News:

Welcome to the WM Buses in Photos Forum! New and existing members are kindly reminded to respect and abide by the Forum Rules that are in place here.

Main Menu

Boris's 3 billion for buses!

Started by JoNi, March 15, 2021, 10:09:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Trident 4194

Quote from: Tony on March 16, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
If he hadn't moved out of Downing Street for 12 months you'd be moaning he'd gone missing and didn't know what was going on.

For once I actually agree with you. The man is under constant scrutiny regardless of how he goes about his business

bususer28

Quote from: the trainbasher on March 16, 2021, 10:04:13 AM
But surely doing the announcement from the Commons or Number 10 is setting a better example than a armed convoy driving to Coventry for a photoshoot and then driving back.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Kevin_Brum12

What the strategy does is give the funeral rites to bus deregulation after 35 years.  The days of superannuated buses chasing the vehicles of the main operator on a profitable route like the Outer Circle, to cream off some of the big guys revenue and get BSOG (Bus Operator Service Grant) from Government for fuel, are over.  In 12 months if you are not in a quality partnership or an operator with a franchise you won't be getting BSOG.  In 3 months if you've not signed up to a partnership you won't be getting any COVID-19 support.

The West Midlands is very much ahead of the curve in terms of the Bus Alliance and what has been achieved here in the last few years.  Its clear the shire counties have got a lot of catching up to do, so I expect lots of visits to TfWM and the operators here in the next few months.  All local transport authorities have got to set up partnerships, or decide on franchising within 12 months.  In places where there has been no effective partnership or support for buses whatsoever this is going to be interesting indeed.

In terms of ticketing, it looks as if we are moving away from a single operator travelcard to a multi operator one, based on a principle if the daytime service is run by one operator and the evening service by another you should be able to travel on both.  For those of us with NXWM only passes, presumably at some point we are going to be migrated over to an "nBus" or whatever equivalent is being set up for Staffordshire or Warwickshire.  It may well be the operating areas of the multi-operator tickets are extended to cover the complete route out of county boundary.

There is a lot more teeth for the local authorities, in terms of setting fares, routes and service specifications.  The quid pro quo though is will they actually invest in the infrastructure needed to keep the buses moving and speed up services, or not?  A bucketload has been thrown in the strategy over the Labour Mayor of Liverpool and Coventry City Council for taking out bus lanes that had been put in, but those of us with long memories will remember it was a Conservative/Lib Dem Council in Birmingham in 2004 that started that trend.

Will also be interesting to see how the big operating groups play it.  Arriva have already disposed of Cannock, DB want shut of Arriva so does that mean a break up of the group?  Will First and Stagecoach look at weeding out some of their stragglers to focus on their better performers? 

There is the possibility that councils will be given powers to set up their own bus operator, if they wish to do so.  DfT are reviewing and there is to be a consultation later in the year.  If that is legislated for it is not just turning the clock back to 1986, but way, way, way before as many municipal operators (like Birmingham City Transport) started off by buying out private tramways in the days of Edward VIII and Chamberlain.

The 26th October 1986 was a D-Day in the history of the bus industry.  Looks like the 1st April 2022 will be P-Day.


Steveminor

The devil will most certainly be in the detail.
Interestingly the document does not mention QP only EP & franchising

DD12

Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 16, 2021, 10:44:47 PM
What the strategy does is give the funeral rites to bus deregulation after 35 years.  The days of superannuated buses chasing the vehicles of the main operator on a profitable route like the Outer Circle, to cream off some of the big guys revenue and get BSOG (Bus Operator Service Grant) from Government for fuel, are over.  In 12 months if you are not in a quality partnership or an operator with a franchise you won't be getting BSOG.  In 3 months if you've not signed up to a partnership you won't be getting any COVID-19 support.

The West Midlands is very much ahead of the curve in terms of the Bus Alliance and what has been achieved here in the last few years.  Its clear the shire counties have got a lot of catching up to do, so I expect lots of visits to TfWM and the operators here in the next few months.  All local transport authorities have got to set up partnerships, or decide on franchising within 12 months.  In places where there has been no effective partnership or support for buses whatsoever this is going to be interesting indeed.

In terms of ticketing, it looks as if we are moving away from a single operator travelcard to a multi operator one, based on a principle if the daytime service is run by one operator and the evening service by another you should be able to travel on both.  For those of us with NXWM only passes, presumably at some point we are going to be migrated over to an "nBus" or whatever equivalent is being set up for Staffordshire or Warwickshire.  It may well be the operating areas of the multi-operator tickets are extended to cover the complete route out of county boundary.

There is a lot more teeth for the local authorities, in terms of setting fares, routes and service specifications.  The quid pro quo though is will they actually invest in the infrastructure needed to keep the buses moving and speed up services, or not?  A bucketload has been thrown in the strategy over the Labour Mayor of Liverpool and Coventry City Council for taking out bus lanes that had been put in, but those of us with long memories will remember it was a Conservative/Lib Dem Council in Birmingham in 2004 that started that trend.

