Is there any news of orders for 2013.
Previously NX have said they will order approximately 120 new vehicles per year to keep pace with fleet replacement
So far the following have been mentioned
21 Hybrids for NXWM for WN route 1. I believe this to be 12 E400s & 9 Geminis (swap with BC E400s)
10 Hybrids for NXD. These were confirmed as E400s in the press release
So that leaves 89 additional vehicles to order. Any ideas?
There's been a few rumours of Scania Double Deckers being ordered. We have the Midi Bus order of Enviro 200s too although if that's a 2012 thing or a 2013 thing we're not sure.
The midi bus order is part of the 2012 order, as only 100 x Volvo B7RLE have arrived to date,
I would think that NX would need to order a higher proportion of new double deckers for 2013 onwards, as there are now issues with Presidents no longer being able to enter the City Centre from Jan 2013, the Outer Circle has lost newer Gemini's in favour of Presidents, WB need to some new/newer full size single deckers for the 83? & 89. Plus there are still a number of routes throughout the region that would benefit for the increased capacity in lieu of single deckers
the 89 might go double deck now its extended to blackheath, but WB desperatly need new buses. if it was up to me this is what i would do -
order 50-60 new volvo deckers to replace buses on 74/75/82/87 as they are prime routes at WB
move geminis/B7s onto 127/128/129/83/89/5
transfer presidents to pensnett and AG
that is my opinon.
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 01:14:56 PM
The midi bus order is part of the 2012 order, as only 100 x Volvo B7RLE have arrived to date,
I would think that NX would need to order a higher proportion of new double deckers for 2013 onwards, as there are now issues with Presidents no longer being able to enter the City Centre from Jan 2013, the Outer Circle has lost newer Gemini's in favour of Presidents, WB need to some new/newer full size single deckers for the 83? & 89. Plus there are still a number of routes throughout the region that would benefit for the increased capacity in lieu of single deckers
You're right Winston. The problem is any operator will always want a certain percentage of its fleet to be SD to retain flexibility in terms of future route alterations or fleet interchangability between depots. In an area where there lots of railways and canals, we have so many low bridges and if NX want to use different roads in the future on new services as travel habits change and development occurs, they will want that flexibility. Plus of course they are slightly cheaper!
I never have a problem with single deck conversions as long as frequency increases to match, increased frequency will always attract more passengers than more available seats.
Midibus order is part of 2012 order .
From what I remember a press release and/or an Express & Star feature stated around 30 midibuses + 100 single deckers, so only the midibuses outstanding
Quote from: wbdriver on October 11, 2012, 01:21:05 PM
the 89 might go double deck now its extended to blackheath, but WB desperatly need new buses. if it was up to me this is what i would do -
order 50-60 new volvo deckers to replace buses on 74/75/82/87 as they are prime routes at WB
move geminis/B7s onto 127/128/129/83/89/5
transfer presidents to pensnett and AG
that is my opinon.
I like your thinking, but I doubt WB would get that many new double decks in one hit, I can't see AG being prepared to take anymore Presidents as they already have 49 of them, Presidents to PE would work for the 246, X96 etc
One thing that would overlook at WB is the 40 aging Mercs still in service of which 22 of them are in the 15-- & early 16-- series range which are earmarked for withdrawal
Quote from: andy on October 11, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 01:14:56 PM
The midi bus order is part of the 2012 order, as only 100 x Volvo B7RLE have arrived to date,
I would think that NX would need to order a higher proportion of new double deckers for 2013 onwards, as there are now issues with Presidents no longer being able to enter the City Centre from Jan 2013, the Outer Circle has lost newer Gemini's in favour of Presidents, WB need to some new/newer full size single deckers for the 83? & 89. Plus there are still a number of routes throughout the region that would benefit for the increased capacity in lieu of single deckers
I never have a problem with single deck conversions as long as frequency increases to match, increased frequency will always attract more passengers than more available seats.
Andy, I agree that increasing the frequency whilst retaining single deckers will more be likely to grow passengers numbers than simply just increasing capacity. However, increasing the frequency increases the costs etc, so you would have to way up whether a frequency increase could generate the extra revenue needed to cover the increased costs whilst still making the same profit as previous /or more. If double deckers were used to replace single deckers on busy routes at least passengers would be more likely to get a seat at busy times....
The NX article in this weeks CBW states Coventry are to receive 27 new buses
I agree that a certain percentage of single deck buses need to be retained, but the percentage of single deckers with NXWM is 43%, and 55% at the four Black Country garages. This is high for an urban operation.
Even if 100 single deckers were replaced by 50 double and 50 single next year, the percentage of single deckers would only go down to 40%, while replacing 100 singles with 100 doubles would reduce the percentage of single deckers to 37%.
Wasn't there talk of new buses for the 246,276,297 & X96 because of the emmisions in brierley hill or is that for 2014 ?
Quote from: A1991 on October 11, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
Wasn't there talk of new buses for the 246,276,297 & X96 because of the emmisions in brierley hill or is that for 2014 ?
May have be a result of the Brierley Hill bus funding rather than emissions, which is what has resulted in the 222 receiving new buses. The 246 & X96 were definitely suggested as candidates not so sure on the 276 & 297 though
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
The NX article in this weeks CBW states Coventry are to receive 27 new buses
Tony, are you able to post the article on the forum or do you only receive a paper copy?
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: A1991 on October 11, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
Wasn't there talk of new buses for the 246,276,297 & X96 because of the emmisions in brierley hill or is that for 2014 ?
May have be a result of the Brierley Hill bus funding rather than emissions, which is what has resulted in the 222 receiving new buses. The 246 & X96 were definitely suggested as candidates not so sure on the 276 & 297 though
The Brierley Hill Better Bus Area bid document stated the following.
£2.2m investment in brand new euro 5 busesOperators have agreed to invest £2.2m in new buses that would not otherwise be procured for the region. This investment will include enhanced internal features as part of a higher quality vehicle specification and include branding of the new buses.
On Vehicle Displays on up to 40 buses serving the strategic routesUp to 40 buses will be installed with On Vehicle Displays and speakers to allow next stop audio and visual announcements, in line with the government backed Talking Buses scheme. This proposal will allow the biggest increase in talking buses within the West Midlands area and significantly improve passenger information.
The eight strategic routes are 002, 81, 222, 226, 246, 255, 297, X96. Therefore, this does not suggest that the strategic routes will all be upgraded to Euro 5 buses, although some probably will. I wonder whether the 4M will be added to the strategic routes now that it operates to Merry Hill every day.
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
The NX article in this weeks CBW states Coventry are to receive 27 new buses
Tony, are you able to post the article on the forum or do you only receive a paper copy?
I get a paper copy you will ned to go to the WHSmith library to read it. They do stock coach anf bus week now
Quote from: Roy on October 11, 2012, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: A1991 on October 11, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
Wasn't there talk of new buses for the 246,276,297 & X96 because of the emmisions in brierley hill or is that for 2014 ?
May have be a result of the Brierley Hill bus funding rather than emissions, which is what has resulted in the 222 receiving new buses. The 246 & X96 were definitely suggested as candidates not so sure on the 276 & 297 though
The Brierley Hill Better Bus Area bid document stated the following.
£2.2m investment in brand new euro 5 buses
Operators have agreed to invest £2.2m in new buses that would not otherwise be procured for the region. This investment will include enhanced internal features as part of a higher quality vehicle specification and include branding of the new buses.
On Vehicle Displays on up to 40 buses serving the strategic routes
Up to 40 buses will be installed with On Vehicle Displays and speakers to allow next stop audio and visual announcements, in line with the government backed Talking Buses scheme. This proposal will allow the biggest increase in talking buses within the West Midlands area and significantly improve passenger information.
The eight strategic routes are 002, 81, 222, 226, 246, 255, 297, X96. Therefore, this does not suggest that the strategic routes will all be upgraded to Euro 5 buses, although some probably will. I wonder whether the 4M will be added to the strategic routes now that it operates to Merry Hill every day.
That clears it up then, I thought they were going to invest in new buses for it as well, but saying that, by time it all happens they'll probably be new buses anyway.
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: Winston on October 11, 2012, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
The NX article in this weeks CBW states Coventry are to receive 27 new buses
Tony, are you able to post the article on the forum or do you only receive a paper copy?
I get a paper copy you will ned to go to the WHSmith library to read it. They do stock coach anf bus week now
Thanks Tony will do, thought it was still subscription only
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
do you think NX would consider replacing the old mercs with new ones as i would think their maintance was same so no training needed or if it was it would be a refresher rather than full. Also i think its good to see mercs in Cov too as show we can forgive for what happened in years gone by.
It'd be nice to see the Mercs replaced by Citaros. Some of them in red and white would be a very nice addition.
Quote from: JackC on October 11, 2012, 06:14:59 PM
It'd be nice to see the Mercs replaced by Citaros. Some of them in red and white would be a very nice addition.
Agreed it'd be nice but they could replace more of the fleet for the same amount of money by buying volvos-especially those with mcv bodies-assuming there cheaper.
Quote from: Peter123 on October 11, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
Quote from: JackC on October 11, 2012, 06:14:59 PM
It'd be nice to see the Mercs replaced by Citaros. Some of them in red and white would be a very nice addition.
Agreed it'd be nice but they could replace more of the fleet for the same amount of money by buying volvos-especially those with mcv bodies-assuming there cheaper.
Mhm, definitely. They aren't the cheapest buses but with so many operators buying Citaros more and more, they must be worth the extra cost. Saying that though, if some of the MCV bodied Volvos came in to the fleet instead I would be rather pleased too. I haven't been on the demonstrator yet but I must say it looks fantastic.
Quote from: JackC on October 11, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on October 11, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
Quote from: JackC on October 11, 2012, 06:14:59 PM
It'd be nice to see the Mercs replaced by Citaros. Some of them in red and white would be a very nice addition.
Agreed it'd be nice but they could replace more of the fleet for the same amount of money by buying volvos-especially those with mcv bodies-assuming there cheaper.
Mhm, definitely. They aren't the cheapest buses but with so many operators buying Citaros more and more, they must be worth the extra cost. Saying that though, if some of the MCV bodied Volvos came in to the fleet instead I would be rather pleased too. I haven't been on the demonstrator yet but I must say it looks fantastic.
Agree with you-mercs seem rock solid-any bus that can survive about 13 years on dudley road/inner circle etc routes deserves credit and theyve proven that if u can afford them mercs are amazing. Its just weighing up-more new buses or fewer new mercs.... would be happy tho to see pretty much any new buses, tho i prefered the b7rles when they were a bit less eco...... :P
I think if Citaros ever do come into NXWM, it will be a special order of some sort and not just fleet replacement. Maybe to upgrade a route to Showcase or something.
Citaros are among the best in the country for sure. Very reliable, smooth and comfortable with good build quality. Really they would be a like of like replacement of the 405s. The Liberators have been excellent and more Wrights would be able to replace them with no problem.
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
120 vehicles a year (incidently it was 100 + 30mini this year) is certainly keeping place with replacements. If 130 vehicles are ordered every year the entire fleet would be replaced with in 13 years. Work out all the other large groups (First/Arriva/Go-Ahead/Stagecoach) and see if their current vehicle ordering replaces their fleet within 13 years
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 08:16:11 PM
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
120 vehicles a year (incidently it was 100 + 30mini this year) is certainly keeping place with replacements. If 130 vehicles are ordered every year the entire fleet would be replaced with in 13 years. Work out all the other large groups (First/Arriva/Go-Ahead/Stagecoach) and see if their current vehicle ordering replaces their fleet within 13 years
Surely NXWM should order more than 130 vehicles a year for at least the next couple of years to make up for the fact that currently there are a lot of buses that should be due for withdrawal, as TWM replaced such a large percentage of its fleet between 1996 and 2000
Quote from: Peter123 on October 11, 2012, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 08:16:11 PM
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
120 vehicles a year (incidently it was 100 + 30mini this year) is certainly keeping place with replacements. If 130 vehicles are ordered every year the entire fleet would be replaced with in 13 years. Work out all the other large groups (First/Arriva/Go-Ahead/Stagecoach) and see if their current vehicle ordering replaces their fleet within 13 years
Surely NXWM should order more than 130 vehicles a year for at least the next couple of years to make up for the fact that currently there are a lot of buses that should be due for withdrawal, as TWM replaced such a large percentage of its fleet between 1996 and 2000
All that does is leave another blip in the age profile for another few years. Why should a refurbished reliable Mercedes on the X96 be due for withdrawal, just because of it's registration plate.
Let's see what other big groups that people think are good operators have still got in use.
Trent-Barton Group - 17 year old step entrance B10Bs
Go-Ahead Group - 23 year old step entrance Olympians
Transdev - various elder stuff up to 20 year old
Stagecoach - Various aged step entrance Olympians & B10Ms
Arriva - Various step entrance stuff up to 20 years old
First - loads of ancient crap
I would put NX's oldest buses (B10Ls or O405Ns) up against any of those for quality
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
The NX article in this weeks CBW states Coventry are to receive 27 new buses
Makes perfect sense - they have a large number of older Mercs also - I do agree that West Brom ought to receive some new buses as well - presumably they may have some of the minibus order?
Quote from: A1991 on October 11, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
Wasn't there talk of new buses for the 246,276,297 & X96 because of the emmisions in brierley hill or is that for 2014 ?
Surely a lot of this is covered by B7RLEs, the yet to be formally announced minibuses and improvement of the later Mercs with new destination equipment?
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on October 11, 2012, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2012, 08:16:11 PM
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
120 vehicles a year (incidently it was 100 + 30mini this year) is certainly keeping place with replacements. If 130 vehicles are ordered every year the entire fleet would be replaced with in 13 years. Work out all the other large groups (First/Arriva/Go-Ahead/Stagecoach) and see if their current vehicle ordering replaces their fleet within 13 years
Surely NXWM should order more than 130 vehicles a year for at least the next couple of years to make up for the fact that currently there are a lot of buses that should be due for withdrawal, as TWM replaced such a large percentage of its fleet between 1996 and 2000
All that does is leave another blip in the age profile for another few years. Why should a refurbished reliable Mercedes on the X96 be due for withdrawal, just because of it's registration plate.
Let's see what other big groups that people think are good operators have still got in use.
Trent-Barton Group - 17 year old step entrance B10Bs
Go-Ahead Group - 23 year old step entrance Olympians
Transdev - various elder stuff up to 20 year old
Stagecoach - Various aged step entrance Olympians & B10Ms
Arriva - Various step entrance stuff up to 20 years old
First - loads of ancient crap
I would put NX's oldest buses (B10Ls or O405Ns) up against any of those for quality
I will be very sad the day the last merc is withdrawn for me there the best buses NXWM have expecially for their age, i was on 1619 yesterday on the 405. As a merc that has not been refurbed and painted since new it was very smart in condition, the outside paintwork was very well kept and although it has the older pattened seats they were well padded and not worn and very comfortable and wouldnt complain if i was on a long journey having to sit on one. Some rattles but nothing thats going to give you a headache. Engine seemed quite powerful but had the usual banging into gear, which seems to give the bus extra character. Hopefully the mercs will be in service for a few years yet before they have all gone.
Transdev have still got A reg Olympians kicking about all over the north of england if not older ones haven't they?
Sooo guys in an ideal prsctical world what do we think the order will be, :)
I love the Mercs as well. After reading the article posted on here the other day about Arriva Tamworths new Citaro's i worked it out to be £148,000 per bus which surely is about the same as any single decker?
