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West Midlands Buses in Discussion => National Express Coventry => Topic started by: Justin Tyme on July 16, 2024, 09:21:43 PM

Title: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on July 16, 2024, 09:21:43 PM
The National Express Coventry website now has details of the "NX Outer Zones - Rugby" ticket here - https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024 (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024)

It comes into force on 11 August, and the day ticket will cost £6 adult, £4 child.  The notice states that:

 "This increase has been discussed with our partners at Warwickshire County Council and we agree this is needed to more closely reflect the costs of providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby from outside their local authority area.

 Fares remain extremely competitive when compared to equivalent services from other operators in Warwickshire and allow customers to travel on all National Express buses in and around Coventry and beyond."

The ticket will be valid on all NX buses, so I hope this means I will be able to buy one on an NXWM bus for my occasional treks to Rugby.  Who's up for asking for one on an X51 in Cannock?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 16, 2024, 09:21:43 PMThe National Express Coventry website now has details of the "NX Outer Zones - Rugby" ticket here - https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024 (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024)

It comes into force on 11 August, and the day ticket will cost £6 adult, £4 child.  The notice states that:

 "This increase has been discussed with our partners at Warwickshire County Council and we agree this is needed to more closely reflect the costs of providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby from outside their local authority area.

 Fares remain extremely competitive when compared to equivalent services from other operators in Warwickshire and allow customers to travel on all National Express buses in and around Coventry and beyond."

The ticket will be valid on all NX buses, so I hope this means I will be able to buy one on an NXWM bus for my occasional treks to Rugby.  Who's up for asking for one on an X51 in Cannock?

"Increasing demand" cant be a bad thing surely?

So I hope the bus users will see the cost increase being used for their benefit on the 85 services to revert to a 30 minute frequency as used to be with De Courcey Travel?

I certainly hope the extra cost is not being used just to fund the purchase and use of a more expensive new electric single decker fleet to replace the aging and often rammed Enviro200's?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Tony on July 17, 2024, 08:42:04 AM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 08:12:41 AM"Increasing demand" cant be a bad thing surely?

So I hope the bus users will see the cost increase being used for their benefit on the 85 services to revert to a 30 minute frequency as used to be with De Courcey Travel?

I certainly hope the extra cost is not being used just to fund the purchase and use of a more expensive new electric single decker fleet to replace the aging and often rammed Enviro200's?
It's being used to cover the current cost of running the service. It's a subsidised tendered service that needs financial support, hopefully less with this price increase.

Try setting up your own company and going to one of the big leasing companies and leasing a diesel E200 & an electric bus the same size, then add on operating costs and see which one is the more expensive.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Tony on July 17, 2024, 08:42:04 AMIt's being used to cover the current cost of running the service. It's a subsidised tendered service that needs financial support, hopefully less with this price increase.

Try setting up your own company and going to one of the big leasing companies and leasing a diesel E200 & an electric bus the same size, then add on operating costs and see which one is the more expensive.
OK, thanks for the info.
But what about the 'providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby' wording?. I read that as more seats and / or improved frequency?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Coventrybususer95 on July 17, 2024, 11:13:30 AM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 10:26:49 AMOK, thanks for the info.
But what about the 'providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby' wording?. I read that as more seats and / or improved frequency?
Could mean a PVR increase?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: BBS on July 17, 2024, 03:52:55 PM
Quote"Increasing demand" cant be a bad thing surely?

So I hope the bus users will see the cost increase being used for their benefit on the 85 services to revert to a 30 minute frequency as used to be with De Courcey Travel?

I certainly hope the extra cost is not being used just to fund the purchase and use of a more expensive new electric single decker fleet to replace the aging and often rammed Enviro200's?
The 25 is also quite rammed, but up to the DHL Sorting site near Ryton, can a increase happen there?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on July 17, 2024, 08:46:05 PM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 10:26:49 AMOK, thanks for the info.
But what about the 'providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby' wording?. I read that as more seats and / or improved frequency?

As I expect you know, some Mon-Fri journeys are double deck.  The last time I caught one to Rugby it was quite busy.

I wondered if this was partly what the statement meant.  If NX's tender price assumed E200s (except at school times) but double decks are now needed sometimes, that will obviously increase costs considerably.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 17, 2024, 08:46:05 PMAs I expect you know, some Mon-Fri journeys are double deck.  The last time I caught one to Rugby it was quite busy.

I wondered if this was partly what the statement meant.  If NX's tender price assumed E200s (except at school times) but double decks are now needed sometimes, that will obviously increase costs considerably.
From what I understand currently there are 3 deckers to Rugby early morning and 3 back in the afternoons. These are needed mainly for the heavy peak school traffic.  Normally the rest of the services are single deck 200's?

If you look at the NX Coventry - Rugby area under 18 child term plus ticket (the decker traffic?) this seems to be going to ramp up from £110 to £260 a term. Wouldn't that (more than double) step up in price will help to fund the extra cost of running the deckers?

