New tenders are out,
5/5A Dudley
7 Walsall (Sunday)
8 Walsall (Evening/Sundays)
10 Wolves (Evenings)
18 & 81 Dudley (Evening/Sundays)
19 Dudley
25 Wolves
41 Walsall
41 Q.E Hospital
57 Bilston
64/X64 Amazon Peddimore
69 Walsall (Sundays)
98/99 Solihull
- Apparently the 8 sunday tender for TFWM is only for Walsall - Brownhills, while staffs council has a seperate one for the section to lichfield.
Quote from: EK40 on June 07, 2025, 02:48:20 PMNew tenders are out,
5/5A Dudley
7 Walsall (Sunday)
8 Walsall (Evening/Sundays)
10 Wolves (Evenings)
18 & 81 Dudley (Evening/Sundays)
19 Dudley
25 Wolves
41 Walsall
41 Q.E Hospital
57 Bilston
64/X64 Amazon Peddimore
69 Walsall (Sundays)
98/99 Solihull
- Apparently the 8 sunday tender for TFWM is only for Walsall - Brownhills, while staffs council has a seperate one for the section to lichfield.
Do you have a source for this please?
Curious about the 98/99 in Solihull, and what they're replacing.
Quote from: EK40 on June 07, 2025, 02:48:20 PMNew tenders are out,
5/5A Dudley
7 Walsall (Sunday)
8 Walsall (Evening/Sundays)
10 Wolves (Evenings)
18 & 81 Dudley (Evening/Sundays)
19 Dudley
25 Wolves
41 Walsall
41 Q.E Hospital
57 Bilston
64/X64 Amazon Peddimore
69 Walsall (Sundays)
98/99 Solihull
- Apparently the 8 sunday tender for TFWM is only for Walsall - Brownhills, while staffs council has a seperate one for the section to lichfield.
Is the Walsall 41 the evening journeys that Diamond used to operate, or is it more of the service?
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the 57, as that is being cut back to Wolves to Willenhall from the 15th, because of the current Willenhall works messing with reliability, with no guarantee of restoration of full route, according to TFWM service Changes page.
Given the choice of numbers 98/99, would it be something for north Solihull? Possibly the a9/a10?
Quote from: ellspurs on June 07, 2025, 04:04:33 PMGiven the choice of numbers 98/99, would it be something for north Solihull? Possibly the a9/a10?
My first thought was that they would be Chelmsley Wood routes, given the numbering pattern.
But then I don't really know what goes through TfWM's minds, other A-prefixed routes got numbered into the 6xx series at the start of this year.
Quote from: Stu on June 07, 2025, 03:25:44 PMDo you have a source for this please?
Curious about the 98/99 in Solihull, and what they're replacing.
@Stu - These are correct
Details of changes from expiring contract Service 99 replaces former service A9 Minus Blythe Valley, but now serves Sheldon, Service 98 replaces the link to Heartlands hospital, both services increase service through the Lyndon section of A9 to every 15 minutes.
By "replaces the link to Heartlands Hospital", would that stem from the old 93 route (that got partially assimilated into the 96)? The 41 is listed in the tender list, and I can't think of another service that it would be replacing.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 07, 2025, 04:51:30 PMBy "replaces the link to Heartlands Hospital", would that stem from the old 93 route (that got partially assimilated into the 96)? The 41 is listed in the tender list, and I can't think of another service that it would be replacing.
73 maybe?
Is the 73 tendered?
Quote from: winston on June 07, 2025, 04:26:14 PM@Stu - These are correct
Details of changes from expiring contract Service 99 replaces former service A9 Minus Blythe Valley, but now serves Sheldon, Service 98 replaces the link to Heartlands hospital, both services increase service through the Lyndon section of A9 to every 15 minutes.
would the replacement link to Heartlands be the current 73 ?
QuoteBy "replaces the link to Heartlands Hospital", would that stem from the old 93 route (that got partially assimilated into the 96)? The 41 is listed in the tender list, and I can't think of another service that it would be replacing.
