WM Bus Photos Forum

West Midlands Buses in Discussion => General Discussion, Questions & Route Suggestions => Topic started by: Steve3229vp on November 26, 2020, 06:22:35 PM

Title: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Steve3229vp on November 26, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
Surprising news that Arriva to sell Cannock garage to D & G
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/arriva-selling-cannock-depot-to-dg-bus/?fbclid=IwAR1f7hGqwYMg8x01IedoEskKdnuSEhfq2B_E6CoYLoXaWg8MIS4NRtOOZh8
I wonder how long it will take for the "why didn't NX buy it" comments to start ?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: DJ on November 26, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 26, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
Surprising news that Arriva to sell Cannock garage to D & G
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/arriva-selling-cannock-depot-to-dg-bus/?fbclid=IwAR1f7hGqwYMg8x01IedoEskKdnuSEhfq2B_E6CoYLoXaWg8MIS4NRtOOZh8
I wonder how long it will take for the "why didn't NX buy it" comments to start ?

Not surprising at all, the rumour has been around for ages, and it's been discussed a fair bit on the Cannock Garage thread.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Stu on November 26, 2020, 06:41:14 PM
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 26, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
I wonder how long it will take for the "why didn't NX buy it" comments to start ?

I'm pretty sure if NX Bus thought it was a good investment then they would have put in an offer.

Good luck to D&G, seems a bit of a brave move, considering some of the flak that Arriva Cannock have received from some members here!  ;)
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Westy on November 26, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Are D & G known in Cannock already or not?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: PointerDart on November 26, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: Westy on November 26, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Are D & G known in Cannock already or not?

No service in Cannock currently - closest they operate I would believe is Stafford alongside Select.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Busboy105 on November 26, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 26, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
Surprising news that Arriva to sell Cannock garage to D & G
https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/arriva-selling-cannock-depot-to-dg-bus/?fbclid=IwAR1f7hGqwYMg8x01IedoEskKdnuSEhfq2B_E6CoYLoXaWg8MIS4NRtOOZh8
I wonder how long it will take for the "why didn't NX buy it" comments to start ?
Good deal by D&G. Gonna be hard in the first couple of weeks because of the poor state that Arriva have let their buses go but it will hopefully pay dividends.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Tony on November 26, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 26, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
Good deal by D&G. Gonna be hard in the first couple of weeks because of the poor state that Arriva have let their buses go but it will hopefully pay dividends.

First couple of weeks?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: PointerDart on November 26, 2020, 07:40:33 PM
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 26, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
Good deal by D&G. Gonna be hard in the first couple of weeks because of the poor state that Arriva have let their buses go but it will hopefully pay dividends.

My worry is that D&G will suffer the same fate as GHA in 2015 - expanding too quickly and then a complete implosion so quickly. That being said, with D&G being under Centrebus now, perhaps this could help prevent this from happening?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Solo1 on November 26, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Didn't  D&G used to run a service in cannock under  midland brand years ago
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: markcf83 on November 26, 2020, 08:03:00 PM
I wonder how many of the existing fleet at Cannock will be retained by D and G......
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: DJ on November 26, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on November 26, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Didn't  D&G used to run a service in cannock under  midland brand years ago

Looking through Flickr, they had a 23 to Hednesford, and a 62A.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Busboy105 on November 26, 2020, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: PointerDart on November 26, 2020, 07:40:33 PM
My worry is that D&G will suffer the same fate as GHA in 2015 - expanding too quickly and then a complete implosion so quickly. That being said, with D&G being under Centrebus now, perhaps this could help prevent this from happening?
I guess we'll wait and see.
@Tony you think they'll struggle from the off?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Tony on November 26, 2020, 09:42:24 PM
Quote from: PointerDart on November 26, 2020, 07:40:33 PM
My worry is that D&G will suffer the same fate as GHA in 2015 - expanding too quickly and then a complete implosion so quickly. That being said, with D&G being under Centrebus now, perhaps this could help prevent this from happening?

D&G are hardly expanding rapidly. Julian Peddle does not make any bad decisions
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: BusMan Greg on November 26, 2020, 10:44:19 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on November 26, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Didn't  D&G used to run a service in cannock under  midland brand years ago
They did the 810, 23, 23A, 62, 62A and the 74 in the evenings. I think that's it. Actually, I think they did the 351 a few years ago!
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Westy on November 26, 2020, 10:51:09 PM
Quote from: BusMan Greg on November 26, 2020, 10:44:19 PM
They did the 810, 23, 23A, 62, 62A and the 74 in the evenings. I think that's it. Actually, I think they did the 351 a few years ago!

When TWM, as was, cut the daytime service from half hourly to hourly, Midland took over the dropped journeys.

At the time of the North Walsall review in 2010, they also ran the short lived partial replacement between Walsall & Turnberry, the 5, which became the current Arriva 2 arrangement a few months later.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Kevin_Brum12 on November 28, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
Given the state the South Staffordshire operation has become under the stewardship of Arriva, D&G are taking on a mighty challenge.  This is a much bigger ask than putting on a few stickers on buses, a paint job and giving the staff some new uniforms.

    • It is pretty obvious that the entire fleet has to be replaced in order to reduce operating costs.  It is more expensive to run a fleet of life expired buses (and they are life expired) simply because of the frequency of breakdowns and the availability of parts.  And if a bus keeps breaking down, even if its book value is zero it is costing you revenue.

