WM Bus Photos Forum

Which one do you prefer, personally I prefer the spectra. I know they break down more and they're older but I find them more comfortable to travel on. The tridents are all the same and rattle too much for my liking. 

Tridents. fast, comfy, good interior and the zf ones sound good and are really quick

I was on 4013 yesterday on the 79 and thought that the suspension was very soft compared to a Trident. They are a lot more comfortable than a Trident, and the seats are a lot better too, even though they are laid out unusually. I do really like the Spectra's though and will miss them if they are withdrawn next year, only having 21, they are a lot more unusual than the Trident. Trident's rattle a lot, and the DAF engines in the spectra's sound a lot better. I did notice yesterday that a Trident has more power and accelerates faster than a Spectra.

I remember when they were at Central waiting to see if one turned up on the Bristol or Pershore Road and go on it rather than a Trident, President or Volvo B7 ALX400. A good ride for a Spectra was the old 139 (there was usually at least one on there every day), a good hour ride from Merry Hill, I would see if there was one on there on the way to Merry Hill and time it right to catch the Spectra on the way back.

So definitely a Spectra!

Quote from: Andrew1991 on July 15, 2012, 04:56:13 PM
Which one do you prefer, personally I prefer the spectra. I know they break down more and they're older but I find them more comfortable to travel on. The tridents are all the same and rattle too much for my liking. 

I think this is a difficult question to answer for alot of people as the spectra's have only been at 2 garages and normally stop on the same group of service while at the garages. Personally i prefer the tridents but only the older ones, and also i prefer Coventry tridents the most especially the refurbed ones they just seem in better condition all round little etching etc

The Spectras have a gloomy interior with great swathes of grey plastic and no rear window-a SIN!!-the back is hideously ugly and hence why it sold in extremely small numbers compared to the trident and volvo b7tl.

Trident hands down.
Though I do prefer the legroom of the Spectra's upper deck compared to the Tridents (where I usually end up sitting sideways if I'm sitting on the seats on the left of the deck)

Quote from: Peter123 on July 15, 2012, 06:22:31 PM
The Spectras have a gloomy interior with great swathes of grey plastic and no rear window-a SIN!!-the back is hideously ugly and hence why it sold in extremely small numbers compared to the trident and volvo b7tl.

And because it's an Optare.

I've never been on a TWM Spectra but I went on a First Eastern Counties(step entrance) one in Norfolk last week on the 1 and it was very good actually. The interior was in need of a bright relift but in terms of engine and rattling etc. it was fine. The suspension was a bit too hard but I prefer it to a trident for sure. Must recommend the Norfolk bus routes, very good rides and with a Wright Renown getting to run to top speed at some points....The Renown I must say was excellent although that is nothing to do with Tridents.

Cant choose between either personally, Spectras have their hideous sides, poor reliability, bit more worse for wear, gloomy interior, but when they fly they fly (4002 and 4010 fastest ones), legroom is generous and the seats are comfy, mind you they are the standard from that era, still waiting to see 4016s upper deck refurb. Tridents are brilliant all round, but I augment other peoples views on rattling, i dont find all Tridents the same, look hard enough they all well most have some sort of unique quality, for example 4370

The Trident is a much more capable bus and so gets my vote.  However, the Spectra looks more stylish (the non-low floor versions were better still).  I rarely catch a Spectra now, but I took the opportunity to do a full Wolves - West Brom trip on one on the 79.  I didn't have high expectations but I was impressed - it was tidy and ran well.

4016 has just been retrimmed into same seat material, so it all looks nice and pristine. shame they didn't do downstairs. for me, got to be trident with zf every time.

Hmm hard one, but id have to say Tridents, my favourite bus type :)

If the spectras had back window downstairs I reckon they would be on a par with the tridents but I am afraid the trident wins also are more reliable I am afraid suprised as Daf engines are very good my truck has one and it pulls great like the spectras do.