So we will have to see if there will be any other capacity changes on the 85 route from 11 August?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 20, 2024, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 10:26:49 AMOK, thanks for the info.
But what about the 'providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby' wording?. I read that as more seats and / or improved frequency?
Ah ha, seems like the initial words about capacity and increased demand into Rugby have quietly disappeared off the NXC news item?
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024.

Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: ellspurs on July 21, 2024, 03:20:58 AM
It's still there under the "Why is it happening" tab.

Still a lot cheaper than Stagecoach were 15 years ago.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 21, 2024, 08:11:38 AM
Quote from: ellspurs on July 21, 2024, 03:20:58 AMIt's still there under the "Why is it happening" tab.
Found it, thanks.

Quote from: ellspurs on July 21, 2024, 03:20:58 AMStill a lot cheaper than Stagecoach were 15 years ago.
and I believe Stagecoach have also adjusted their Rugby student area fares but can't now find the link. IIRC wasn't the Rugby StudyRider - Megarider zone - expanded [covers Rugby & Daventry and I think it includes the 86 to Coventry] along with a price increase as well (= £278)? 
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: ellspurs on July 21, 2024, 08:35:54 AM
The NX "outer zones" one is £50/month, or £205/term (which seems to cost more per term?). The nBus zone one is £45/month, or £195 a term.

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/tickets-prices/student-bus-pass

Stagecoach don't seem to offer a Rugby-specific one.

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/regionaltickets/midlands/rugby/unirider

The Rugby/Daventry one you mentioned is *from* £250.80 for the "summer term".

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/regionaltickets/midlands/rugby/studyrider
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/ZoneMaps/Midlands/Rugby%20%26%20Daventry/Rugby%20and%20Daventry%20MegaRider%20Map.pdf

Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 21, 2024, 09:27:03 AM
Yes, NX seem to offer a cheaper term pass.

This is the Autumn price list link that I found on Google ?
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/midlands/warwickshire-studyrider 


Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on July 21, 2024, 11:58:53 AM
The Stagecoach Rugby Megarider and Dayrider, now including Coventry and Daventry, are much better value for money than other Stagecoach tickets.  Perhaps Stagecoach are trying to win (or win back) Coventry - Rugby traffic from NXC and trains.

I see that some Mon-Fri 85 journeys are now regularly double deck outside school times: the 1125, 1730 and 2010 from Rugby and returns particularly.  I've used the 1125 trip a couple of times and it carried a good load.  If double decks are needed on these journeys, this will no doubt be why NXC talk about by "the costs of providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby".

Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: j789 on July 21, 2024, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 21, 2024, 11:58:53 AMThe Stagecoach Rugby Megarider and Dayrider, now including Coventry and Daventry, are much better value for money than other Stagecoach tickets.  Perhaps Stagecoach are trying to win (or win back) Coventry - Rugby traffic from NXC and trains.

I see that some Mon-Fri 85 journeys are now regularly double deck outside school times: the 1125, 1730 and 2010 from Rugby and returns particularly.  I've used the 1125 trip a couple of times and it carried a good load.  If double decks are needed on these journeys, this will no doubt be why NXC talk about by "the costs of providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby".


Yes particularly the fact those double deckers are brand new electrics too, no way of reducing costs by using 20 year Tridents on such routes anymore. Very likely the new buses themselves will have attracted some new custom too, especially compared to Stagecoach's offerings on Rugby local services.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Stu on July 21, 2024, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: j789 on July 21, 2024, 06:38:08 PMYes particularly the fact those double deckers are brand new electrics too, no way of reducing costs by using 20 year Tridents on such routes anymore.
You'll probably find (in the long-term at least) that the new electrics are actually cheaper to run than the knackered old diesels!
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: j789 on July 21, 2024, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 21, 2024, 08:08:42 PMYou'll probably find (in the long-term at least) that the new electrics are actually cheaper to run than the knackered old diesels!
No doubt about that but the overall cost of operating the route will be far higher with the new electric's rental cost added in compared to an old Trident whose book value would be minimal. 
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 22, 2024, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 17, 2024, 08:46:05 PMAs I expect you know, some Mon-Fri journeys are double deck.  The last time I caught one to Rugby it was quite busy.

I wondered if this was partly what the statement meant.  If NX's tender price assumed E200s (except at school times) but double decks are now needed sometimes, that will obviously increase costs considerably.
This is the first weekday of the school holidays. Have any deckers appeared on the 85 today or is it E200's in the main?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Rachvince53 on July 22, 2024, 04:15:14 PM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 22, 2024, 03:49:31 PMThis is the first weekday of the school holidays. Have any deckers appeared on the 85 today or is it E200's in the main?
Bustimes.org shows only E200s so far.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on July 22, 2024, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 22, 2024, 04:15:14 PMBustimes.org shows only E200s so far.
Thanks for checking.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on July 22, 2024, 08:47:16 PM
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 22, 2024, 04:15:14 PMBustimes.org shows only E200s so far.