Quote from: danny on October 11, 2012, 11:33:35 PM
Sooo guys in an ideal prsctical world what do we think the order will be, :)
If its 130 each year, I'd say 21 hybrids (already known about) possibly more b7rle's, maybe some mcv evolutions (if they like the demonstrator) some scania omnicity's, and possibly some more midi buses to replace the solo's and remaining b6's.
Quote from: BU07 LGO on October 12, 2012, 12:24:11 AM
I love the Mercs as well. After reading the article posted on here the other day about Arriva Tamworths new Citaro's i worked it out to be £148,000 per bus which surely is about the same as any single decker?
I couldn't find much to go with, but I took a look at the NXWM site and found the article about the 29 new B7's at WN, where it states that it was an investment of over £3m. So, you're looking at a rough estimate of maybe £100k-£110k per bus.
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
By my reckoning (hope the numbers are correct) the following vehicles are due for imminent replacement:-
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6L 50 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
NXD (not included Solos)
Volvo B10L 18 (Includes 7129)
Volvo Olympian 5
Total 23
So that's a total of 246 buses to be replaced by 30? Midibuses + 120 (TBC) buses for 2013
This would leave 96 to be replaced in 2014 plus a start on withdrawing the second batch of Mercs and Dundee Volvo B10LEs
By my reckoning without any fleet expansion, there will still be T reg 1999 (16 year old) Mercs floating around in 2014 so the 120 new vehicles/year is not keeping pace with fleet replacement needs.
NXWM
Mercedes 0405N (1515>1627) 86
Volvo B10L 46 (includes 2 ex Dundee)
Volvo B6LE 48 (includes 1 ex Airlinks)
Dart SLF 2 (7084 & 7086)
Optare Excel 6
Optare Solo 14
Optare Spectra 21
Total 223
Although I see where your coming from re - fleet investment, once the 30 x Midi's enter service & are hopefully followed by a further 120 new buses during 2013, I think eventually when NX withdraw the remaining B10L's / B6LE's / Excel's and further early Merc's that will make a big improvement to the quality of the fleet. Eventually having a fleet of no older than 13 yrs assuming the current investment levels continues is pretty good, remember any investment of new vehicles needs to stay in service long enough to cover the costs of the initial purchase & depreciation. None of the other big groups will have such a modern fleet across the group, and don't forget NXWM have been 100% low floor for sometime while the other big groups still operate step entrance vehicles. As long as some of the older vehicles are at least repainted & re-trimmed, there isn't a lot wrong with using them on the less frequent / less profitable routes
NX will have a similar issue once the 2000-2004 start to come due for withdrawal as there are 658 double deckers that are currently in service from that era, and then there was a lull on double decker deliveries of any size until 2007
I agree with your comments, I was not criticising NX just giving an overview of current fleet replacement
In addition NX are clearly placing a huge effort on improving the presentaion of the fleet with all the refurbs on the mid life double deckers
Quote from: Winston on October 12, 2012, 11:31:25 AM
NX will have a similar issue once the 2000-2004 start to come due for withdrawal as there are 658 double deckers that are currently in service from that era, and then there was a lull on double decker deliveries of any size until 2007
Which equals 131.5 buses per year ;)
But I'm guessing that The Presidents and later Mercs/early Tridents will be replaced concurrently at 130 vehs per year maybe from 2014/2015.
Quote from: JackC on October 11, 2012, 06:26:49 PM
I think if Citaros ever do come into NXWM, it will be a special order of some sort and not just fleet replacement. Maybe to upgrade a route to Showcase or something.
They could go down the Transdev Route and buy the bog standard and tart them up them selves and get what they want for a fraction of the price. Just a thought.
Hello guys are their any conformatioms of what the nxwm order will be for next year beside hybrids, or any well sources rumours.
I'm expecting more Wright bodied (or MCV, but I prefer the Wright) B7RLE.
More midi-buses should be coming soon too, in addition to those on order.
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Heard the other day that BC may be getting new double deckers, either to go on the 900/957, or the Pershore Road 45/47
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Shame that its being discontinued, I thought it was a very profitable bus for Volvo.
Even more reason to buy another batch then.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on November 10, 2012, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Shame that its being discontinued, I thought it was a very profitable bus for Volvo.
Even more reason to buy another batch then.
The B7RLE has been popular chassis for Volvo, but you may find the chassis is being changed to suit the new Euro 6 emission standards due in not too distant future, plus operators are always looking for more fuel efficient vehicles. Maybe the chassis is being re-designed to make further weight savings etc
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Would have thought that its now unlikely that NX would buy any new Volvo B9TL/Eclipse Gemini if the Gemini body is being replaced shortly
Quote from: BC driver on November 10, 2012, 03:55:22 PM
Heard the other day that BC may be getting new double deckers, either to go on the 900/957, or the Pershore Road 45/47
Why waste new buses on the Pershore Rd services, they'll only get trashed.....
I'm thinking for NX 2013 orders, they may opt to order the following:
20 x Midi's to replace remaining Solo's at NXWM and some early Solo's at Dundee
40 x Volvo B7RLE/Wright to replace further Mercs / B10L's
70 x New double deckers (which includes the 21 Hybrids)
There is also the 10 Hybrids for Dundee
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 05:25:30 PM
There is also the 10 Hybrids for Dundee
yes, forgot about them.... that's screwed my figures up then. I still thinking the majority of 2013's new orders will be made up of double deckers though
We know the following to date:
21 x Hybrid double deckers (12 x ADL Enviro 400H / 9 x B5L/Wright HEV) to WN for the 1
10 or 9 (quoted by ADL's recent order announcement) ADL Enviro 400H for Dundee
27 new vehicles for CV (Quoted by CV's MD in CBW)
It sounds as though PB are expecting new double deckers for the Sutton Lines for the North B'ham Review
Will WB be also due a further batch as part of the Sandwell Review?
That already accounts for two thirds of potential total of 120 being ordered for 2013, unless they opt to order more that year due to the Sandwell / North B'ham Reviews & B'ham Emission zones coming in to force
QuoteIt sounds as though PB are expecting new double deckers for the Sutton Lines for the North B'ham Review
Will WB be also due a further batch as part of the Sandwell Review?
More likely that if PB get new double deck Omnicities, some of their Geminis would cascade to WB, possibly to upgrade the extended 89 service to double-deck operation, which it sounds like it badly needs.
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Is that the nutty fruitcake Boris Johnson bus - allegedly TfL t place an order for 600 soon. Someone should do an FOI request to see how much public money has been expended on that (beyond the cost of buying normal buses) - looks like an updated 1963 Park Royal Fleetline body to me!!
No, the streets ahead bus isnt the new LT class bus. The tfl order has been confirmed btw. And you may find that nxwm will want to order lots of buses in 2013 or at least for them to be built in 2013 as in 2014 the new euro6 emissions come into place and these buses will cost quite a bit more money.
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 06:53:49 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Is that the nutty fruitcake Boris Johnson bus - allegedly TfL t place an order for 600 soon. Someone should do an FOI request to see how much public money has been expended on that (beyond the cost of buying normal buses) - looks like an updated 1963 Park Royal Fleetline body to me!!
The initial order for 8 was expensive because it included all the development and design costs. The production run should only cost about the same as other hybrid buses. After being able to have a close look at LT3 at the NEC this week I was well impressed with the general layout
Quote from: Tony on November 10, 2012, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 06:53:49 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Is that the nutty fruitcake Boris Johnson bus - allegedly TfL t place an order for 600 soon. Someone should do an FOI request to see how much public money has been expended on that (beyond the cost of buying normal buses) - looks like an updated 1963 Park Royal Fleetline body to me!!
The initial order for 8 was expensive because it included all the development and design costs. The production run should only cost about the same as other hybrid buses. After being able to have a close look at LT3 at the NEC this week I was well impressed with the general layout
The look is not bad (although they look extremely long), I would agree, but the big issue for me is what on earth was the point? I know there was a political imperative re open platform rear entrance buses, but at a time of austerity the idea that a publicly funded organisation should expend money on something as extravagent is extraordinary - nearly as bad as the Routemaster itself in the 50s.
One appears in the new James Bond film (as the equivalent of a film extra - parked in Whitehall)!!!
I hope Wright keep the same body design as it certainly looks smart and distinctive. Alexander Dennis is also redesigning its Enviro 400,http://www.busesmag.com/view_news.asp?ID=5421, with a new design body.
I managed rides on two Borismasters on London route 38 recently. They are very competent buses with quick, smooth and quiet acceleration, and excellent build quality. Just two down points for me. (1) The upstairs windows are shallow- this combined with solid panels at the top of the staircase and the red-purple seating made the upper deck a bit gloomy. (2) The moment after I jumped off the rear platform at traffic lights, the bus pulled away quickly - an accident waiting to happen?
My guess is that Wrightbus would be pleasantly surprised if anyone other than Transport for London bought any - even without a rear platform. But I would hope that the best technical developments will be incorporated in a more mainstream design.
If new buses are delivered for the Sutton Lines then may be some geminis will go to WB but some of the toothpaste enviro 400 could go to Pensnett to upgrade some service to double decker operation, as people keep mentioning on here that the 246 needs double deckers.
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
The Wright what?
Link? Photo?
Quote from: nx4737 on November 10, 2012, 08:39:38 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
The B7RLE is being discontinued next year I think or maybe 2014. Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders? And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
The Wright what?
Link? Photo?
Not yet, Wrights are allegedly developing it at the moment
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Tony on November 10, 2012, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 06:53:49 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Is that the nutty fruitcake Boris Johnson bus - allegedly TfL t place an order for 600 soon. Someone should do an FOI request to see how much public money has been expended on that (beyond the cost of buying normal buses) - looks like an updated 1963 Park Royal Fleetline body to me!!
The initial order for 8 was expensive because it included all the development and design costs. The production run should only cost about the same as other hybrid buses. After being able to have a close look at LT3 at the NEC this week I was well impressed with the general layout
The look is not bad (although they look extremely long), I would agree, but the big issue for me is what on earth was the point? I know there was a political imperative re open platform rear entrance buses, but at a time of austerity the idea that a publicly funded organisation should expend money on something as extravagent is extraordinary - nearly as bad as the Routemaster itself in the 50s.
One appears in the new James Bond film (as the equivalent of a film extra - parked in Whitehall)!!!
By buying the buses themselves and giving them to the winning bidder for the routes at a minimum rental will bring the costs of the tenders for the routes considerably as the operators will not have to include the price of the vehicles in the bid. Most operators put a high proportion of the cost of the vehicles into a 7 year tender bid because of the low resale price of ex London buses on the open market.
By guaranteeing a 15 year life for the NBFL, and getting economies of scale in the price by ordering 600 in one go it wouldn't surprise me if NBFL doesn't actually save money for TfL against standard bids using hybrid buses.
I would say the 50 is a very good contender for new buses with added extras get the other operators off there
Quote from: Ash on November 10, 2012, 08:26:51 PM
If new buses are delivered for the Sutton Lines then may be some geminis will go to WB but some of the toothpaste enviro 400 could go to Pensnett to upgrade some service to double decker operation, as people keep mentioning on here that the 246 needs double deckers.
The 246 would certainly benefit from double deckers as would the X96 (or a frequency increase at least retaining the current single deckers)
Quote from: richie on November 10, 2012, 09:39:35 PM
I would say the 50 is a very good contender for new buses with added extras get the other operators off there
I'm thinking Hybrids would be ideal for the 50, NX could bid from the latest Greenbus fund 4 just announced. A few on the forum have suggested the outer circle for hybirds, but I think NX would be extremely lucky to receive funding for circa 45 hybrids in one hit
I'm sure somebody said the Omnicity deckers had been disocntinued now? despite rumours of more being ordered for the sutton lines?
Quote from: BU07 LGO on November 11, 2012, 01:22:41 AM
I'm sure somebody said the Omnicity deckers had been disocntinued now? despite rumours of more being ordered for the sutton lines?
The Scania website says that the Omnicity is still available in both double decker and articulated versions
Quote from: Tony on November 10, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Tony on November 10, 2012, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: don on November 10, 2012, 06:53:49 PM
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
And the new Wright / Volvo 'Streets Ahead' double decker.
Is that the nutty fruitcake Boris Johnson bus - allegedly TfL t place an order for 600 soon. Someone should do an FOI request to see how much public money has been expended on that (beyond the cost of buying normal buses) - looks like an updated 1963 Park Royal Fleetline body to me!!
The initial order for 8 was expensive because it included all the development and design costs. The production run should only cost about the same as other hybrid buses. After being able to have a close look at LT3 at the NEC this week I was well impressed with the general layout
The look is not bad (although they look extremely long), I would agree, but the big issue for me is what on earth was the point? I know there was a political imperative re open platform rear entrance buses, but at a time of austerity the idea that a publicly funded organisation should expend money on something as extravagent is extraordinary - nearly as bad as the Routemaster itself in the 50s.
One appears in the new James Bond film (as the equivalent of a film extra - parked in Whitehall)!!!
By buying the buses themselves and giving them to the winning bidder for the routes at a minimum rental will bring the costs of the tenders for the routes considerably as the operators will not have to include the price of the vehicles in the bid. Most operators put a high proportion of the cost of the vehicles into a 7 year tender bid because of the low resale price of ex London buses on the open market.
By guaranteeing a 15 year life for the NBFL, and getting economies of scale in the price by ordering 600 in one go it wouldn't surprise me if NBFL doesn't actually save money for TfL against standard bids using hybrid buses.
It's an interesting concept. I'm not sure how the economics stack up - TfL will have had to fund the purchase of the buses (thus indirectly adding a cost to the overall buses operation, if not an individual route or group of routes); I suspect the low resale value of normal London buses is caused by the volume involved and the quirkiness of TfL's specs and the need to build in 'standardisation' costs (removing the centre door etc etc) in order to sell them; someone will also have to fund the maintenance for overhauls/refurbs and depreciation costs of the LT - and there's no guarantee these vehicles will be reliable or even cost effective against normal vehicles in long term service - it all seems a bit strange for a publicly funded authority to be doing this. And to operate with the rear door in use requires a conductor/guard (thus increasing operating costs). It sounds like a massive gamble to me, and one wonders whether the arrangements in place are the only way it is possible to deliver what the mayor has promised.
The biggest worry is that back in the late 90s, a cursory glance at a GIS map of London plotting bus passenger injuries simply highlighted all the Routemaster routes - yes they were that dangerous in comparison (well everyone knew that, which is why the rest of the world moved away from open platforms decades before).
Some might say the whole thing is barking mad.
For bus enthusiasts it's great to have a new vehicle type to see - albeit in this case it looks a bit like an updated 60s bus body in concept (with those horrible deep upper panels and shallow upstairs windows - I read that this was a logic which Heatherwick pursued on the basis no-one will be standing upstairs??!!!), with an updated Metroplitan concept windscreen and an NS inspired rear end! I was trying to picture one in NXWM livery - I can't imagine it in anything but red at the moment.
I really would like to see NXWM have some Citaros.
Quote from: Gareth on November 10, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
Maybe some new B8RLE's in future orders?
The new chassis will be a 5 litre B5RLE, as confirmed by Volvo. Seems small, but what with the Volvo B5TL replacing the B9TL, a 5 litre engine has been developed to beat the Euro 6 emissions.
So all in all, the new chassis line ups are as follows:
Volvo B9TL (2 axle) replaced by Volvo B5TL.
