Yourbus

[bwsau cymru]

It makes you wonder if someone else is backing the Yourbus operation financially? It does seem to be expanding pretty rapidly & mostly with brand new vehicles

Very true!!! Citaro's don't come cheap!!!

[Diamond Geezer]

It makes you wonder if someone else is backing the Yourbus operation financially? It does seem to be expanding pretty rapidly & mostly with brand new vehicles

Very true!!! Citaro's don't come cheap!!!

yourbus is a private company backed by no-one.

[tom_h]

If you think logically it is likely that the vehicles are leased. The Streetlites appear to be at least, coming from Mistral (I know Mistral sell the Streetlite too).

[winston]

Even so, if the brand new Citaro's are only leased for the new Citylink route in direct competition with Trent's Red Arrow, they still need to be earning a fair amount of venue from day one just to cover the leasing costs, let alone all the other associated costs & Yourbus have gone straight in with a 10 min frequency

[tom_h]

It's still a damn sight cheaper than purchasing them outright. I don't know how much they're making but I assume they feel they will be able to at least cover the costs otherwise they wouldn't take such a risk.

[Steveminor]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

[winston]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

Steve,

Was TWM Delta Dart operation much of a threat to Trent? as the operation grew quickly but also ceased just as quick. I assume TWM were setting its sights on acquiring Trent?

[andy]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

Steve,

Was TWM Delta Dart operation much of a threat to Trent? as the operation grew quickly but also ceased just as quick. I assume TWM were setting its sights on acquiring Trent?

Correct Winston. In those days the single most popular tactic for an operator trying to acquire another was to set up a budget operation on its doorstep, Trent was one of the few NBC subsidiaries to have been successfully acquired by management but these companies soon became attractive propositions to the 'groups' who clearly had more financial might.  This is exactly what Cowie Group did in Derby with the Midland Red North minibus operation targeted at Derby City Transport.

These moves were often impulsive and short lived like the TWM one, although the DCT assault was eventually successful after a very shortlived battle between the two.

Few operators would bother going to the expense of setting up in this way these days.

[winston]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

Steve,

Was TWM Delta Dart operation much of a threat to Trent? as the operation grew quickly but also ceased just as quick. I assume TWM were setting its sights on acquiring Trent?

Correct Winston. In those days the single most popular tactic for an operator trying to acquire another was to set up a budget operation on its doorstep, Trent was one of the few NBC subsidiaries to have been successfully acquired by management but these companies soon became attractive propositions to the 'groups' who clearly had more financial might.  This is exactly what Cowie Group did in Derby with the Midland Red North minibus operation targeted at Derby City Transport.

These moves were often impulsive and short lived like the TWM one, although the DCT assault was eventually successful after a very shortlived battle between the two.

Few operators would bother going to the expense of setting up in this way these days.

Thanks Andy,

What was DCT?

Thinking about it, the Delta Dart operation was in the WMT era, wasn't around the time that WMT were expanding via acquisition prior to listing on the London Stock Exchange pre NX. I.e. around the time they bought County Bus & Coach, Westlink & North East Bus, I believe they were also interested in acquiring GM buses North & a London LBL subsidiary, but the takeover prices put them off.

I still reckon Wellglade & EYMS will get taken over at some point in the not too distant future, either by a UK group or the likes of RAPT which appear to be keen to expand in the UK.

Yourbus, are competing on select routes from both Trent & Nottingham City Transport

[Cedric]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

Steve,

Was TWM Delta Dart operation much of a threat to Trent? as the operation grew quickly but also ceased just as quick. I assume TWM were setting its sights on acquiring Trent?

Correct Winston. In those days the single most popular tactic for an operator trying to acquire another was to set up a budget operation on its doorstep, Trent was one of the few NBC subsidiaries to have been successfully acquired by management but these companies soon became attractive propositions to the 'groups' who clearly had more financial might.  This is exactly what Cowie Group did in Derby with the Midland Red North minibus operation targeted at Derby City Transport.

These moves were often impulsive and short lived like the TWM one, although the DCT assault was eventually successful after a very shortlived battle between the two.

Few operators would bother going to the expense of setting up in this way these days.

Thanks Andy,

What was DCT?

Thinking about it, the Delta Dart operation was in the WMT era, wasn't around the time that WMT were expanding via acquisition prior to listing on the London Stock Exchange pre NX. I.e. around the time they bought County Bus & Coach, Westlink & North East Bus, I believe they were also interested in acquiring GM buses North & a London LBL subsidiary, but the takeover prices put them off.

I still reckon Wellglade & EYMS will get taken over at some point in the not too distant future, either by a UK group or the likes of RAPT which appear to be keen to expand in the UK.

Yourbus, are competing on select routes from both Trent & Nottingham City Transport

eyms would be a good on for the rotola group    if the set the Yorkshire and Manchester parts up as separate ops and whittle  put in with diamond

[winston]

I for one hope they succeed against Trent Barton, I think this is Trents biggest threat since TWM's Delta Dart operation closed.

Steve,

Was TWM Delta Dart operation much of a threat to Trent? as the operation grew quickly but also ceased just as quick. I assume TWM were setting its sights on acquiring Trent?

Correct Winston. In those days the single most popular tactic for an operator trying to acquire another was to set up a budget operation on its doorstep, Trent was one of the few NBC subsidiaries to have been successfully acquired by management but these companies soon became attractive propositions to the 'groups' who clearly had more financial might.  This is exactly what Cowie Group did in Derby with the Midland Red North minibus operation targeted at Derby City Transport.