The 73 is being withdrawn
Hopefully they're just changing the route between Solihull and Sheldon as there are large stretches where the 73 is the only route around there.
Where has the choice of service numbers 98 and 99 come from ?
Not long a ago some of the A services were renumbered or replaced by 6xx series of services, so why isn't the 98 and 99 numbered 698 and 699 instead ?
Quote from: ellspurs on June 07, 2025, 05:11:07 PMHopefully they're just changing the route between Solihull and Sheldon as there are large stretches where the 73 is the only route around there.
I'm guessing it will be the 99 that serves most of those parts now/Horrell Road as it goes through Sheldon. Wonder where it will terminate?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 07, 2025, 06:04:46 PMWhere has the choice of service numbers 98 and 99 come from ?
Not long a ago some of the A services were renumbered or replaced by 6xx series of services, so why isn't the 98 and 99 numbered 698 and 699 instead ?
Probably to go with the north Solihull services 94/95/96/97?
Quote from: 2206 on June 07, 2025, 06:08:42 PMI'm guessing it will be the 99 that serves most of those parts now/Horrell Road as it goes through Sheldon. Wonder where it will terminate?
If they think that there's too many services going into Solihull, then perhaps Chelmsley Wood? Could be the start of setting services in place for when The Interchange opens in a few years. Either that or it follows the 98/a9 route between Solihull and Sheldon, then shoots of towards Heartlands Hospital from there.
73 is Probably going to merged with other routes to create the 98/99
Will 98/99 serve shard end/castle brom. That section of the a9 is quite well used
Quote from: ellspurs on June 07, 2025, 06:58:58 PMProbably to go with the north Solihull services 94/95/96/97?
If they think that there's too many services going into Solihull, then perhaps Chelmsley Wood? Could be the start of setting services in place for when The Interchange opens in a few years. Either that or it follows the 98/a9 route between Solihull and Sheldon, then shoots of towards Heartlands Hospital from there.
Maybe something like
98 Solihull - Lyndon - Yardley Swan - Yardley Yew Tree - Heartlands
99 Solihull - Lyndon - Sheldon - then wherever this terminates
I'd guess as it says 98/99 will give a 15 minute Solihull - Lyndon frequency.
With the 41, I heard there was a suggestion for a route change back to where the old 36 used to take, which was going onto fox hollies road, taking a left onto mayfield road down knights road and take a right into Warwick road, and for the one running towards QE to take a left onto Tyseley lane, and follow the previously mentioned route.
Quote from: Westy on June 07, 2025, 03:30:45 PMIs the Walsall 41 the evening journeys that Diamond used to operate, or is it more of the service?
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the 57, as that is being cut back to Wolves to Willenhall from the 15th, because of the current Willenhall works messing with reliability, with no guarantee of restoration of full route, according to TFWM service Changes page.
The 41 which Diamond operated is a Walsall based route, previously numbered 341. This is another route entirely based in Solihull/East Birmingham.
Quote from: EK40 on June 07, 2025, 02:48:20 PMNew tenders are out,
5/5A Dudley
7 Walsall (Sunday)
8 Walsall (Evening/Sundays)
10 Wolves (Evenings)
18 & 81 Dudley (Evening/Sundays)
19 Dudley
25 Wolves
41 Walsall
41 Q.E Hospital
57 Bilston
64/X64 Amazon Peddimore
69 Walsall (Sundays)
98/99 Solihull
- Apparently the 8 sunday tender for TFWM is only for Walsall - Brownhills, while staffs council has a seperate one for the section to lichfield.
Id love to know where you got this info considering some of these "new" tenders are already tendered unless you are on abt the renewal of the tender.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on June 08, 2025, 10:00:38 AMThe 41 which Diamond operated is a Walsall based route, previously numbered 341. This is another route entirely based in Solihull/East Birmingham.
