Re-municipalisation

[Adam 404]

https://cbwmagazine.com/leicester-mayor-calls-re-municipalisation/

"I'm convinced that the next Labour Government should commit to allowing councils to re-municipalise their transport, to get all the benefits that come from that and have something that runs as a public service."

Considering the recent news on Rosso, I don't really see the argument being particularly strong... Costs are rising and councils are struggling... Just look at Northamptonshire County Council having to sell off their new headquarters to balance their books.

[Bob]

It depends? Look at Lothian, Blackpool, Cardiff, Nottingham? Im sure the Tories would want them all sold off though they hate the thought of anything belonging to the public

[Bob]

In places like Cannock where i live and were about to lose EVERY single Sunday bus service and most evening ones cos of tory cuts, a public owned operator who wouldnt just think about profit would be a good thing. What good has privatisation done here? Wheres the choice and value it promised? In nationalised days there was actually more choice! WMPTE midland red for public sector Green Bus Stevensons etc in the private. Weve now got Arriva with a virtual monopoly providing a crap service with knackered vehicles....

[Adam 404]

It depends? Look at Lothian, Blackpool, Cardiff, Nottingham? Im sure the Tories would want them all sold off though they hate the thought of anything belonging to the public

While there are good examples of municipal operators working successfully, I doubt there is the capital available to start up or take over services.

If the government had the money to spend on Sunday services, they maybe would whether running the service themselves or contracting it out. The trouble is THERE IS NO MONEY! Or at least at current, money doesn't want to be spent.

[Bob]

Well given there always seems to be public money for other things like benefits for sone of the absolute lifelong dole dossers on my estate etc, maybe its a case of spending it more wisely lol

[j789]

It depends? Look at Lothian, Blackpool, Cardiff, Nottingham? Im sure the Tories would want them all sold off though they hate the thought of anything belonging to the public

Without wishing to turn this into some sort of political debate, I think it is a naïve viewpoint you have there about the Tories and the public sector. Whilst I am actually in favour of a sort of re nationalisation of the transport industry, Labour are absolutely clueless in their assumption that nationalisation should happen across the board, eg utilities etc. Where exactly they think the money will come from is anyone's guess. Maybe they think they can just print more to pay for everything else they promise (perhaps it's the Venezuelan way!) - no tuition fees, more NHS funding, more free travel, more benefits to spongers with 20 kids etc etc.

Also, if you look back at photos of buses and trains from the 1970s when Labour were in power and everything was nationalised, I can't be the only one who thinks the presentation standards of those vehicles were shocking and they were losing money from pretty much every side. Nationalising is not the answer in a modern economy and never will be unless you have unlimited resources to throw at it.

[Isle of Stroma]

If the government had the money to spend on Sunday services, they maybe would whether running the service themselves or contracting it out. The trouble is THERE IS NO MONEY! Or at least at current, money doesn't want to be spent.

Yep, no money.

So, that recent £40m Clean Bus Technology Fund just fell out of an invisible magic money tree, did it?

[Tiptonian]

We have all been conditioned over many years to repeat the media mantras about money. This is a good get-out clause to lower our expectations, and make us fight long and hard for small considerations which should be ours as a right. If a local or national government has the political will to do something, be it vanity project or for political advantage, it will do it, no matter what the initial cost or ongoing cost effectiveness. The money will always miraculously appear.

The Midland Metro is a major example. It is too susceptible to closure through incidents and repair compared to a reserved busway. Over its history, it has hardly made any money, let alone recouped costs, and the trams have now been replaced after a working life no longer than that of a typical West Midlands bus. As if to underline the attitude, the new fleet of trams is now being retrofitted with traction batteries (more money) so that the nice areas near the Birmingham council administration buildings don't have to look at those ugly overhead wires.

The result is that only one route into Birmingham gets direct access to the main part of Corporation Street, and all other routes have been pushed out. Each tram has the same number of seats as a 1960s single decker bus (about twenty less than a double decker). These seats are not comfortable, and everyone else has to stand.

This project could have been so much more at much less cost and far more practical. In a quiet moment at the time of test running, (1998?) I was casually chatting with a consultant who had worked on transport projects worldwide. In the dismay of witnessing councillors and management discussing how good it will be to see trams arriving in Birmingham one after another with 130 passengers on each (remembering there were only 54 seats), I provocatively suggested that it should have been a trolleybus route, using luxurious 15 metre electric coaches, possibly even double deckers if bridge clearance permitted. To my suprise, he agreed with me, saying it would have been what he would have done, being the ideal situation to showcase a step forward in public transport thinking. He also said don't tell anyone here I said that! Class is unfortunately in the British psyche. We will use a bus or a standee tram if we have to. We would have used a smooth, quiet, luxurious "Electrocoach" because we wanted to. The Trent Barton Red Arrow (Derby to Nottingham) is a good illustration. 

Sorry for the off-topic rant! My point is, no matter what you are told about money, it is political will that will decide the path, not cost, value for money, or cost effectiveness.