Volvo B7RLE replaced by Volvo B5RLE.
Volvo B9TL (3 axle) replaced by Volvo B8TL.
The article regarding the new engines can be found here:
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/global/en-gb/newsmedia/pressreleases/_layouts/CWP.Internet.VolvoCom/NewsItem.aspx?News.ItemId=130573&News.Language=en-gb
Quote from: Winston on November 11, 2012, 12:11:48 AM
but I think NX would be extremely lucky to receive funding for circa 45 hybrids in one hit
Yeah that's true but think of the publicity NX would get. The longest running urban bus route, and one of the most fuel efficient?
I would imagine if it was to occur, it'd feature investment by Centro as well.
The 50 is an excellent candidate for Hybrids. I've suggested it in the past due to it's stop start traffic along the whole route.
"It's an interesting concept. I'm not sure how the economics stack up - TfL will have had to fund the purchase of the buses (thus indirectly adding a cost to the overall buses operation, if not an individual route or group of routes); I suspect the low resale value of normal London buses is caused by the volume involved and the quirkiness of TfL's specs and the need to build in 'standardisation' costs (removing the centre door etc etc) in order to sell them; someone will also have to fund the maintenance for overhauls/refurbs and depreciation costs of the LT - and there's no guarantee these vehicles will be reliable or even cost effective against normal vehicles in long term service - it all seems a bit strange for a publicly funded authority to be doing this"
TfL already funds all these, it is just at the moment they are included in the bid prices operators submit.
The London system is basically TfL pays all the costs of a route and takes all the revenue with the operator taking a risk that it has got its prices correct and taking a small profit for themselves. I see no difference whether TfL funds the costs of the vehicles up front or through bid prices
Quote from: Tony on November 11, 2012, 09:48:27 AM
TfL already funds all these, it is just at the moment they are included in the bid prices operators submit.
The London system is basically TfL pays all the costs of a route and takes all the revenue with the operator taking a risk that it has got its prices correct and taking a small profit for themselves. I see no difference whether TfL funds the costs of the vehicles up front or through bid prices
Yes I agree - however in this instance the public authority is taking all of the risk with vehicle costs, by specifying its own vehicle, which has been developed to meet a political, not a commercial imperative. I know what I'd think if I paid my council tax in London! I think it's a big risk. The bus does look distinctive and very smart, but then so does an Eclipse Gemini, Enviro 400 etc etc and barring the lack of an open rear door, I'm not too sure why these vehicles don't meet the implied needs of TfL.
Quote from: don on November 11, 2012, 01:36:54 PM
Quote from: Tony on November 11, 2012, 09:48:27 AM
TfL already funds all these, it is just at the moment they are included in the bid prices operators submit.
The London system is basically TfL pays all the costs of a route and takes all the revenue with the operator taking a risk that it has got its prices correct and taking a small profit for themselves. I see no difference whether TfL funds the costs of the vehicles up front or through bid prices
Yes I agree - however in this instance the public authority is taking all of the risk with vehicle costs, by specifying its own vehicle, which has been developed to meet a political, not a commercial imperative. I know what I'd think if I paid my council tax in London! I think it's a big risk. The bus does look distinctive and very smart, but then so does an Eclipse Gemini, Enviro 400 etc etc and barring the lack of an open rear door, I'm not too sure why these vehicles don't meet the implied needs of TfL.
The other useful thing it will do is stop lots of other places around the country getting dumped with knackered non-standard London Cast-offs. We are lucky around here with only a few independant second hand purchases, but have a look at Glasgow's current fleet.
When operators like First get stuck with 7 year old buses and no London route to run them on they send buses with only 19 seats downstairs to work in inappropriate places! Hopefully the NBFL will live the full 15 year life TfL say it will, then get sold off around the world as tourist attractions like RTs and RMs were
Quote from: Michael on November 11, 2012, 06:27:36 AM
Quote from: Winston on November 11, 2012, 12:11:48 AM
but I think NX would be extremely lucky to receive funding for circa 45 hybrids in one hit
Yeah that's true but think of the publicity NX would get. The longest running urban bus route, and one of the most fuel efficient?
I would imagine if it was to occur, it'd feature investment by Centro as well.
The 50 is an excellent candidate for Hybrids. I've suggested it in the past due to it's stop start traffic along the whole route.
I agree entirely about what you're saying re: the outer circle, but I just can't see Birmingham being awarded that amount of money to subsidise the purchase of a sufficient quantity of hybrids to fully convert the route from one round of funding. Stagecoach Manchester got funding for 40 for the 192, but Birmingham seems to take second place to Manchester all the time. I guess it will also depend on what NX bid for as well.....
Quote from: Peter123 on November 10, 2012, 06:57:47 PM
No, the streets ahead bus isnt the new LT class bus. The tfl order has been confirmed btw. And you may find that nxwm will want to order lots of buses in 2013 or at least for them to be built in 2013 as in 2014 the new euro6 emissions come into place and these buses will cost quite a bit more money.
Peter123,
That's a good call,
Euro 6 emissions will apply for anything new ordered after 31st Dec 2013, so as you say either NX may opt to order & take delivery of more than normal Euro 5 vehicles during the course of 2013, or they may choose to place orders early for 2014 at Euro 5 spec to beat the introduction of Euro 6 & higher anticipated purchase costs, even more so if NXWM's current standard single decker i.e. B7RLE is being replaced by a new model.
The quantity of further new vehicle intakes may also be dictated by how much passenger growth NXWM have experienced following the introduction of new vehicles on to routes......
Quote from: Winston on November 11, 2012, 05:58:29 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on November 10, 2012, 06:57:47 PM
No, the streets ahead bus isnt the new LT class bus. The tfl order has been confirmed btw. And you may find that nxwm will want to order lots of buses in 2013 or at least for them to be built in 2013 as in 2014 the new euro6 emissions come into place and these buses will cost quite a bit more money.
Peter123,
That's a good call,
Euro 6 emissions will apply for anything new ordered after 31st Dec 2013, so as you say either NX may opt to order & take delivery of more than normal Euro 5 vehicles during the course of 2013, or they may choose to place orders early for 2014 at Euro 5 spec to beat the introduction of Euro 6 & higher anticipated purchase costs, even more so if NXWM's current standard single decker i.e. B7RLE is being replaced by a new model.
The quantity of further new vehicle intakes may also be dictated by how much passenger growth NXWM have experienced following the introduction of new vehicles on to routes......
I agree. NXWM may choose to save money and stock up on euro 5 buses like Nottingham have been doing recently.Eventually, though, they will have to face up to the numbers of deckers needing to be replaced.
Quote from: Peter123 on November 11, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 11, 2012, 05:58:29 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on November 10, 2012, 06:57:47 PM
No, the streets ahead bus isnt the new LT class bus. The tfl order has been confirmed btw. And you may find that nxwm will want to order lots of buses in 2013 or at least for them to be built in 2013 as in 2014 the new euro6 emissions come into place and these buses will cost quite a bit more money.
Peter123,
That's a good call,
Euro 6 emissions will apply for anything new ordered after 31st Dec 2013, so as you say either NX may opt to order & take delivery of more than normal Euro 5 vehicles during the course of 2013, or they may choose to place orders early for 2014 at Euro 5 spec to beat the introduction of Euro 6 & higher anticipated purchase costs, even more so if NXWM's current standard single decker i.e. B7RLE is being replaced by a new model.
The quantity of further new vehicle intakes may also be dictated by how much passenger growth NXWM have experienced following the introduction of new vehicles on to routes......
I agree. NXWM may choose to save money and stock up on euro 5 buses like Nottingham have been doing recently.Eventually, though, they will have to face up to the numbers of deckers needing to be replaced.
The majority of NXWM's/NXD's double deck fleet date from 1999-2004, during that period including the initial Spectra's (4001 & 4002) makes a total intake of some 699 new double deckers, If those come due for replacement over a similar number of years, no less than 140 new double deckers would need to be delivered each and every year over a five year period. Obviously those 54 reg Tridents that have been/are to be re-engined will have extended lives but at present the order is for around 30. I suspect even if 2013 NX orders do turn out to be for the majority double deckers few if any double deckers would be replaced in favour of increasing the proportion of double deckers in the fleet and seeing off further older single deckers / increasing capacity on some routes
I really hate those Scania single deckers (the one with the weird double seating arrangement behind the cab)... Big ups to the Wrights used on the 120!!!! They were the BEST replacement for the Mercs bar none.
"The majority of NXWM's/NXD's double deck fleet date from 1999-2004, during that period including the initial Spectra's (4001 & 4002) makes a total intake of some 699 new double deckers, If those come due for replacement over a similar number of years, no less than 140 new double deckers would need to be delivered each and every year over a five year period. Obviously those 54 reg Tridents that have been/are to be re-engined will have extended lives but at present the order is for around 30. I suspect even if 2013 NX orders do turn out to be for the majority double deckers few if any double deckers would be replaced in favour of increasing the proportion of double deckers in the fleet and seeing off further older single deckers / increasing capacity on some routes"
Winston - this is correct except it's across six years (1999-2004), equating to 116.5 per annum. My guess is these won't fall due for replacement until 2014-5, after the 130 per annum required to replace the existing B10L, B6LE and Mercs (although no doubt there'll be an overlap).
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 15, 2012, 03:49:56 AM
I really hate those Scania single deckers (the one with the weird double seating arrangement behind the cab)... Big ups to the Wrights used on the 120!!!! They were the BEST replacement for the Mercs bar none.
I don't disagree with this - have you seen some of the London single deckers - seats dotted here there and everywhere (especially those used on the 507 - Citaros I think?). No doubt caused partially by the need to accomodate some of the standard TfL specs though.
Quote from: don on November 15, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
"The majority of NXWM's/NXD's double deck fleet date from 1999-2004, during that period including the initial Spectra's (4001 & 4002) makes a total intake of some 699 new double deckers, If those come due for replacement over a similar number of years, no less than 140 new double deckers would need to be delivered each and every year over a five year period. Obviously those 54 reg Tridents that have been/are to be re-engined will have extended lives but at present the order is for around 30. I suspect even if 2013 NX orders do turn out to be for the majority double deckers few if any double deckers would be replaced in favour of increasing the proportion of double deckers in the fleet and seeing off further older single deckers / increasing capacity on some routes"
Winston - this is correct except it's across six years (1999-2004), equating to 116.5 per annum. My guess is these won't fall due for replacement until 2014-5, after the 130 per annum required to replace the existing B10L, B6LE and Mercs (although no doubt there'll be an overlap).
Don,
1999-2004 is over a 5 year period as follows:
1999-2000 (1 year)
2000-2001 (2 years)
2001-2002 (3 years)
2002-2003 (4 years)
2003-2004 (5 years)
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 15, 2012, 03:49:56 AM
I really hate those Scania single deckers (the one with the weird double seating arrangement behind the cab)... Big ups to the Wrights used on the 120!!!! They were the BEST replacement for the Mercs bar none.
If you mean the scania omnilinks i have to disagree, yes they have their faults from a passengers perspective but so do the wrights eclipses. From experience I have never seen a scania omnilink with a broken display compared to the younger eclipses I have seen many especially the ones on the 120, which is handy when you running for a bus but you dont have a clue which one it is as it has a blank rear blind thats faulty. The omnilinks have more character from an enthusiasts point of view engine noises etc where the eclipses are quite boring. Also the omnilinks are quite quick I was on one on the 4 yesterday yes the driver might have been a bit late but the bus could move. Not being one sided the omnilinks have their faults like having terrible headroom at the back when leaving the bus hence the dents that seem to be on the ceiling where I havent been the only one to hit my head. You have to wait for the door to fully close as the brakes stop on and the bus cant move and their not the best in terms of room for you legs especially if your tall. Overall i prefer the first series of eclipses Walsall have but to be honest prefer the mercs out of all the single deckers NXWM have and hopefully be in service for a few more years to come.
You can't blame the faulty destinations on the model of bus, neither Volvo or scania make them I believe Hanover supply the destination equipment in all NXWM buses.
It's probably more likely that whoever programmed the displays for the Pensnett Urban 2s has either 'forgot' to add in the information for the rear sign, or incorrectly formatted it so it doesn't display, as all the rear displays work on the Acocks Green and Birmingham Central Urban 2s which are all from the same batch.
The Urban 2 B7RLEs are nice buses to travel on, but I feel that the lack of handrails in the standing area makes them awkward for passengers to safely move through this area when boarding/alighting, especially when there are other people standing. The capacity notice states that 52 standing passengers are permitted, which I feel is a little ambitious, considering the Omnilinks have a standing capacity of 32.
The only faults that the Omnilinks have, from a passengers point of view, is that they can feel a little cramped, and there is little headroom at the rear.
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Quote from: Stu on November 15, 2012, 08:16:56 PM
It's probably more likely that whoever programmed the displays for the Pensnett Urban 2s has either 'forgot' to add in the information for the rear sign, or incorrectly formatted it so it doesn't display, as all the rear displays work on the Acocks Green and Birmingham Central Urban 2s which are all from the same batch.
The Urban 2 B7RLEs are nice buses to travel on, but I feel that the lack of handrails in the standing area makes them awkward for passengers to safely move through this area when boarding/alighting, especially when there are other people standing. The capacity notice states that 52 standing passengers are permitted, which I feel is a little ambitious, considering the Omnilinks have a standing capacity of 32.
The only faults that the Omnilinks have, from a passengers point of view, is that they can feel a little cramped, and there is little headroom at the rear.
And the fact that the plastic used to make much of the interior the bus looks like it is of the type used to make plastic plates or tictac boxes.
pity they cant take out a row of seats because some seats towards the rear of the omnilinks are too tight if you are tall with long legs like me and have to take up two seats because i cant close my legs without discomfort!!. the best seats are the ones by the emergency exit.you can actually open a newspaper and read it.
bring back the metros for their seating....
The best room for seating I think in terms of newer single deckers is the seating on the centro's diamond have very spacious especially the royale diamond centro's the worst were the mcv's diamond once had.
bagsy the drivers seat!! :D
Quote from: Michael on November 15, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Absolutely totally agree with this. As a passenger, that's all that's important for me and I note even some of the drivers take advantage of the comfort of the driver's seat- one of them looked so laid back he could have been 50Cent riding around in his pimp mobile. Yo.
I liked the Mercs though because they had a very logical layout and it seems that the Wrights have followed this pattern. It really simply works, whereas the Omnilinks look a little be all over the place. I have size XL legs, and I can assure you the Wrights 'Eclipse' the Omnilinks for comfort EVERY time.
The best single decked buses though? What were those ones that were used on the Black Diamond 9?... Proper nice with ace seats and really quiet running gear!!!
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 16, 2012, 02:37:09 AM
Quote from: Michael on November 15, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Absolutely totally agree with this. As a passenger, that's all that's important for me and I note even some of the drivers take advantage of the comfort of the driver's seat- one of them looked so laid back he could have been 50Cent riding around in his pimp mobile. Yo.
I liked the Mercs though because they had a very logical layout and it seems that the Wrights have followed this pattern. It really simply works, whereas the Omnilinks look a little be all over the place. I have size XL legs, and I can assure you the Wrights 'Eclipse' the Omnilinks for comfort EVERY time.
The best single decked buses though? What were those ones that were used on the Black Diamond 9?... Proper nice with ace seats and really quiet running gear!!!