Yes, I know there's 2 41's mentioned.
I'm only interested in the Walsall one.
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 12:06:32 PMId love to know where you got this info considering some of these "new" tenders are already tendered unless you are on abt the renewal of the tender.
New tender means that the route is available for operators to bid on.
Quote from: frostjay974 on June 08, 2025, 12:39:13 PMNew tender means that the route is available for operators to bid on.
Ok but then its not really new is it
Its just going up for another round of tendering to whoever wins it
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 12:51:43 PMOk but then its not really new is it
Its just going up for another round of tendering to whoever wins it
For some routes it could be the last tenders until franchising comes in.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on June 08, 2025, 12:54:32 PMFor some routes it could be the last tenders until franchising comes in.
Yeah but that doesnt make it new.
As with that logic,
The carolean 3 is a completely different route to the nxwm 3 When they arnt.
If it already exists as a render in my opinion its just going back on the market unless theres changes ie when we had the 14 14A and 24 into the 6 routes we have now.
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 01:14:30 PMYeah but that doesnt make it new.
As with that logic,
The carolean 3 is a completely different route to the nxwm 3 When they arnt.
If it already exists as a render in my opinion its just going back on the market unless theres changes ie when we had the 14 14A and 24 into the 6 routes we have now.
The NX Dudley 19 is the full daytime route now up for tender, it is currently commercial
Quote from: winston on June 08, 2025, 01:30:03 PMThe NX Dudley 19 is the full daytime route now up for tender, it is currently commercial
Was primarily on abt QE 41 the 5/5A and 18/81 which unless i am mistaken are already tendered
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 12:06:32 PMId love to know where you got this info considering some of these "new" tenders are already tendered unless you are on abt the renewal of the tender.
new as in newly put up for tender, if it was for completely new routes id have put that tbf, the only new route is the 98/99 in solihull
Would I be hopeful in thinking is 98/99 is going to be a 15 min service from Solihull via Lyndon, Sheldon and Horrell Rd until Sedgemere Rd then one continues the 73 route to Heartlands (approx 55 min trip) and the other takes the A9 route from there to Fordbridge and extends to Chelmsley Wood (approx 70 min trip).
Quote from: EK40 on June 08, 2025, 03:29:04 PMnew as in newly put up for tender, if it was for completely new routes id have put that tbf, the only new route is the 98/99 in solihull
"Newly up for tender"
Didnt know the 5/5a were commercial until November
Quote from: JPC on June 08, 2025, 03:32:07 PMWould I be hopeful in thinking is 98/99 is going to be a 15 min service from Solihull via Lyndon, Sheldon and Horrell Rd until Sedgemere Rd then one continues the 73 route to Heartlands (approx 55 min trip) and the other takes the A9 route from there to Fordbridge and extends to Chelmsley Wood (approx 70 min trip).
Could be but it would also probably make sense for the 98 to maintain the direct Lyndon-Swan link that has existed for years and then cover the Yew Tree to Heartlands section of the 73, while the 99 could do something like that
There also used to be quite a few passengers who used that link.
Also it's not the first time a 99 has operated in that area actually.
Quote from: 2206 on June 08, 2025, 03:54:45 PMCould be but it would also probably make sense for the 98 to maintain the direct Lyndon-Swan link that has existed for years and then cover the Yew Tree to Heartlands section of the 73, while the 99 could do something like that
There also used to be quite a few passengers who used that link.
Also it's not the first time a 99 has operated in that area actually.
History Of 98's and 99's
98
City-Kingstanding (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Chelmsley-Marston Green
Chelmsley Hopper (extended to and from Solihull for a short time
Sheldon-Ward End (later extended to ASDA Small Heath to replacing 28S)
Ward End-Small Heath (replacing 24 or 28A)
City-QE-Northfield-Rednal-Rubery
99
City-Rubery (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Bacons End-Chelmsley Wood North (City section withdrawn 1986, re-instated via Small Heath in 1989.
