I've always wondered why there's no bus stations in Birmingham and Solihull County compared to the Black Country who has a bus station in any town, where as places like Solihull, Chelmsley Wood, Yardley Wood Etc.
I've always thought of that too, it's so much more convenient when the bus terminates at one massive bus station as opposed to lots of mini bus stops around the town. That's why I've always like bus stations like WB for example.
Quote from: BBS on October 10, 2024, 02:50:56 PMI've always wondered why there's no bus stations in Birmingham and Solihull County compared to the Black Country who has a bus station in any town, where as places like Solihull, Chelmsley Wood, Yardley Wood Etc.
Due to History
Birmingham City Transport didn't need bus stations for its routes, whereas Midland Red were a big fan of bus stations as its routes were longer and less frequent, so gave people better waiting and easier interchange.
QuoteDue to History
Birmingham City Transport didn't need bus stations for its routes, whereas Midland Red were a big fan of bus stations as its routes were longer and less frequent, so gave people better waiting and easier interchange.
I see that, but since NXWM now has the upper hand of the West Midlands, imo there should be some sort of bus stations in places that a lot of routes serve, particularly Solihull & City Centre it self. It's usually a pain when you take for example the 50, and need to catch a route like the 74, or some route on colmore row.
Quote from: BBS on October 10, 2024, 03:01:08 PMI see that, but since NXWM now has the upper hand of the West Midlands, imo there should be some sort of bus stations in places that a lot of routes serve, particularly Solihull & City Centre it self. It's usually a pain when you take for example the 50, and need to catch a route like the 74, or some route on colmore row.
Bus stops and bus stations are nothing to do with NXWM
What buildings do you propose knocking down to get a site big enough to build a bus station in Birmingham or Solihull?
QuoteBus stops and bus stations are nothing to do with NXWM
What buildings do you propose knocking down to get a site big enough to build a bus station in Birmingham or Solihull?
That whole empty section of Bradford Street where the old car parks used to be, that space has been empty for a while. Not sure if anyone's taken it, on terms of Solihull why not develop something that's similar to what's Dudley going for, an interchange for trams and buses, but solihull can combine its train and bus station too using the space it already is using
Quote from: BBS on October 10, 2024, 03:29:41 PMThat whole empty section of Bradford Street where the old car parks used to be, that space has been empty for a while. Not sure if anyone's taken it, on terms of Solihull why not develop something that's similar to what's Dudley going for, an interchange for trams and buses, but solihull can combine its train and bus station too using the space it already is using
Bradford Street, are you serious? So passengers from the east of the city don't even get a bus that goes into the city centre proper?
Are you proposing removing all the grass an trees opposite the station? I'd live to see the reaction to a planning application for that.
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 03:05:53 PMBus stops and bus stations are nothing to do with NXWM
What buildings do you propose knocking down to get a site big enough to build a bus station in Birmingham or Solihull?
The grotty Dale End/Albert Street multi-storey would be a shout. How the new tram extension is going there and that monstrosity is staying up.
Quote from: Jack on October 10, 2024, 04:29:22 PMThe grotty Dale End/Albert Street multi-storey would be a shout. How the new tram extension is going there and that monstrosity is staying up.
That car park is about 1/4 of the size you would need. Think Colmore Row, Moor Street Queensway and The Priory Queens way, and then add all that space into one site
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 03:05:53 PMBus stops and bus stations are nothing to do with NXWM
What buildings do you propose knocking down to get a site big enough to build a bus station in Birmingham or Solihull
Solihull Station has always been regarded as a bus interchange plus most solihull buses serve Poplar Rd anyway so all stops are close together anyway
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 04:12:35 PMBradford Street, are you serious? So passengers from the east of the city don't even get a bus that goes into the city centre proper?
Are you proposing removing all the grass an trees opposite the station? I'd live to see the reaction to a planning application for that.
why not reopen the bus station on Station St exit on Market St as before but RIGHT Turn only out of the bus station ?
its daft thge way they say take the bus to Birmingham, leave the car behind, but then they are pushing buses further and further out of the City
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 10, 2024, 06:22:01 PMwhy not reopen the bus station on Station St exit on Market St as before but RIGHT Turn only out of the bus station ?
its daft thge way they say take the bus to Birmingham, leave the car behind, but then they are pushing buses further and further out of the City
How would you reopen that without demolishing the whole new Bullring?
That, even in it's heyday only served about 10% of Birmingham's buses, so you would need about 10 times that amount of land.
Quote from: BBS on October 10, 2024, 02:50:56 PMI've always wondered why there's no bus stations in Birmingham and Solihull County compared to the Black Country who has a bus station in any town, where as places like Solihull, Chelmsley Wood, Yardley Wood Etc.