These? http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/6066962328/
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 16, 2012, 02:37:09 AM
Quote from: Michael on November 15, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Absolutely totally agree with this. As a passenger, that's all that's important for me and I note even some of the drivers take advantage of the comfort of the driver's seat- one of them looked so laid back he could have been 50Cent riding around in his pimp mobile. Yo.
I liked the Mercs though because they had a very logical layout and it seems that the Wrights have followed this pattern. It really simply works, whereas the Omnilinks look a little be all over the place. I have size XL legs, and I can assure you the Wrights 'Eclipse' the Omnilinks for comfort EVERY time.
The best single decked buses though? What were those ones that were used on the Black Diamond 9?... Proper nice with ace seats and really quiet running gear!!!
Which have exactly the same running gear / Chassis as the Urban Eclipse!
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2012, 06:33:15 AM
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 16, 2012, 02:37:09 AM
Quote from: Michael on November 15, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Absolutely totally agree with this. As a passenger, that's all that's important for me and I note even some of the drivers take advantage of the comfort of the driver's seat- one of them looked so laid back he could have been 50Cent riding around in his pimp mobile. Yo.
I liked the Mercs though because they had a very logical layout and it seems that the Wrights have followed this pattern. It really simply works, whereas the Omnilinks look a little be all over the place. I have size XL legs, and I can assure you the Wrights 'Eclipse' the Omnilinks for comfort EVERY time.
The best single decked buses though? What were those ones that were used on the Black Diamond 9?... Proper nice with ace seats and really quiet running gear!!!
Which have exactly the same running gear / Chassis as the Urban Eclipse!
Lol - must be psycho-cematic - darker coloured vehicle = quieter!! ;)
"Don,
1999-2004 is over a 5 year period as follows:
1999-2000 (1 year)
2000-2001 (2 years)
2001-2002 (3 years)
2002-2003 (4 years)
2003-2004 (5 years)"
Not wishing to bang on about this but the fact is the latter part of the 699 double deckers were delivered in the second half of 2004, with the last few in early 2005. To make this a bit clearer, assuming a 15 yr life, these would not be due for replacement until mid 2019 to early 2020. The earliest (1999-2000 vehicles) would fall due in 2014-2015.
However, there are variations (for instance around 130 vehicles were delivered in 2001), whilst there is overlap with some of the later Mercs and Presidents, and also the 20 odd Bendibuses with the double deckers. However, a maximum rate of replacement varying between 100 - 130 vehicles per annum over the next 7.5 to 8 yrs would maintain a max age of 15 yrs and an even profile across the fleet or thereabouts!
Quote from: don on November 16, 2012, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2012, 06:33:15 AM
Quote from: Typhoon2000 on November 16, 2012, 02:37:09 AM
Quote from: Michael on November 15, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
In terms of comfort, the Wright Eclipses' smash the Scania Omnilinks' out of the sky. The 37 is a good example to see the difference as both vehicle types are used. The Wright Eclipses' offer a smooth ride and are more generous with legroom/headroom. Speed wise, they are capable of the same speed, although I'm guessing the ECU's on the Wright Eclipses are set up in a way that offers more miles per gallon, hence the lag of high revving, thus less pickup.
What you must be aware of is what the Eclipses' lack in speed, they make up for when the doors open and close.
Absolutely totally agree with this. As a passenger, that's all that's important for me and I note even some of the drivers take advantage of the comfort of the driver's seat- one of them looked so laid back he could have been 50Cent riding around in his pimp mobile. Yo.
I liked the Mercs though because they had a very logical layout and it seems that the Wrights have followed this pattern. It really simply works, whereas the Omnilinks look a little be all over the place. I have size XL legs, and I can assure you the Wrights 'Eclipse' the Omnilinks for comfort EVERY time.
The best single decked buses though? What were those ones that were used on the Black Diamond 9?... Proper nice with ace seats and really quiet running gear!!!
Which have exactly the same running gear / Chassis as the Urban Eclipse!
Lol - must be psycho-cematic - darker coloured vehicle = quieter!! ;)
"Don,
1999-2004 is over a 5 year period as follows:
1999-2000 (1 year)
2000-2001 (2 years)
2001-2002 (3 years)
2002-2003 (4 years)
2003-2004 (5 years)"
Not wishing to bang on about this but the fact is the latter part of the 699 double deckers were delivered in the second half of 2004, with the last few in early 2005. To make this a bit clearer, assuming a 15 yr life, these would not be due for replacement until mid 2019 to early 2020. The earliest (1999-2000 vehicles) would fall due in 2014-2015.
However, there are variations (for instance around 130 vehicles were delivered in 2001), whilst there is overlap with some of the later Mercs and Presidents, and also the 20 odd Bendibuses with the double deckers. However, a maximum rate of replacement varying between 100 - 130 vehicles per annum over the next 7.5 to 8 yrs would maintain a max age of 15 yrs and an even profile across the fleet or thereabouts!
Don,
you're quite right the quantities go up to 2005 deliveries, so it should have said 1999-2005 (i.e. approx 6 year period)
Anyone have any thoughts on what, if anything, NX might consider purchasing in 2013, apart from the pending delivery of hybrids. Any chance they may hold fire to assess some of the 'new' vehicles being developed by the various bus builders?
Quote from: RW on December 11, 2012, 08:47:51 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on what, if anything, NX might consider purchasing in 2013, apart from the pending delivery of hybrids. Any chance they may hold fire to assess some of the 'new' vehicles being developed by the various bus builders?
I would have though that they may opt to order greater numbers of Euro 5 vehicles before the Euro 6 requirement comes in to force, the technology to meet Euro 6 requirement is set to make new buses more expensive.
As regards NX orders, I would have thought that the majority would need to be new double deckers after this years large intake of single deckers (B7RLE's & Enviro 200's due now)
3 axel enviro 400s for the 9 and a load of mcv b7s
Quote from: karl724223 on December 11, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
3 axel enviro 400s for the 9 and a load of mcv b7s
Karl,
I take it you prefer the MCV/B7RLE to the Wright bodied examples
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2012, 01:13:00 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on December 11, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
3 axel enviro 400s for the 9 and a load of mcv b7s
Karl,
I take it you prefer the MCV/B7RLE to the Wright bodied examples
Someone has to...
not much difference from a driving point of view driving wise mcv b7 doesnt rattle as much as a volvo b7
Quote from: karl724223 on December 11, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
3 axel enviro 400s for the 9 and a load of mcv b7s
3 axle Envrios are 500s and I doubt you'll ever see any in the West Midlands. They're mostly produced for Hong Kong and I don't see them being up NX's street. They're welcome to buy more MOVe though, love the look of those. ;D
QuoteNational Express West Midlands and 1532 : YJ61OBF
BX61LKF and BX61LKU : Volvo B7RLE / Wright Eclipse 2's are the last of the batch 2001 to 2029 to be delivered, both noted in Heysham Docks sunday.
Also in was BX61LHU and BX61LHV : Volvo B5LH / Wright Eclipse Gemini 2's.
http://61reg.blogspot.co.uk/2011_12_01_archive.html
Quote from: Wolfman on December 13, 2012, 01:49:55 AM
QuoteNational Express West Midlands and 1532 : YJ61OBF
BX61LKF and BX61LKU : Volvo B7RLE / Wright Eclipse 2's are the last of the batch 2001 to 2029 to be delivered, both noted in Heysham Docks sunday.
Also in was BX61LHU and BX61LHV : Volvo B5LH / Wright Eclipse Gemini 2's.
http://61reg.blogspot.co.uk/2011_12_01_archive.html
I think you're a year behind the rest of us there :-/
whoops.
well i was half asleep while online this morning.
Hmmm look at whats been spotted amongst our new megabuses at plaxtons :-)
Someone has posted on Facebook a picture of a nearly finished B5L/Gemini Hybrid at the Wrights factory
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=302079229904507&set=a.104050816374017.7863.100003072975336&type=1&theater
not sure if that link will work for non-facebook users
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2012, 10:40:19 PM
Someone has posted on Facebook a picture of a nearly finished B5L/Gemini Hybrid at the Wrights factory
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=302079229904507&set=a.104050816374017.7863.100003072975336&type=1&theater
not sure if that link will work for non-facebook users
Note the message on the upstairs window!!
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2012, 10:40:19 PM
Someone has posted on Facebook a picture of a nearly finished B5L/Gemini Hybrid at the Wrights factory
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=302079229904507&set=a.104050816374017.7863.100003072975336&type=1&theater
not sure if that link will work for non-facebook users
It looks as though the B5L Hybrids may be delivered in Jan after all, but the E400H a couple of months behind.
Did anyone notice the comment about a white Streetlite with NX on the blinds being sighted as well? I'm not aware of any being due, there was talk of some being due for Dundee a while back but all seemed to have gone quiet after they tried the demonstrator for a while
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2012, 10:40:19 PM
Someone has posted on Facebook a picture of a nearly finished B5L/Gemini Hybrid at the Wrights factory
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=302079229904507&set=a.104050816374017.7863.100003072975336&type=1&theater
not sure if that link will work for non-facebook users
Nope,
Can somebody get a direct link to the image or reupload it to another site please?
Quote from: Michael on December 15, 2012, 04:59:07 AM
Nope,
Can somebody get a direct link to the image or reupload it to another site please?
Is this any good Michael
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/18700_302079229904507_1195271663_n.jpg
That works John, thanks. Wonder if this batch will keep black window surrounds once painted. They certainly look better that way, although still not as smart as the Go North East and First examples with bonded glazing.
Any chance of nx ordering some MCV DD103, I've took a liking to them now.
Quote from: A1991 on January 27, 2013, 10:12:18 AM
Any chance of nx ordering some MCV DD103, I've took a liking to them now.
Doubt it, as it currently stands it's 60 more ADL E400's, I would have thought that NX may order another smaller batch of B7RLE to continue replacement of elderly single deckers etc
Sounds as thought any more Scania double deckers are now unlikely, I'd still like NX to buy a batch of B9TL/Wrignt Gemini for AG (Outer Circle) PB (Sutton Lines) or WB (Dudley Rd/Soho Rd services)
just a thought as we now have enviro 200s lwb they could order enviro 200 swb models to replace solos just like the hotel hoppers or even move some up to nxwm depending on how many they wanted
Quote from: karl724223 on January 27, 2013, 07:01:18 PM
just a thought as we now have enviro 200s lwb they could order enviro 200 swb models to replace solos just like the hotel hoppers or even move some up to nxwm depending on how many they wanted
The way things are going the B6LE's & possibly some ALX200's displaced from WB will see off the remaining Solos.
The Hotel Hoppa Enviros only seat 22 due to the airport luggage racks & also have aircon pods, would need converting if they ever came up to NXWM
Quote from: Winston on January 27, 2013, 07:25:32 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on January 27, 2013, 07:01:18 PM
just a thought as we now have enviro 200s lwb they could order enviro 200 swb models to replace solos just like the hotel hoppers or even move some up to nxwm depending on how many they wanted
The way things are going the B6LE's & possibly some ALX200's displaced from WB will see off the remaining Solos.
The Hotel Hoppa Enviros only seat 22 due to the airport luggage racks & also have aircon pods, would need converting if they ever came up to NXWM
I would doubt the alx200 would see further use if they were to be withdrawn only 2 are in NXWM livery and only 3601 has had a recent refurb. There not bad buses rarely seem to break down and get used on most WB local services so I would think a few b6le's would be withdrawn ahead of these as there only 13 years old and ideal for quite a few WB routes.
I know they Hybrids are in the process of being delivered. When will that be? It don't look like itll arrive in Wolves on Jan as promised.
Quote from: Wolfman on January 28, 2013, 08:27:47 PM
I know they Hybrids are in the process of being delivered. When will that be? It don't look like itll arrive in Wolves on Jan as promised.
The ADL E400H at WN aren't due until third week of March
The Volvo B5LH may arrive sooner as one was photographed nearing completion in Dec
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
I thought it was the other way around with WN recieving the ADL E400H, and all the Volvo's going to BC
Thought PL was getting 21 all of the same type VDL and the Volvos to BC Hybrids of course.
Quote from: Discodave on February 01, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
Thought PL was getting 21 all of the same type VDL and the Volvos to BC Hybrids of course.
Plans have changed!
Typical PL gets the short end of the stick as I had said before would be suprised if the hybrids go to PL see its all Birmingham. Always happens when an emission zone comes in or quality agreements other areas suffer PL has has no new deckers for ages and run the oldest LEZ buses into Brum. The 126 was the last to get rid of Metros.
What are you whining about now? Rob already stated:
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
So WN ARE getting new hybrids, its just which ones they're getting has changed.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
Plan A seemed to be the far more sensible option of concentrating the two different types of Hybrids at BC (Volvo B5LH) & WN (E400H) respectively.
At least WN are still getting the Hybrids....
the maths still dont work out supposed to be 21 now 9. only 12 short
Quote from: mranon on February 01, 2013, 12:31:58 PM
the maths still dont work out supposed to be 21 now 9. only 12 short
Only 12 short until March.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Discodave on February 01, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
Thought PL was getting 21 all of the same type VDL and the Volvos to BC Hybrids of course.
Plans have changed!
Well i think it's only fair that WN get all new buses
About time PL had new deckers PL always are last like WB
Quote from: Stu on February 01, 2013, 12:36:24 PM
Quote from: mranon on February 01, 2013, 12:31:58 PM
the maths still dont work out supposed to be 21 now 9. only 12 short
Only 12 short until March.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 01, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Just had an update, 9 new Volvo B5LH to WN delivery beinging mid-feb.
12 new ADL E400H delivery mid-march as already posted.
i read again on computer and get it now so sorry! you are saying that ther plan for the volvos to goto bc in exchangel for the adl's from last year has changed. originally they were trying to have all one type at each garage adl wn, volvo bc? i misunderstood, and thought that it read that wn only getting 9 now so apologies
It's okay!
Maybe the exchange will happen once all the new hybrids have been delivered, or maybe both garages will have a mixture of both.
Let's get it straight. There never has been any plan by NXWM management for BC to get all of the Volvo hybrids and WN to get the E400H's. This was just an assumption made on this forum.
Quote from: Roy on February 01, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
Let's get it straight. There never has been any plan by NXWM management for BC to get all of the Volvo hybrids and WN to get the E400H's. This was just an assumption made on this forum.
I thought that the Express and Star had said that there will be 21 E400H heading to Wolverhampton for route 1.
From both a passenger and driver perspective, which garage has drawn the short straw?
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on February 01, 2013, 05:47:47 PM
I thought that the Express and Star had said that there will be 21 E400H heading to Wolverhampton for route 1.
From both a passenger and driver perspective, which garage has drawn the short straw?
The Express and Star wouldn't know what a E400H is. I think they said that the 1 would be operated using hybrid buses.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on February 01, 2013, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: Roy on February 01, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
Let's get it straight. There never has been any plan by NXWM management for BC to get all of the Volvo hybrids and WN to get the E400H's. This was just an assumption made on this forum.
I thought that the Express and Star had said that there will be 21 E400H heading to Wolverhampton for route 1.
From both a passenger and driver perspective, which garage has drawn the short straw?
Wouldn't it be sensible for WN just to have one type of Hybrid, then the mechanics and drivers only have one new bus type to get familiar with.
Quote from: Discodave on February 01, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
About time PL had new deckers PL always are last like WB
Pensnett always used to be last, how things have changed!
Quote from: Discodave on February 01, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
About time PL had new deckers PL always are last like WB
Give it a rest... Look at the state of Wolverhamptons fleet, you'll soon realize why they get nothing new!
