Abandoned in favour of road improvements and electric buses according to RouteOne
https://www.route-one.net/environment/coventry-clean-air-zone-is-abandoned/
Quote from: cardew on March 06, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Abandoned in favour of road improvements and electric buses according to RouteOne
https://www.route-one.net/environment/coventry-clean-air-zone-is-abandoned/
QuoteHowever, CCC says it "is absolutely vital" that air quality in the city is addressed.
It plans to do that via measures including highways engineering, improved traffic management and the introduction of electric buses on Foleshill Road.
That would be highly suggesting that the electric buses will be going on the 20 (if they mean the NXC ones). Or the 3/3A (for the short period that it is on Foleshill Road).
Quote from: ellspurs on March 06, 2020, 05:08:09 PM
That would be highly suggesting that the electric buses will be going on the 20 (if they mean the NXC ones). Or the 3/3A (for the short period that it is on Foleshill Road).
It's already been confirmed that the Electrics cannot go on the 20 due to a low bridge (20 is single decker operated)
Quote from: Winston on March 06, 2020, 05:11:14 PM
It's already been confirmed that the Electrics cannot go on the 20 due to a low bridge (20 is single decker operated)
The only part of the 20 route that cannot be operated by a decker is the Woodshires Road section on the 20B. This route used to terminate at Oban Road, circle around and go back up Oban Road to Bedworth Road, omitting Woodshires Road/Wilsons Lane. When it did that, the route was operated by deckers. There's no other low bridge on the 20/20A/20B/20C part of the route.
If that isn't the route that will be receiving the deckers, then either Stagecoach are introducing electrics on the 48/55/56, they're going on the 3/3A (which seems to be a weird promotion for "getting electrics on Foleshill Road) or there's going to be another route change coming up.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 06, 2020, 05:20:50 PM
The only part of the 20 route that cannot be operated by a decker is the Woodshires Road section on the 20B. This route used to terminate at Oban Road, circle around and go back up Oban Road to Bedworth Road, omitting Woodshires Road/Wilsons Lane. When it did that, the route was operated by deckers. There's no other low bridge on the 20/20A/20B/20C part of the route.
If that isn't the route that will be receiving the deckers, then either Stagecoach are introducing electrics on the 48/55/56, they're going on the 3/3A (which seems to be a weird promotion for "getting electrics on Foleshill Road) or there's going to be another route change coming up.
Maybe the 20's are interworked, not that familar with NXC routes. But that's what's been said in the electric buses thread
Quote from: Winston on March 06, 2020, 05:23:24 PM
Maybe the 20's are interworked, not that familar with NXC routes. But that's what's been said in the electric buses thread
Looking at the timetable, it looks like the 20A/20B/20C interwork (the 20 is listed on a separate timetable on the NX website).
Perhaps just electrics for the 20? But the PVR on that will be more than 10, as it runs every 10 minutes to Bedworth/20 minutes to Nuneaton.
I'm somewhat interested on what they'll end up on.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 06, 2020, 05:34:43 PM
Looking at the timetable, it looks like the 20A/20B/20C interwork (the 20 is listed on a separate timetable on the NX website).
Perhaps just electrics for the 20? But the PVR on that will be more than 10, as it runs every 10 minutes to Bedworth/20 minutes to Nuneaton.
I'm somewhat interested on what they'll end up on.
I've already said they are not for the 20
Quote from: Winston on March 06, 2020, 05:23:24 PM
Maybe the 20's are interworked, not that familar with NXC routes. But that's what's been said in the electric buses thread
I assume that is the case - and the interworking of services prevents double deck workings. The 3/3A only operates on Foleshill Rd between Eagle Street and Lockhurst Lane, so not much of it really, while the 5 operates on the section between the Arena Park Bus station entrance and Lythalls Lane (some journeys run short to Burnaby Rd) - so not much more distance wise [although a different part of the road].
Quote from: paulb1973 on March 06, 2020, 05:39:38 PM
I assume that is the case - and the interworking of services prevents double deck workings. The 3/3A only operates on Foleshill Rd between Eagle Street and Lockhurst Lane, so not much of it really, while the 5 operates on the section between the Arena Park Bus station entrance and Lythalls Lane (some journeys run short to Burnaby Rd) - so not much more distance wise [although a different part of the road].
