select bus

[Bob]

Or in Banga's case poke a wasp nest on the 891 & Arriva pull out of the original route they were dismally attempting to compete on. Imagine if they tried to hit on key nx corridors with their army of old mpds and cadets? A roaring success for sure....

[Tara4352]

Or in Banga's case poke a wasp nest on the 891 & Arriva pull out of the original route they were dismally attempting to compete on. Imagine if they tried to hit on key nx corridors with their army of old mpds and cadets? A roaring success for sure....

@Bob they'd Probably do on NX222 i would be happy to have some darts on there instead of E200's

[the trainbasher]

@RS @Bob I can name more routes that have gone head to head against NXWM, and failed, than I can care to remember

The outer circle - everyone but diamond has tried it (that route I swear is cursed as everyone who's done it bar Social Travel -touch wood - has ended up closing down due to various reasons)
Arriva on the Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill corridor
Diamond/Central Connect/Birmingham Coach on the 130, 247, 248, Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill, 9, 17, 37, 97)
The 246 (AMPM/GRS)

The nxwm travelcard system is too strong you know. I think the only commercial route that nxwm have withdrawn and is still commercially operated is the 530 (Banga)

[winston]

@barry619 The problem for Arriva is the number of competing operators all jumping on the bandwagon to attack established Arriva routes, they have/will have Banga, Central Buses, GHA, Select, Social Travel all nibbling away at their business, whilst NXWM also appear to be expanding in to traditional Arriva territory with the i54 contracts, schools work & the Amazon contract, it may only be a matter of time before NX try to gain more SCC tenders the could be run from WA or WN garages.

It doesn't appear to be quick fix for Arriva to remove all those operators off competing routes, at present they don't seem to be putting up that much of a fight other than a few antics going on behind the scenes mentioned on here

[Tara4352]

@RS @Bob I can name more routes that have gone head to head against NXWM, and failed, than I can care to remember

The outer circle - everyone but diamond has tried it (that route I swear is cursed as everyone who's done it bar Social Travel -touch wood - has ended up closing down due to various reasons)
Arriva on the Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill corridor
Diamond/Central Connect/Birmingham Coach on the 130, 247, 248, Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill, 9, 17, 37, 97)
The 246 (AMPM/GRS)

The nxwm travelcard system is too strong you know. I think the only commercial route that nxwm have withdrawn and is still commercially operated is the 530 (Banga)

Thanks for the info  ;D

[winston]

@RS @Bob I can name more routes that have gone head to head against NXWM, and failed, than I can care to remember

The outer circle - everyone but diamond has tried it (that route I swear is cursed as everyone who's done it bar Social Travel -touch wood - has ended up closing down due to various reasons)
Arriva on the Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill corridor
Diamond/Central Connect/Birmingham Coach on the 130, 247, 248, Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill, 9, 17, 37, 97)
The 246 (AMPM/GRS)

The nxwm travelcard system is too strong you know. I think the only commercial route that nxwm have withdrawn and is still commercially operated is the 530 (Banga)

Not strictly true, there are certain corridors where other operators are successfully competing on NXWM routes i.e. Diamond on the 301/302

[2206]

Not strictly true, there are certain corridors where other operators are successfully competing on NXWM routes i.e. Diamond on the 301/302

Claribels on the 55 and 94. Acturley I believe DTS and Social are doing quite well on the 11 and 966! @the trainbasher

[barry619]

Barry, I think you missed the point. What I was trying to say obvously if Arriva keep giving competition they need to expect it back? Also if It was the case why won't they go on Natex routes?
Barry, loithan is partly owned by the tax payer
Barry, wardle was fine until Arriva got their hands on it ?
Barry, also poking the wasp nest ? Clearly this is what they are doing to small companies

1. Of course they 'need to expect it back'. However you seem to think that it is not OK for them to fight back.
2. No, Lothian is entirely owned by the taxpayer. It also makes a profit, albeit a small one, and receives no taxpayer subsidy. Hence your original point that the Darts had had work done on the 'courtesy of the taxpayer' is wrong. The work has been done courtesy of Lothian's gross profit. If you are who I think you are, you should understand things like this as it is simple economics of bus operation.
3. Correct, but relevance to my point is what?
4. C'mon, think about it and what 'poking a wasp's nest' means. If Arriva keep annoying an operator with a handful of buses, what exactly is the latter party going to do about it? And which party has the best backing for the inevitable war of attrition?