Define 'bus station' then.
Although they tend to get called 'interchanges' now :rolleyes: , there's definitely what you would consider 'bus stations' at Solihull station and town centre, Chelmsley Wood shopping centre, Marston Green station, Shirley station, and possibly others.
Having every route terminate along the old inner ring-road is very easy and convenient. Additionally, a lot of vacant land within the city centre is earmarked for development in the future.
Quote from: Ronnoc on October 10, 2024, 07:26:37 PMHaving every route terminate along the old inner ring-road is very easy and convenient. Additionally, a lot of vacant land within the city centre is earmarked for development in the future.
The Priory Queensway, Moor Street (not Queensway) and Colmore Row aren't the old inner ring road
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 06:32:40 PMHow would you reopen that without demolishing the whole new Bullring?
That, even in it's heyday only served about 10% of Birmingham's buses, so you would need about 10 times that amount of land.
Exactly. Wolverhampton bus station (or interchange) can't accommodate all the bus services in the city and it doesn't have even half the services in Birmingham.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 10, 2024, 07:50:32 PMExactly. Wolverhampton bus station (or interchange) can't accommodate all the bus services in the city and it doesn't have even half the services in Birmingham.
Didn't it use to, or am I imagining that. The 1 used to serve the new bus station and it doesn't anymore used to serve the stand the 10 does H I think
As a matter of interest how's the progress going with Dudley bus station
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 07:28:52 PMThe Priory Queensway, Moor Street (not Queensway) and Colmore Row aren't the old inner ring road
Oops, I forgot Priory Queensway wasn't part of the old ring road.
However, I still stand on the point that using many parts of the inner ring-road as the terminus for many routes is much better than a bus station.
Quote from: Ronnoc on October 10, 2024, 09:52:32 PMOops, I forgot Priory Queensway wasn't part of the old ring road.
However, I still stand on the point that using many parts of the inner ring-road as the terminus for many routes is much better than a bus station.
The only buses that terminate on the old ring road are the Stratford Road services and the X21/2
Not sure why anyone would even think Bus Stations are a good idea given the white elephants that are Wolverhampton Bus Station and Coventry Pool Meadow!
QuoteDefine 'bus station' then.
Although they tend to get called 'interchanges' now :rolleyes: , there's definitely what you would consider 'bus stations' at Solihull station and town centre, Chelmsley Wood shopping centre, Marston Green station, Shirley station, and possibly others.
By bus stations I mean how there's Pool meadow, Wolverhampton bus station & Walsall. And how is Shirley station even considered as a bus station, when there's only 2 services serving it
Quote from: BBS on October 10, 2024, 11:02:17 PMAnd how is Shirley station even considered as a bus station, when there's only 2 services serving it
I guess you could include the stops at Birmingham International. With the indoor seating/waiting area, access to rail services/air rail link/toilets on the upper level.
Currently 4 services from there 96, 97A, X1, X12.
Then you have the likes of Kidderminster bus station. where it's basically just a collection of bus shelters.
I have to say Solihull doesn't need a bus station, as the town centre stops are close enough together and on a buses-only road.
Chelmsley Wood Interchange looks like it could have been made a bus station, but it seems to work well enough as it is.
There are too many bus services in Birmingham city centre to make a centrally-located bus station possible. There's no point in having an off-centre bus station.
Quote from: Tony on October 10, 2024, 09:55:16 PMThe only buses that terminate on the old ring road are the Stratford Road services and the X21/2
and the 61/63?
Darlaston used to be listed as Darlaston Bus Station it has a collection of Stands all used to be mismatched for years the two Walsall Stands were The Old Blue and Orange the two 79's stands were Centro Yellow and Green, Now it's all shelters apart from DA which had that new Advert Board fitted so lost it's Shelter Wall so now is open facing the Road, I believe it is now called Darlaston Interchange 6 services serve it 4 from NX running every 6 minutes combined and every 10 minutes or so and two hourly services one from Diamond and one from Walsall Community Transport.
Other large cities in the UK don't have Bus Stations either I may be wrong but Leeds doesn't appear to have a Bus Station, Edinburgh or Glasgow don't either, York doesn't, Norwich doesn't some of these are smaller than Birmingham, not sure about Newcastle, Manchester has two but even then I'm not sure if all of it's services terminate there. Liverpool has one at least but again not sure if all of the services there use it.
