their existence!

What they should be announcing is what they are doing to repair their half arsed city 'centre' bus access arrangements that are currently rendering bus travel a third rate option.

[Kevin]

As much a cynic as everyone else sometimes, but.... Perhaps, just perhaps, the 300 new buses would be specific to do with this investment, and maybe NXs usual orders are on top of that? I know it's a bit far fetched but if we think of these "Gold" routes or any sort of "Sprint" network then surely buses required for them would require significantly more investment than usual orders for E400s or B7RLEs, which although are new, they are still just run-of-the-mill buses for ordinary routes

[winston]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

What I don't understand is why Centro are including NX's already planned fleet replacement in this announcement. Centro have nothing to do with a private bus operator purchasing new vehicles, unless of course they are finding some weird and wonderful way to help fund it which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be!

Andy, as I see it its all a bit interlinked, NXWM don't want Centro to ever consider introducing quality contracts as it could damage NXWM's position/dominance in the West Midlands, so they pushed to go down the Quality Partnership route instead. As as result of that threat & a change in senior management within NX Group, it is due to those reasons that capital investment levels in new buses at NXWM have been raised, the existing fleet is also been re-freshed and they are trying to improve the quality of the service/vehicle presentation offered. This in turn keeps Centro on side, NX UK bus performance should be improved along with passenger growth, ultimately producing more profits for group and shareholders, ultimately everyone should benefit.

Two years from now NXWM will have a very modern fleet with a low average age, the quantities of new buses committed too will see all B6LE, B10L, Mercs 0405N, Spectra been withdrawn. I think the lion's share of the 300 new buses needs to be double deckers, which hopefully should be the case with the 10 gold corridors being implemented

[winston]

As much a cynic as everyone else sometimes, but.... Perhaps, just perhaps, the 300 new buses would be specific to do with this investment, and maybe NXs usual orders are on top of that? I know it's a bit far fetched but if we think of these "Gold" routes or any sort of "Sprint" network then surely buses required for them would require significantly more investment than usual orders for E400s or B7RLEs, which although are new, they are still just run-of-the-mill buses for ordinary routes

Kevin,

Typically since Dean Finch came on board/The first Centro agreement was signed NX generally buy 120 new buses per year now, so there will be some extra procured, but the extra 60 could also form part of the 130 already announced in Jan/Feb with the fare increase

[monkeyjoe]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

What I don't understand is why Centro are including NX's already planned fleet replacement in this announcement. Centro have nothing to do with a private bus operator purchasing new vehicles, unless of course they are finding some weird and wonderful way to help fund it which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be!

Andy, as I see it its all a bit interlinked, NXWM don't want Centro to ever consider introducing quality contracts as it could damage NXWM's position/dominance in the West Midlands, so they pushed to go down the Quality Partnership route instead. As as result of that threat & a change in senior management within NX Group, it is due to those reasons that capital investment levels in new buses at NXWM have been raised, the existing fleet is also been re-freshed and they are trying to improve the quality of the service/vehicle presentation offered. This in turn keeps Centro on side, NX UK bus performance should be improved along with passenger growth, ultimately producing more profits for group and shareholders, ultimately everyone should benefit.

Two years from now NXWM will have a very modern fleet with a low average age, the quantities of new buses committed too will see all B6LE, B10L, Mercs 0405N, Spectra been withdrawn. I think the lion's share of the 300 new buses needs to be double deckers, which hopefully should be the case with the 10 gold corridors being implemented

I do remember reading an article about NXWM officials going abroad to look at options for the Sprint network, so i guess it would required the additional investment. HOwever the cynic in me reckons that was the plan a couple of years ago for trambus type vechicles realised they are too expensive and will go with Enviro400's. :)

[andy]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

What I don't understand is why Centro are including NX's already planned fleet replacement in this announcement. Centro have nothing to do with a private bus operator purchasing new vehicles, unless of course they are finding some weird and wonderful way to help fund it which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be!

Andy, as I see it its all a bit interlinked, NXWM don't want Centro to ever consider introducing quality contracts as it could damage NXWM's position/dominance in the West Midlands, so they pushed to go down the Quality Partnership route instead. As as result of that threat & a change in senior management within NX Group, it is due to those reasons that capital investment levels in new buses at NXWM have been raised, the existing fleet is also been re-freshed and they are trying to improve the quality of the service/vehicle presentation offered. This in turn keeps Centro on side, NX UK bus performance should be improved along with passenger growth, ultimately producing more profits for group and shareholders, ultimately everyone should benefit.

