Diamond Bus - Discussion

[Cedric]

I've noticed 20851 has gone to Kidderminster as it was on the 3 today and back with black diamond the 4/4H/4M had two solo's on it. Hope the 4 is not going to revert back to having solo's on it on a regular basis.

seen 20853  on the 3 this afternoon

[Ash]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

[Sh4318]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

I think Diamond's 4 needs a dedicated bus type, instead of a mix of cadets, darts and whatever else they put on it. Centros would be good on the 4

[JackC]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

I think Diamond's 4 needs a dedicated bus type, instead of a mix of cadets, darts and whatever else they put on it. Centros would be good on the 4

Get the Versas back from Long Acre and brand them up for the 4 maybe? Or use Centros instead. Some branding might help their cause a little bit. Especially if they advertise Day Returns.

[Ash]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

I think Diamond's 4 needs a dedicated bus type, instead of a mix of cadets, darts and whatever else they put on it. Centros would be good on the 4

Get the Versas back from Long Acre and brand them up for the 4 maybe? Or use Centros instead. Some branding might help their cause a little bit. Especially if they advertise Day Returns.

The way they are going it wouldn't surprise me if they withdraw off the 4 altogether. For me it's nothing to do with NXWM and the competition they provide as it has always been there it's down to timetable changes and the quality of buses there using. Some of the darts are in a terrible state mix match seats, generally dirty inside and the exterior paintwork looking shabby. They are withdrawing off the evening/sunday 4/4M services just a few months after the changes but before the changes they operated evenings and sunday from late 2010 and all of a sudden it's not financially viable. Ok the evenings struggle but they have wrecked the sunday service bring the 4 back just between Walsall and West Bromwich every 15 minutes all thats needed is 4 buses and I'm sure it would work. Advertise returns and the cadets as there generally used on the 4 and 301 so wouldn't have the wrong return branding on them. Investment is desperately needed sticking the odd centro on will not make any difference it's a shame but it just seems a downwards spiral. I think if diamond every did come off the 4 would be a great opportunity for someone to set up on the service even now i still think there is an opportunity of someone to jut run a Sunday service between Walsall and West Bromwich maybe arriva.

[tank90]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

I think Diamond's 4 needs a dedicated bus type, instead of a mix of cadets, darts and whatever else they put on it. Centros would be good on the 4

Get the Versas back from Long Acre and brand them up for the 4 maybe? Or use Centros instead. Some branding might help their cause a little bit. Especially if they advertise Day Returns.

The way they are going it wouldn't surprise me if they withdraw off the 4 altogether. For me it's nothing to do with NXWM and the competition they provide as it has always been there it's down to timetable changes and the quality of buses there using. Some of the darts are in a terrible state mix match seats, generally dirty inside and the exterior paintwork looking shabby. They are withdrawing off the evening/sunday 4/4M services just a few months after the changes but before the changes they operated evenings and sunday from late 2010 and all of a sudden it's not financially viable. Ok the evenings struggle but they have wrecked the sunday service bring the 4 back just between Walsall and West Bromwich every 15 minutes all thats needed is 4 buses and I'm sure it would work. Advertise returns and the cadets as there generally used on the 4 and 301 so wouldn't have the wrong return branding on them. Investment is desperately needed sticking the odd centro on will not make any difference it's a shame but it just seems a downwards spiral. I think if diamond every did come off the 4 would be a great opportunity for someone to set up on the service even now i still think there is an opportunity of someone to jut run a Sunday service between Walsall and West Bromwich maybe arriva.

Wouldn't Arriva have similar problems to Diamond tho?
I think you are right tho Rotala need to invest in Tividale for some if not all there routes and them look at Redditch.

[Ash]

On a sunday when diamond used to operate the 404E every 15 minutes it always seemed popular and well used it lasted for from 2010 until the changes when they now run around 10 minutes behind NXWM all the way to Merry Hill it was obvious that this was going to fail, although on some occasions when the NXWM 4M 10 minutes in front has been late and the diamond have over taken it people catch the diamond 4M and the bus gets well used so it shows to me that the timetable needed changing or just revert back to the 4 every 15 minutes on a Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised if another tries to run some sunday services on the 4 so just suggested Arriva as an example. It's the West Bromwich to Merry Hill section that doesn't seem well used not the Walsall to West Bromwich section. Surely rotala must have compared passenger numbers of when they operated the 404E on a sunday to the current 4M on a sunday and i'm sure they would notice a huge difference.

[tank90]

Oh I had gathered you were using Arriva as an example, but your last point, you'd think they would wouldnt you but with what has happened since January I think they have taken there eyes off the ball big time and I wouldnt like to say it but I think it will hit them hard.

[Bob]

Arriva would just use knackered Darts on it

[j789]

Why would Arriva go on the 4? If Diamond, who have been on it years in various guises, cannot make it work anymore why would Arriva try, and ultimately risk retaliation on their own current routes eg 110, 112 + Walsall to Cannock which are obvious money earners for them. The fact NXWM operate on it so regularly makes it a virtual non starter for any new company.

[Ash]

Arriva would just use knackered Darts on it

Nothing new then just like for like

Why would Arriva go on the 4? If Diamond, who have been on it years in various guises, cannot make it work anymore why would Arriva try, and ultimately risk retaliation on their own current routes eg 110, 112 + Walsall to Cannock which are obvious money earners for them. The fact NXWM operate on it so regularly makes it a virtual non starter for any new company.