Birmingham doesn't need a bus station all the service that go the same way or to the same place but serving different areas are all near each other. Coventry Road X1, X2, 60 all stop near each other, Walsall Road/PB/Walsall buses all stop near each other 51, X51, 997, 934, 935, 936, 997, 52, 907, X3, X4, X5, X14, 33. Services that served Hockley stop near each other 16, 16A 74, 101, 7 I think stops near them to. Then I think the 80, 82, 87 Stop near each other. It's actually fairly easy to get to where your going more than in say Wolverhampton Bus Station
At Wolverhampton Bus Station none of the services that stop near each other go to the same place for example Stand R is the 8/X8 Birmingham and Dudley, Stand S is the 79 to West Bromwich, Via Bilston, Darlaston and Wednesbury, Stand T is the 32/33 Northwood Park then Stand Q is the 529 to Walsall, opposite is the 59 the stand behind makes sense as the 9 and 69 serve the area as the 59, but then opposite them is the 82 on the other side by the Codsall Services is the 25 which follows the 82 at times.
To make it easier the Bilston Services should be together the 79, 25 and 82, The Dudley services should be together 27, 27A, 81, 8, X8, The 529 should be kept where it is as it's in a good location near the other Walsall services. The 15 and 16 share a stand the 2 should go with the 32 and 33 as they serve Bushbury. The 5 and 6 serve the same areas before spliting so there fine that leaves the 11, 10/10A, Arriva 9, 53, 63/64/65 all to serve the other side of the Bus Station the 11 could probably be paired with a route if I thought about it.
If you were new to Wolverhampton and you wanted to go to say Moseley or Willenhall you would expect the two Willenhall Buses the 25 and 529 to be near each other or if a local said you want a bus going through Bilston well you would see the 79 but you actually want the 82 which stops no where near the 79 eventhough they go through Bilston and even when I think about it The 82 could be put with the 529 and 25 as the 82 crosses the 529 Route near Portobello. It's all confusing if you don't know the layout or the maps.
Birmingham makes more sense as if I needed to go to Perry Barr and was New I would know the 51, 33, 907, 52 all serve there and stop near each other even the 997, 934 and 935 are around the corner so I would know if I saw a bus to Walsall that wasn't the X51 then I should go through Perry Barr or that a Perry Barr Service stops near that one so I would know that's where I wait.
The 25 serves Goldthorn Park which is why its with the 27/27A services as they serve the same estate. (The 61 should be moved there too but I believe there is a timetable clash).
There is also the practicality of congestion caused by buses blocking stands which is why the 2 was moved away from by the 32/33 stands although now Lets Go don't operate the 32/33 things should be easier.
The 82 can't share the 529 stand as it would cause too much congestion.
Regarding Black Country Bus Spotter's assertion about other cities, above, several of those cited do, in fact, have such facilities.
Leeds Bus & Coach Station, Dyer Street, is served by more than 30 bus services plus NX and Megabus coaches.
Edinburgh Bus Station, Elder Street, is served by NX, City link and other longer-distance buses by Stagecoach, Border etc.
Glasgow's Buchanan Bus Station has 57 departure stands for Flixbus, NX, Citylink, Hannon and Megabus coaches and more than 40 bus services.
Norwich Bus Station, Surrey Street, serves NX, Megabus and out-of-town services of First, Konectbus and Sanders.
Newcastle has almost adjoining bus stations at Eldon Square and Haymarket served by Arriva and Go North East.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 11, 2024, 12:09:26 PMThe 25 serves Goldthorn Park which is why its with the 27/27A services as they serve the same estate. (The 61 should be moved there too but I believe there is a timetable clash).
There is also the practicality of congestion caused by buses blocking stands which is why the 2 was moved away from by the 32/33 stands although now Lets Go don't operate the 32/33 things should be easier.
The 82 can't share the 529 stand as it would cause too much congestion.
Not stand sharing just in the same area which it already does but you could rearrange it 25, 27/27A, 81, 8/X8 on that side Serving Dudley moving the 5, 6/6A and maybe 9 and 891 to a different side. The 25 should be close to the 529 as well as the services that serve Goldthorn Park, the 82 could also stop near there and the 79. The 529 kept near the 9 and 69, 11 kept where it is maybe, 2, 32 and 33 possibly share a stand. 15/16 kept where they are any spare stands is where the other buses move, the 5, 6/6A kept together the Arriva 9, 10/10A could share a stand as the Compton Road Services maybe the 891 could be paired with the 5/5A as they go similar routes once out of Wolverhampton. 57 could be paired with 82 and the 63/64/65 and 53 moved somewhere else
To put Birmingham into perspective, there's more than 250 departures an hour from the city centre. No bus station anywhere would ever cope with that sort of numbers
Quote from: Smethwickian on October 11, 2024, 05:25:06 PMRegarding Black Country Bus Spotter's assertion about other cities, above, several of those cited do, in fact, have such facilities.
Leeds Bus & Coach Station, Dyer Street, is served by more than 30 bus services plus NX and Megabus coaches.
