I didnt know exactly where to put this so I made a new thread which will probably get buried in like a week.
anyway, since E400s have Euro 4 and Euro 5 (and euro 6 MMC) variants round here, am I right in saying that the chassis name on the Euro 4 ones is 'Trident 2' and the Euro 5 and 6 ones are 'E40D'? or is it something else altogether?
also innit the '2' in Trident 2 comes from the number of axles?
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 07, 2023, 04:30:51 PMI didnt know exactly where to put this so I made a new thread which will probably get buried in like a week.
anyway, since E400s have Euro 4 and Euro 5 (and euro 6 MMC) variants round here, am I right in saying that the chassis name on the Euro 4 ones is 'Trident 2' and the Euro 5 and 6 ones are 'E40D'? or is it something else altogether?
also innit the '2' in Trident 2 comes from the number of axles?
Generally correct, yes
Maybe update chassis on bus times??
Quote from: Dababa015 on December 08, 2023, 12:12:27 AMMaybe update chassis on bus times??
Pretty sure it was a thing before but theres no real reason for it because they aren't completely different
likes the streetlites cummins/daimler aren't different and such
Quote from: EK40 on December 08, 2023, 10:34:53 AMPretty sure it was a thing before but theres no real reason for it because they aren't completely different
likes the streetlites cummins/daimler aren't different and such
Probably because anyone who knew a bit about the type knew when one type stopped being produced and the other started.
But it annoys me a bit that Cummins and Mercades engines aren't shown on Optare Versas as they are really different
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 08, 2023, 06:13:27 PMProbably because anyone who knew a bit about the type knew when one type stopped being produced and the other started.
But it annoys me a bit that Cummins and Mercades engines aren't shown on Optare Versas as they are really different
For the purpose of what BusTimes was created for, that kind of information isn't really necessary.
The average passenger doesn't need to know whether their bus has a Cummins or Daimler engine, and to be honest probably doesn't care.
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 08, 2023, 06:13:27 PMProbably because anyone who knew a bit about the type knew when one type stopped being produced and the other started.
But it annoys me a bit that Cummins and Mercades engines aren't shown on Optare Versas as they are really different
Quote from: Stu on December 08, 2023, 06:28:51 PMFor the purpose of what BusTimes was created for, that kind of information isn't really necessary.
The average passenger doesn't need to know whether their bus has a Cummins or Daimler engine, and to be honest probably doesn't care.
then whats the point in them differentiating between Trident and B7TL ALX400s?
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 09, 2023, 04:04:24 PMthen whats the point in them differentiating between Trident and B7TL ALX400s?
They are completely different vehicles
Quote from: Tony on December 09, 2023, 04:05:12 PMThey are completely different vehicles
they still look and feel the same to the average passenger
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 09, 2023, 04:06:13 PMthey still look and feel the same to the average passenger
That doesn't come into it. They're totally different vehicles. A Volvo isn't a Dennis and a Dennis isn't a Volvo. However a Versa is a Versa is a Versa.
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 09, 2023, 04:06:13 PMthey still look and feel the same to the average passenger
i mean if your talking how an average passenger sees it you may as well remove it all together tbf, bustimes still caters partly to enthusiasts. your average passenger doesnt really care if they are on an enviro 400 or an wright eclipse g2. while your average enthusiast would look if they are on a volvo gemini or a DAF gemini but probably not what engine the solo they are on has.
Quote from: EK40 on December 10, 2023, 11:38:40 AMi mean if your talking how an average passenger sees it you may as well remove it all together tbf, bustimes still caters partly to enthusiasts. your average passenger doesnt really care if they are on an enviro 400 or an wright eclipse g2. while your average enthusiast would look if they are on a volvo gemini or a DAF gemini but probably not what engine the solo they are on has.
fair enough but I still think the Mercedes and Cummins engine sound very different especially to enthusiasts
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 11, 2023, 09:05:06 PMfair enough but I still think the Mercedes and Cummins engine sound very different especially to enthusiasts
Cummins over Mercedes any day!!!!
Quote from: Wba_lad on December 11, 2023, 11:18:12 PMCummins over Mercedes any day!!!!
Cummins solos over Mercedes solos for sure.
