TfL to take over suburban rail routes in London

[JoNi]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35372617

[PM]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35372617

Worrying...

[Bob]

Why? It'll be publicly owned and run and integrated rather than fragmented

[winston]

Why? It'll be publicly owned and run and integrated rather than fragmented

Why? Look at how much subsidy Tfl already need to be able to run what they currently do, they may provide a good level of service but it comes at a cost, a cost which would only increase as additional transport modes are taken under its wing

[Tony]

Why? Look at how much subsidy Tfl already need to be able to run what they currently do, they may provide a good level of service but it comes at a cost, a cost which would only increase as additional transport modes are taken under its wing

Perhaps thpse who think 'Public always better' might like to read page 82 of the latest 'Buses' magazine, about the farce at SPT where they spent £1.37m on 20 new minibuses and these £70,000  vehicles are now being sold off for less than £6,000 with less than 50,000 miles on the clock, about what an NX bus does in 3 months!

[winston]

Perhaps thpse who think 'Public always better' might like to read page 82 of the latest 'Buses' magazine, about the farce at SPT where they spent £1.37m on 20 new minibuses and these £70,000  vehicles are now being sold off for less than £6,000 with less than 50,000 miles on the clock, about what an NX bus does in 3 months!

Exactly, yet another good example.

The only recent example I can think of where something did better in public ownership compared with private ownership was the ECML, but if public ownership is that good, why have they since returned that franchise to the private sector!

[tank90]

Exactly, yet another good example.

The only recent example I can think of where something did better in public ownership compared with private ownership was the ECML, but if public ownership is that good, why have they since returned that franchise to the private sector!

Politics in a word. East Coast was doing very well as it was, its slipped a little but not as bad as it has been. But the DfT should have been able to bid for the franchise as well, but would still have lost due to not being able to fleece the tax payer (in which i include the rail user) twice. Once with fares and second the silly amounts of money Stagecoach Virgin First and the others pay for a franchise.

[Bob]

Exactly, yet another good example.

The only recent example I can think of where something did better in public ownership compared with private ownership was the ECML, but if public ownership is that good, why have they since returned that franchise to the private sector!

Because we have a Scum Tory government and it was ideological. ...and they slipped it in quietly just before the election and rushed it through. ...

[winston]

Because we have a Scum Tory government and it was ideological. ...and they slipped it in quietly just before the election and rushed it through. ...

Much better than the Labour Government that got the country in to the debt / mess it's currently in

[Bob]

I think you'll find there was a global financial crisis. ...? Moreover the coalition followed by the scum govt has created more debt than any postwar labour govt combined and has missed all of its Fiscal targets. .."I will clear the deficit by 2015..."..Yea right George. .

[Bob]

What I am surprised at is that this TFL thing is happening under a Tory scum govt....I'm amazed there aren't screams of Communism from tory mps. ..has Boris suddenly had one to many and turned Socialist?  I mean even even the Tory MP for South Staffordshire is calling for the toll road to be nationalised. ...what next?

[Stuharris 6360]

What I am surprised at is that this TFL thing is happening under a Tory scum govt....I'm amazed there aren't screams of Communism from tory mps. ..has Boris suddenly had one to many and turned Socialist?  I mean even even the Tory MP for South Staffordshire is calling for the toll road to be nationalised. ...what next?

Boris isn't bothered anymore,he is only Mayor till May, he has got his eyes set on bigger things. 

[PM]

Exactly, yet another good example.

The only recent example I can think of where something did better in public ownership compared with private ownership was the ECML, but if public ownership is that good, why have they since returned that franchise to the private sector!

Good example Tony's picked but as Winston says, there are loads of them. Worcestershire County Council, Woosh and the P and R fiasco is another you could add, Transport for Edinburgh's "free umbrellas" they wasted a fortune on as well for the botched relaunch, leading, amongst other things, to a management crisis?!

Having used the ECML when public and privately owned, I fail to see how it was any better under public ownership, far from it, a lot of the livery, branding, marketing lacked spark and imagination. Got to say that Virgin trains tend to be pretty amazing on that side of things.

I'm not saying Private sector is all good and public sector all bad, I'd argue Cross Country is far from good and say Nottingham City Transport are amazing. It's about an approach that fits the circumstances.

Talking of which, TfL are having to make huge efficiency savings (potentially to achieve efficiencies the private sector already has made?) and at the same time they're set on a power grabbing exercise to control these trains as well and increasing capacity etc is just a con to those that are clever enough to read between the lines, can TfL speed up and bring forward train delivery dates? No! Can TfL magic into existence extra space across the network for more trains? No! So all the current problems will continue, which is basically commuting into the SE is becoming ever more popular, no amount of politics can solve that, except someone with real backbone to say the investment and opportunities need spreading further away from London to reduce the pull factor of it and increase wages elsewhere.

Integration will be one positive point, but that could be achieved by merging franchises anyway, plus most commuters are getting one train in, the fact that it's a different company London to Brighton to London to Southend wouldn't bother most people in the slightest.

Soon at least when commuters complain about trains they won't be able to complain about the gross private sector profiteering of single or low double digit figure margins, they'll be able to complain directly to TfL run and organised by the state. Hopefully people will realise the issues are similar no matter who runs the trains and costs will always be high. Then maybe the zeal to nationalise the whole of Britain's railways (actually now very problematic under current European law, which is requiring the rail network to be portioned out and franchised) will subside again, fingers crossed!

Btw, anyone else notice how much NX will be saving the German state vs the revenue DB are being given now?!

[Tony]

What I am surprised at is that this TFL thing is happening under a Tory scum govt....I'm amazed there aren't screams of Communism from tory mps. ..has Boris suddenly had one to many and turned Socialist?  I mean even even the Tory MP for South Staffordshire is calling for the toll road to be nationalised. ...what next?

What you need to accept, Bob, is that all politicians of all sides can actually have good ideas.

Some politicians of all sides will actually do what is best for the people represent.

Some politicians of all sides are complete self serving knobs just out to make life better themselves and don't care who they tread on to get up there.

I respect your political views to the left of the spectrum, and the last thing I want is the tories getting a free reign without any opposition, but I don't call 'Jeremy' Scum just because I disagree with a lot of his views.

[JoNi]

Electrification of Gospel Oak - Barking line starts with 8 month closure from early June.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-closure