 I have noticed before that double decks are normally only used on schooldays, not during school holidays, even at off-peak times.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Sandy Lane on September 10, 2024, 07:27:15 AM
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 17, 2024, 10:26:49 AMOK, thanks for the info.
But what about the 'providing capacity required to convey the increased demand into Rugby' wording?. I read that as more seats and / or improved frequency?
Now the schools have restarted after the holiday it looks to me like the same or similar bus types are in use as before the holiday, ie, qty x3 deckers on the school run out to Rugby (85, 85H & 85S) and back in the pm plus the other occasional decker. Rest of the services stay with the ADL Enviro200's.

So back to the 'capacity' query and the increased school pass cost. Could this just be Warks CC making the school kids pay more for their commute costs rather than the Warks ratepayers? And why not? It is strange seeing x3 deckers full of school kids who mostly live in Coventry and who all go to School in Rugby! Maybe this tells us something about the schools in Coventry?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Wibble on November 04, 2024, 04:13:27 PM
Slightly confused here. The NX website says the Outer Zone day ticket is £5 & the map shows Rugby, Leamington, Nuneaton, Coleshill, Lichfield, Cannock & Bromsgrove as the out of area locations.

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/tickets-prices/single-trips-day-tickets

Has the price been reduced from £6 or do the good people of Coventry have to pay more than the rest of the West Midlands to travel outside the nbus area (ie to Rugby)?

Cheers ... Richard

Ah ... just clocked the fact that Rugby is shaded blue, but there is no mention on the NXWM website that there is a price difference, just on the Coventry one
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on November 05, 2024, 08:01:00 PM
Quote from: Wibble on November 04, 2024, 04:13:27 PMSlightly confused here. The NX website says the Outer Zone day ticket is £5 & the map shows Rugby, Leamington, Nuneaton, Coleshill, Lichfield, Cannock & Bromsgrove as the out of area locations.

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/tickets-prices/single-trips-day-tickets

Has the price been reduced from £6 or do the good people of Coventry have to pay more than the rest of the West Midlands to travel outside the nbus area (ie to Rugby)?

Cheers ... Richard

Ah ... just clocked the fact that Rugby is shaded blue, but there is no mention on the NXWM website that there is a price difference, just on the Coventry one

Well, yes, could be better!

I can only guess that NX expect hardly anyone from the NXWM area to want a day ticket to travel to Rugby.  I have done it two or three times, but not since NX Outer Zones ticket was brought in.  The next time I do it I will pay by contactless so I expect travel that day to be capped at £6.

I would love to know if anyone has bought an NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket on a Wolverhampton, Walsall or Pensnett bus!
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Rachvince53 on November 05, 2024, 09:18:16 PM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on November 05, 2024, 08:01:00 PMWell, yes, could be better!

I can only guess that NX expect hardly anyone from the NXWM area to want a day ticket to travel to Rugby.  I have done it two or three times, but not since NX Outer Zones ticket was brought in.  The next time I do it I will pay by contactless so I expect travel that day to be capped at £6.

I would love to know if anyone has bought an NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket on a Wolverhampton, Walsall or Pensnett bus!
According to the NXWM website, NX Outer Zones day is currently £5. This includes Rugby.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on November 05, 2024, 10:21:07 PM
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 05, 2024, 09:18:16 PMAccording to the NXWM website, NX Outer Zones day is currently £5. This includes Rugby.

That's what the NXWM website says, but I don't believe it's that straightforward.

The NXC website says the £6 ticket is required to get to Rugby (remember this notice (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024)?), so I doubt that an NXC driver would accept a £5 ticket beyond the TfWM boundary on a Rugby service.  And if starting in Rugby, I reckon that only the £6 day ticket would be available to purchase.

If an NXC member of staff reading this can confirm what the situation is, that would be great.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Rachvince53 on November 06, 2024, 10:00:55 AM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on November 05, 2024, 10:21:07 PMThat's what the NXWM website says, but I don't believe it's that straightforward.

The NXC website says the £6 ticket is required to get to Rugby (remember this notice (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/rugby-fare-changes-from-sunday-11th-august-2024)?), so I doubt that an NXC driver would accept a £5 ticket beyond the TfWM boundary on a Rugby service.  And if starting in Rugby, I reckon that only the £6 day ticket would be available to purchase.

If an NXC member of staff reading this can confirm what the situation is, that would be great.

I see what you mean. Its rather confusing isn't it? 
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: BBS on November 07, 2024, 12:25:04 AM
Is this the same situation with swift cards now?  A lot of people particularly children to go to rugby schools Tend to use swift but the machine declines 
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Ingleboro261F on November 07, 2024, 05:58:38 AM
It would be so much better if NX included an nbus with outer zones or something like that option which you could buy.
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Westy on November 07, 2024, 06:45:04 AM
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 07, 2024, 05:58:38 AMIt would be so much better if NX included an nbus with outer zones or something like that option which you could buy.
Think when I asked a similiar question, TfWm wouldnt get their cut or something?
Title: Re: NX Outer Zones - Rugby day ticket
Post by: Justin Tyme on November 07, 2024, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: Westy on November 07, 2024, 06:45:04 AMThink when I asked a similiar question, TfWm wouldnt get their cut or something?
Or it wouldn't be economic for NX.  I  think that was the reason given for NX Outer Zones replacing 'nBus + all NX buses' earlier this year.