The mercedes solos are so loud it's crazy, especially when idle
Quote from: Dababa015 on December 13, 2023, 04:24:33 PMThe mercedes solos are so loud it's crazy, especially when idle
cummins is also loud but has actual power
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 13, 2023, 04:39:06 PMcummins is also loud but has actual power
How would you know, have you ever driven a bus?
Bus engines are as powerful as they need to be for the vehicle they are propelling.
Quote from: Stu on December 13, 2023, 07:33:28 PMHow would you know, have you ever driven a bus?
Bus engines are as powerful as they need to be for the vehicle they are propelling.
Yes, both engines will have very similar horsepower
Quote from: Stu on December 13, 2023, 07:33:28 PMHow would you know, have you ever driven a bus?
Bus engines are as powerful as they need to be for the vehicle they are propelling.
youre saying that when the Converted hybrid E400s have 4 cylinder engines
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 13, 2023, 09:07:07 PMyoure saying that when the Converted hybrid E400s have 4 cylinder engines
Well when I drove them back from Scarborough they were holding 62mph on the M18/M1
Quote from: Tony on December 13, 2023, 09:17:51 PMWell when I drove them back from Scarborough they were holding 62mph on the M18/M1
Fair enough, but thats mostly showing that they arent speed limited. How long did it take to reach that speed.
Either way when I was at the Wolves garage open day i spoke to a driver and he said that the converted hybrids were underpowered and his least favourite to drive
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 13, 2023, 09:23:12 PMFair enough, but thats mostly showing that they arent speed limited. How long did it take to reach that speed.
Either way when I was at the Wolves garage open day i spoke to a driver and he said that the converted hybrids were underpowered and his least favourite to drive
That's on Drivers Opinion 5415 which I believe is still A Hybrid felt just as fast as 5407 the last diesel Converted E400 I caught on the 79 5415 had the acceleration down Darlaston Road and through Hill Top and on Hydes Road 5407 had acceleration on the Bilston Road when it was running late.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 13, 2023, 10:00:13 PMThat's on Drivers Opinion 5415 which I believe is still A Hybrid felt just as fast as 5407 the last diesel Converted E400 I caught on the 79 5415 had the acceleration down Darlaston Road and through Hill Top and on Hydes Road 5407 had acceleration on the Bilston Road when it was running late.
I thought they had decent acceleration too but then I realised the engine had to rev a lot just to get the bus going yet their 6-cylinder counterparts can get moving with much lower revs
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 14, 2023, 07:45:27 AMI thought they had decent acceleration too but then I realised the engine had to rev a lot just to get the bus going yet their 6-cylinder counterparts can get moving with much lower revs
Might be because like on 5415 the Hybrid motor the little Whistle you hear when Accelerating and Decelerating helps. The Toyota Prius uses a Petrol Engine mostly but when depending on the mode it pulls away or stops the Hybrid Motor gets it to say 10MPH (it's probably higher) before the 4 cylinder Petrol kicks in it doesn't have to work as hard as the motor has taken some of the slack to rev away and has changed into 2nd gear. Without the Motor the Petrol Engine would still rev louder than an Equivalent Hybrid Pyrius as it's having to do more work. If you have heard an old Ford Transit pull away you can tell it's old Transit because of it's sound and how loud it is. Compare that to a Hybrid New Transit and it's night and day. Nowadays cars are quieter but in the Hybrid case remove the Electric Motor and the Engine with 2 less cylinders and without the aid will have to work harder. Idk If NX have left the Six cylinders in any of the Diesel Hybrids for a comparison to say 5407 or 5404 or any of them because if the Six Cylinder struggles than it was the Hybrid Motor aiding acceleration, the four cylinder is having to do more work in the Motor boost and two less cylinders
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 14, 2023, 07:45:27 AMI thought they had decent acceleration too but then I realised the engine had to rev a lot just to get the bus going yet their 6-cylinder counterparts can get moving with much lower revs
The gearboxes are different to cope with the different engines.
The amount of energy produced depends on the amount of fuel being burnt efficiently, so if you only have four cylinders to get the same horsepower each cylinder will be burning 50% more fuel to give the same power hence the faster revving
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2023, 01:56:28 PMThe gearboxes are different to cope with the different engines.