Birmingham-Halesowen-Merry Hill (replacing daytime 139's)
Acocks Green (not so sure)- Lea Village
There may be more !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 08, 2025, 05:27:23 PMAcocks Green (not so sure)- Lea Village
It also did Shirley - Castle Bromwich (Morrisons) when it was at Acocks Green garage.
Replaced by the 58 & then subsequently A9.
Also 99 City - QE - Harborne - Quinton - Halesowen. Old 636
I miss the 99 as it used to give me direct bus access to Heartlands Hospital from Smith's Wood.
Quote from: 2206 on June 08, 2025, 03:54:45 PMCould be but it would also probably make sense for the 98 to maintain the direct Lyndon-Swan link that has existed for years and then cover the Yew Tree to Heartlands section of the 73, while the 99 could do something like that
There also used to be quite a few passengers who used that link.
Also it's not the first time a 99 has operated in that area actually.
One of the buses would need to go to the Kingshurst Fordbridge Road depot otherwise it'd leave the back half of Kingshurst without a bus connection.
Do they still have that "minimum distance to walk to a busstop in an urban area" in the TfWM charter? I remember it being 400m or something in the Centro days.
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 03:42:55 PM"Newly up for tender"
Didnt know the 5/5a were commercial until November
They're not.
Quote from: winston on June 08, 2025, 05:50:33 PMThey're not.
So they arnt new tenders they are just going back onto the market for bidding
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 06:04:53 PMSo they arnt new tenders they are just going back onto the market for bidding
Some are newly tendered routes, some aren't.
Quote from: winston on June 08, 2025, 06:06:44 PMSome are newly tendered routes, some aren't.
The way it was worded implied all of them are newly tendered
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 06:21:31 PMThe way it was worded implied all of them are newly tendered
Technically that is correct.
Any contract comes to an end, at which point it becomes a new contract put out to tender, which anyone can bid on.
QuoteSo they arnt new tenders they are just going back onto the market for bidding
When a tender is won, it's operated for a certain period of time. It's then tendered again so anyone can bid on it. The 5/5A have been rendered since the late 205 days wouldn't be surprised if they are renumbered back to the 205
Quote from: tombzy on June 08, 2025, 06:21:31 PMThe way it was worded implied all of them are newly tendered
Does it really matter.
And some of the routes have had their tender docs merge, so theoretically they're new tenders in that way as some were 1 early morning, and then the rest Eves and Sun, so TfWM occasionally put them on 1 spec.
Ironically the Dudley 18 is two different tender specs, as the E&S is interworked with the 81, which during the day is its own tender as well as thats on the WN53
QuoteHistory Of 98's and 99's
98
City-Kingstanding (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Chelmsley-Marston Green
Chelmsley Hopper (extended to and from Solihull for a short time
Sheldon-Ward End (later extended to ASDA Small Heath to replacing 28S)
Ward End-Small Heath (replacing 24 or 28A)
City-QE-Northfield-Rednal-Rubery
99
City-Rubery (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Bacons End-Chelmsley Wood North (City section withdrawn 1986, re-instated via Small Heath in 1989.
Birmingham-Halesowen-Merry Hill (replacing daytime 139's)
Acocks Green (not so sure)- Lea Village
There may be more !
There was also a 99 which went from Shirley to Lyndon
Quote from: BK63 YWP on June 08, 2025, 06:42:20 PMWhen a tender is won, it's operated for a certain period of time. It's then tendered again so anyone can bid on it. The 5/5A have been rendered since the late 205 days wouldn't be surprised if they are renumbered back to the 205
Unlikely since with a few exceptions most routes in the area have "local" one or two digit numbers (excluding variations such as 16A) and in my opinion there would be no logic in renumbering it back to 205.
QuoteUnlikely since with a few exceptions most routes in the area have "local" one or two digit numbers (excluding variations such as 16A) and in my opinion there would be no logic in renumbering it back to 205.