I'd have to agree. Look at it from the company's point of view - why fork out loads of money putting brand new buses in areas where they regularly do get vandalised. I used to moan about the run down Tridents on the 14, until I actually thought about it and realised why send a brand new sparkly double decker down Alum Rock Road? :P
Quote from: Roy on February 01, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
Let's get it straight. There never has been any plan by NXWM management for BC to get all of the Volvo hybrids and WN to get the E400H's. This was just an assumption made on this forum.
This is correct, although probably a logical assumption based on the numbers of each type ordered.
But thinking about it, if NXWM are still evaluating both vehicle types, which presumably they must be if they are still buying both, it makes sense to have each type running on the same routes and under the same operating conditions to allow like for like comparisons. I don't know the 1 route too well but I'm not sure it can be quite as slow as the 22/23 in peak times, where buses can crawl at just a few miles an hour through Harborne, Edgbaston and down Broad Street. So maybe NXWM gets to compare each vehicle type on routes with slightly different charcteristics.
From a personal perspective I'll be glad if BC keeps its current 9 E400Hs. It's nice to have a bit of variety on your local route, and the B5LHs can struggle a bit capacity wise on the 22/23 at peak times - the extra 9 seats on the E400H can make a difference.
And eveyone's a winner because PL get 21 brand new buses (you did recently get a shed load of brand new B7RLEs you know)
Quote from: JB93 on February 01, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
I'd have to agree. Look at it from the company's point of view - why fork out loads of money putting brand new buses in areas where they regularly do get vandalised. I used to moan about the run down Tridents on the 14, until I actually thought about it and realised why send a brand new sparkly double decker down Alum Rock Road? :P
Was in Wolverhampton the other day and a couple of their B7RLE's looked as though they hadn't been washed for weeks.
Surely it doesn't take much to put a vehicle through the washer.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 01, 2013, 09:34:06 PM
Quote from: JB93 on February 01, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
I'd have to agree. Look at it from the company's point of view - why fork out loads of money putting brand new buses in areas where they regularly do get vandalised. I used to moan about the run down Tridents on the 14, until I actually thought about it and realised why send a brand new sparkly double decker down Alum Rock Road? :P
Was in Wolverhampton the other day and a couple of their B7RLE's looked as though they hadn't been washed for weeks.
Surely it doesn't take much to put a vehicle through the washer.
Hadn't been washed for weeks? don't think so. Most garages did miss a couple of days in the very cold weather for safety reasons, but a bus can get absolutely filthy in about two hours on a wet or slushy day in January
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 01, 2013, 09:34:06 PM
Quote from: JB93 on February 01, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
I'd have to agree. Look at it from the company's point of view - why fork out loads of money putting brand new buses in areas where they regularly do get vandalised. I used to moan about the run down Tridents on the 14, until I actually thought about it and realised why send a brand new sparkly double decker down Alum Rock Road? :P
Surely it doesn't take much to put a vehicle through the washer.
if the weathers too cold,some washers freezes over,meaning if a bus uses the water,it freezes up,bus carnt go out,they have to use other buses (IE older memebers of the fleet not normally out/smaller buses) then people have a good moan about that
plus a bus can get filthy within a hour so have you got any proof they havent been washed for weeks?
WB is the most neglected garage in terms of new buses recently, even the enviro 200's are being used at BC (new to BC 812-818 according to Tony's fleetlist) so won't be officially new to WB and apart from them the next newest bus is an 06 reg gemini. Similar to Wolverhampton an investment in new double deckers are needed for core Birmingham service such as the 74/75 at WB and may be the 126 at Wolverhampton.
Quote from: Ash on February 01, 2013, 09:48:26 PM
WB is the most neglected garage in terms of new buses recently, even the enviro 200's are being used at BC (new to BC 812-818 according to Tony's fleetlist) so won't be officially new to WB and apart from them the next newest bus is an 06 reg gemini. Similar to Wolverhampton an investment in new double deckers are needed for core Birmingham service such as the 74/75 at WB and may be the 126 at Wolverhampton.
Surely National Express must be considering what will replace Presidents & older Tridents, they are 13 years old this year, and have provided good service. but they can't carry on forever.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 01, 2013, 10:01:11 PM
Quote from: Ash on February 01, 2013, 09:48:26 PM
WB is the most neglected garage in terms of new buses recently, even the enviro 200's are being used at BC (new to BC 812-818 according to Tony's fleetlist) so won't be officially new to WB and apart from them the next newest bus is an 06 reg gemini. Similar to Wolverhampton an investment in new double deckers are needed for core Birmingham service such as the 74/75 at WB and may be the 126 at Wolverhampton.
Surely National Express must be considering what will replace Presidents & older Tridents, they are 13 years old this year, and have provided good service. but they can't carry on forever.
Do we think that at some point NXWM will start replacing unrefurbed tridents as opposed to refurbing them so they can stay around another couple of years.
I doubt any tridents will be withdrawn for a while, they are required for Birmingham routes, and they are the only type of double decker BC now have. There are other vehicles that will be withdrawn before tridents
Quote from: Shaun on February 01, 2013, 10:14:22 PM
I doubt any tridents will be withdrawn for a while, they are required for Birmingham routes, and they are the only type of double decker BC now have. There are other vehicles that will be withdrawn before tridents
Not to mention, that 13 years isn't that old & I doubt they are fully depreciated yet. The Spectra's will go first as they are non-standard & aren't the most reliable, but even those I don't reckon will be withdrawn for at least another 12 months
So we know which buses are going to WN but what are they replacing ?
Upgrade of single routes to deckers or are some deckers transferring elsewhere ?
Quote from: A1991 on February 02, 2013, 12:21:09 AM
So we know which buses are going to WN but what are they replacing ?
Upgrade of single routes to deckers or are some deckers transferring elsewhere ?
I would have thought that they may release some Tridents for transfer to other garages and also result in a cascade of vehicles at WN garage, where double deckers replace Mercs to increase capacity on one or two routes, some Mercs could be withdrawn & transferred out while further Mercs could be cascaded to displace the last 5 Excels for withdraw. Thus eliminating a vehicle type from WN
Quote from: Winston on February 02, 2013, 12:30:23 AM
Quote from: A1991 on February 02, 2013, 12:21:09 AM
So we know which buses are going to WN but what are they replacing ?
Upgrade of single routes to deckers or are some deckers transferring elsewhere ?
I would have thought that they may release some Tridents for transfer to other garages and also result in a cascade of vehicles at WN garage, where double deckers replace Mercs to increase capacity on one or two routes, some Mercs could be withdrawn & transferred out while further Mercs could be cascaded to displace the last 5 Excels for withdraw. Thus eliminating a vehicle type from WN
Fingers crossed for trident operation on the 246
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
At least its not PL's ones was on the 28 on a B6 and on cue ding ding ding and steam. Which garage have some come from well Pensnett or is it west brom either way they are all crap it was mentioned one had already been on a mansfield truck.
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
If they actually do get that many, that's the 246, 276 & x96 upgraded for the better bus agreement.
Quote from: A1991 on February 03, 2013, 12:43:08 AM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
If they actually do get that many, that's the 246, 276 & 246 upgraded for the better bus agreement.
I take it you meant 246, 276 & X96, I would think 30 double deckers could convert the 140 & 241 to double deckers as well plus possibly some 120 peak workings
Some presidents may be a good option for PE when the new double deckers arrive especially for services 246/276/X96 the one that have been refurbished for the 5 are excellent inside there just like new and a good job has been made of them.
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
Just wondering what you mean by a high mileage problem, are the current PE Enviro's being overworked then or something? As I know its a quite demanding route, and last Saturday night about 10 I got a 9 from Brum to Stourbridge and I don't think I've ever known a bus thrashed so much, it only took about 40 minutes if that.
And additionally I suppose they are 4 years old now and in the past the 9 had quite a turn around of new buses at BC, Spectra's, Presidents, Tridents and then the Enviro.
Quote from: Ash on February 03, 2013, 01:55:29 AM
Some presidents may be a good option for PE when the new double deckers arrive especially for services 246/276/X96 the one that have been refurbished for the 5 are excellent inside there just like new and a good job has been made of them.
I personally think Presidents or early Tridents are more likely if anything, there could be a quantity of say 10 x 07/57 Enviros from PB replaced on the Sutton Lines by new buses, these could supplement the 09 Enviros and bolster the double deckers that can work in to B'ham city centre.
I can't image that Pensnett will end up with 60 x Enviro 400s made up of 30 x 07/57 reg & 30 x 09 reg, B'ham garages haven't got that mnay newer generation double deckers. If the 50 is due new buses, I would have thought that YW would cascade the older Enviros within to upgrade one its own routes, YW next newest double deckers are the 52 reg Tridents some 10 years old.
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
Quote from: wilmotm on February 03, 2013, 09:03:19 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
Just wondering what you mean by a high mileage problem, are the current PE Enviro's being overworked then or something? As I know its a quite demanding route, and last Saturday night about 10 I got a 9 from Brum to Stourbridge and I don't think I've ever known a bus thrashed so much, it only took about 40 minutes if that.
And additionally I suppose they are 4 years old now and in the past the 9 had quite a turn around of new buses at BC, Spectra's, Presidents, Tridents and then the Enviro.
our enviros are out nearly 24hrs 7 days a week were putting to much yearly milage on them
Seems a bit unfair on PE when theyve been refurbing their enviros but im sure PE will be glad to potentially have a few more deckers.
PE could potentially gain the whole batch from 4718-4762 then-44 buses.
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
Oh I understand now...... that's not good for Pensnett, as Pensnett have spent a large portion of its maintenance budget having the 09 plate Enviros repainted & retrimmed.
The 07/57 Enviros from YW & PB will all need a fair bit of money spent on them bringing them up too scratch both internally & externally. It's not going to be good for passengers on the 9/141 either.
What is the benefit of swapping 09 plate buses for 07/57 plate buses? Surely the YW Enviros have been worked pretty hard on the 50 as it is, by moving them on to the intensive Hagley Road routes, this will work them harder still and they could potentially become more un-reliable & need extra money throwing at them mechanically.
If the 09 plate Enviros are clocking up that many miles per year, surely it would be better policy to replace them with new double deckers every 3-4 years and cascade the older ones to other garages to work less intensive routes and bring down the average mileage per year over the longer term
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
YW only have 25, so any balance would need to made up with additional ones from PB
Would there be a similar problem to this with the 126 branded tridents, they must have high mileage as well traveling from Wolverhampton to Birmingham nearly every day of the week. I suppose this is where branded buses are not as good at least if the buses were unbranded they could be swapped round similar to the 900 service now.
How many miles does an average route 9/141 running board do a day? Where I work a few running boards do up to 250+ miles a day but as there isno specific bus for those particular running boards I guess the milage is more spread out across the fleet.
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
Oh I understand now...... that's not good for Pensnett, as Pensnett have spent a large portion of its maintenance budget having the 09 plate Enviros repainted
& retrimmed.
The 07/57 Enviros from YW & PB will all need a fair bit of money spent on them bringing them up too scratch both internally & externally. It's not going to be good for passengers on the 9/141 either.
What is the benefit of swapping 09 plate buses for 07/57 plate buses? Surely the YW Enviros have been worked pretty hard on the 50 as it is, by moving them on to the intensive Hagley Road routes, this will work them harder still and they could potentially become more un-reliable & need extra money throwing at them mechanically.
If the 09 plate Enviros are clocking up that many miles per year, surely it would be better policy to replace them with new double deckers every 3-4 years and cascade the older ones to other garages to work less intensive routes and bring down the average mileage per year over the longer term
Now we can see why they are being repainted and de-branded. But surely the 9 is one of NXWM premier routes and requires decent buses, and the excuse being used for swapping the Enviros over (that they are being worked to hard and clocking up to many miles) doesn't wash with me.
The omnilinks on the 4 must clock up a high mileage going from either Walsall to Blackheath/Merry Hill or Halesowen daily running every 6 minutes with a PVR of 21 also 8 buses are still required on a Sunday 5 on the 4M and 3 on the 4. On weekdays the first 4 leaves Walsall Bradford Place at 04:40 and the last bus arrives back at Walsall Bradford Place at 00:22 so buses are out on the 4 for just under 21 hours a day although I guess the first bus out won't be the last bus back in on one days service.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 03, 2013, 04:06:37 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
Oh I understand now...... that's not good for Pensnett, as Pensnett have spent a large portion of its maintenance budget having the 09 plate Enviros repainted
& retrimmed.
The 07/57 Enviros from YW & PB will all need a fair bit of money spent on them bringing them up too scratch both internally & externally. It's not going to be good for passengers on the 9/141 either.
What is the benefit of swapping 09 plate buses for 07/57 plate buses? Surely the YW Enviros have been worked pretty hard on the 50 as it is, by moving them on to the intensive Hagley Road routes, this will work them harder still and they could potentially become more un-reliable & need extra money throwing at them mechanically.
If the 09 plate Enviros are clocking up that many miles per year, surely it would be better policy to replace them with new double deckers every 3-4 years and cascade the older ones to other garages to work less intensive routes and bring down the average mileage per year over the longer term
Now we can see why they are being repainted and de-branded. But surely the 9 is one of NXWM premier routes and requires decent buses, and the excuse being used for swapping the Enviros over (that they are being worked to hard and clocking up to many miles) doesn't wash with me.
it would if i told you the other reason this is happening but im not also older enviro 400 to come to pensnett are to be fully fefurbished before/as we have them
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 03, 2013, 04:06:37 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 03, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: karl724223 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
more older enviro on 246 due to the high milage problem on our 09 plates im told 30 older ones from brum poss yw plus 10 poss from pb
I'd be surprised if Pensnett gained 30 x Enviro 400's, they don't need that many additional deckers 15 would be more than enough. If Enviros are possibly being released from YW that would mean that the 50 is due a batch of new buses
our 09 plate enviros going back into a brum garage poss yw there being replaced with 30 older enviro 400s poss from yw with another 10 poss from pb
Oh I understand now...... that's not good for Pensnett, as Pensnett have spent a large portion of its maintenance budget having the 09 plate Enviros repainted
& retrimmed.
The 07/57 Enviros from YW & PB will all need a fair bit of money spent on them bringing them up too scratch both internally & externally. It's not going to be good for passengers on the 9/141 either.
What is the benefit of swapping 09 plate buses for 07/57 plate buses? Surely the YW Enviros have been worked pretty hard on the 50 as it is, by moving them on to the intensive Hagley Road routes, this will work them harder still and they could potentially become more un-reliable & need extra money throwing at them mechanically.
If the 09 plate Enviros are clocking up that many miles per year, surely it would be better policy to replace them with new double deckers every 3-4 years and cascade the older ones to other garages to work less intensive routes and bring down the average mileage per year over the longer term
Now we can see why they are being repainted and de-branded. But surely the 9 is one of NXWM premier routes and requires decent buses, and the excuse being used for swapping the Enviros over (that they are being worked to hard and clocking up to many miles) doesn't wash with me.
it would if i told you the other reason this is happening but im not also older enviro 400 to come to pensnett are to be fully fefurbished before/as we have them
Oooooh, a secret. ;) new buses coming maybe ?
Do we know when all this will happen? Presumably, it means that PB are having new deckers which I assume will be e400s from what has been posted about this year's bus orders.
Well it's going to take a while, 30 buses have to be refurbished!
I also wonder whether PE are going to take over more of WB's work?