Sorry I probably am confusing people I meant on a sunday only although passenger numbers don't seem that high like they used to be Monday to Saturday. It could be any company just used Arriva as an example.

[jc]

V544ESC has joined the others at Redditch ... I assume 540 is to follow?

[bwsau cymru]

I really don't think people understand Arriva's might!!! with the backing of DB the sky is the limit. as soon as Arriva opened in west Bromwich I said that would be the start of the end to diamond. I personally don't think Arriva are going to compete that much with nx I think its going to be diamond. Arriva take second place in the west mids market then work on 1st place. since db have taken over Arriva has undergone such dramtic changes. I have used buses since I was 11 we have petes travel and arriva on the same route, and I have grown up with them so I know how bad they have been. However as I said major changes have happened. look firstly at arriva trains wales.....they went from a 60% odd realiability on the Cambrian route to now is brilliant. Arriva trains wales was dreadful I know because I worked there!! then you have the new buses that are coming in.....ok optare may be heavly hated by drivers and enthuistasts but to the punter its a smart looking bus, they are warm and comfortable, they are also cheap so customers can benefit from having more newer buses are arriva will get more bus for there money. then the recent delivery of citaro's wow!!! I personally think citaros are they best bus out there and they also have a big merc badge screaming at the passenger!!

So yes I could see Arriva starting on the 4, because at the moment arriva is a baby in the west midlands, and its ready to grow, and when they start I honestly believe every operator should watch out because they have the money to do anything!!!

[bwsau cymru]

Today this I witnessed concessionary pass users deciding not to go on a 4 diamond to West Bromwich and chose the 4 NXWM not because they wanted Blackheath as they both got off at West Bromwich and the diamond was in front it was more so that it was a tatty red and white diamond darts and the NXWM bus was a well presented omnilink. No wonder the 4 is struggling and withdrawing off on sundays and evenings with the state of some of their buses, Presentation is awful and still think the bus wash has broken as the buses are filthy on the outside.

I think Diamond's 4 needs a dedicated bus type, instead of a mix of cadets, darts and whatever else they put on it. Centros would be good on the 4

Get the Versas back from Long Acre and brand them up for the 4 maybe? Or use Centros instead. Some branding might help their cause a little bit. Especially if they advertise Day Returns.

its a really shame I think Scott Dunn left Rotala hes won awards for his marketing!! obviously something is now missing diamond really upt there game with all of there branding:
nifty50
black country connection
Stourbridge shuttle
yew tree connection
16
002

there buses instantly stud out to the punter you instantly knew where the bus went you knew how often they was and you knew how much for a return....now whats left...... whilst at yourbus its all there and even marketing events at univericties to attract new customers where has this gone?
its all well and good "improving the images of drivers"but if you have no customers left there is no need for drivers.

I really must stress I am completely gutted I am a massive rotala fan and a big support I really want them to work and work well!!!

[Ash]

I really don't think people understand Arriva's might!!! with the backing of DB the sky is the limit. as soon as Arriva opened in west Bromwich I said that would be the start of the end to diamond. I personally don't think Arriva are going to compete that much with nx I think its going to be diamond. Arriva take second place in the west mids market then work on 1st place. since db have taken over Arriva has undergone such dramtic changes. I have used buses since I was 11 we have petes travel and arriva on the same route, and I have grown up with them so I know how bad they have been. However as I said major changes have happened. look firstly at arriva trains wales.....they went from a 60% odd realiability on the Cambrian route to now is brilliant. Arriva trains wales was dreadful I know because I worked there!! then you have the new buses that are coming in.....ok optare may be heavly hated by drivers and enthuistasts but to the punter its a smart looking bus, they are warm and comfortable, they are also cheap so customers can benefit from having more newer buses are arriva will get more bus for there money. then the recent delivery of citaro's wow!!! I personally think citaros are they best bus out there and they also have a big merc badge screaming at the passenger!!

So yes I could see Arriva starting on the 4, because at the moment arriva is a baby in the west midlands, and its ready to grow, and when they start I honestly believe every operator should watch out because they have the money to do anything!!!

This is my view and may be totally wrong but I feel may be with diamond and especially the 4 service they take for granted the passengers they have on the service thinking because they have operated on it for so long the passengers will always be there and so feel there's not a problem to put the old red and white darts that are 15+ years old on it with tatty exteriors and interiors in my view you look after the services that are bringing in the high passenger numbers and high revenue and not take for granted what they built up from previous operators on the service, NXWM in my view have not turned up the pressure on diamond's 4 as they have no need to there doing the damage to thereselves the black country connection branding and mcv's were smart and showed great presence on the service even though they weren't the best buses.

This just sums it up

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/7322754080/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/7315717196/in/photostream/

Taken in 2002 an an X reg dart and 51 reg president era 2000-8

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/8424428236/

Around 2010 era 2008-2010, big investment smart black diamond centro's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/8424894570/in/photostream/

Around late 2010 era 2010-early 2012, very smart trent barton looking black country connect brand

http://wmbusphotos.com/diamondpages/20912.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photography_by_tom/5941251740/

At present, a solo which has smaller capacity to the buses used in 2002 and a dart which is older than the buses introduced by petes travel in 2000 shown in the 2002 images. Era 2013-Present day

The 404E (now the 4) was a showcase service for Pete's Travel talking buses etc and was for diamond and rotala in 2008 and the re-investment in 2010 with evening and sunday services that worked now in 2013 old worn out darts and a sunday and evening service that is being withdrawn it's going backwards such a shame