They could go on the 4. Goes between Arena Park and University Hospital; two major bus areas in Coventry. Or they could just go with the obvious choice and pick the 11/11U/12X.
Quote from: cardew on March 06, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Abandoned in favour of road improvements and electric buses according to RouteOne
https://www.route-one.net/environment/coventry-clean-air-zone-is-abandoned/
Council is playing big game politics with government in London and hell bent on avoiding congestion charging. They have been given a second chance to submit a revised plan for approval.
A good place for choking vehicle pollution is Ball Hill. The plan to reduce pollution there is simply by insetting the out of town bus stop. The bus stop change has been completed and I reckon it has made diddly squat difference to the traffic queue and high pollution. The problem is there are too many cars using the road and a pedestrain crossing plus Clay Lane traffic lights. I will be surprised if those in London approve this change. Even if electric buses are put on the polluting cars will still be there.
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 06, 2020, 06:10:04 PM
They could go on the 4. Goes between Arena Park and University Hospital; two major bus areas in Coventry. Or they could just go with the obvious choice and pick the 11/11U/12X.
The 4 runs: Tile Hill – Canley - City (Pool Meadow) – Hillfields - Ball Hill - Stoke Hill - Wyken - University Hospital (the associated 4A is: City, Pool Meadow – Westwood Business Park via Hearsall Common).
Quote from: paulb1973 on March 06, 2020, 06:54:32 PM
The 4 runs: Tile Hill – Canley - City (Pool Meadow) – Hillfields - Ball Hill - Stoke Hill - Wyken - University Hospital (the associated 4A is: City, Pool Meadow – Westwood Business Park via Hearsall Common).
Ah yes I forgot it changed in the recent Coventry changes.
E020-29 are for the 9/9A supposedly.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on March 06, 2020, 06:19:52 PM
Council is playing big game politics with government in London and hell bent on avoiding congestion charging. They have been given a second chance to submit a revised plan for approval.
A good place for choking vehicle pollution is Ball Hill. The plan to reduce pollution there is simply by insetting the out of town bus stop. The bus stop change has been completed and I reckon it has made diddly squat difference to the traffic queue and high pollution. The problem is there are too many cars using the road and a pedestrain crossing plus Clay Lane traffic lights. I will be surprised if those in London approve this change. Even if electric buses are put on the polluting cars will still be there.
If you think traffic is bad on Ball Hill just wait until Very Light Rail route to University Hospital currently proposed to run every three minutes in each direction. Hard luck if you use Clay Lane because there wont be time for you to get out.
Mind you a 44xx Trident caused a cloud that would have made a Leyland Natiinal proud last week!
Quote from: JoNi on March 08, 2020, 03:12:52 AM
If you think traffic is bad on Ball Hill just wait until Very Light Rail route to University Hospital currently proposed to run every three minutes in each direction. Hard luck if you use Clay Lane because there wont be time for you to get out.
Mind you a 44xx Trident caused a cloud that would have made a Leyland Natiinal proud last week!
Good point. Wonder if the council pollution ideas will get approval from London?
Coventry Council website bus section.shows how up to date they are with buses locally!
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/info/118/public_transport/556/buses
The hyperlink to the bus map is the 2018 edition before last years changes!
Quote from: JoNi on March 08, 2020, 04:08:37 PM
Coventry Council website bus section.shows how up to date they are with buses locally!
https://www.coventry.gov.uk/info/118/public_transport/556/buses
The hyperlink to the bus map is the 2018 edition before last years changes!
@JoNi Have you informed them about it by clicking where it says '
Is there anything wrong with this page?' near the bottom of the page?.
@Bus Man K2 Hope you can ask the team at WMNetwork to get the old map(s) such as the one linked in the above page removed from the internet.
Quote from: JPC on March 08, 2020, 05:09:59 PM
@JoNi Have you informed them about it by clicking where it says 'Is there anything wrong with this page?' near the bottom of the page?.
@Bus Man K2 Hope you can ask the team at WMNetwork to get the old map(s) such as the one linked in the above page removed from the internet.
Hi
@JPC this page is nothing to do with the Transport althourity it's down to the Conecil to update.. Maybe
@JoNi may beable to give Coventry Council. a nought?! 😁
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on March 08, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
Hi @JPC this page is nothing to do with the Transport althourity it's down to the Conecil to update.. Maybe @JoNi may beable to give Coventry Council. a nought?!