[barry619]

Barry if you poke a wasp's nest & you get stung. You generally then try to destroy the wasp's nest.

So what you are saying is that if a small operator continually provokes Arriva until is fights back with a vengeance, then the small operator should attempt to destroy Arriva?

If you think that is the best course of action, I have nothing more to say other than if, in due course, you have the chance to put your logic into practice, be sure to let us know what happens.

[barry619]

@barry619 The problem for Arriva is the number of competing operators all jumping on the bandwagon to attack established Arriva routes, they have/will have Banga, Central Buses, GHA, Select, Social Travel all nibbling away at their business, whilst NXWM also appear to be expanding in to traditional Arriva territory with the i54 contracts, schools work & the Amazon contract, it may only be a matter of time before NX try to gain more SCC tenders the could be run from WA or WN garages.

It doesn't appear to be quick fix for Arriva to remove all those operators off competing routes, at present they don't seem to be putting up that much of a fight other than a few antics going on behind the scenes mentioned on here

Quite, and while NXWM is clearly a different kettle of fish if Arriva was stupid enough to take it on in a full-scale 'bus war', it would have little difficulty in wiping out any and all of the smaller firms in short order if it really wanted to. The fact that it doesn't seem bothered suggests that the routes involved may in some cases be nothing worth fighting over, or that it is losing interest in the WM operation. Certainly the Wardle experiment backfired spectacularly.

As for GHA - there are two schools of thought about GHA's long-term future, but it is hardly having a serious pop at Arriva on high-volume commercial corridors. If GHA was to take the Shrewsbury P&R contract, which if it is based on price alone they it do, it may provoke a more robust response from Arriva.

[winston]

Quite, and while NXWM is clearly a different kettle of fish if Arriva was stupid enough to take it on in a full-scale 'bus war', it would have little difficulty in wiping out any and all of the smaller firms in short order if it really wanted to. The fact that it doesn't seem bothered suggests that the routes involved may in some cases be nothing worth fighting over, or that it is losing interest in the WM operation. Certainly the Wardle experiment backfired spectacularly.

As for GHA - there are two schools of thought about GHA's long-term future, but it is hardly having a serious pop at Arriva on high-volume commercial corridors. If GHA was to take the Shrewsbury P&R contract, which if it is based on price alone they it do, it may provoke a more robust response from Arriva.

The fact that Arriva doesn't appear bothered by the arrival of more new competition is in my opinion only inviting more operators to join the party.

As regards GHA not yet, I suspect they will go after the Shrewsbury Park & Ride contract & commercial services against Arriva may well follow in the future

[Kevin]

Arriva on the Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill corridor
Diamond/Central Connect/Birmingham Coach on the 130, 247, 248, Dudley to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill, 9, 17, 37, 97)
The 246 (AMPM/GRS)

Can you really say Arriva gave it their all with the 310 though? With so many different operators around the black country there's a lot of people with multi op tickets like swift, just don't think Arriva gave it enough time to grow

The nxwm travelcard system is too strong you know. I think the only commercial route that nxwm have withdrawn and is still commercially operated is the 530 (Banga)

Personally I would say very strong, not TOO strong. Seeing more and more people using Swift cards these days, and healthy loads on Diamond 16 and Claribels buses.
Also, just to point out, NX used to run the 156 back in WMT days, very much now a Diamond route

[Tony]

Can you really say Arriva gave it their all with the 310 though? With so many different operators around the black country there's a lot of people with multi op tickets like swift, just don't think Arriva gave it enough time to grow

Personally I would say very strong, not TOO strong. Seeing more and more people using Swift cards these days, and healthy loads on Diamond 16 and Claribels buses.
Also, just to point out, NX used to run the 156 back in WMT days, very much now a Diamond route

The 156 has always been 'another operator's' route, never WMT (except boxing day!) although when it was Midland Red North it was hourly with the TWM 995 also hourly on the opposite half hour

[SBS]

Barry, with the upmost respect I still think you are missing the point, and I have not certainly said on here I don't expect Arriva to retaliate to these small independent company's I am merely saying that Arriva need to expect a reaction from small companies if they do things across them which is clearly happening.

Also I think you are taking comments too seriously this is an Internet forum not a formal meeting ?! and to be honest I think most people have got better things too do. But as for the loithan comments this is what I refer this too was an off hand remark which has sparked you off. I was having a conversation with winston.I only add the odd comments where I will state the facts about sbs which normally get interpreted wrong.

[Bob]

156??