Shame to see PB loose the toothpaste enviros, love the whinning noise some of these make (4728 being a good example), will be interesting to see if PB keep 4698
I wouldnt be surprised if NXWM want 30 identical buses refurbed that they contract it out to be done, especially if they want it done to a high standard. Is this what they did with the presidents back in 2007? Can anyone shed any light because I didnt know at the time and still dont know now!!
I think some of the president refurb was was contracted externally, something about a place in bristol I think was mentioned.
Can I just clarify that PE and YW are swapping enviros after they've all been refurbished and when new enviros arrive at PB displacing some toothpaste ones meaning there's batch consistancy and if that's the case are the reasons for doing this mentioned above?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 03, 2013, 09:30:12 PM
Well it's going to take a while, 30 buses have to be refurbished!
I also wonder whether PE are going to take over more of WB's work?
Is there any more news on the WB outstation and the possible relocation. Is there a deadline in which NXWM have to vacate the current outstation they have.
Quote from: Ash on February 03, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 03, 2013, 09:30:12 PM
Well it's going to take a while, 30 buses have to be refurbished!
I also wonder whether PE are going to take over more of WB's work?
Is there any more news on the WB outstation and the possible relocation. Is there a deadline in which NXWM have to vacate the current outstation they have.
Do they have to vacate the current parking area. Seems some work to make it more user friendly is about to happen!
Quote from: Ashley on February 03, 2013, 09:44:51 PM
I think some of the president refurb was was contracted externally, something about a place in bristol I think was mentioned.
I thought it was ADL Harlow that dealt with the President refurbs?
Quote from: Tony on February 03, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
Quote from: Ash on February 03, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 03, 2013, 09:30:12 PM
Well it's going to take a while, 30 buses have to be refurbished!
I also wonder whether PE are going to take over more of WB's work?
Is there any more news on the WB outstation and the possible relocation. Is there a deadline in which NXWM have to vacate the current outstation they have.
Do they have to vacate the current parking area. Seems some work to make it more user friendly is about to happen!
Tony,
I take it by your comments that the WB overflow bus park is now staying open for the foreseeable..... is there still the possibility of the 16 & 101 moving from PB?
Quote from: karl724223 on February 03, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
it would if i told you the other reason this is happening but im not also older enviro 400 to come to pensnett are to be fully fefurbished before/as we have them
Just a guess but something to do with talking buses? I seem to recall during the sandwell review, centro stating the 246 would be getting these systems fitted (assuming these are going to be used on the 246).
Is this "Enviro400 swap" definitely going ahead then? If so, when would we expect to first see these older Enviros on the 9/141?
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
Will they be in that new Green livery any ideas?
Quote from: Discodave on February 06, 2013, 11:15:39 AM
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
Will they be in that new Green livery any ideas?
Im guessing there in the same livery as previous hybrids
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
am i right in thinking these should be in service by february 25th ?
Quote from: A1991 on February 06, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
am i right in thinking these should be in service by february 25th ?
Must be imminent if they are PDI'd at Wrightbus
Quote from: Winston on February 06, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
Quote from: A1991 on February 06, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
am i right in thinking these should be in service by february 25th ?
Must be imminent if they are PDI'd at Wrightbus
oh, cool. New buses for me then :)
Hope they're better than the B5 hybrids on the 22/23, which take about half an hour to change up...
They'll never change up on the #1 it stops every couple of seconds lol
If I want to travel between Dudley and Wolves I use the 558. I've never been up there at a time when the 558 wasn't running. However I will make an exception if there are Enviro400 Hybrids on the 1, but will steer clear of the B5's...
Well I've never been on either of the hybrids, personally I think the B5 looks better but I like E400h too.
The Enviro400H is ridiculously fast accelerating and in my opinion looks nicer, the B5 is just so frustratingly slow in comparison. I know I'm rather speed-biased but well, if you're in the area, have a ride or two on the 22 or 23, see if you can get one of each bus. My first time the driver was giving an E400H a proper thrashing around deserted roads late at night, almost nobody on the bus, I absolutely loved it, couldn't believe how fast we were going.
Quote from: nitromatt1 on February 06, 2013, 07:57:18 PM
The Enviro400H is ridiculously fast accelerating and in my opinion looks nicer, the B5 is just so frustratingly slow in comparison. I know I'm rather speed-biased but well, if you're in the area, have a ride or two on the 22 or 23, see if you can get one of each bus. My first time the driver was giving an E400H a proper thrashing around deserted roads late at night, almost nobody on the bus, I absolutely loved it, couldn't believe how fast we were going.
I would have to disagree on this, and I think you do the B5LH a disservice. There is bit of lag after they have moved off under electric power, and just after the diesel engine has kicked in, but after that they pick up quickly and can really shift. I think they feel quicker than the E400H when pushed, like you I've experienced them late at night and along the non-stop section along Sandpits and Ladywood Middleway they can go like **** off a shovel. They pull away quickly at Five Ways too, when they need to.
There aren't many seats downstairs, but massive legroom upstairs.
I'm a fan of both Hybrid types and think both will prove popular on the WN 1, as they are on the 22/23.
Quote from: nitromatt1 on February 06, 2013, 07:57:18 PM
The Enviro400H is ridiculously fast accelerating and in my opinion looks nicer, the B5 is just so frustratingly slow in comparison. I know I'm rather speed-biased but well, if you're in the area, have a ride or two on the 22 or 23, see if you can get one of each bus. My first time the driver was giving an E400H a proper thrashing around deserted roads late at night, almost nobody on the bus, I absolutely loved it, couldn't believe how fast we were going.
Probably not as fast as you think! There is very little difference between the performance of the two types
Been on both a good few times, B5LH has an unconventional downstairs layout but overall has grown on me. The initial start up is sluggish under the electric power till the engine kicks in and intial gear change occurs but it is very impressive speed wise when it gets going. Considerably faster than the Enviro 400H although there has been only one time I've experienced it as usually the 22/23 is a fairly congested route. I've read reviews that have suggested it's performance on routes that allow the B5LH to get up to speed it's superior to an Enviro 400H. Although the 400H seems to perform much more like a traditional bus on stop/start urban routes, from what I've heard it has quite a low top speed and can struggle on out of town, hilly routes in comparison with the B5LH. Can't find the review I remember reading but this one is quite a decent read
http://www.focustransport.org.uk/fhybrid3.aspx
Is it a coincidence...................but there appear to be about 80 pre 1628 Mercs left and NXWM have 81 double deckers on order.
Having said that, both YW and PB still have B10Ls also..............
Quote from: don on February 06, 2013, 09:42:29 PM
Is it a coincidence...................but there appear to be about 80 pre 1628 Mercs left and NXWM have 81 double deckers on order.
Having said that, both YW and PB still have B10Ls also..............
They have announced that 130 new buses on order, I'm assuming that doesn't include the 30 x Enviro 200's which should have been part of the 2012 NX bus order, but the quantity may well include the 9 x E400H destined for Dundee
Having thought about it, I must say I've never been at a particularly high speed on a B5LH; indeed I've only had one ride to date so I cannot judge in that respect. I boarded on the 23 at Colmore Row and alighted at Harborne to get the 11C (wanted to go home as it was late), and the journey was almost entirely start-stop, so I was perhaps mistakenly judging it based on its initial acceleration.
I would be interested to have a longer ride on a B5LH when the route isn't so busy, so I could experience it at speed and compare it to the E400H. Either way, I too am a fan of the hybrids and will certainly be getting one on the WN1 as soon as they enter service.
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
B5s are for BC, aren't they?
Quote from: nx4737 on February 07, 2013, 01:31:34 AM
Quote from: rob@mdc on February 06, 2013, 10:54:32 AM
Staff going over to Ballymena next tuesday to PDI WN's Volvo B5LH. 9 to come.
B5s are for BC, aren't they?
Not anymore
What's the latest plan then?
9 Volvo B5's delivered this month and 12 ADL Enviro 400H delivered Mid March all to WN
Quote from: A1991 on February 07, 2013, 01:42:26 AM
9 Volvo B5's delivered this month and 12 ADL Enviro 400H delivered Mid March all to WN
There's logic for you!
Any thoughts on what slogans the WN Hybrids might carry? 'Turning the Black Country Green' perhaps?
Quote from: Mike K on February 07, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Any thoughts on what slogans the WN Hybrids might carry? 'Turning the Black Country Green' perhaps?
Well it shouldn't be 'Proud to carry the people of wolverhamptn' because half of the route is in Dudley.
I know something though, a lot of people are going to get confused between NXWM & Green Bus.
Quote from: A1991 on February 07, 2013, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: Mike K on February 07, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Any thoughts on what slogans the WN Hybrids might carry? 'Turning the Black Country Green' perhaps?
Well it shouldn't be 'Proud to carry the people of wolverhamptn' because half of the route is in Dudley.
I know something though, a lot of people are going to get confused between NXWM & Green Bus.
That's a very good point, might inadvertently do The Green Bus a big favour as numbers seem lower than ever and doesn't help that it consistently picks up from the wrong place in Dudley or just not at all if that's what the driver feels like doing, problem is there really not too fussed about the 558 because of the expansion of school and college services, in particular King Edwards from September, can see them having to bring in some new buses soon.
Where is there any official confirmation of new vehicle orders for 2013?
Quote from: RW on February 07, 2013, 11:20:06 AM
Where is there any official confirmation of new vehicle orders for 2013?
There isn't as yet, the article in the B'ham mail is as much as we know to date:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/new-fleet-of-buses-lined-up-640938
Quote from: Mike K on February 07, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Any thoughts on what slogans the WN Hybrids might carry? 'Turning the Black Country Green' perhaps?
hybrids for the inbreeds or dingles on board
Quote from: karl724223 on February 07, 2013, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: Mike K on February 07, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Any thoughts on what slogans the WN Hybrids might carry? 'Turning the Black Country Green' perhaps?
hybrids for the inbreeds or dingles on board
what about do yo want to get my new buzz
Quote from: A1991 on February 07, 2013, 01:42:26 AM
9 Volvo B5's delivered this month and 12 ADL Enviro 400H delivered Mid March all to WN
Wonder if the buses will enter service when they are delivered, or will they wait and all enter service at the same time.
Take it there entry to service will be well publised?
Has anything been confirmed yet in relation to which garage receives which type?
This speculation doesn't appear to be based on any fact whatsoever.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on February 07, 2013, 10:29:33 PM
Has anything been confirmed yet in relation to which garage receives which type?
This speculation doesn't appear to be based on any fact whatsoever.
Yes rob@mdc has confirmed that WN is receiving 21 x new hybrids comprising 9 x Volvo B5LH & 12 x ADL E400H.
It is fact, if you look further up this thread rob@mdc has also confirmed that WN staff are going to the Wrightbus factory next Tue to PDI the Volvo Hybrids. Rob works for NXWM and is now based at WN
A Walsall driver on the 51 route has just told me he has seen two hybrids heading up the A34 this morning between M6 Junction 7 and Walsall, so may be the first two of Wolverhamptons on delivery
Quote from: Tony on February 09, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
A Walsall driver on the 51 route has just told me he has seen two hybrids heading up the A34 this morning between M6 Junction 7 and Walsall, so may be the first two of Wolverhamptons on delivery
Tony, do you have any idea when the 2013 orders may commence delivery, will they follow the Hybrids or be later in the year?
Quote from: Tony on February 09, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
A Walsall driver on the 51 route has just told me he has seen two hybrids heading up the A34 this morning between M6 Junction 7 and Walsall, so may be the first two of Wolverhamptons on delivery
At last new deckers at PL hopefully unless they get turned back to BC they are getting all the new buses look at West Broms Enviros unless they have got some.
Quote from: Tony on February 09, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
A Walsall driver on the 51 route has just told me he has seen two hybrids heading up the A34 this morning between M6 Junction 7 and Walsall, so may be the first two of Wolverhamptons on delivery
Do the B5LHs go to Hartshorne's in Walsall for warranty / maintenance work? I'm wondering whether these were a couple of BC's seeing as it's been noted in the unusual workings section that there were 4 Tridents on the 22/23 today.
Or would they use the M6 to get there anyway?
saw 2 hybrids just inside park lane as i passed this morning think they both 61 plates
Quote from: mranon on February 09, 2013, 09:16:01 PM
saw 2 hybrids just inside park lane as i passed this morning think they both 61 plates
A couple on loan for type training perhaps?
Quote from: Mike K on February 09, 2013, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: mranon on February 09, 2013, 09:16:01 PM
saw 2 hybrids just inside park lane as i passed this morning think they both 61 plates
A couple on loan for type training perhaps?
May explain why there were 4 Tridents on the 22/23 in Birmingham today!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 09, 2013, 09:23:47 PM
Quote from: Mike K on February 09, 2013, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: mranon on February 09, 2013, 09:16:01 PM
saw 2 hybrids just inside park lane as i passed this morning think they both 61 plates
A couple on loan for type training perhaps?
May explain why there were 4 Tridents on the 22/23 in Birmingham today!
5403 and 5503 will be at WN every weekend for the next 4 weeks for type training.
National Express Coventry have mentioned today on their Facebook page...
"23 new buses this Spring and possibly some more before the end of the year"
Just thought I would ask if anuthing confirmed as cov has been type training with the B7rle and the 400s getting sent vaults?
Hi guys, its been a quiet night so ive attempted to do the sums based on what has been said on here, any corrections welcome.
60 enviro 400
24 B7RLE
21 Hybrids (Volvo and ADL included
9 dundee hybrids? (ADL)
Total 114
Uneducated guess but pritty much got the 2013 order nailed?
As said before corrections welcome or even better if their something overlooked.
Quote from: danny on March 11, 2013, 10:22:32 PM
Hi guys, its been a quiet night so ive attempted to do the sums based on what has been said on here, any corrections welcome.
60 enviro 400
24 B7RLE
21 Hybrids (Volvo and ADL included
9 dundee hybrids? (ADL)
Total 114
Uneducated guess but pritty much got the 2013 order nailed?
As said before corrections welcome or even better if their something overlooked.
Would think it will be Double Deckers this year, although NXWM must be planning for the withdrawl of the B6s and earlier Mercs.
Mercs from the batch 1515 -1523 were supposed to be withdrawn when the B7RLEs were delivered, but that didn't happen.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on March 11, 2013, 11:06:27 PM
Mercs from the batch 1515 -1523 were supposed to be withdrawn when the B7RLEs were delivered, but that didn't happen.
Hopefully it won't for a while either, they are my favourite Mercs, indeed 1520 was the first Merc I travelled on and what made me start liking them so much
Some of the older mercs sound better than the newer T and V reg ones. I always noticed that the R reg ones always sound different to the S/T/V reg versions more of a whine to the engines.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on March 11, 2013, 11:06:27 PM
Quote from: danny on March 11, 2013, 10:22:32 PM
Hi guys, its been a quiet night so ive attempted to do the sums based on what has been said on here, any corrections welcome.
60 enviro 400
24 B7RLE
21 Hybrids (Volvo and ADL included
9 dundee hybrids? (ADL)
Total 114
Uneducated guess but pritty much got the 2013 order nailed?
As said before corrections welcome or even better if their something overlooked.
Would think it will be Double Deckers this year, although NXWM must be planning for the withdrawl of the B6s and earlier Mercs.
Mercs from the batch 1515 -1523 were supposed to be withdrawn when the B7RLEs were delivered, but that didn't happen.