Will also be interesting to see how the big operating groups play it.  Arriva have already disposed of Cannock, DB want shut of Arriva so does that mean a break up of the group?  Will First and Stagecoach look at weeding out some of their stragglers to focus on their better performers? 

There is the possibility that councils will be given powers to set up their own bus operator, if they wish to do so.  DfT are reviewing and there is to be a consultation later in the year.  If that is legislated for it is not just turning the clock back to 1986, but way, way, way before as many municipal operators (like Birmingham City Transport) started off by buying out private tramways in the days of Edward VIII and Chamberlain.

The 26th October 1986 was a D-Day in the history of the bus industry.  Looks like the 1st April 2022 will be P-Day.

Thanks very much Kevin for your sensible appraisal.
Could you possibly clarify for me,  --  Is Worcester city, or is Worcestershire, a "LTA", please ??

( -I would hate Worcester+Worcestershire to get left-out of the potential benefits !!)

Cheese

Quote from: DD12 on March 17, 2021, 04:46:17 PM
Thanks very much Kevin for your sensible appraisal.
Could you possibly clarify for me,  --  Is Worcester city, or is Worcestershire, a "LTA", please ??

( -I would hate Worcester+Worcestershire to get left-out of the potential benefits !!)

Worcestershire is the LTA, i.e. the authority responsible for transport. Indeed, a very sensible and balanced view of the report, having been reading it yesterday to see the implications for the authority I work for.

DD12

Thanks Cheese, - very much appreciated !

Stu

Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 16, 2021, 10:44:47 PM
What the strategy does is give the funeral rites to bus deregulation after 35 years.  The days of superannuated buses chasing the vehicles of the main operator on a profitable route like the Outer Circle, to cream off some of the big guys revenue and get BSOG (Bus Operator Service Grant) from Government for fuel, are over.  In 12 months if you are not in a quality partnership or an operator with a franchise you won't be getting BSOG.  In 3 months if you've not signed up to a partnership you won't be getting any COVID-19 support.

Thanks for your detailed analysis. It is increasingly looking to me that this move will effectively 'squeeze out' small independent operators, who simply won't have the financial resources to invest substantial amounts of money in new zero-emission vehicles, which will no doubt become requirements in order to participate in these 'enhanced partnerships' or any franchise arrangements.

Smaller operators also won't enjoy the same 'lobbying powers' that the bigger groups enjoy. If anything, this move may well lead to more 'area monopolies' forming, with bigger groups swallowing up smaller operators who can't compete.

On the positive side, as long as passengers ultimately benefit, with simpler fares and easier ticketing options, it can only be a good thing.

Quote from: Steveminor on March 17, 2021, 08:32:18 AM
The devil will most certainly be in the detail.
Interestingly the document does not mention QP only EP & franchising

Somehow I was under the impression that Enhanced Partnerships (EP) were some sort of 'step-up' from Quality Partnerships (QP), unless I'm mistaken as to what the difference is?

With regards to the West Midlands area, I believe the WMCA has made it clear that they currently have no desire to embrace the franchising model, and would prefer to continue the current commercial operator arrangement, but with those operators running under some partnership agreement.
My locals:
2 - Birmingham to Maypole | 3 - Birmingham to Yardley Wood
11A/C - Birmingham Outer Circle | 27 - Yardley Wood to Frankley
76 - Solihull to Northfield | 169 - Solihull to Kings Heath

West Midlands Bus Users: Website | Facebook | X/Twitter | Bluesky

j789

Quote from: Stu on March 17, 2021, 07:41:03 PM
Thanks for your detailed analysis. It is increasingly looking to me that this move will effectively 'squeeze out' small independent operators, who simply won't have the financial resources to invest substantial amounts of money in new zero-emission vehicles, which will no doubt become requirements in order to participate in these 'enhanced partnerships' or any franchise arrangements.

Smaller operators also won't enjoy the same 'lobbying powers' that the bigger groups enjoy. If anything, this move may well lead to more 'area monopolies' forming, with bigger groups swallowing up smaller operators who can't compete.

On the positive side, as long as passengers ultimately benefit, with simpler fares and easier ticketing options, it can only be a good thing.

Somehow I was under the impression that Enhanced Partnerships (EP) were some sort of 'step-up' from Quality Partnerships (QP), unless I'm mistaken as to what the difference is?

With regards to the West Midlands area, I believe the WMCA has made it clear that they currently have no desire to embrace the franchising model, and would prefer to continue the current commercial operator arrangement, but with those operators running under some partnership agreement.

I don't see this as a bad thing in the West Midlands. Since deregulation very few smaller operators here have offered anything of real value to passengers, instead opting to just run a few minutes in front of the main operator and usually with clapped out Nationals then progressing onto clapped out Darts. They won't be a loss from the West Midlands bus scene. Yes a few companies, such as Yourbus and Ludlows, were quite innovative with routes but most smaller companies offer little additional incentive to use the bus with the state of some of the vehicles used on routes.

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk