Why do fleet numbers ascend the way they do?
Why are they 4 digits?
Why do electric vehicles lose a digit for the E?
Why do hydrogen vehicles not for the H?
Why do hydrogen vehicles start at 1000 instead of 0 like every other trend?
Why are there some gaps in some fleet numbers, e.g 7000-7500?
Why did E200s specifically get 3 digit fleet numbers when there are vehicles older than them that have higher numbers (since we're lead to believe (the most discernible trend) the older the bus, the lower the fleet number) Just some questions I've had over the months.
Quote from: hemmy on May 13, 2025, 07:11:29 PMWhy do fleet numbers ascend the way they do? Why are they 4 digits? Why do electric vehicles lose a digit for the E? Why do hydrogen vehicles not for the H?, Why do hydrogen vehicles start at 1000 instead of 0 like every other trend? why are there some gaps in some fleet numbers e.g 7000-7500? Why did E200s specifically get 3 digit fleet numbers when there are vehicles older than them that have higher numbers (since we're lead to believe (the most discernible trend) the older the bus, the lower the fleet number) Just some questions I've had over the months.
Vehicles have to have fleet numbers that haven't been used since the current engineering system was implemented in the 1990s, so includes many Lynx and Metrobuses. Using the E and H allows for repeats in this system, but we can't have two current vehicles with identical numbers ignoring the letters because the radio and ticket machines don't recognise letters, so you can't have an E001 and an H001 in use at the same time as they would both be just 1 to the radio and ticket machine.
When the current system for diesels was introduced the smaller the bus the lower the fleetnumber, so basically less than 30 seats were 201 to 500, 31-40 seats were 501 to 1000. Large single decks were 1001 upwards, low floor doubles were 4001 upwards, Hybrids were 5001 upwards, bending were 6001 upwards. When all 4xxx were used doubles moved to spare 6xxx
Quote from: Tony on May 13, 2025, 07:23:22 PMVehicles have to have fleet numbers that haven't been used since the current engineering system was implemented in the 1990s, so includes many Lynx and Metrobuses. Using the E and H allows for repeats in this system, but we can't have two current vehicles with identical numbers ignoring the letters because the radio and ticket machines don't recognise letters, so you can't have an E001 and an H001 in use at the same time as they would both be just 1 to the radio and ticket machine.
When the current system for diesels was introduced the smaller the bus the lower the fleetnumber, so basically less than 30 seats were 201 to 500, 31-40 seats were 501 to 1000. Large single decks were 1001 upwards, low floor doubles were 4001 upwards, Hybrids were 5001 upwards, bending were 6001 upwards. When all 4xxx were used doubles moved to spare 6xxx
That is so nuanced, quirky and historic, I love it, thank you for your reply
QuoteVehicles have to have fleet numbers that haven't been used since the current engineering system was implemented in the 1990s, so includes many Lynx and Metrobuses. Using the E and H allows for repeats in this system, but we can't have two current vehicles with identical numbers ignoring the letters because the radio and ticket machines don't recognise letters, so you can't have an E001 and an H001 in use at the same time as they would both be just 1 to the radio and ticket machine.
When the current system for diesels was introduced the smaller the bus the lower the fleetnumber, so basically less than 30 seats were 201 to 500, 31-40 seats were 501 to 1000. Large single decks were 1001 upwards, low floor doubles were 4001 upwards, Hybrids were 5001 upwards, bending were 6001 upwards. When all 4xxx were used doubles moved to spare 6xxx
Does that mean that the ex Dundee and London fleet numbers can't be used for new vehicles?
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 13, 2025, 08:11:18 PMDoes that mean that the ex Dundee and London fleet numbers can't be used for new vehicles?
Yes, unless they have a letter added
Quote from: Tony on May 13, 2025, 07:23:22 PMVehicles have to have fleet numbers that haven't been used since the current engineering system was implemented in the 1990s, so includes many Lynx and Metrobuses. Using the E and H allows for repeats in this system, but we can't have two current vehicles with identical numbers ignoring the letters because the radio and ticket machines don't recognise letters, so you can't have an E001 and an H001 in use at the same time as they would both be just 1 to the radio and ticket machine.
When the current system for diesels was introduced the smaller the bus the lower the fleetnumber, so basically less than 30 seats were 201 to 500, 31-40 seats were 501 to 1000. Large single decks were 1001 upwards, low floor doubles were 4001 upwards, Hybrids were 5001 upwards, bending were 6001 upwards. When all 4xxx were used doubles moved to spare 6xxx
There have been some nuances over the years with Leyland Nationals being numbered 6XXX then reverting to the 1XXX series. Weren't 9XXX saved for training buses at one time?