    • D&G need vehicles around the 7 year mark.   Second hand yes, but in much better condition than Arrivas wrecks and likely to need less work.  And as NXWM have shown, you can effectively create a "new bus" at a seven year overhaul.  To get those done quickly so a massive change in image and quality can be delivered and the dead hand of aquamarine banished?  Big ask.

    • The lack of entrepreneurship and marketing of the South Staffordshire network over the years by Arriva has led to reduced patronage.  You have to operate a decent service and sell it to the non-user and keep the passengers you've got. If you do not achieve that as a bus operator, you won't have a future.  The rot probably set in when Arriva transferred control of the operation to Leicester and gave up any interest in local branding, marketing and innovation.

    • The inference that Delta Way will close is a challenge.  The drivers there are now facing some tough choices.  A new firm taking over, questions about pensions and wages (although they will be covered under TUPE) and the possibility of a move to another depot.  There may be additional travel time to and from work.  It will be expected of course, but it does not make things easy.

    • A local authority (Staffordshire County Council) whose interest in buses has been close to zero compared to other authorities.  Whenever you get you go over the border on a bus the contrast is clear between the quality of the infrastructure provided by TfWM and the local councils in the West Midlands and Staffordshire, who seem to think a bus stop pole with a phone number and no info on whatsoever is OK.

So it is a toughie but they've got Julian Peddle and he is a smart cookie.  He has to go for a complete transformation in terms of quality. As Midland Classic have proved, it can be done but repairing 10 years of neglect and indifference is a massive task. 
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Bob on December 02, 2020, 07:46:03 PM
Apparently theyre having around 40 of the 63 buses currently at Cannock. And the fleet is bad, really bad. 

Someone mentioned midland ran an 810 from Cannock. That was years ago i think, green and yellow Choice days, im sure it went to Codsall.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: ellspurs on December 02, 2020, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: Bob on December 02, 2020, 07:46:03 PM
Apparently theyre having around 40 of the 63 buses currently at Cannock. And the fleet is bad, really bad. 

Someone mentioned midland ran an 810 from Cannock. That was years ago i think, green and yellow Choice days, im sure it went to Codsall.

Was that 810 in addition to the 810 from Wolverhampton to Telford? Or was the Wolves one numbered 888? I remember going from Wolves to Telford as a kid on a Choice bus, so late 90s.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Bob on December 02, 2020, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on December 02, 2020, 08:18:57 PM
Was that 810 in addition to the 810 from Wolverhampton to Telford? Or was the Wolves one numbered 888? I remember going from Wolves to Telford as a kid on a Choice bus, so late 90s.

Not a clue re Telford bus
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Westy on December 02, 2020, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on November 28, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
Given the state the South Staffordshire operation has become under the stewardship of Arriva, D&G are taking on a mighty challenge.  This is a much bigger ask than putting on a few stickers on buses, a paint job and giving the staff some new uniforms.

    • It is pretty obvious that the entire fleet has to be replaced in order to reduce operating costs.  It is more expensive to run a fleet of life expired buses (and they are life expired) simply because of the frequency of breakdowns and the availability of parts.  And if a bus keeps breaking down, even if its book value is zero it is costing you revenue.

    • D&G need vehicles around the 7 year mark.   Second hand yes, but in much better condition than Arrivas wrecks and likely to need less work.  And as NXWM have shown, you can effectively create a "new bus" at a seven year overhaul.  To get those done quickly so a massive change in image and quality can be delivered and the dead hand of aquamarine banished?  Big ask.

    • The lack of entrepreneurship and marketing of the South Staffordshire network over the years by Arriva has led to reduced patronage.  You have to operate a decent service and sell it to the non-user and keep the passengers you've got. If you do not achieve that as a bus operator, you won't have a future.  The rot probably set in when Arriva transferred control of the operation to Leicester and gave up any interest in local branding, marketing and innovation.

    • The inference that Delta Way will close is a challenge.  The drivers there are now facing some tough choices.  A new firm taking over, questions about pensions and wages (although they will be covered under TUPE) and the possibility of a move to another depot.  There may be additional travel time to and from work.  It will be expected of course, but it does not make things easy.

   • A local authority (Staffordshire County Council) whose interest in buses has been close to zero compared to other authorities.  Whenever you get you go over the border on a bus the contrast is clear between the quality of the infrastructure provided by TfWM and the local councils in the West Midlands and Staffordshire, who seem to think a bus stop pole with a phone number and no info on whatsoever is OK.

So it is a toughie but they've got Julian Peddle and he is a smart cookie.  He has to go for a complete transformation in terms of quality. As Midland Classic have proved, it can be done but repairing 10 years of neglect and indifference is a massive task.

Pre pandemic, were Arriva keeping their own timetables in the stops up to date?

Suppose the best we can hope for is 'Chaserider', along with Select & NX, continue to keep them updated & not to cover up each other's information, especially on the Walsall corridor.
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: PointerDart on December 03, 2020, 03:34:29 AM
Quote from: Westy on December 02, 2020, 10:18:58 PM
Pre pandemic, were Arriva keeping their own timetables in the stops up to date?

Suppose the best we can hope for is 'Chaserider', along with Select & NX, continue to keep them updated & not to cover up each other's information, especially on the Walsall corridor.

D&G have not had any timetables at bus stops in Stoke for whatever reason - I believe it is mostly, if not all, online. Whether Chaserider will be the same is another thing - quite possibly?
Title: Re: Cannock Garage to be sold to D&G
Post by: Bob on December 04, 2020, 10:04:47 AM
I think bringing back the Chaserider name is a really smart move. Lots of people will still be able to identify with it