These moves were often impulsive and short lived like the TWM one, although the DCT assault was eventually successful after a very shortlived battle between the two.

Few operators would bother going to the expense of setting up in this way these days.

Thanks Andy,

What was DCT?

Thinking about it, the Delta Dart operation was in the WMT era, wasn't around the time that WMT were expanding via acquisition prior to listing on the London Stock Exchange pre NX. I.e. around the time they bought County Bus & Coach, Westlink & North East Bus, I believe they were also interested in acquiring GM buses North & a London LBL subsidiary, but the takeover prices put them off.

I still reckon Wellglade & EYMS will get taken over at some point in the not too distant future, either by a UK group or the likes of RAPT which appear to be keen to expand in the UK.

Yourbus, are competing on select routes from both Trent & Nottingham City Transport

eyms would be a good on for the rotola group    if the set the Yorkshire and Manchester parts up as separate ops and whittle  put in with diamond

Its unlikely Rotala would be able to raise the funds to buy EYMS group, they are similar size operations. There is nothing stopping them joining forces through a friendly merger, but not by Rotala taking them over.

[Steveminor]

I believe the Delta Dart operation came to an end abruptly as TWM under estimated Welglade's resources & were not expecting Wellglade to threaten a counter attack (once they discovered who was really behind the Delta "attack"

Regarding Rotala acquiring EYMS, I can't quite see that happening in fact if EYMS play their cards right they could possibly use Whittle to push Diamond out of Kiddie.
The problem Rotala have is that everyone that was good at their job & actually gave a damn is now working @ Yourbus & rapidly growing that operation.
What Rotala needs is a good commercial manager who understands how to expand a commercial operation & that sometimes you need loss leaders to grow a network & gain brand presence & awareness, something which Diamond has been losing in the West Midlands lately

[winston]

I believe the Delta Dart operation came to an end abruptly as TWM under estimated Welglade's resources & were not expecting Wellglade to threaten a counter attack (once they discovered who was really behind the Delta "attack"

Regarding Rotala acquiring EYMS, I can't quite see that happening in fact if EYMS play their cards right they could possibly use Whittle to push Diamond out of Kiddie.
The problem Rotala have is that everyone that was good at their job & actually gave a damn is now working @ Yourbus & rapidly growing that operation.
What Rotala needs is a good commercial manager who understands how to expand a commercial operation & that sometimes you need loss leaders to grow a network & gain brand presence & awareness, something which Diamond has been losing in the West Midlands lately

Thanks Steve, even so re: Wellglade threatening a counter attack on TWM, you wouldn't normally expect TWM to go running scared as they had a massive reserve fleet back then & would of also had significantly more financial firepower at their disposal over Wellglade. I'm impressed with what Scott Dunn & the former Diamond Bus team are doing with Yourbus, its rapidly growing quality operation. Not seen any reports as yet how the Yourbus Citylink service is doing against Trent's established Red Arrow service

I totally agree with your comments re Diamond, the Diamond business could once again be a significant player in offering an alternative commercial network, but it needs the right people running the business, significant investment and needs to be prepared to take a few risks with trying new routes. They need to speculate to accumulate, if they don't up their game soon Arriva could become a potential threat to their remaining tendered / commercial services

[Steveminor]

Re: Wellglade v TWM, I think that having Smiths "Your Bus" Bham Coach, Serverse Travel, the upcoming Petes Travel plus a whole host of others to compete with, the last thing TWM needed was a much larger wealthier Group moving in. That's why they tried as much as they could to hide the ownership of Delta Dart. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was actually Delta Taxis Ltd a former Taxi business that TWM acquired.
As far as Diamond are concerned , if they carry on this way it's not just Arriva that could knock them out. Arriva probably would just target the tendered work, but a whole list of others could start to challenge them. Grs on the 16 & the 600 (till he realised it was a useless route & pulled off, Greenbus on the 50, can't see them going anywhere, Sandwell Travel "alledgaly" on the 56. Looking back Joes Travel pushed them off the 79 & Sunny Travel pushed them off the 120.
Dark days for what should be a strong operation.

[winston]

Re: Wellglade v TWM, I think that having Smiths "Your Bus" Bham Coach, Serverse Travel, the upcoming Petes Travel plus a whole host of others to compete with, the last thing TWM needed was a much larger wealthier Group moving in. That's why they tried as much as they could to hide the ownership of Delta Dart. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was actually Delta Taxis Ltd a former Taxi business that TWM acquired.
As far as Diamond are concerned , if they carry on this way it's not just Arriva that could knock them out. Arriva probably would just target the tendered work, but a whole list of others could start to challenge them. Grs on the 16 & the 600 (till he realised it was a useless route & pulled off, Greenbus on the 50, can't see them going anywhere, Sandwell Travel "alledgaly" on the 56. Looking back Joes Travel pushed them off the 79 & Sunny Travel pushed them off the 120.
Dark days for what should be a strong operation.

Thanks Steve, no doubt had anything kicked off with Wellglade back then, Wellglade would have simply acquired one of the sizeable WM independents at the time, had Tames Valley been acquired by WMT back then? I think it was Delta Taxi, may be WMT shouldn't have sent DAF engined Nationals & Iveco/Doges minibuses from its reserve fleet to operate for Delta even though WMT were renting buses out to other operators at the time, it may have been less conspicuous if Delta acquired its own fleet from alternative sources

The Routeone article suggests Greenbus are considering upping the frequency of their 50, so that will no doubt put further pressure on the Diamond 50.