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Was scheduled for 21.38 international shuttle ended up on the 22.20 that left at 22.30 through to london.
Think there was an amended timetable in place not really sure

It's not all staffing issues. Sunday night was waiting in new street for lea hall line for the 21.38.(Already very late due to how many bloxwich trains were cancelled). We were stood next to the guard & driver when his train was diverted to make a departure to Wolverhampton. Reason our train was cancelled "shortage of train crew". I mean the guys were standing right there!!!!

With the occasional Gemini

Yeah was very nice of Birmingham City Council to start roadworks at the Bromford on the same day as the change nulifying all the gains that nx could make with the change

This is not necessarily true at all about lower costs for smaller operators. And before you jump on me saying you've had years of experience, I too have had a lot of experience dealing with route costings in various roles. Driver wages, fuel and vehicle depreciation are the main costs for every operator when costing routes. Larger companies likely pay higher wages but this can be offset by the larger company being in a better position to negotiate fuel contracts and thus get fuel at a cheaper price per gallon. Likewise, larger companies generally have more scope for making use of vehicles for a longer time than smaller ones (through moving between different operating companies) so get more value out of their vehicles. Depot and associated running costs are obviously higher for larger depots but per bus operated this oftendoes not always work out as more expensive verses a smaller depot.

Equally, smaller companies using older vehicles and paying lower wages are generally not going to be able to offer the same quality - good drivers cost money (and are worth it) but paying the minimum wage for drivers will not get you the best drivers, (likewise additional benefits like a decent pension) but this is often the case with some operators as costs are so tight when bidding for contracts. They may be able to bid lower for the contract but the quality for passengers is far from guaranteed compared to what a slightly higher bidding company could offer.

It's been quite eye opening over the years to witness drivers from the companies I have been involved with, who have been sacked for various reasons, often turning up driving for certain other companies. Now everyone is entitled to a job, but it doesn't give a great impression of quality standards of these companies when you see this happening over and over again. They clearly can't attract the best drivers so are forced into taking other companies cast offs.

In summary, cheaper is rarely the best outcome for passengers!

Staff can change operators for a number of reasons not necessarily because they are a cast off I.e sacked or jumped before being pushed. Plenty of ex Claribels staff have ended up with national express   does that mean national express has accepted our cast offs?

Don. Although I'm not a fan of the mellors personally I have to say the low operating costs of these vehicles at a time when LTA funding has reduced has no doubt been the saviour of a lot of routes around the uk with costs going to be squeezed more in the future I can see a larger growing market for these vehicles although the government has to change its stance on zebra funding.

@Westy that's the problem with current arrangements. It was not viable for another operator to serve your area as passenger numbers were so low due in part because a proportion of those wishing to use the bus wouldn't pay the extra for the nbus product & would walk to the nearest nx bus. Those passenger figures will be larger for nx, however nx will have higher overheads than other operators so reducing the commercial viability of the service. Ourselves chaserider diamond etc would all require less passengers per hour to make a route commercially viable. So if through ticketing you open up the market for all operators to have equal access to passengers then maybe (cant say for certain) but you wouldn't have had service issues like what you have had.

There is a timeframe for preparing & submitting BSIPa to the government & they are quite tight as it is. If there is an issue with current arrangements that makes the E.P route commercially unviable for operators it does no good trying to kick the can down the road & hope the problem goes away.

The other thing to consider is funding going forward to deliver the bus strategy in April 2022 Bus service improvement plans. The amount of money the government delivers to each of the LTAS depends on the strength of the BSIP. On the face of it Franchising would provide a stronger BSIP however in the West Midlands the E.P  direction may not in itself have been as strong however what we did have was the QA's & a vehicle to develop more. We no longer have that & before anyone jumps Simon has shared evidence with me regarding how the QA arrangements as they are currently dont work & I fully agree with his reasons for pulling out. In fact please forgive me Simon but I feel it really needs to be said we spoke about the QA'S bearly 12 months ago & their failings in that time something could have been done but clearly no issues were addressed so what else can you do.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that sense prevails or franchising looms as full BSIP plans as to how tfwm will realise the national bus strategy must be submitted to the government in October, which isn't far away.