I think the people best qualified to answer this would be the management, maintenance staff and drivers at Park Lane, and every one of those that I have spoken to is counting down the days to when the hybrids are introduced and the Spectras (and the other Optares at Park Lane) are moved out for the last time.  To quote one driver on the 255 when he saw he was taking over a Spectra instead of the usual Trident - "oh no, not this heap of sh**".

It is also notable that Travel West Midlands, having bought over 100 Optares in 1998 and 1999, have since ignored Optare completely when buying new buses. 

As far as the Spectras are concerned, the first 22 were bought because they were the only low floor double deckers available at the time.  I think that 4001 was the first production low floor double deck bus built, but was not the first one in service.  TWM organised a noon launch of 4001 as the first low floor double decker in service in the country, only for ABUS of Bristol to put Optare Spectra S222 AJP into service at 0650 the same morning to scupper the launch.

However, after the first batch, the next 100 buses ordered were the Presidents, which suggests that the 22 Spectras did not come up to expectation.

Quote from: Roy on July 16, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
I think the people best qualified to answer this would be the management, maintenance staff and drivers at Park Lane, and every one of those that I have spoken to is counting down the days to when the hybrids are introduced and the Spectras (and the other Optares at Park Lane) are moved out for the last time.  To quote one driver on the 255 when he saw he was taking over a Spectra instead of the usual Trident - "oh no, not this heap of sh**".

It is also notable that Travel West Midlands, having bought over 100 Optares in 1998 and 1999, have since ignored Optare completely when buying new buses. 

As far as the Spectras are concerned, the first 22 were bought because they were the only low floor double deckers available at the time.  I think that 4001 was the first production low floor double deck bus built, but was not the first one in service.  TWM organised a noon launch of 4001 as the first low floor double decker in service in the country, only for ABUS of Bristol to put Optare Spectra S222 AJP into service at 0650 the same morning to scupper the launch.

However, after the first batch, the next 100 buses ordered were the Presidents, which suggests that the 22 Spectras did not come up to expectation.

and in 1998 to 1999 wolves was also the old buses home as they had almost all the nasty nasty nasty exels and solos which were crap apart from a few routes

Didnt the Nationals run at Wolves until this time? I remember wondering why Twm would spend all the money they did re engineing a number of them with Volvo engines in the mid 90s only to withdraw them a couple of years later! what a waste!

Quote from: Roy on July 16, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
I think the people best qualified to answer this would be the management, maintenance staff and drivers at Park Lane, and every one of those that I have spoken to is counting down the days to when the hybrids are introduced and the Spectras (and the other Optares at Park Lane) are moved out for the last time.  To quote one driver on the 255 when he saw he was taking over a Spectra instead of the usual Trident - "oh no, not this heap of sh**".

It is also notable that Travel West Midlands, having bought over 100 Optares in 1998 and 1999, have since ignored Optare completely when buying new buses. 

As far as the Spectras are concerned, the first 22 were bought because they were the only low floor double deckers available at the time.  I think that 4001 was the first production low floor double deck bus built, but was not the first one in service.  TWM organised a noon launch of 4001 as the first low floor double decker in service in the country, only for ABUS of Bristol to put Optare Spectra S222 AJP into service at 0650 the same morning to scupper the launch.

However, after the first batch, the next 100 buses ordered were the Presidents, which suggests that the 22 Spectras did not come up to expectation.

I guess also they must have had a 'good deal' with Optare as they may have done with Scania as since the last batch of Scanias they have gone with the Volvo's since. I guess also what must come into consideration is the garentee and maintenence costs/contracts!

To reflect I think it is difficult to compare a bus made in the late 90's which was a new concept at the time to a modern bus where the build is common place amongst manufacturers. Some Spectras are crap but sime Tridents are also and obviously taking the age of the Spectras into consideration it is obvious they will not be as reliable as newer buses (even the new B7's are in and out the garage for repairs/faults just like the Spectra's)
Forgive me if I sould a hypocrite as generally I take the P*** out of the Spectra's however you can ask any of the current drivers at Park Lane and ask them what the best bus is and 90% of them will say 'The old METRO's!)