Edinburgh Bus Station, Elder Street, is served by NX, City link and other longer-distance buses by Stagecoach, Border etc.
Glasgow's Buchanan Bus Station has 57 departure stands for Flixbus, NX, Citylink, Hannon and Megabus coaches and more than 40 bus services.
Norwich Bus Station, Surrey Street, serves NX, Megabus and out-of-town services of First, Konectbus and Sanders.
Newcastle has almost adjoining bus stations at Eldon Square and Haymarket served by Arriva and Go North East.
Most large cities with bus stations tend to use them for coach and long services, with local services having normal city stops, the issue with birmingham being we dont really have much stand out long distance services unlike other cities where you would have for example:
leeds - coastliner and other transdev services which are specially branded with high spec vehicles
nottingham - trentbarton services which as well are branded with high-spec vehicles
bristol - long distance services serving the cities of bath,weston,taunton,yeovil etc... under badgerline and bath city (part of wells) branding
while with birmingham we dont really have any standout intercity services such as these, which would make use of a bus station, and cities that do use bus stations for local services have two or even three interchanges to serve all these services in addition to a pre-existing coach station. and even then these cities still have local services which serve the city only with no bus station.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on October 11, 2024, 06:25:57 PMNot stand sharing just in the same area which it already does but you could rearrange it 25, 27/27A, 81, 8/X8 on that side Serving Dudley moving the 5, 6/6A and maybe 9 and 891 to a different side. The 25 should be close to the 529 as well as the services that serve Goldthorn Park, the 82 could also stop near there and the 79. The 529 kept near the 9 and 69, 11 kept where it is maybe, 2, 32 and 33 possibly share a stand. 15/16 kept where they are any spare stands is where the other buses move, the 5, 6/6A kept together the Arriva 9, 10/10A could share a stand as the Compton Road Services maybe the91 could be paired with the 5/5A as they go similar routes once out of Wolverhampton. 57 could be paired with 82 and the 63/64/65 and 53 moved somewhere else
Unfortunately that would cause too much congestion at some of the stands. The Arriva 9 & Banga 891 could move to the 10/10A stand as they have more in common with those services than your suggestion of the 5/5a which has more in common with the 6. The 63 & 64 should stay close to the 15/16 stand as they serve the wider Penn area.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 11, 2024, 07:38:03 PMUnfortunately that would cause too much congestion at some of the stands. The Arriva 9 & Banga 891 could move to the 10/10A stand as they have more in common with those services than your suggestion of the 5/5a which has more in common with the 6. The 63 & 64 should stay close to the 15/16 stand as they serve the wider Penn area.
There's plenty of complications not being considered as well. A 20 minute frequency service cannot share a stand with a 15 minute frequency service for example
I remember when they opened Walsall, one set of passengers were moaning they were at the wrong end of the bus station in relation to the shops!
(Thinking it was the old 355 route?)
Thought at the time, as the Cannock routes were still in St Pauls Street, you ought to be grateful!
Ironically, if it was the 355, the present day equivalent, 35/36, is still in the 'wrong place'!
Birmingham doesn't really need a bus station in the City Centre for local routes, because of far too many routes & a load of routes are high frequency too, frequent routes like the 50 could need 2 or 3 layover spaces as well as stand space should a bus station be built.
Whilst the likes of Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bristol & few other Towns & Cities have bus stations, however they're used by regional routes & coaches, most of the local routes operate as cross town routes, or start/terminate at another location Town/City Centre
Leon Daniels when he was Head of Surface Transport at TfL gave a presentation to a London Omnibus Transport Society meeting sometime before COVID. He mentioned that somebody had had the great idea of pedestrianising Oxford Street, when asked what would happen to the buses, the promoter of that scheme suggested that the bus routes could terminate at Marble Arch or Tottenham Court Road. The response was: at the west end (Marble Arch) it would be easier as TfL would have to concrete over a large part of Hyde Park for the buses to layover, but it would be more difficult at the east end (Tottenham Court Road) because what would the promoter knock down for space for the buses to layover. Strangely that scheme has gone away.
This is why London has never had a Central Bus Station for all routes as that would need to use the whole of Hyde Park and that wouldn't be popular.
Birmingham's problem is that the city loop: New Street, Corporation Street & Colmore Row which was a large anticlockwise loop with most services stopping along some part of the loop. The buses were banished from the city loop when the tram line was constructed, so now interchange between routes is difficult.
In England's 25 largest places only one place has a bus station where all routes that serve the city centre call and even there, one route only serves it in one direction and that place is Kingston upon Hull. The Paragon Interchange has 42 stands and has a common concourse with Hull Paragon railway station, however Hull is tiny compared to Birmingham.