The amount of energy produced depends on the amount of fuel being burnt efficiently, so if you only have four cylinders to get the same horsepower each cylinder will be burning 50% more fuel to give the same power hence the faster revving
Yeah I thought it was something like the Engines having to work harder to make up for a loss of 2 cylinders and the Electric Motor. You can Feel the kick of that Electric Motor when the driver puts there foot down it then. I remember being on 5416 I think on the 1 and I could feel the boosts when we pulled off and the driver put his foot down.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 14, 2023, 02:28:02 PMYeah I thought it was something like the Engines having to work harder to make up for a loss of 2 cylinders and the Electric Motor. You can Feel the kick of that Electric Motor when the driver puts there foot down it then. I remember being on 5416 I think on the 1 and I could feel the boosts when we pulled off and the driver put his foot down.
You don't feel the electric motor give you a boost as that is not how the hybrid system works
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2023, 01:56:28 PMThe gearboxes are different to cope with the different engines.
The amount of energy produced depends on the amount of fuel being burnt efficiently, so if you only have four cylinders to get the same horsepower each cylinder will be burning 50% more fuel to give the same power hence the faster revving
So basically they still use up the same amount of fuel
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 14, 2023, 07:00:12 PMSo basically they still use up the same amount of fuel
As a hybrid they used less (when new), but there will be very little difference as diesels if the performance is the same, that's physics. If all your energy comes from exploding diesel and the vehicle is accelerating the same and travelling at the same speed it will need the same energy use to make it do so.
Electric buses have a far more efficient use of energy. A diesel bus travelling down a steep hill will not burn any diesel, but will waste energy as heat from the brakes. An electric bus going downhill generates electricity for the batteries instead of wasting it as heat.
With regards how the hybrid E400s work. The engine is not connected to the axle in any way, all the engine does is generate electricity. The Volvo B5LHs are different and can use the engine directly or the electric traction motors to provide momentum.
Personally so long as the heaters work i don't really care about the other end 😂
Oh and ALFs get off
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2023, 07:08:24 PMAs a hybrid they used less (when new), but there will be very little difference as diesels if the performance is the same, that's physics. If all your energy comes from exploding diesel and the vehicle is accelerating the same and travelling at the same speed it will need the same energy use to make it do so.
Electric buses have a far more efficient use of energy. A diesel bus travelling down a steep hill will not burn any diesel, but will waste energy as heat from the brakes. An electric bus going downhill generates electricity for the batteries instead of wasting it as heat.
With regards how the hybrid E400s work. The engine is not connected to the axle in any way, all the engine does is generate electricity. The Volvo B5LHs are different and can use the engine directly or the electric traction motors to provide momentum.
How well do B5LHs fare compared to diesel buses in terms of fuel efficiency? And which bus types are the least fuel efficient in the NX fleet?
Quote from: Ronnoc on December 14, 2023, 08:06:07 PMHow well do B5LHs fare compared to diesel buses in terms of fuel efficiency? And which bus types are the least fuel efficient in the NX fleet?
Have a read of this
NX (zemo.org.uk) (https://www.zemo.org.uk/assets/presentations/7.%20Hybrid%20Buses%20in%20Birmingham%20-%20Darren%20Astbury,%20National%20Express.pdf)
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2023, 08:09:41 PMHave a read of this
NX (zemo.org.uk) (https://www.zemo.org.uk/assets/presentations/7.%20Hybrid%20Buses%20in%20Birmingham%20-%20Darren%20Astbury,%20National%20Express.pdf)
Interesting Neausea was mentioned I assume that was due to quietness whilst moving or the jerkiness.
Quote from: karl724223 on December 14, 2023, 07:29:11 PMOh and ALFs get off
allow it man i'm just trying to learn how buses work whats the problem with that
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 15, 2023, 07:53:19 AMallow it man i'm just trying to learn how buses work whats the problem with that
Do you know what ALF Means I don't think he was targeting you specifically
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 15, 2023, 11:10:28 AMDo you know what ALF Means I don't think he was targeting you specifically
I do and im one of the people he could have been referring to
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 15, 2023, 11:10:28 AMDo you know what ALF Means I don't think he was targeting you specifically
What does ALF mean