It'll be back with franchising.
Quote from: BK63 YWP on June 10, 2025, 12:22:23 PMIt'll be back with franchising.
Will it, what makes you think that ?
Benefits of Franchising?
Solve the driver shortage, most common reason for missing buses? - Unlikely, it has got worse in many parts of Manchester.
Solve buses being delayed due to traffic problems? - No, only bus priority will do that whoever is running the buses.
Stop shareholders taking money for a public service? - No, in the current climate it will probably increase the profits of private companies.
Improve service provision? - only if a lot more money is available to pay for all the new unprofitable services.
Make fares cheaper? - only if more taxpayers money is used.
Give one man a massive ego boost? - Yes, he can boast he personal 'controls' all the buses
Quote from: Tony on June 10, 2025, 02:23:53 PMBenefits of Franchising?
Solve the driver shortage, most common reason for missing buses? - Unlikely, it has got worse in many parts of Manchester.
Solve buses being delayed due to traffic problems? - No, only bus priority will do that whoever is running the buses.
Stop shareholders taking money for a public service? - No, in the current climate it will probably increase the profits of private companies.
Improve service provision? - only if a lot more money is available to pay for all the new unprofitable services.
Make fares cheaper? - only if more taxpayers money is used.
Give one man a massive ego boost? - Yes, he can boast he personal 'controls' all the buses
This is something I knew that was going to happen make people think something is changing but in theory things are getting worse, I suspected this when he said Franchising is going to reduce congestion. Richard Parker hopes enough people believe him so he can try and get a 2nd term
Sorry for the previous post it glitched out, but how will the 25 be affected im a bit dumb and dont get it all
Quote from: Callum on June 13, 2025, 03:51:45 PMSorry for the previous post it glitched out, but how will the 25 be affected im a bit dumb and dont get it all
The contract goes out to tender, which operators then bid on. Whichever operator wins the contract, then they will take it over.
The new contract for the 25 doesn't commence until 4th January 2026.
Quote from: Stu on June 13, 2025, 06:35:03 PMThe contract goes out to tender, which operators then bid on. Whichever operator wins the contract, then they will take it over.
The new contract for the 25 doesn't commence until 4th January 2026.
This might be a dumb question, but aren't the tendered routes basically ran by TFWM, is there any musts that the 25 must follow route wise etc
Quote from: Callum on June 13, 2025, 06:37:27 PMThis might be a dumb question, but aren't the tendered routes basically ran by TFWM, is there any musts that the 25 must follow route wise etc
The contract specifies the route and timetable, unless an 'alternative' bid is proposed and accepted.
In a sense, these TfWM tendered contracts are 'diet franchising' - the main difference being that operators collect all revenue, and thus the subsidy received is just a contribution towards the cost of providing that service. In the proposed franchise model, the contract price will cover all operating costs and allow a small profit margin, as TfWM will be collecting all the fare revenues.
Is it still the Sunday service that's tendered on the Wolves 25?
Quote from: Westy on June 13, 2025, 08:58:05 PMIs it still the Sunday service that's tendered on the Wolves 25?
I believe that is still the case, yes.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 08, 2025, 05:27:23 PMHistory Of 98's and 99's
98
City-Kingstanding (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Chelmsley-Marston Green
Chelmsley Hopper (extended to and from Solihull for a short time
Sheldon-Ward End (later extended to ASDA Small Heath to replacing 28S)
Ward End-Small Heath (replacing 24 or 28A)
City-QE-Northfield-Rednal-Rubery
99
City-Rubery (Limited Stop)
City-Bordesley Green-Lea Hall-Bacons End-Chelmsley Wood North (City section withdrawn 1986, re-instated via Small Heath in 1989.
Birmingham-Halesowen-Merry Hill (replacing daytime 139's)
Acocks Green (not so sure)- Lea Village
There may be more !
the city centre - rubery great park 98 was a one of a kind bus, i think maybe the only one i never had a problem with