Any NXWM driver that was driving when Metrobuses were in service would say Metrobuses were the best whether they knew anything about buses or not

I loved the metrobuses, maybe I like the older buses or something. But saying that I like the newer buses nx have got too.

Quote from: 4006 on July 16, 2012, 09:01:56 PM

Quote from: Roy on July 16, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
I think the people best qualified to answer this would be the management, maintenance staff and drivers at Park Lane, and every one of those that I have spoken to is counting down the days to when the hybrids are introduced and the Spectras (and the other Optares at Park Lane) are moved out for the last time.  To quote one driver on the 255 when he saw he was taking over a Spectra instead of the usual Trident - "oh no, not this heap of sh**".

It is also notable that Travel West Midlands, having bought over 100 Optares in 1998 and 1999, have since ignored Optare completely when buying new buses. 

As far as the Spectras are concerned, the first 22 were bought because they were the only low floor double deckers available at the time.  I think that 4001 was the first production low floor double deck bus built, but was not the first one in service.  TWM organised a noon launch of 4001 as the first low floor double decker in service in the country, only for ABUS of Bristol to put Optare Spectra S222 AJP into service at 0650 the same morning to scupper the launch.

However, after the first batch, the next 100 buses ordered were the Presidents, which suggests that the 22 Spectras did not come up to expectation.

I guess also they must have had a 'good deal' with Optare as they may have done with Scania as since the last batch of Scanias they have gone with the Volvo's since. I guess also what must come into consideration is the garentee and maintenence costs/contracts!

To reflect I think it is difficult to compare a bus made in the late 90's which was a new concept at the time to a modern bus where the build is common place amongst manufacturers. Some Spectras are crap but sime Tridents are also and obviously taking the age of the Spectras into consideration it is obvious they will not be as reliable as newer buses (even the new B7's are in and out the garage for repairs/faults just like the Spectra's)
Forgive me if I sould a hypocrite as generally I take the P*** out of the Spectra's however you can ask any of the current drivers at Park Lane and ask them what the best bus is and 90% of them will say 'The old METRO's!)

NX seem to swap between manufactuers like they brought in quite a few omnilinks then changed to the eclipses, this was similar to when they brought the geminis from 2003-6 its taken 5 years before any more were ordered. As the trident and enviro400 seem to take preference in choice. Its also similar to when the merc were ordered NX could have sticked with merecedes and brought in citaro's but went with volvo and brought in the eclipses when bringing in new single deckers in 2006. Variety is good though makes the fleet more interesting and i guess NX have just shopped around for the best deals for large orders and companies that meet there expectations and specifications on vehicles.

Euro 4 engined Trident for me, especially the Enviro400 bodied ones

No competition for me, Tridents are my favourite buses ever, like Matt said, the Euro 4 engined examples sound great

Very tough one for me, I would actually say Spectra I think, closely followed by any BV52 Trident in the fleet :P Not a fan of the ZF tridents though. 

Quite hard to pick. I have both Tridents and Some Spectra's on the 59 near to where i live

There will never be a 'standard' NX bus like the Fleetlines & the Metros will there!

Quote from: Westy on May 15, 2013, 11:22:48 PM
There will never be a 'standard' NX bus like the Fleetlines & the Metros will there!