@Bus Man K2 What I'm asking is WMN needs to remove the old map(s) which is located on one of their servers ( http://static.centro.org.uk/documents/nwm/Map-Guides/Coventry-WEB.pdf )
so whoever clicks on the outdated links to them, which could be repeated on any given website, will get something like a 'file not found' notice rather than an out of date map.
Quote from: JPC on March 08, 2020, 06:30:55 PM
@Bus Man K2
What I'm asking is WMN needs to remove the old map(s) which is located on one of their servers ( http://static.centro.org.uk/documents/nwm/Map-Guides/Coventry-WEB.pdf )
so whoever clicks on the outdated links to them, which could be repeated on any given website, will get something like a 'file not found' notice rather than an out of date map.
Hi
@JPC They have taken it off the server. It's just on the server of the council. So as I said if
@JoNi could prompt the Coulncil to update their server then it should rectifi it.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on March 08, 2020, 06:55:36 PM
Hi @JPC They have taken it off the server. It's just on the server of the council. So as I said if @JoNi could prompt the Coulncil to update their server then it should rectifi it.
@Bus Man K2The aforementioned old maps are publically accessible at this location...
http://static.centro.org.uk/documents/nwm/Map-Guides/
Are you still going to try to tell me they are on the Coventry Council servers?
Quote from: JPC on March 08, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
@Bus Man K2
The aforementioned old maps are publically accessible at this location...
http://static.centro.org.uk/documents/nwm/Map-Guides/
Are you still going to try to tell me they are on the Coventry Council servers?
Ok
@JPC that server may very well be Centro's but they don't use it any more. They've moved to another one I think? That's why you can't see the new ones on there. So I thin it is down to the council to contact TfWM to get the new server added to there links. So as I said earlier if
@JoNi could promt them then that would be great.
I sent a message via their website yesterday afternoon, and the page on the Coventry council website has now been updated - it now links to the 'Maps' page of the Network West Midlands website.
Quote from: Stu on March 09, 2020, 06:23:08 PM
I sent a message via their website yesterday afternoon, and the page on the Coventry council website has now been updated - it now links to the 'Maps' page of the Network West Midlands website.
I also sent a message through the Council webdite yesterday. I'm glad we've got that corrected between the both of our messages!!
Quote from: JPC on March 08, 2020, 05:09:59 PM
@JoNi Have you informed them about it by clicking where it says 'Is there anything wrong with this page?' near the bottom of the page?.
@Bus Man K2 Hope you can ask the team at WMNetwork to get the old map(s) such as the one linked in the above page removed from the internet.
At the moment i'm restricting feedback purely to matters of health and safety. e.g. unroadworthy vehicles etc.
It took 8 weeks to receive reply to non safety related feedback after commitment had been given to do it in 15 days.
Perhaps its more prudent to identify the person responsible for updating so that it doesnt happen again!
Im amazed customer service is not front and centre of the TfWM bus vision with Andy Street as leader on look out for votes.
Just a quick question for those in the know,
The 48 (Coventry to Nuneaton).
Does this route have a low bridge? I've wondered why double deckers weren't introduced on this busy route and instead high spec E200s were opted for.
Quote from: MW on June 12, 2020, 07:25:45 PM
Just a quick question for those in the know,
The 48 (Coventry to Nuneaton).
Does this route have a low bridge? I've wondered why double deckers weren't introduced on this busy route and instead high spec E200s were opted for.
I think there's one just before Bedworth. That's probably why the 20 doesn't use double deckers as well.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 12, 2020, 08:16:16 PM
I think there's one just before Bedworth. That's probably why the 20 doesn't use double deckers as well.
The 20 has been making use of deckers these past few weeks. https://flic.kr/p/2jbaM4Z (not my photo)
To my knowledge, the 20's usually allocated to single deckers because of a low bridge along one of the variant routes.
Quote from: CL on June 12, 2020, 08:22:43 PM
The 20 has been making use of deckers these past few weeks. https://flic.kr/p/2jbaM4Z (not my photo)
To my knowledge, the 20's usually allocated to single deckers because of a low bridge along one of the variant routes.
The rail bridge over Woodshires Road in Coventry (between Wilsons Lane and Oban Rd) precludes double deck working on the NXC 20 group of services (when there is interworking). Stagecoach services don't go that way.
