Know any unique facts about any West Midlands route ? As trivial and boring as you want, but so long as it's unique. Something about a route that is unique in a particular setting,something only it does in its journey or in relation to other routes in its garage or a location along its route. NOT INCLUDED is a particular road that it alone goes along, lots of routes do that.
I'll start:
The 8 (Wolverhampton-Wollaston Farm) serves the most bus stations: Wolverhampton, Dudley, Merry Hill and Stourbridge.
The 11 briefly lost its crown as longest urban bus route to the 9/10 in Dundee and also briefly lost its crown to the Coventry outer circle
Quote from: the trainbasher on October 26, 2020, 10:17:38 AM
The 11 briefly lost its crown as longest urban bus route to the 9/10 in Coventry and also briefly lost its crown to the Coventry outer circle
The 9 and 10 are over 20 miles???
Despite being the main trunk route between the two towns, the 79 is actually quite a bit slower than another route between Bilston and Wednesbury, as Diamond's 23 only takes 16 minutes, versus the 79's 28. I'm not sure if there's any other main routes like that, where a way less frequent tendered service is actually the quicker option.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 26, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
The 9 and 10 are over 20 miles???
I meant 9/10 in Dundee
Quote from: StourValley98 on October 26, 2020, 10:48:50 AM
Despite being the main trunk route between the two towns, the 79 is actually quite a bit slower than another route between Bilston and Wednesbury, as Diamond's 23 only takes 16 minutes, versus the 79's 28. I'm not sure if there's any other main routes like that, where a way less frequent tendered service is actually the quicker option.
The 34 is only 5 minutes longer to Kings Heath than the 35.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 26, 2020, 11:11:34 AM
The 34 is only 5 minutes longer to Kings Heath than the 35.
Debatable, the timetable puts the 35 at 23 minutes, most trips on the the 34 are 30 minutes from town. The traffic lately has been affecting both routes quite badly though, not helped by the everwise council closing all the side streets off in Kings Heath and sending everyone up the high street.
Quote from: V89MOA on October 26, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
Debatable, the timetable puts the 35 at 23 minutes, most trips on the the 34 are 30 minutes from town. The traffic lately has been affecting both routes quite badly though, not helped by the everwise council closing all the side streets off in Kings Heath and sending everyone up the high street.
The 34 was rerouted back in February around Balsall Heath; maybe that added time to it.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 26, 2020, 11:11:34 AM
The 34 is only 5 minutes longer to Kings Heath than the 35.
Yeah, but the main route from Brum to Kings Heath is the 50, which is even more direct. The 79, despite being the main trunk route, takes a pretty indirect route to serve Darlaston.
Quote from: StourValley98 on October 26, 2020, 02:49:16 PM
Yeah, but the main route from Brum to Kings Heath is the 50, which is even more direct. The 79, despite being the main trunk route, takes a pretty indirect route to serve Darlaston.
According to timetables the 50 leaving Moor Street at 1208 arriving at Kings Heath at 1231, the 35 leaving Moor Street at 1205 arriving at Kings Heath at 1228 - Both are exactly 23 minutes.
Which route has had the most changes since inception?
Which route has had the most operators run services on it (commercial or subsidized)
Quote from: Lukeee on November 02, 2020, 08:48:30 PM
Which route has had the most operators run services on it (commercial or subsidized)
Currently 11A/11C says Discount Travel one way, RK Travel other way and NX. So 3.
Don't think there will be many that have more than 2 running on it in 2020.
11A/11C has had The Green Bus (they used to run an 11E from Stechford to Winson Green via Ward End, Erdington, Perry Barr and Handsworth) around 2011, AMPM Travel, Joes Travel, Social Travel, GRS Travel, Discount Travel Solutions, RK Travel and National Express West Midlands over the last 10 years.
I found the registration on the VOSA site for the old Green Bus Service, looks like it only ran for a few months as well from 1st September to the 5th December 2011.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/345536/
Quote from: Lukeee on November 02, 2020, 08:48:30 PM
Which route has had the most operators run services on it (commercial or subsidized)
The Birmingham 53/663 must be up there with the most operators!
The 97 if you stretch back to the 90s.
Quote from: 2206 on November 02, 2020, 08:52:38 PM
Currently 11A/11C says Discount Travel one way, RK Travel other way and NX. So 3.
Don't think there will be many that have more than 2 running on it in 2020.
11A/11C has had The Green Bus (they used to run an 11E from Stechford to Winson Green via Ward End, Erdington, Perry Barr and Handsworth) around 2011, AMPM Travel, Joes Travel, Social Travel, GRS Travel, Discount Travel Solutions, RK Travel and National Express West Midlands over the last 10 years.
I found the registration on the VOSA site for the old Green Bus Service, looks like it only ran for a few months as well from 1st September to the 5th December 2011.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/345536/
The 11A/C has also had Falcon travel and Birmingham Coach Company (Selly Oak to Perry Barr)
The Green Bus ran on a number of routes commercially, placement journeys from afternoon school buses, for example they ran 5 or 6 journeys on the 6 Solihull - Birmingham.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on November 03, 2020, 08:17:14 PM
The 11A/C has also had Falcon travel and Birmingham Coach Company (Selly Oak to Perry Barr)
The Green Bus ran on a number of routes commercially, placement journeys from afternoon school buses, for example they ran 5 or 6 journeys on the 6 Solihull - Birmingham.
