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I've made a bloomer.here this should be in the General Discussion BUS section, not the rail section. Apologies

I am from the.Merseyside area but the only links I have had with the West Midlands.are the ex TWM Fleet lines in the 68xx series operated by a companies,called.Merseyline, Amberline and Arena (all defunct now) about 25 years ago. Merseyline adopted the.1980s WMPTE livery for its buses.

Anyway back to 2017. An operator on the Wirral, which is connected to Liverpool by road and rail tunnels and a declining ferry services, is having problems.

Arriva and Stagecoach(inheritors.of First PMT Crosville operations) are the main two firms,.but AVON BUSES are third placed with about 40 buses, mostly Darts but with some.LFDDs. Over the last decade or so they have built up a network of routes on the Wirral,  mostly nil tenders
However although still trading they are in difficulties at the moment having expanded their operations on the Liverpool side of the river. They have run one route in the city for many years but in 2017 they have taken on five routes, which frankly are marginal.  Other difficulties they are having is they have expanded operations with insufficient buses or staff. Other problems relate to the need to run dead mileage through the Mersey tunnels which are tolled. If the bus BREAKS DOWN on the Liverpool side of the river, the cost of towage through the tunnels is MASSIVE.
I think Avon has bitten off more than they can chew. They are cancelling services, and some.Merseytravels (our equivalent of Centro) takes a dim view of tendered routes being cancelled. This is one to watch, as if ex tender routes go belly up Merseytravels will be spitting feathers!

Just a slight amendments to the Volvo B10BLEs 3264/6 and 3454/8 should become 3881-4 to place them with other Volvo saloons (B7s). There are 15 Dennis Darts in the 3xxx range, these should become 2181-95.

You're correct as asset records need to be amended to take account of the vehicles change of identity.

Tony,-Of course its only a hypothetical exercise. I sent a previous scheme to Arriva some years back to which I got a polite but dismissive reply, so as they say once bitten...

When First started their chaotic scheme they allocated 1xxxx to articulated buses and 2xxxx to coaches.  Artics went out of favour and First's coach fleet was never large. IMHO Firsts coaches should be numbered 13xxx upwards and the dwindling article fleet moved in with the 6xxxx series, 12001-12018 (Scanias) for example becoming 65981-98. 2xxxx could be allocated to hybrid double deckers.

I have had some second thoughts and it is not really necessary to renumber the double deckers, but coaches of "Midshires" and Southern Counties need to move into the ,8xxx range and all single decks into 2000-3999 range.
The 1xxx range is free, but was originally used for MB Various which have all vanished.  As long as the 3xxx Darts are moved to the 21xx series and the MB artics to 3991-8 there should be sufficient spare numbers for new single decker s, most of 23xx. 26xx, 28xx, most of 30xx, 31/32/34xx would be released. Of course there us the national schemes laid out in the General Discussion thread.

Tony- The snag is not knowing how many more double deckers are coming and what make they will be. The First and Stagecoach schemes pre dated and made little allowance for hybrid vehicles. Stagecoach is running out of numbers for double deckers. The preserved Leyland/Volvo Olympians will have to vacate their 14xxx/16xxx series fleet numbers, and the Routemaster fleet revert to original London Transport bonnet numbers.
Back to my suggestions the hybrids would have to be 36000-38999 which would leave only the 39xxx range left for a growing fleet.  There would have been more pressure if Arriva hadn't sold the London Sightseeing fleet and the TGM operations.

Tony - I will answer this query on the General Discussion thread. Thanks for your interest.

Here is an outline plan for an Arriva national fleet numbering scheme. It is an outline scheme as it would take forever to do an accurate one as withdrawals and new entries quickly make it obsolete.

10xxx.   Coaches
11xxx.   Optare Solo
12xxx.   Dennis/ADL Dart MPD size
13xxx.   Dennis/ADL Dart full size
14xxx.   Wrightbus Streetlites
19xxx.   Other minibus types.
20xxx.   VDL SB200/180
21xxx.   VDL SB120
22xxx.   Optare
23xxx.   Volvo B7/B10B
24xxx.   Scania (248xx MAN, 249xx Temsa)
25xxx    Mercedes Citaro (25500-999 ADL E300)
29xxx. . MAN CNG/ BYD electronic.

Double Deckers
30xxx.   VDL/Wrightbus DB,300
31xxx.   DAF/VDL DB250
32xxx.   Volvo B7/B9
33xxx.   ADL E400
34xxx.   Spare for ADL E400, 349xx for Dennis Tridents
35xxx.   Wrightbus Streetdeck, 359xx Scanias
40xxx.   ADL E400H
42xxx.   Volvo B5LH
44xxx.    Other hybrid dd types

London LT type and Routemasters keep their current numbers.

I hope this is of some interest!

I totally agree with you about an Arriva national numbering scheme and I drew one up, but I'll have to put it as a separate topic elsewhere on the forum.

Many of the vehicles that need renumbering are mainly the newer fleet members.  I must add here that Volvo B10BLEs 3264/6 should become 3464/6 and Scania 3468 s.b 3599.

Further to my first post I have some added suggestions for "Midshires" fleet numbers.

All VDL SB120s to be numbered in 27xx range.
Wrightbus Streetlites to become 3344-81.
MB Citaro 3908/9/12-32 become 3023-45.
MAN 3741-7 to become 3491-7.
MB artics to become 4991-8.
VDL SB200 MX12/13 reg 3767-78 to become.3812-23.
Dennis Darts in 3xxx to become 2120-32, all being MPDs.
Shires Dennis Tridents 5421-5 to become 5451-5
ex London DAF DB250 6xxx series to become 5811 upwards.
Optare Solo 441 and 6xxx range to become 2414-21.
These changes would eliminate duplication and would concentrate buses into appropriate blocks.

I got this idea from another website but here I suggest a new name for the combined Midland/Shires operation, as the building society of that name no longer uses it.
I wish they'd crack on with renumbering the  fleet
Midlands dds currently in the 4xxx series simply need 1000 added to their fleet numbers with the 48xx filling gaps in 57xx range.The artics at Leicester would become 4991-7.  Shires Wrightbus Streetlites to become 3344-69.  Optare Solos to fill gaps in 24xx/25xx range.
As Shires/Southern Counties own Arrivas only coaches I suggest these move into a single 8xxx range. Tjis scheme generally puts single deckers in the 2000,-4999/series, with double decks in the 5xxx and probably 6xxx range.  Let's hope they do it soon!