Why don't NXC extend the 20 to Nuneaton ?

[JoNi]

Bearing in mind Stagecoach's incursions by running more frequent headways in Coventry an extension of the 20 to Nuneaton could easily have been achieved.

The 12 was only extended to Leamington Spa to help Stagecoach out at the time. NX completely failed to develop the service hence Stagecoach hit back with the U1 once it had sufficient resources and have made an excellent job of it. NXC has cxheaper fares but they don't advertise them.

Dynamism has never been one of NXs strengths. You only have to read the article in this months Buses mag. about the fall of Northampton Transport to realise this culture is what happens when old style"Corporation" bus operating cultures are allowed to persist.

Nottingham, Reading, Swindon, Lothian, Warrington and even Cardiff despite it's recent problems show what can be achieved in the modern world.

[winston]

Bearing in mind Stagecoach's incursions by running more frequent headways in Coventry an extension of the 20 to Nuneaton could easily have been achieved.

They could extend the 20 in to Stagecoach territory but it could provoke a reaction, so is it really worth it?

[Tony]

Bearing in mind Stagecoach's incursions by running more frequent headways in Coventry an extension of the 20 to Nuneaton could easily have been achieved.

The 12 was only extended to Leamington Spa to help Stagecoach out at the time. NX completely failed to develop the service hence Stagecoach hit back with the U1 once it had sufficient resources and have made an excellent job of it. NXC has cxheaper fares but they don't advertise them.

That is rubbish because it was extended before stagecoach even owned MRS. The University of Warwick has three main places for housing its student. Freshers (first years) are normally put in flats on campus. Other Students have traditionally been placed in Earlsdon and Leamington Spa. The Earlsdon students used the West Midlands 12 service (Coventry-University) and the Leamington students used a service provided by G&G, an independant in Leamington using a fleet of MCW Metropolitans.

The service provided by G&G was awful and eventually they sold out to Midland Red South (Still not owned by Stagecoach). The University were still not happy with the service provided by MRS and asked West Midlands Travel to run buses to Leamington as well as Coventry. To try and get their students onto the WMT service the University refused MRS permission to sell passes on campus for one term and actively promoted the WMT passes to all students. WMT actually matched the frequency of MRS for the first year with alternate buses using the Kenilworth by-pass as a 12A.

This didn't have the desired effect of finishing the MRS service off because third year students were used to using MRS they still bought MRS passes from their shop in Leamington. MRS soon renegotiated selling passes on campus and when Stagecoach purchased MRS the service became a lot more reliable and most Leamington based students are now buying Stagecoach passes again and the TWM/NXC service has gradually wound back to what it is today

I was selling passes at UoW during these wars and remember trying to persuade all these students TWM passes were much better value as they could be used on frequent service both ways which is still why some students in Leamington still buy NXC passes despite the less frequent service to Stagecoach

[JoNi]

Point taken about G&G, mind you I remember the superb ex Merseyside Willowbrook bodied Atlanteans that started life at Green Lane garage in Liverpool that replaced the Metropolitans.

TWM Drivers who worked on the 12 at the time tell me that TWM passes were sold by agents in Leamington and Kenilworth which they no longer do. They also charged cheaper fares from Sydenham to Leamington attracting local travellers. This extension has since been withdrawn. Daysavers were also made available for travel to Leamington Spa.
Stagecoach tickets however were more attractive as they allowed travel in Warwick and Leamington as well.   

You only have to look at the eyecatching current Stagecoach timetable for the U routes which is an excellent example of marketing a bus route. It has an excellent map, timetables well laid out with dates of operation and prices of period tickets available on buses.   
The NXC timetable is just another Centro timetable with a map that stops at the county boundary. The timetables are poorly laid out with no dates of operation (shown in seperate leaflet). There is no information on fares and you can't obtain them on buses.

As an outsider I appreciate personal efforts by front line staff can be undermined if as in the case of NX a culture does not exist to market bus services effectively when the going gets tough.

[Justin Tyme]

Thanks Tony for the comprehensive reasons why WMT got to Leamington - it's always fascinating and useful to know why things happen.

It's perhaps surprising that NXC still run to Leamington with frequent Stagecoach services all around, even though it has a part of Kenilworth all to itself.  Presumably there is enough trade to make it worthwhile.

[JoNi]

On Saturdays Stagecoach operate a U2 via Kenilworth and the U17 operates via Kenilworth on Sundays.
NXC do however operate an hourly evening service  all year round on their route 11.

[Tony]

Point taken about G&G, mind you I remember the superb ex Merseyside Willowbrook bodied Atlanteans that started life at Green Lane garage in Liverpool that replaced the Metropolitans.

TWM Drivers who worked on the 12 at the time tell me that TWM passes were sold by agents in Leamington and Kenilworth which they no longer do. They also charged cheaper fares from Sydenham to Leamington attracting local travellers. This extension has since been withdrawn. Daysavers were also made available for travel to Leamington Spa.
Stagecoach tickets however were more attractive as they allowed travel in Warwick and Leamington as well.   

