TWM's last new bus orders 'desert'

[The Real 4778]

I was looking at the age of the present fleet and considering the promise of 300 new buses, or whatever is the truth behind the rhetoric, and it set me thinking about the huge gap we had in new double-deck deliveries between 1990 and 1998.

In 1990 we had the 40-strong batch of H-LOM Scania N113s, and I remember thinking at the time, "what next?" but we didn't receive the first Spectra for a further 8 years.  In fact when the Mercs began arriving in quantity, they ousted the Fleetlines.

I've no interest in the politics of this era, having lived through it, just wondering what were the principal models of double decker that we completely missed out on seeing on the roads of the West Midlands because of the policy of operating the Metrobus fleet into the ground.

Olympians, Citybuses, what else were the standard deckers of the J-reg to R-reg years?  What, in an alternative version of history, do members think we would have seen in quantity if the number series 33XX - 39XX had been used?

[Tony]

It could have also been more Scanias our even step entrance Spectras, or even worse lots of B10M s. It seems we may have been quite lucky because the only really suitable bus built in large numbers during that period was the Olympian and the ones built in that period were some of the worst for rot

[j789]

The nicest looking buses available at that timeI think were the Palatin 2 bodied vehicles, also the non low floor Optare Spectras. They could also have got late model Dennis Denominators and Volvo Oympians.
The problem would have been though if large scale orders of such vehicles had happened in the early to mid 90s the number of low floor buses bought at the end of the decade and into the 2000s would have been a lot less as they would not have replaced 5 year old vehicles that quickly.
Also, the Metrobus clearly proved itself as a reliable and cheap bus to keep in the fleet (look at the withdrawal dates of the H-LOM buses compared to the Metros.

[Bob]

Mercs didnt replace fleetlines!!!

[The Real 4778]

Mercs didnt replace fleetlines!!!

Not one-for-one Bob, maybe.  But the Fleetlines went in 1997, same year as the R-plate O405N started to arrive in quantity.  That's what I meant.

By this stage it felt like deckers were in terminal decline, as the P-reg 1400s replaced Metros on the branded 33.

[winston]

The nicest looking buses available at that timeI think were the Palatin 2 bodied vehicles, also the non low floor Optare Spectras. They could also have got late model Dennis Denominators and Volvo Oympians.
The problem would have been though if large scale orders of such vehicles had happened in the early to mid 90s the number of low floor buses bought at the end of the decade and into the 2000s would have been a lot less as they would not have replaced 5 year old vehicles that quickly.
Also, the Metrobus clearly proved itself as a reliable and cheap bus to keep in the fleet (look at the withdrawal dates of the H-LOM buses compared to the Metros.

I agree that the NC Palatine II's were the smartest; the Alexander Royales weren't too bad either.

I don't think the Metrobus was necessarily a cheap bus to keep in the fleet, don't forget some had a number of rebuilds & the majority were re-built around the back end at Marshall's due to rot & structural problems with the rear end. Engine wise they were pretty reliable and easy to maintain/fix.

The biggest saving grace around that era on the single decker front is that we missed out on a large fleet of step entrance Dennis Darts

[Kevin_Brum12]

The Metrobuses did have extensive rebuilds in the mid 90's, and the reasoning was that despite the issues with corrosion it was cheaper for TWM to do that than order new vehicles.  It is worth comparing and contrasting with other large fleet operators with vehicles that were of similar vintage to the Metrobus.   The GM standard Atlantean ended up being culled from Stagecoach and First Manchester between 1995 and 2000 being replaced in both cases with step entrance single deckers, Darts and Olympians on the busier routes.  Double deck Atlanteans in Tyne and Wear gave way in the 90's to Alexander PS bodied Darts.   Sheffields Dominators solidered on perhaps too long, but I don't recall them having a Metrobus style refurbishment.

The refurbed Metrobuses gave enormous value for money, but should have gone a lot sooner (we can blame NX's desire to build a rail empire for that.)

[Tony]

There were no Alexander PS bodied darts, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle & Glasgow suffered PS bodied B10Ms which was a good chassis but was not ideal for urban work

[PM]

There were no Alexander PS bodied darts, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle & Glasgow suffered PS bodied B10Ms which was a good chassis was not ideal for urban work

Really? Thought that the b10m was regarded as one of the best buses of its day. I mean i prefer the lynx but i thought people loved the b10m-wm travel clearly liked the 1986 b10ms it had and their reliability. Would a large fleet of darts really have been such a bad thing?? It would have pushed up frequencies and enabled new vehicles to be bought at a good price??

[winston]

There were no Alexander PS bodied darts, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle & Glasgow suffered PS bodied B10Ms which was a good chassis was not ideal for urban work

Really? Thought that the b10m was regarded as one of the best buses of its day. I mean i prefer the lynx but i thought people loved the b10m-wm travel clearly liked the 1986 b10ms it had and their reliability. Would a large fleet of darts really have been such a bad thing?? It would have pushed up frequencies and enabled new vehicles to be bought at a good price??

The B10M's were good buses, but as Tony say's not ideal for urban bus work, due to them having two steps at the entrance, but they did then have flat floors throughout

[PM]

There were no Alexander PS bodied darts, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle & Glasgow suffered PS bodied B10Ms which was a good chassis was not ideal for urban work

Really? Thought that the b10m was regarded as one of the best buses of its day. I mean i prefer the lynx but i thought people loved the b10m-wm travel clearly liked the 1986 b10ms it had and their reliability. Would a large fleet of darts really have been such a bad thing?? It would have pushed up frequencies and enabled new vehicles to be bought at a good price??

The B10M's were good buses, but as Tony say's not ideal for urban bus work, due to them having two steps at the entrance, but they did then have flat floors throughout

Thats the thing. I would have thought lynx-b10m/b10b was a retrograde step, or perhaps two steps lol