I recall Birmingham Motor Traction running an 11E between Perry Barr and Acocks Green in the mid 2000's. The 424 must be a contender for a route with many different operators over the years. As well as Claribels theres been Diamond, VIP buses, Zaks and I believe Central Connect
The 16 route from Hanley to Leek must be up there in terms of the number of operators on the route at the same time.
Back in 2010 the Mon-Fri daytime service was run by Proctors with some additional trips by Scraggs, evening journeys were run by D&G. Saturday daytime was split between Proctors and Bakers with again D&G running evenings, then Sunday journeys were run by Scraggs. So there were 4 operators on the same route at the same time, OK different days of the week but still all at the same time. Due to various commercial/tendered sections of route leading to 4 different operators.
Quote from: Cheese on November 06, 2020, 10:37:32 AM
The 16 route from Hanley to Leek must be up there in terms of the number of operators on the route at the same time.
Back in 2010 the Mon-Fri daytime service was run by Proctors with some additional trips by Scraggs, evening journeys were run by D&G. Saturday daytime was split between Proctors and Bakers with again D&G running evenings, then Sunday journeys were run by Scraggs. So there were 4 operators on the same route at the same time, OK different days of the week but still all at the same time. Due to various commercial/tendered sections of route leading to 4 different operators.
The x96 was similar (at one stage Diamond did one tender, Midland another, NX commercially and hansons did one trip) in 2009
Quote from: Lukeee on November 03, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
The 424 must be a contender for a route with many different operators over the years. As well as Claribels theres been Diamond, VIP buses, Zaks and I believe Central Connect
iGo too.
My old local route 36 (Heartlands Hospital-Sparkhill) did have a few.
NXWM, Landflight (then Silverline), Diamond, IGO (before they went bust) and now Claribels.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 06, 2020, 10:14:04 PM
My old local route 36 (Heartlands Hospital-Sparkhill) did have a few.
NXWM, Landflight (then Silverline), Diamond, IGO (before they went bust) and now Claribels.
It's a tender
Question: Is the 16 (Birmingham - Hamstead/West Bromwich) the longest rivalry between two operators? ??? - Not only regionally, but nationally?
Would be interesting to hear of any other routes in competition for over 30 years!
The Oxford Tube and the Oxford Citylink X90 between Oxford and London, the X90 was started by South Midland in 1928, then in March 1987 Thames Transit started operating the Oxford Tube. Therefore there was competition for nearly 33 years from March 1987 until 4th January 2020 when the Oxford Bus Company withdrew the X90.
Technically Thames Transit (now Stagecoach Oxford) has been in competition with Oxford Bus Company on the Oxford to Blackbird Leys route since March 1987 as well, but since July 2010 there has been a partnership between the two operators.
In Aberdeen Northern Scottish (& now Stagecoach Bluebird) have operated the 59 between Torry and Northfield via the city centre since 1986 in competition with Grampian Regional Transport (now First Aberdeen) services (7 between Torry & the city centre & 12 between Northfield and the city centre) so 34 years.
In Dundee Strathtay Scottish started running Routemasters in 1986 between Carnoustie and Ninewells Hopsital in competition with Tayside Passenger Transport between Broughty Ferry and Ninewells Hospital. The two operators today are Stagecoach Strathtay (route 75) and Xplore Dundee (route 5) and the 75 still had conductors until March 2020 so another 34 years.
Quote from: CL on November 17, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Question: Is the 16 (Birmingham - Hamstead/West Bromwich) the longest rivalry between two operators? ??? - Not only regionally, but nationally?
Would be interesting to hear of any other routes in competition for over 30 years!
While it's not really competition these days, the 40/410 has had Diamond on there for what seems like an eternity. The 4 has had competition for many years too, with Pete's having started on the 404 back in 1993. I'm not sure on when competition on the 410 started, but I've seen pictures of Birmingham Coach Company Nationals on there which are dated as 1993 too.
Quote from: CL on November 17, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Question: Is the 16 (Birmingham - Hamstead/West Bromwich) the longest rivalry between two operators? ??? - Not only regionally, but nationally?
Would be interesting to hear of any other routes in competition for over 30 years!
Is the 16 the shortest route that serves Birmingham City Centre? NX version I mean.
Quote from: CL on November 17, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Question: Is the 16 (Birmingham - Hamstead/West Bromwich) the longest rivalry between two operators? ??? - Not only regionally, but nationally?
Would be interesting to hear of any other routes in competition for over 30 years!
Claribels on the 94 must be almost 30 years by now. No ownership or name changes on this either!
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 17, 2020, 04:20:38 PM
Is the 16 the shortest route that serves Birmingham City Centre? NX version I mean.
82 to Bearwood.
101 to Handsworth Wood.
Those two possibly just from an eyeballing of a map of Birmingham.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 17, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
82 to Bearwood.
101 to Handsworth Wood.