You only have to look at the eyecatching current Stagecoach timetable for the U routes which is an excellent example of marketing a bus route. It has an excellent map, timetables well laid out with dates of operation and prices of period tickets available on buses.   
The NXC timetable is just another Centro timetable with a map that stops at the county boundary. The timetables are poorly laid out with no dates of operation (shown in seperate leaflet). There is no information on fares and you can't obtain them on buses.

As an outsider I appreciate personal efforts by front line staff can be undermined if as in the case of NX a culture does not exist to market bus services effectively when the going gets tough.

Don't forget the three ex WMPTE fleetlines as well as the Atlanteans that actually lasted right through into Stagecoach ownership.

Yes there were agents in Leamington Spa and Kenilworth. The one in Kenilworth sold very little, it was a newsagent just off the main street. The one in Leamington Spa was Candies in the shopping mall at the bottom of The Parade which is now a furniture shop and did actually sell a decent number of Travelcards

[JPC]

WMT's original extension to Leamington, service 12A is on the Nov 1993 Cov Centro Map and ran via Kenilworth.

Service 112 was created in bus review of June 1994 I think, then the launch of the Kenilworth By Pass journeys came after that maybe 1995.  Four per hour though the daytime between Uni and Leam, service 12A and 22A then being the by pass journeys, with the 12, 22 and 112 running via Kenilworth (Five variants indeed).
Most of the By Pass journeys were axed in Feb 1996 but an odd few peak times trips were retained and lasted quite a few years until about 2002.

[Daniel541]

Over the years there have been several variants on service 12 making up the frequency:

12 Coventry - Leamington Spa via Herald Avenue, University of Warwick & Kenilworth
12A Coventry - Leamington Spa via Herald Avenue, University of Warwick & A46 (express to Leamington)
12E Earlsdon - University of Warwick (peak period extras)
12W Coventry - Westwood Business Park via Herald Avenue & University of Warwick
112 Coventry - Leamington Spa via Kenilworth Road, University of Warwick & Kenilworth (express to Coventry)

In the mid 2000s the 12A and 112 were changed into ordinary 12s, and then in April 2006 the 12E and 12W were renumbered 12 highlighting the frequency of the route

[Kevin]

Thanks Tony for the comprehensive reasons why WMT got to Leamington - it's always fascinating and useful to know why things happen.

It's perhaps surprising that NXC still run to Leamington with frequent Stagecoach services all around, even though it has a part of Kenilworth all to itself.  Presumably there is enough trade to make it worthwhile.

Sticking me neck out a bit on this one, but could it be becasue NXC run Cov - Earlsdon - Uni - Leamington, whereas Stagecoach do Leam - Uni only?

[JoNi]

Stagecoach also run the 16 from Coventry via Warwick Uni to Kenilworth/Warwick/Stratford which they quietly run every hour still using Stratford's Olympians with Tridents, Darts and Optare Solos also appearing. Sadly 2012 marked the end of B10Ms with 20225 being a regular performer to the end.   

[Valandil]

Nottingham, Reading, Swindon, Lothian, Warrington and even Cardiff despite it's recent problems show what can be achieved in the modern world.

As a proud Warringtonian, I can say that they have the attitude absolutely spot on.
They have a great fleet and the majority of locals are loyal to the company, not travelling on the other services provided by Arriva, First and small independents where possible.
I know that managing a city's bus system is always going to be more complicated than that of a large town, but at least from a passenger's point of view Warrington is far, far better than NXC.
And they are more profitable too! -- and they achieve that without having to ram people into overcrowded buses like cattle or make fanciful timetables to 'increase efficiency' but actually just make everything operate late.

It's perhaps surprising that NXC still run to Leamington with frequent Stagecoach services all around, even though it has a part of Kenilworth all to itself.  Presumably there is enough trade to make it worthwhile.

Much of it is the leg university to Kenilworth.
The 11 between uni and Leamington is often slightly quieter than the U1 so means that you can perhaps get a seat.
In the morning, the U12 goes through Kenilworth anyway, so the 11 is a pretty comparable option.
Some people travel Earlsdon to Leamington, but I think that they would be content with switching buses at the university or at Coventry if they had to.

Stagecoach also run the 16 from Coventry via Warwick Uni to Kenilworth/Warwick/Stratford which they quietly run every hour still using Stratford's Olympians with Tridents, Darts and Optare Solos also appearing. Sadly 2012 marked the end of B10Ms with 20225 being a regular performer to the end.

Most uni students don't seem to notice the 16, and mentally exclude it as a viable option since it's only every hour and has no night service.
I would definitely use it if one went from War Memorial Park at 8:56, arr. university 9:02, but that pattern only begins at 9:56 and 10:02, so have to go for the horrendously unreliable 18a instead, or the W1c which doesn't get to campus in time for 9am.