Quote from: Wumpty on May 13, 2025, 09:41:06 PMThere have been some nuances over the years with Leyland Nationals being numbered 6XXX then reverting to the 1XXX series. Weren't 9XXX saved for training buses at one time?
I believe so. The former Timesaver Metrobus trainers certainly were.
In 1996 I remember fleet numbers being very close together as national 1505 1507 would carry it in 1996 the same numbers 1501-1514 brand new gas buses in 1997.
Metroriders carrying 6xx numbers in 1998 then brand new Volvo B6s carrying 6xx numbers in 1999.
Don't think fleet numbers have ever been that close in time since.
Quote from: Wumpty on May 13, 2025, 09:41:06 PMThere have been some nuances over the years with Leyland Nationals being numbered 6XXX then reverting to the 1XXX series. Weren't 9XXX saved for training buses at one time?
The nationals were in the original WMPTE series where all buses were just in the same numerical order regardless of type. These just carried on from ex BCT vehicles. So depending on delivery, they were in 44**/45**/47**/68** and 70** series. (All were renumbered in the 1*** series in 1985).
You may have also noticed the large jump from 47** to 63** in PTE buses. This was because of the acquisition of Midland Red vehicles who had many vehicles in the 48** to 62** sequence, so it avoided duplication.
Quote from: Lynx1103 on May 13, 2025, 10:08:17 PMIn 1996 I remember fleet numbers being very close together as national 1505 1507 would carry it in 1996 the same numbers 1501-1514 brand new gas buses in 1997.
Talking of sequences, fleet numbers would normally match the three digits of the registration number, though there were some oddities where they didn't.
Former Leyland National GOK618N was actually numbered 1518, then you'd have former Yourbus and Metrowest buses in the 1XXX allocated fleet numbers to continue this logic, like STJ34T allocated 1734.
We thought of trying this at Choice but because the used bus market was so sporadic, we ended up with two buses with the same registration digits so couldn't apply it.
Quote from: Lynx1103 on May 13, 2025, 10:08:17 PMIn 1996 I remember fleet numbers being very close together as national 1505 1507 would carry it in 1996 the same numbers 1501-1514 brand new gas buses in 1997.
Metroriders carrying 6xx numbers in 1998 then brand new Volvo B6s carrying 6xx numbers in 1999.
Don't think fleet numbers have ever been that close in time since.
A decade before - in Coventry we had for a few years, 1xxx numbered double deckers and single decks (the 68xx Leyland Nationals from 1978 for starters - although Coventry did eventually get a few 1974 examples, not sure if any of those arrived before the 1985 renumbering though). A few ex-Coventry Transport East Lancs bodied Fleetlines survived long enough to make it to Deregulation, meaning a few operated from the then new Wheatley Street garage.
WMPTE renumbered all remaining ex-CT Fleetlines (and most of the earlier Leyland Atlanteans dating from 1964/5) into the 1xxx series from November 1979. By that point all front-engined Daimler CVG6's had gone and a fair few of the 1966 batch of Fleetlines (No's 1-22) meaning that 1001-1142 inclusive never happened - but a good percentage of ex-Coventry rear engined buses were still very much around in 1979/80.
Quote from: paulb1973 on May 14, 2025, 02:54:27 PMA decade before - in Coventry we had for a few years, 1xxx numbered double deckers and single decks (the 68xx Leyland Nationals from 1978 for starters - although Coventry did eventually get a few 1974 examples, not sure if any of those arrived before the 1985 renumbering though). A few ex-Coventry Transport East Lancs bodied Fleetlines survived long enough to make it to Deregulation, meaning a few operated from the then new Wheatley Street garage.
WMPTE renumbered all remaining ex-CT Fleetlines (and most of the earlier Leyland Atlanteans dating from 1964/5) into the 1xxx series from November 1979. By that point all front-engined Daimler CVG6's had gone and a fair few of the 1966 batch of Fleetlines (No's 1-22) meaning that 1001-1142 inclusive never happened - but a good percentage of ex-Coventry rear engined buses were still very much around in 1979/80.
And speaking of Coventry, the half cabs transferred to AG also were renumbered 1*** because apparently ***Y was mistaken for ***7 by admin staff.