Those two possibly just from an eyeballing of a map of Birmingham.
The 17 and the 60 are under half an hour to Tile Cross and Cranes Park respectively.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 17, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
The 17 and the 60 are under half an hour to Tile Cross and Cranes Park respectively.
And 25 City Centre - QE Hospital via Ladywood is fairly short as well
And also takes a different route outbound to the route it takes inbound at both ends of the route.
25 is also the only route from Birmingham City Centre that doesn't cross the Outer Circle at any point I think.
As well as probably being NXWM's quietest Birmingham route.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 17, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
82 to Bearwood.
101 to Handsworth Wood.
Those two possibly just from an eyeballing of a map of Birmingham.
Yeah it's interesting how much shorter the 82 is than the 87.
Quote from: 2206 on November 17, 2020, 05:34:44 PM
And 25 City Centre - QE Hospital via Ladywood is fairly short as well
And also takes a different route outbound to the route it takes inbound at both ends of the route.
25 is also the only route from Birmingham City Centre that doesn't cross the Outer Circle at any point I think.
As well as probably being NXWM's quietest Birmingham route.
According to the timetable and google maps, it's a circular so I'm not sure it would be shortest under those circumstances.
Quote from: bususer28 on November 17, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
According to the timetable and google maps, it's a circular so I'm not sure it would be shortest under those circumstances.
Its a very weird route, I think. With a big loop at the QE end and another big loop at the City Centre end with the bit in the middle through Ladywood and down to the Green Man being the same way in both directions (Other than for the one way roads).
And the destination display for the service says QE Hospital via Ladywood.
So not a proper circular route like A7/A8, 11A/11C, 8A/8C.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 17, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
82 to Bearwood.
101 to Handsworth Wood.
Those two possibly just from an eyeballing of a map of Birmingham.
65 to perry common is a short route
Quote from: Lukeee on November 17, 2020, 10:06:07 PM
65 to perry common is a short route
The 22 Wednesbury & Tipton circular is another one that's pretty short, and I'd add the revised Kinver 242 to the list, too.
Halesowen is the only main bus station to not have a train or tram station.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 19, 2020, 09:54:45 PM
Halesowen is the only main bus station to not have a train or tram station.
Dudley station dosent have either of those
It depends on how you define that, if it's within the town, then Dudley Port might just count. If it has to be a feasible interchange though, rather than being a bus ride or long walk away, then yeah, Dudley and Halesowen don't, nor does Merry Hill, and possibly even Coventry.
Quote from: DJ on November 20, 2020, 04:28:59 AM
It depends on how you define that, if it's within the town, then Dudley Port might just count. If it has to be a feasible interchange though, rather than being a bus ride or long walk away, then yeah, Dudley and Halesowen don't, nor does Merry Hill, and possibly even Coventry.
Merry Hill will get off that list when the Metro goes there soon.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2020, 09:02:34 AM
Merry Hill will get off that list when the Metro goes there soon.
It still won't have a railway station. It will have a tram stop
Quote from: Tony on November 20, 2020, 09:43:53 AM
It still won't have a railway station. It will have a tram stop
Yes, which counts, as we're on about a 'train or tram station'.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2020, 09:02:34 AM
Merry Hill will get off that list when the Metro goes there soon.
Dudley too, unless you count the road train at the zoo. ;D
Darlaston?
Wednesbury? (hardly a link between the tram and bus station here)
Quote from: Tony on November 20, 2020, 10:31:56 AM
Darlaston?
Wednesbury? (hardly a link between the tram and bus station here)
If you're saying Wednesbury doesn't then neither does Wolverhampton.
Wednesbury Great Western Street is closer to Wednesbury Bus Station than either St Georges or the railway station.
Quote from: Dom on November 20, 2020, 12:10:15 PM
If you're saying Wednesbury doesn't then neither does Wolverhampton.
Wednesbury Great Western Street is closer to Wednesbury Bus Station than either St Georges or the railway station.
Wolverhampton rail station is about 150m via a dedicated walkway.
Wednesbury Great Western Street is about 300m across a main round and down a grubby side street
Chelmsley Wood
Oldbury Interchange too, if you can count that. Sandwell and Dudley station is a decent walk away.
If we can stretch to just outside the Network area, Kidderminster, Cannock and Bromsgrove are all a bit far from their respective stations.
The 226 is one of the only fare paying routes NXWM have run for one day ever. It ran on Boxing Day 2008 as a centro contract using 2 WB mercs.
Other routes such as the 400 had been repeated a number of years, but the 226 was only ever on that day.
Also, at one stage, the 246 had 3 different NXWM depots doing booked workings on it (PN, WB and WN)
The former 208 has had 7 operators since its inception in 2008 until 2019 (Choice, Arriva, Green Bus, Diamond, Hansons, igo & NXWM)
The 641 was the only TWM route to give change in a change giving experiment in the late 90s. (TMH services were still legally Merry Hill Minibuses Limited then)
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 28, 2020, 02:25:38 PM
The 641 was the only TWM route to give change in a change giving experiment in the late 90s. (TMH services were still legally Merry Hill Minibuses Limited then)
There are several that have given change over the years