Quote from: paulb1973 on June 12, 2020, 08:38:26 PM
The rail bridge over Woodshires Road in Coventry (between Wilsons Lane and Oban Rd) precludes double deck working on the NXC 20 group of services (when there is interworking). Stagecoach services don't go that way.
According to Google Streetview the bridge is labelled as 3.8m 12'9''.
There was an old railway bridge on Hinckley Road on the east side of Nuneaton which according to Google Streetview, the bridge is labelled as 4.3m 14'39'' so this might have been the reason that single deckers have been used on 48. This railway was the old Nuneaton Avoiding Line which closed on 15/02/1992 but the bridge was only removed in March 2020 i.e. since the E200MMCs were introduced onto the 48.
Quote from: Ian Hardy on June 12, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
According to Google Streetview the bridge is labelled as 3.8m 12'9''.
There was an old railway bridge on Hinckley Road on the east side of Nuneaton which according to Google Streetview, the bridge is labelled as 4.3m 14'39'' so this might have been the reason that single deckers have been used on 48. This railway was the old Nuneaton Avoiding Line which closed on 15/02/1992 but the bridge was only removed in March 2020 i.e. since the E200MMCs were introduced onto the 48.
Why was the bridge removed 20+ years after the line closed?
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 12, 2020, 09:07:38 PM
Why was the bridge removed 20+ years after the line closed?
Because it wasn't being used
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 12, 2020, 09:07:38 PM
Why was the bridge removed 20+ years after the line closed?
As long as the bridge was not a danger to people using the road below and it did not need any maintenance then there was no need to remove it.
If it was going to removed someone would have to pay, Network Rail probably still owned it and there were more pressing uses of Network Rail's funds than to remove the bridge.
Warwickshire County Council announced in October 2017 that it has received a chunk of funds to make improvements along the A47 link road and part of the plan would be to remove the unused railway bridge on Hinckley Road. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-news-hinckley-road-bridge-16783420 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-news-hinckley-road-bridge-16783420)
Quote from: Tony on June 12, 2020, 09:12:53 PM
Because it wasn't being used
And there was continual traffic problems caused every time a tall vehicle hit the bridge. A similar bridge (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5287881,-1.462596,3a,75y,71.11h,80.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZgHrST5s37Amw7lOX5xH4w!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656) for the other side of the disused railtrack on Weddington Road was removed late 2011, even though it didn't have a height restriction. Criminals used to clamber up to the tracks from the housing estate behind and use it as a quick escape route.
Quote from: paulb1973 on June 12, 2020, 08:38:26 PM
The rail bridge over Woodshires Road in Coventry (between Wilsons Lane and Oban Rd) precludes double deck working on the NXC 20 group of services (when there is interworking). Stagecoach services don't go that way.
Way back when, the current 20B which runs down Woodshires Road used to terminate at the bottom of Oban Road, turn around and head back up Oban Road to Bedworth Road to continue back to Coventry. When the 20 was converted to a PrimeLines route back in the late 1990s (link (https://web.archive.org/web/20101016095301/http://www.coventry.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/transport-and-streets/primelines/corridors/corridor-1---foleshill-road--and-longford-/)), the fleet went to single decker, and the 20A (current 20B) started to loop down Woodshires Road and Wilson's Lane back to Bedworth Road. Those two roads were initially hail-and-ride, which was nice for me to leave my relative's house on Woodshires Road when I saw the bus coming to catch it immediately.
The 20B hasn't been running through the reduced services, so NXC have been able to use double deckers on the route.
Quote from: Ian Hardy on June 12, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
According to Google Streetview the bridge is labelled as 3.8m 12'9''.
There was an old railway bridge on Hinckley Road on the east side of Nuneaton which according to Google Streetview, the bridge is labelled as 4.3m 14'39'' so this might have been the reason that single deckers have been used on 48. This railway was the old Nuneaton Avoiding Line which closed on 15/02/1992 but the bridge was only removed in March 2020 i.e. since the E200MMCs were introduced onto the 48.
Stagecoach briefly ran Tridents under this bridge on the 157 Nuneaton - Leicester before it became part of the 48. Stagecoach standard Trident/ALX400s have low height bodies.