Unless plans have since changed? As the Spectra aren't being withdrawn this year, I suspect it will be all single deckers that are being withdrawn to allow for an increased proportion of double deckers within the NXWM/NXC fleet. As discussed elsewhere, there are a number of single deck routes that would benefit from the increased capacity of double deckers. Dundee will also be using the new ADL hybrids to allow Gemini to cascade from the 5 & replace early B10L's.
I'm thinking all Solo & Excel will be withdrawn, a few more B6LE, a large chunk of the earlier non refurbished Mercs (from 1515-1627 range). Although the B10L's are older, as all are now in NX livery & have been refurbished internally I'm thinking a proportion of those remaining may see out 2013 still in service, however I'm not sure how they are faring reliability / mechanically wise. That said it depends of what the ex WN Tridents are heading to YW for, where the remaining 50 x ADL E400's are heading & what the balance of the 16 unconfirmed new buses are. There may or may not be an increased pvr requirement following the North B'ham review?
Anyone know when NXWM will be getting new deckers, not hybrid ones though. And what garage will be getting them? No point holding my breath for the Bristol Road......
Surely they'll want to start to scrap these 41hundred tridents as some are right sheds.
I reckon there's still 15 new buses that we still don't even know what they're going to be. It will probably be more of the Enviro200, possibly for WN, Dundee, or just more for BC, WN and PE.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on May 30, 2013, 01:00:27 PM
I reckon there's still 15 new buses that we still don't even know what they're going to be. It will probably be more of the Enviro200, possibly for WN, Dundee, or just more for BC, WN and PE.
There is 15 new buses still unaccounted for, if the total 130 new buses for 2013 is still correct
NXD were meant to be having an Enviro 200, not sure if it was a second-hand acquisition or a demonstrator
They are also expecting 2 x second-hand LWB Optare Solo's as part of the June 30th service changes / Pvr increase
Quote from: lynx1103 on June 01, 2013, 01:21:58 PM
4880-4884 have arrived at Walsall garage
Presumably for the 934/6 like i predicted. Will these be in service by 9th June
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 02:07:43 PM
Quote from: lynx1103 on June 01, 2013, 01:21:58 PM
4880-4884 have arrived at Walsall garage
Presumably for the 934/6 like i predicted. Will these be in service by 9th June
Now Lets see where 4895-4939 go ;)
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 02:07:43 PM
Quote from: lynx1103 on June 01, 2013, 01:21:58 PM
4880-4884 have arrived at Walsall garage
Presumably for the 934/6 like i predicted. Will these be in service by 9th June
And I did as well!! I would think they would appear when needed on the 10th June. But with the speed that the Coventry ones have entered service I wouldn't be surprised to see them next week
I predict 4895-34 will go to PB for the sutton lines and to BC
According to a post on Flickr, the 900 and 957 are being upgraded to Enviro400 along with the Sutton Routes at Perry Barr.
So Transbus Trident2's at BC will cascade to WN then, I guess.
Quote from: Sayeed_M on June 02, 2013, 09:28:16 AM
So Transbus Trident2's at BC will cascade to WN then, I guess.
And then presumably and sadly wipe out the Spectras with history repeating itself as it was the 09 plate Enviro's arriving at BC that sent the Spectras packing first time
Quote from: Sayeed_M on June 02, 2013, 09:28:16 AM
So Transbus Trident2's at BC will cascade to WN then, I guess.
Or Maybe they will be cascaded onto other BC routes which will casade some Y-TOH tridents to WN.
Although Having more BX54 Tridents (Technically not Transbus but actually Alexander Dennis Tridents. Transbus collapsed and Alexander Dennis formed and Completed the order. This is what somebody told me.) will be great and getting rid of Spectras will give us an even younger average fleet age
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 02, 2013, 10:30:11 AM
Quote from: Sayeed_M on June 02, 2013, 09:28:16 AM
So Transbus Trident2's at BC will cascade to WN then, I guess.
Or Maybe they will be cascaded onto other BC routes which will casade some Y-TOH tridents to WN.
Although Having more BX54 Tridents (Technically not Transbus but actually Alexander Dennis Tridents. Transbus collapsed and Alexander Dennis formed and Completed the order. This is what somebody told me.) will be great and getting rid of Spectras will give us an even younger average fleet age
The 900/957 don't actually use the 54 Tridents anyway, if BC were to receive new E400 there's no benefit in allowing the next newest buses to leave BC as they'll still be stuck with a large fleet of Y-reg Tridents, its those numbers that need to be reduced. I think any spare Tridents from BC will be cascaded to allow further single deckers to be withdrawn, as those are the ones that need disposing of first due to being none DDA complaint (i.e. Wheelchair accessible), this will include all Solo's, B6LE, last Excel, B10L & all Mercs up too 1627 regardless of whether they have been refurb'd. Therefore I think the Spectra's will remain in service at least another 12-18 months while that lot are being replaced as priority.
At NXWM:5 x Solos
38 x B6LE
1 x Excel
39 x B10L
74 x Merc 0405N (1515-1627)
Total 174 none DDA complaint single deckers (which excludes Dundee)
Dundee has around another 52 single decker (Solo's, B10L & B10BLE) buses that are non DDA compliant
That takes the quantity that need disposing of to around 226 buses, as there are only 100 of this years new buses still enter service/allow withdrawals, these will eat in to much of 2014's NX orders as well
I agree Winston but don't see how any cascaded Tridents will help get rid of the 38 B6LE and a lot of the Mercs as they operate routes where a Trident just won't be viable in terms of passenger usage or won't fit due to tight roads, parked cars and bridges, the only real viable routes that currently operate using Mercs and B6's that I can see accomodating Tridents would be some of PE's Stourbridge routes
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on June 02, 2013, 01:02:57 PM
I agree Winston but don't see how any cascaded Tridents will help get rid of the 38 B6LE and a lot of the Mercs as they operate routes where a Trident just won't be viable in terms of passenger usage or won't fit due to tight roads, parked cars and bridges, the only real viable routes that currently operate using Mercs and B6's that I can see accomodating Tridents would be some of PE's Stourbridge routes
Yes, but would PE accept Tridents?
If the Spectras are to go from WN, then perhaps the ten best should be selected and sent to PE to allow the 246 to become 100% DD operated.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on June 02, 2013, 01:07:42 PM
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on June 02, 2013, 01:02:57 PM
I agree Winston but don't see how any cascaded Tridents will help get rid of the 38 B6LE and a lot of the Mercs as they operate routes where a Trident just won't be viable in terms of passenger usage or won't fit due to tight roads, parked cars and bridges, the only real viable routes that currently operate using Mercs and B6's that I can see accomodating Tridents would be some of PE's Stourbridge routes
Yes, but would PE accept Tridents?
If the Spectras are to go from WN, then perhaps the ten best should be selected and sent to PE to allow the 246 to become 100% DD operated.
Stu,
If PE aren't going to accept Tridents, I can't see them accepting Spectra's as we all know they are not the most reliable & would eat in to PE's engineering budget
Whats the PVR of the 900/957?
Just thinking though a good solution would be to standardise PB-ie some older enviros to PE replacing mercs, refurbed b7tls to west brom and centrals displaced tridents could always go to wolves replacing single deckers and increasing capacity over there or to yardley wood helping them to shift a few presidents and standardise the fleet a bit more. Presidents can go across to west brom and be used on routes like the 48 or up to dundee. Omnilinks would help walsall to clear out some older stock and perhaps upgrade a couple of routes. They seem to be destined for either YW/WA/PB all of which have omnilinks and b10ls which are the oldest long single deckers still in the fleet.
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on June 02, 2013, 01:02:57 PM
I agree Winston but don't see how any cascaded Tridents will help get rid of the 38 B6LE and a lot of the Mercs as they operate routes where a Trident just won't be viable in terms of passenger usage or won't fit due to tight roads, parked cars and bridges, the only real viable routes that currently operate using Mercs and B6's that I can see accomodating Tridents would be some of PE's Stourbridge routes
I didn't neccessarily mean replacing via direct transfers but some could be. Any double deckers released from E400 deliveries may be cascaded through a number of NXWM garages / vehicle movements, both PE & WA have gone from having allocations of around 50 x B6LE now down to single figures with PE being the only garage of the two to receive new midis. Double deckers are very similar in terms of length to a B6LE @ 10.6M long and are only marginally wider, they and much shorter than 12M Mercs though. The difference in costs of running a double decker against a running full size single decker I doubt would be that great.....
I would think NX may have to buy another batch of E200's to oust the remaining B6LE that serve tight roads on housing estates etc That said, the 243/244 utilize most of PE's B6LE, but both routes can take full size single deckers & double deckers.
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 01:20:31 PM
Whats the PVR of the 900/957?
Just thinking though a good solution would be to standardise PB-ie some older enviros to PE replacing mercs, refurbed b7tls to west brom and centrals displaced tridents could always go to wolves replacing single deckers and increasing capacity over there or to yardley wood helping them to shift a few presidents and standardise the fleet a bit more. Presidents can go across to west brom and be used on routes like the 48 or up to dundee. Omnilinks would help walsall to clear out some older stock and perhaps upgrade a couple of routes. They seem to be destined for either YW/WA/PB all of which have omnilinks and b10ls which are the oldest long single deckers still in the fleet.
Peter123,
I'd guess the combined Pvr may be around 16 ish (10 x 900 & 6 x 957)?
Even if any older PB E400's became available for transfer, I think other Central B'ham routes would be higher priority than PE having them to release Mercs for withdrawal. I think the best PE could hope for is early Tridents or Presidents over the next few years
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 01:20:31 PM
Whats the PVR of the 900/957?
Just thinking though a good solution would be to standardise PB-ie some older enviros to PE replacing mercs, refurbed b7tls to west brom and centrals displaced tridents could always go to wolves replacing single deckers and increasing capacity over there or to yardley wood helping them to shift a few presidents and standardise the fleet a bit more. Presidents can go across to west brom and be used on routes like the 48 or up to dundee. Omnilinks would help walsall to clear out some older stock and perhaps upgrade a couple of routes. They seem to be destined for either YW/WA/PB all of which have omnilinks and b10ls which are the oldest long single deckers still in the fleet.
Peter123,
I'd guess the combined Pvr may be around 16 ish (10 x 900 & 6 x 957)?
Even if any older PB E400's became available for transfer, I think other Central B'ham routes would be higher priority than PE having them to release Mercs for withdrawal. I think the best PE could hope for is early Tridents or Presidents over the next few years
Thanks didnt know the PVR-which isnt massive
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 01:20:31 PM
Whats the PVR of the 900/957?
Just thinking though a good solution would be to standardise PB-ie some older enviros to PE replacing mercs, refurbed b7tls to west brom and centrals displaced tridents could always go to wolves replacing single deckers and increasing capacity over there or to yardley wood helping them to shift a few presidents and standardise the fleet a bit more. Presidents can go across to west brom and be used on routes like the 48 or up to dundee. Omnilinks would help walsall to clear out some older stock and perhaps upgrade a couple of routes. They seem to be destined for either YW/WA/PB all of which have omnilinks and b10ls which are the oldest long single deckers still in the fleet.
Peter123,
I'd guess the combined Pvr may be around 16 ish (10 x 900 & 6 x 957)?
Even if any older PB E400's became available for transfer, I think other Central B'ham routes would be higher priority than PE having them to release Mercs for withdrawal. I think the best PE could hope for is early Tridents or Presidents over the next few years
Thanks didnt know the PVR-which isnt massive
Peter, don't take that as gospel, it was my best guess only. uniquicity is your man for working out Pvrs ;)
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 02:30:47 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 01:20:31 PM
Whats the PVR of the 900/957?
Just thinking though a good solution would be to standardise PB-ie some older enviros to PE replacing mercs, refurbed b7tls to west brom and centrals displaced tridents could always go to wolves replacing single deckers and increasing capacity over there or to yardley wood helping them to shift a few presidents and standardise the fleet a bit more. Presidents can go across to west brom and be used on routes like the 48 or up to dundee. Omnilinks would help walsall to clear out some older stock and perhaps upgrade a couple of routes. They seem to be destined for either YW/WA/PB all of which have omnilinks and b10ls which are the oldest long single deckers still in the fleet.
Peter123,
I'd guess the combined Pvr may be around 16 ish (10 x 900 & 6 x 957)?
Even if any older PB E400's became available for transfer, I think other Central B'ham routes would be higher priority than PE having them to release Mercs for withdrawal. I think the best PE could hope for is early Tridents or Presidents over the next few years
Thanks didnt know the PVR-which isnt massive
Peter, don't take that as gospel, it was my best guess only. uniquicity is your man for working out Pvrs ;)
No worries gives a decent idea
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 01:26:07 PM
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on June 02, 2013, 01:02:57 PM
I agree Winston but don't see how any cascaded Tridents will help get rid of the 38 B6LE and a lot of the Mercs as they operate routes where a Trident just won't be viable in terms of passenger usage or won't fit due to tight roads, parked cars and bridges, the only real viable routes that currently operate using Mercs and B6's that I can see accomodating Tridents would be some of PE's Stourbridge routes
I didn't neccessarily mean replacing via direct transfers but some could be. Any double deckers released from E400 deliveries may be cascaded through a number of NXWM garages / vehicle movements, both PE & WA have gone from having allocations of around 50 x B6LE now down to single figures with PE being the only garage of the two to receive new midis. Double deckers are very similar in terms of length to a B6LE @ 10.6M long and are only marginally wider, they and much shorter than 12M Mercs though. The difference in costs of running a double decker against a running full size single decker I doubt would be that great.....
I would think NX may have to buy another batch of E200's to oust the remaining B6LE that serve tight roads on housing estates etc That said, the 243/244 utilize most of PE's B6LE, but both routes can take full size single deckers & double deckers.
Additionally, there is nothing to say that some 56 plate B7RLE from WA couldn't be transferred to PE to replace Mercs or even a batch of Omnilinks from somewhere else, same applies with WB garage. Those older single deckers could be released by transferring in double deckers that have been released by new vehicles on to busy single decker routes and cascaded the single deckers from those routes elsewhere to replace older non DDA compliant stock.
Using PE as an example, the 120, 140 & 241 could be converted to double deckers, Tridents or B7TL/ ALX400 or Gemini to comply with Min Euro 3 in B'ham City Centre (those would ideally need to be refurbished though with using them to replacie nearly new single deckers), with the current B7RLE moving on to quieter PE single decker routes. Mercs on the 246 & X96 could be replaced directly with double deckers, and the loads carried can justify there allocation
Only had a quick glance but I also make the PVR 16, but with 9 on the 900 and 7 on the 957. Willing to be proved wrong though, Coventry Road isn't my territory.
Quote from: uniquicity on June 02, 2013, 03:15:43 PM
Only had a quick glance but I also make the PVRs 16, but with 9 on the 900 and 7 on the 957. Willing to be proved wrong though, Coventry Road isn't my territory.
Cheers Pete ;)
I wasn't far off at all then...
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 03:32:54 AM
According to a post on Flickr, the 900 and 957 are being upgraded to Enviro400 along with the Sutton Routes at Perry Barr.
If those are the routes that NXWM intend to upgrade with E400's:
I'm thinking of the batch of 45 x E400's still due:
16 + 2 spares = 18 for 900/957 @ BC
20 + 2 spares = 22 for Sutton Lines @ PB
Possibily leaving around 5 unallocated that could be used to top up the allocation at another garage than already operates the type?
Probably the remaining 5 E400's either goes to WA or YW addition fleet for route 50 :-\
Or Cov to help reduce even more Mercs that might need to be withdrawn.