Let's just get this sorted

The way in which operators are reimbursed for the passengers they carry is what needs to change & a method that allows any operator the ability to be innovative with routing without the dominant operators pass being a barrier.
A system that allows passengers to use any bus without financial impact to the passenger or operator.
It's not just in the West Midlands its across the country hence why we have a "National Bus Strategy"

Where exactly do you think the money to invest in new vehicles comes from if not from profits????

Been there twice mate & got bought out twice, young family now so the position I'm in suits the life I need. Maybe you should have a go?

Serverse was inventive the longstanding 96 to Tamworth through villages that today see hardly any buses serverse ran through those hourly or the 70 which today forms the basis of the 75.
Those operators aren't about now well some  were through the owners having serious health conditions or those guys are no longer with us & some are gone through operator buy outs.
Routes change as the market is ever changing but a lot of those routes or the basis of them still exists today.

When it comes to Redditch the best thing that happened was First pulling out as there is much more investment now than there had been from First towards the end

Name other innovative operators. That's a challenge let's see.
Birmingham coach company, north Birmingham busways, Stevenson's, midland choice, Hansons, serverse Travel, Burman Travel, Frontline Buses, vanguard coaches.

Is that enough for you or do I keep going.

Oh & previous comment yes I did work for Pete's Travel 377X 452 628 & 96A were just a few of my innovations at that firm. Shall I go on.

As simon said every operator at some point gone head to head competing with another. At the time that's what deregulation was about operators competing to bring different benefits fares etc to the travelling public. Would you tell Morrisons they cant sell milk because Asda sell milk.

I was asked & answered as honestly as I can what I believe is the best way to put the entrepreneurial spirit back into the bus network whilst providing a good network that works for both operators and travelling public. This in my opinion is what the national bus strategy is looking to do.

Covid has given this push to provide a better network & there are many challenges yet to come for the bus industry to regain lost patronage, whatever happens it's going to be a very interesting new normal.

Let's not look back now on who did what to who & let's solve these challenges & come up with arrangements that allow ALL operators to survive & grow profitably whist giving passengers a joined up network

A victim of their own success, benefactors of others short comings, predatory bad guy, call them what you will. The problem is that with such a high dominance and with their own ticket range of the same dominance we have lost a lot of the innovation that we once had. The national bus strategy dies state the government does not want to lose the entrepreneurial spirit that de regulation has bought.
We have to tackle these thorny issues of ticketing and quickly for operators and passengers benefit or clearly the only model that will work is franchising.

I believe the current reimbursement rates for encts is not high enough, although the statement says an operator should be no better or worse off for accepting encts the reality is that if you had a service that was only carrying encts pass holders you would not be able to make it commercially viable that in itself coupled with the evidence through lack of rural community services that primarily carry encts passengers shows the current arrangements dont work.
I believe the national bus strategy will try to tackle that issue.

The national bus strategy also calls for cross operator ticketing at little to no premium. I believe that if nbus was priced the same as the nx equivalent product then this would remove one of the barriers to innovative new routes. The strength of the nx products is such that a large percentage of passengers will take a more indirect route to their destination simply due to the fact that the direct service would require them to buy a "slightly" more expensive product. I believe that also where a passenger has bought another operators pass then that operator should reimburse the other one for acceptance of their product at a fair amount.

This would ensure passengers got a seamless system of payment whichever route or operator they chose to travel with & could take a more direct service whilst giving operators confidence to trial new direct connections with the knowledge that there access to 100% of the passenger base.

With passenger levels expected to be suppressed for quite a long time (if the ever recover to pre covid levels) this is essential to ensure the network as it is survives let alone increasing it.


For me & Mr Dunn to be singing from the same hymn sheet basically says the others have got to change their tune & listen to 2 long term bus men.

We're talking about operators, not individual services. In that list even Social Travel tried to innovate with the 74A & 74S over cannock although ultimately unsuccessful at least they tried.
But yes there were a few that did nothing in terms of value to passengers or innovation of routes added very little value.

I say value to passengers as an operator that has invested in newer vehicles than their competitors to attract passengers could be seen to add value as the case with Royal Diamond on the 9 or when Arriva launched sapphire on the 110 (before platinum)