My guess (and it
is a guess) as to why Stagecoach use single deckers on the 48 is that Stagecoach have decided that frequency is the most important thing (there is competition over all the route now), and loadings do not justify double decks. Note that in normal times NX Coventry 20 and Arriva 158 are both usually single deck as well.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on June 12, 2020, 10:14:52 PM
Stagecoach briefly ran Tridents under this bridge on the 157 Nuneaton - Leicester before it became part of the 48. Stagecoach standard Trident/ALX400s have low height bodies.
My guess (and it is a guess) as to why Stagecoach use single deckers on the 48 is that Stagecoach have decided that frequency is the most important thing (there is competition over all the route now), and loadings do not justify double decks. Note that in normal times NX Coventry 20 and Arriva 158 are both usually single deck as well.
I don't ever remember Stagecoach using double deckers on the 48 route, unless it was in the mid 90s. When the Foleshill Road became a PrimeLines route in the late 90s, Stagecoach and TWM were part of it. From the spec (https://web.archive.org/web/20101016095942/http://www.coventry.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/transport-and-streets/public-transport/buses/primelines/more-about-primelines/) regarding it, it looks like they were prioritising low floor vehicles for the routes, of which there weren't that many options on deckers at the time.
I had seen Arriva starting to use more deckers on the 158 pre-COVID now that the bridge has been removed.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 13, 2020, 05:34:13 AM
I don't ever remember Stagecoach using double deckers on the 48 route, unless it was in the mid 90s. When the Foleshill Road became a PrimeLines route in the late 90s, Stagecoach and TWM were part of it. From the spec (https://web.archive.org/web/20101016095942/http://www.coventry.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/transport-and-streets/public-transport/buses/primelines/more-about-primelines/) regarding it, it looks like they were prioritising low floor vehicles for the routes, of which there weren't that many options on deckers at the time.
I had seen Arriva starting to use more deckers on the 158 pre-COVID now that the bridge has been removed.
Nuneaton garage had a batch of 5 Tridents brand new which were supposed to be for the 157 although a couple were not branded. They could have ventured on to the 48 on a very odd occasion. They only stayed for around 6 weeks before being moved to Hampshire so it is unlikely.
I was lucky enough to visit Nuneaton in April 2006 so was one of the few people to get photos of them
Here is 18502 http://wmbusphotos.com/Stagecoach/10000/18502.html
Quote from: Tony on June 13, 2020, 08:54:51 AM
Nuneaton garage had a batch of 5 Tridents brand new which were supposed to be for the 157 although a couple were not branded. They could have ventured on to the 48 on a very odd occasion. They only stayed for around 6 weeks before being moved to Hampshire so it is unlikely.
I was lucky enough to visit Nuneaton in April 2006 so was one of the few people to get photos of them
Here is 18502 http://wmbusphotos.com/Stagecoach/10000/18502.html
Ah, interesting! I was working on Weddington Road at that time, and used to commute home via Tuttle Hill/Camp Hill Road. I must've never seen them on either the 157 route Justin mentioned earlier or the 48 if they ventured across there.
The Tridents were obtained for the 157 because some peak journeys were overloading single decks at the Leicester end. At the time the 157 and 158 were both hourly but ran approx a half hour apart, so it was close to a 30 mins service between the two. I think the plan was that any spare Tridents could be used on the 48, and IIRC one was scheduled to do an early 48 to Coventry and back before spending the day on the 157. I was working in Nuneaton at the time and I saw one on the 48 once.
It was very brief, as Tony says. This was because Arrive decided to increase the 158 to every 20 mins. Stagecoach responded by replacing the 157 with a new Leicester leg of the 48, also every 20 mins, so DDs sadly could no longer be justified.
Is there a date when all buses in Coventry have to be electric or non-diesel to meet the government pollution target? I think it is all do with reducing Coventry's high pollution numbers.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 04, 2021, 10:08:38 PM
Is there a date when all buses in Coventry have to be electric or non-diesel to meet the government pollution target? I think it is all do with reducing Coventry's high pollution numbers.
About 4 years away
Thanks Tony
Quote from: cardew on March 06, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Abandoned in favour of road improvements and electric buses according to RouteOne
https://www.route-one.net/environment/coventry-clean-air-zone-is-abandoned/
Heavy traffic jams on east side of Coventry tonight.
Best rename the area the very badly polluted air zone.