It's interesting Sutton Lines getting new buses, but why??? I mean its only approx 6 years ago they had new buses. What makes this line so much more higher profile than more frequent routes like th 16s 97s 94???? Moan over.
I think the 15 more buses will be Enviro200, and after my previous post, I thought they would be for WN, Dundee, or more for BC, WB and PE.
Now, having looked at the fleetlists and other posts around here, I deducted Dundee because they are getting 2 second hand Solos, and looking at B6LE allocations, I think they must be for WN. They currently operate 11 B6LE and 1 Excel (which presumably is going to be replaced by another B6LE soon).
2 spares
26/A, 28, 62/A PVR=5/6?
2 on 25
4 on 11
2 on 27/A
=15/16 buses
And yes, I know that WN has had loads of new buses already, but there's no Midibuses other than B6LE around to cascade to WN and 15 sounds like a good number.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 02, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
It's interesting Sutton Lines getting new buses, but why??? I mean its only approx 6 years ago they had new buses. What makes this line so much more higher profile than more frequent routes like th 16s 97s 94???? Moan over.
The only thing I can think of is to coincide with North B'ham review?
Why on earth would BC get enviro 200s?? What route other than the 99 needs buses this size. Personally I would transfer the 99 across to PE and give them more enviro 200s standardising the fleet a bit and giving PE another more high profile route with new buses of a type they already run
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 02, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
It's interesting Sutton Lines getting new buses, but why??? I mean its only approx 6 years ago they had new buses. What makes this line so much more higher profile than more frequent routes like th 16s 97s 94???? Moan over.
The only thing I can think of is to coincide with North B'ham review?
Don't forget the Sutton Lines serve some 'nice' parts of Sutton, where the bus has to compete against a very frequent and popular train service whilst in an area where many people have access to cars.
Quite simply, and without wanting to stereotype/generalise, a larger proportion of passengers on other 'less affluent' corridors, where there isn't a good train service, have no alternative to the bus so as long as the service runs the vehicle condition isn't as high a priority to the operator as they 'can't' lose these passengers to elsewhere.
Whilst this may be unfortunate for the passengers on those corridors, at the end of the day bus companies are businesses aiming to make profit.
(Cough) Soho road ( Cough)
Quote from: notepanel on June 02, 2013, 07:51:59 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 02, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
It's interesting Sutton Lines getting new buses, but why??? I mean its only approx 6 years ago they had new buses. What makes this line so much more higher profile than more frequent routes like th 16s 97s 94???? Moan over.
The only thing I can think of is to coincide with North B'ham review?
Don't forget the Sutton Lines serve some 'nice' parts of Sutton, where the bus has to compete against a very frequent and popular train service whilst in an area where many people have access to cars.
Quite simply, and without wanting to stereotype/generalise, a larger proportion of passengers on other 'less affluent' corridors, where there isn't a good train service, have no alternative to the bus so as long as the service runs the vehicle condition isn't as high a priority to the operator as they 'can't' lose these passengers to elsewhere.
Whilst this may be unfortunate for the passengers on those corridors, at the end of the day bus companies are businesses aiming to make profit.
Tony, Do you know which Garages the rest of the current order of E400's are going to.
I predicted correctly that 4880-4 were for WA. I think PB and BC will get the next order.
If you don't know tony, Which garages do you think will get them?
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 06:31:31 PM
Why on earth would BC get enviro 200s?? What route other than the 99 needs buses this size. Personally I would transfer the 99 across to PE and give them more enviro 200s standardising the fleet a bit and giving PE another more high profile route with new buses of a type they already run
I do think that's a good idea Peter, they used to run the 636, its equivalent a few years back didn't they? And buses could always then run Halesowen services to get back closer to depot, or even a few late night 9 workings to get back from Brum, endless possiblities, and like you say standardises the type which will surely help bring BC's engineering budget down a little with less spares carried etc... so they can get on with the task of sorting out some of their Tridents
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 02, 2013, 09:46:57 PM
Tony, Do you know which Garages the rest of the current order of E400's are going to.
I predicted correctly that 4880-4 were for WA. I think PB and BC will get the next order.
If you don't know tony, Which garages do you think will get them?
I do know current plans (which of course may change), same as I knew some time ago about 4880-4, but I have been advised not to post any advance information as an employee as it could be commercially sensitive.
Thats ok tony :) But What would your guess be?. As i said PB for Sutton Lines (And with th the last batch of E400 probably other routes sometimes like the 16/94/33 etc) and BC for the 900/957 (Again these will appear probably on the local routes sometimes like 97/60/45/47 etc
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 02, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Thats ok tony :) But What would your guess be?. As i said PB for Sutton Lines (And with th the last batch of E400 probably other routes sometimes like the 16/94/33 etc) and BC for the 900/957 (Again these will appear probably on the local routes sometimes like 97/60/45/47 etc
As Tony has already confirmed he knows of NX's current plans but is unable to confirm due to the reasons quoted above, his hardly going to guess, so it maybe better to just leave it alone ;)
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on June 02, 2013, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 06:31:31 PM
Why on earth would BC get enviro 200s?? What route other than the 99 needs buses this size. Personally I would transfer the 99 across to PE and give them more enviro 200s standardising the fleet a bit and giving PE another more high profile route with new buses of a type they already run
I do think that's a good idea Peter, they used to run the 636, its equivalent a few years back didn't they? And buses could always then run Halesowen services to get back closer to depot, or even a few late night 9 workings to get back from Brum, endless possiblities, and like you say standardises the type which will surely help bring BC's engineering budget down a little with less spares carried etc... so they can get on with the task of sorting out some of their Tridents
It was WB that ran the 636 for a time, it's changed hands a few times that route.
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 02, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Thats ok tony :) But What would your guess be?. As i said PB for Sutton Lines (And with th the last batch of E400 probably other routes sometimes like the 16/94/33 etc) and BC for the 900/957 (Again these will appear probably on the local routes sometimes like 97/60/45/47 etc
As Tony has already confirmed he knows of NX's current plans but is unable to confirm due to the reasons quoted above, his hardly going to guess, so it maybe better to just leave it alone ;)
That's exactly what I was going to say lol, no point in guessing something you already know the answer to
Quote from: Sayeed_M on June 02, 2013, 11:30:14 PM
Is it true that before WB it used to be operated by PB? Because I have seen the drivers from 636 route on the Sutton Lines numerous time.
Yes. It went from Perry Barr to West Bromwich, from Optare Solos to the 36** Darts.
I think there are definitely routes other than the Sutton Lines that need an upgrade, so I don't see why they're pampered so much. For example, the 45 and 47 compete with a train route so why are they given old Tridents to use whilst PB continually receive brand new buses? North Birmingham/Walsall are awash with new buses whilst East and South Birmingham are Trident, Trident and maybe a President thrown in
Accoding to the link below the Remaining 45 Enviro 400's on order are going to BC for Routes 900 & 957 and PB for the Sutton Lines
(Its in the Bottom Paragraph)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coventrybuspics/8917109917/
Only Time will tell
Does he work in Head Office? If not how the hell does he know all this info. Although what he says makes complete sense and is exactly what i predict will happen.
Sutton lines has always had up to date fleet. From 2000
April 2000
4083-4086 4110-4119
Volvo B7 Plaxton president
October 2001
4279-4299
Volvo B7 Alexander Alx400
November 2003-January 2004
4488-4516
Volvo Gemini
September 2007-December 2007
4718-4737
Dennis Enviro
4777-4781
Scania Omicity
Sampled 4881 today, nice and smooth. But it does have the awful smell that the E200s had/still have. I'm. It sure if its the paint, or the internal fittings, but it can also be smelt on the outside. Is it to do with the Scarborough plant? None of the Falkirk vehicles had this smell when new.
Quote from: Gareth on June 12, 2013, 03:28:54 PM
Sampled 4881 today, nice and smooth. But it does have the awful smell that the E200s had/still have. I'm. It sure if its the paint, or the internal fittings, but it can also be smelt on the outside. Is it to do with the Scarborough plant? None of the Falkirk vehicles had this smell when new.
Mmm.. That new bus smell!
I know what you're on about but it's the smell of newness. BC E400's have the same scent. I like it. But being a rat I also like sewers...
Whatever the smell is, it's awful! Reminds me of the old Leyland DAF / LDV plant at Ward End during the mid to late 80s. That smell filled the whole area.
I smelt it when an enviro went past me in west brom the other day-u can smell it from the outside and its a kind of waxy/paint smell which is quite strong
Yes, thats it. My dad used to have an old wax jacket that we always said made him smell like the Sherpa factory!
I know exactly the smell you mean, the Enviro200s at PN still having it. I don't usually like strong smells but I do quite like it
Quote from: nitromatt1 on June 12, 2013, 04:52:45 PM
I know exactly the smell you mean, the Enviro200s at PN still having it. I don't usually like strong smells but I do quite like it
I don't hate it its just its weird u can smell it from outside-diamonds b7rles smell inside but not outside. Dont know any type that has ever had this before
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 03, 2013, 04:10:09 PM
Does he work in Head Office? If not how the hell does he know all this info. Although what he says makes complete sense and is exactly what i predict will happen.
Yes, He working in NXC garage! I remember he favourite route is former 32/33! He almost drive on the 32/33 than other route. Now He does like work in later shift.
Well, that's all nice and clear then.
Quote from: Rob4367 on June 03, 2013, 03:56:13 PM
Accoding to the link below the Remaining 45 Enviro 400's on order are going to BC for Routes 900 & 957 and PB for the Sutton Lines
(Its in the Bottom Paragraph)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coventrybuspics/8917109917/
Only Time will tell
While I hope this is true. I can't help but think of the amount of mileage that E400s would gain on the 900
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 01:06:47 PM
Is there any news of orders for 2013.
Previously NX have said they will order approximately 120 new vehicles per year to keep pace with fleet replacement
So far the following have been mentioned
21 Hybrids for NXWM for WN route 1. I believe this to be 12 E400s & 9 Geminis (swap with BC E400s)
10 Hybrids for NXD. These were confirmed as E400s in the press release
So that leaves 89 additional vehicles to order. Any ideas?
Possibly about 20 trident 2 (for west brom)
Some of the Hybrids for the 126 (it needs it) with branding
and possibly some mercs (WN
Quote from: domino.99 on June 16, 2013, 07:42:11 AM
Quote from: Wolves256 on October 11, 2012, 01:06:47 PM
Is there any news of orders for 2013.
Previously NX have said they will order approximately 120 new vehicles per year to keep pace with fleet replacement
So far the following have been mentioned
21 Hybrids for NXWM for WN route 1. I believe this to be 12 E400s & 9 Geminis (swap with BC E400s)
10 Hybrids for NXD. These were confirmed as E400s in the press release
So that leaves 89 additional vehicles to order. Any ideas?
Possibly about 20 trident 2 (for west brom)
Some of the Hybrids for the 126 (it needs it) with branding
and possibly some mercs (WN
Are you suggesting these as future orders or cascades?
You can't have any hybrids for the 126 (Only when a few are spare and usually covering breakdowns/and peak and eveing service) as they were for the 1!
And i can't see WN gaining any brand new buses anytime soon let alone hybrids.
I would imagine some B7TL ALX400 might go to WB from PB when the new E400 enter service there.
I would imagine when the E400 enter service at BC Y-TOH tridents will cadcade to YW to replace presidents. Maybe WA aswell to replace B10L's.
I think they are the most likley options although they could go to WN to replace the Spectras (This probably won't happen as Spectras are here till early 2014 at the earliest).
Also PE could do with extra deckers for routes like the 120, 140/241 anf 246
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 16, 2013, 10:23:48 AM
You can't have any hybrids for the 126 (Only when a few are spare and usually covering breakdowns/and peak and eveing service) as they were for the 1!
And i can't see WN gaining any brand new buses anytime soon let alone hybrids.
I would imagine some B7TL ALX400 might go to WB from PB when the new E400 enter service there.
I would imagine when the E400 enter service at BC Y-TOH tridents will cadcade to YW to replace presidents. Maybe WA aswell to replace B10L's.
I think they are the most likley options although they could go to WN to replace the Spectras (This probably won't happen as Spectras are here till early 2014 at the earliest).
Also PE could do with extra deckers for routes like the 120, 140/241 anf 246
I couldn't see the 120/140 getting extra deckers, with the investment in the B7RLEs last year.
About the 246, Presidents might be more likely than Tridents if this was to happen because they are out of Birmingham, with the Y-TOH Tridents still been used on Birmingham routes at Yardley Wood. I would think the Presidents will be in service for a few more years yet, with them all extensively refurbished in 2007-2009.
I could see West Brom gaining either ALX400 or Geminis of Perry Barr to start to withdraw O405Ns. With most of the Presidents leaving West Brom last year, I wouldn't think they would get any back
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 16, 2013, 10:23:48 AM
I would imagine when the E400 enter service at BC Y-TOH tridents will cadcade to YW to replace presidents. Maybe WA aswell to replace B10L's.
I could see that Coventry could be candidate for some Y-TOH tridents to replace 1523 - 1628 range. They could transfer 4199-02 & 4218. Two of the are in TWM livery and one of them refurbished more than a year ago.
I couldn't see the 120/140 getting extra deckers, with the investment in the B7RLEs last year.
About the 246, Presidents might be more likely than Tridents if this was to happen because they are out of Birmingham, with the Y-TOH Tridents still been used on Birmingham routes at Yardley Wood. I would think the Presidents will be in service for a few more years yet, with them all extensively refurbished in 2007-2009.
I could see West Brom gaining either ALX400 or Geminis of Perry Barr to start to withdraw O405Ns. With most of the Presidents leaving West Brom last year, I wouldn't think they would get any back
[/quote]
The 246 is an awkward one, as under the Brierley Hill Bus Network Transformation, it is likely to get talking buses, Can't see PE wanting to dedicate particular Enviros or B7RLEs to the route as this would restrict there use to much. Therefore it would be a choice between Mercs or bring in Deckers from another garage?
Quote from: Sayeed_M on June 16, 2013, 10:48:13 AM
I could see that Coventry could be candidate for some Y-TOH tridents to replace 1523 - 1628 range. They could transfer 4199-02 & 4218. Two of the are in TWM livery and one of them refurbished more than a year ago.
I would love to seen 4218 return to Coventry! It was only in service there for a few months before its fire, and it never returned
What is now the latest news on the balance of the NX 2013 bus oder
I beleive 130 new vehicles are planed this year (this was before the Centro anouncement of 300 new buses)
Delivered
9 Volvo Hybrid WN
21 E400 Hybrid WN/Dundee
34 E400 WA/CV/BC
24 Volvo B7 PE/CV
1 Volvo B7 CY (Is this part of the 2013 order?)
Total 89
Outstanding
Balance 41
26 E400 PB?
15 ??
Quote from: Wolves256 on July 19, 2013, 02:44:08 PM
What is now the latest news on the balance of the NX 2013 bus oder
I beleive 130 new vehicles are planed this year (this was before the Centro anouncement of 300 new buses)
Delivered
9 Volvo Hybrid WN
21 E400 Hybrid WN/Dundee
34 E400 WA/CV/BC
24 Volvo B7 PE/CV
1 Volvo B7 CY (Is this part of the 2013 order?)
Total 89
Outstanding
Balance 41
26 E400 PB?
15 ??
2153 is now purchased and thought to be part of the 2013 order. Not now sure if the balance will be delivered before the next 300 arrive or if they are included in that quantity