Two years from now NXWM will have a very modern fleet with a low average age, the quantities of new buses committed too will see all B6LE, B10L, Mercs 0405N, Spectra been withdrawn. I think the lion's share of the 300 new buses needs to be double deckers, which hopefully should be the case with the 10 gold corridors being implemented

As you know I have been a fierce critic of NX's mismanagement of its fleet so you won't find me grumbling when they finally pull their finger out.

However, what I don't like is the pally nature of this announcement between Centro and NX. Quality Partnerships are great, but the problem with them is that they are increasingly inaccessible to smaller or new operators and you end up with what appears to be Centro money being channelled into a private company's coffers so that it buys new vehicles it should have been buying years ago. This is how the announcement makes things appear. To the casual bus user who knows nothing, they would think that Centro and NX are the same thing if they had watched that report on the BBC.

At least Quality Contracts can go to anybody. Centro have been manipulated in my opinion.

My point is that NX should have been buying ages ago, and now we can see why they didn't bother! Does nothing for competition in the area and as you say, just increases and strengthens NX's dominance and monopoly....and enables them to cream off even more for their shareholders without having to invest independently. Not healthy.

[monkeyjoe]

Without being too much of a cynic, it is all very good PR. However the "300" new buses surely would have been part of a business plan for a long time anyway, because let's face it compared to other area's the fleet isn't exactly top nouch is it. (However I accept there is worse).

PR that's what its all about..... to date generally NX now buy 120/130 new buses per year, the revised capital expenditure levels have only come about since Dean Finch came on board at NX group & in conjunction with the Centro quality partnerships. Once these 300 enter the fleet, depending on how many of this years outstanding orders are/aren't included in that total.  NX have had 339 new buses delivered to date inc Dundee (up to NXC 2177 & NXWM 4913), with another 300 due by mid 2015, that will be be circa 640 new buses delivered in the 4 year period since 2011 which will see nearly 40% of the NX UK bus fleet replaced which I think is pretty good going......

What I don't understand is why Centro are including NX's already planned fleet replacement in this announcement. Centro have nothing to do with a private bus operator purchasing new vehicles, unless of course they are finding some weird and wonderful way to help fund it which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be!

Andy, as I see it its all a bit interlinked, NXWM don't want Centro to ever consider introducing quality contracts as it could damage NXWM's position/dominance in the West Midlands, so they pushed to go down the Quality Partnership route instead. As as result of that threat & a change in senior management within NX Group, it is due to those reasons that capital investment levels in new buses at NXWM have been raised, the existing fleet is also been re-freshed and they are trying to improve the quality of the service/vehicle presentation offered. This in turn keeps Centro on side, NX UK bus performance should be improved along with passenger growth, ultimately producing more profits for group and shareholders, ultimately everyone should benefit.

Two years from now NXWM will have a very modern fleet with a low average age, the quantities of new buses committed too will see all B6LE, B10L, Mercs 0405N, Spectra been withdrawn. I think the lion's share of the 300 new buses needs to be double deckers, which hopefully should be the case with the 10 gold corridors being implemented

As you know I have been a fierce critic of NX's mismanagement of its fleet so you won't find me grumbling when they finally pull their finger out.

However, what I don't like is the pally nature of this announcement between Centro and NX. Quality Partnerships are great, but the problem with them is that they are increasingly inaccessible to smaller or new operators and you end up with what appears to be Centro money being channelled into a private company's coffers so that it buys new vehicles it should have been buying years ago. This is how the announcement makes things appear. To the casual bus user who knows nothing, they would think that Centro and NX are the same thing if they had watched that report on the BBC.

At least Quality Contracts can go to anybody. Centro have been manipulated in my opinion.

My point is that NX should have been buying ages ago, and now we can see why they didn't bother! Does nothing for competition in the area and as you say, just increases and strengthens NX's dominance and monopoly....and enables them to cream off even more for their shareholders without having to invest independently. Not healthy.


Makes a farse of privatisation (in this industry) and value for the tax payer when you put it like that.