I think the O405Ns are a contender, as they aren't common buses outside the NXWM fleet, Whittles have an O405N but I don't know of any other companies in the Midlands who do and I haven't ever seen any others around the country

The Mercs we have in NXWM land are pretty unique to the UK. However the chassis are combined with the Optare Prisma bodywork I believe, a chassis/bdy combo that did sell in small pockets, EYMS have about ten of these active

Quote from: Ashley 4569 on May 16, 2013, 12:06:02 AM
The Mercs we have in NXWM land are pretty unique to the UK. However the chassis are combined with the Optare Prisma bodywork I believe, a chassis/bdy combo that did sell in small pockets, EYMS have about ten of these active

122 were built, North East Bus which WMT once owned had a batch of 25

http://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/index.htm?http://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/list.asp?listname=238&Type=Body

What I mean is NX will not concentrate on mainly one vehicle type like the PTE tried to do .

Apart from what was inherited from the municipals, the PTE tried to standardise on Fleetlines, later Metrobuses & Nationals.

There was only 2 deviations, the VRs & the Alisa Volvos.

Compared with modern day NX & Tridents, Scanias, Enviros, Volvos, Mercedes etc, there isnt a bus which sums up the West Midlands, like the London Routemaster.

Quote from: Ashley 4569 on May 16, 2013, 12:06:02 AM
The Mercs we have in NXWM land are pretty unique to the UK. However the chassis are combined with the Optare Prisma bodywork I believe, a chassis/bdy combo that did sell in small pockets, EYMS have about ten of these active

There were only 204 standard Mercedes Benz O.405N built for the UK market. The first ten built by UVG before it collapsed and the remainder built by Mercedes at Tankersley. TWM got 193 of these new and later got the second demonstrator/maintenance float (becoming 1743). The other ten comprised of the original demonstrator plus two for Finglands, one for Go West of Kings Lynn and the final six for Citybus in Belfast. The latter now work in Derry/Londonderry for Ulsterbus.

The 122 Optare Prisma models were built on the higher floor Mercedes Benz O.405 chassis rather than the low-floor O.405N (just checked it out to see if I have that fact correct)

Quote from: Westy on May 16, 2013, 09:25:59 AM
What I mean is NX will not concentrate on mainly one vehicle type like the PTE tried to do .
Apart from what was inherited from the municipals, the PTE tried to standardise on Fleetlines, later Metrobuses & Nationals.
There was only 2 deviations, the VRs & the Alisa Volvos.
Compared with modern day NX & Tridents, Scanias, Enviros, Volvos, Mercedes etc, there isnt a bus which sums up the West Midlands, like the London Routemaster.

Sadly those days are long gone, except for the Boris Bus, where he's got the volume to play with, aligned to serious political muscle in the shape of TfL.  The other urban centres simply don't have the clout - or the political unity in many cases, to make anything like that happen.  Not that the likes of Centro have any Engineering 'teeth' anyway, that they could pull together a serious product specification.  All that is in the hands of the supply side nowadays. 

I know I'm showing my age here, but those Left-leaning days of bus types peculiar to the different municipals were great.  Nottingham with its cutaway Atlanteans, the unique Manchester PTE look, Merseyside's frowning deckers, Lothian and Glasgow's different takes on the dealer-stock Alexander bodywork... 

Quote from: Ashley 4569 on May 16, 2013, 12:06:02 AM
The Mercs we have in NXWM land are pretty unique to the UK.

It's for this reason that our Mercs are my fave volume local type, plus they are reminiscent of time spent in Germany, where their almost Lego-inspired Teutonic 'styling' seems very much at home!

Quote from: 4130Quinton on May 16, 2013, 11:27:16 AM

Quote from: Ashley 4569 on May 16, 2013, 12:06:02 AM
The Mercs we have in NXWM land are pretty unique to the UK. However the chassis are combined with the Optare Prisma bodywork I believe, a chassis/bdy combo that did sell in small pockets, EYMS have about ten of these active

There were only 204 standard Mercedes Benz O.405N built for the UK market. The first ten built by UVG before it collapsed and the remainder built by Mercedes at Tankersley. TWM got 193 of these new and later got the second demonstrator/maintenance float (becoming 1743). The other ten comprised of the original demonstrator plus two for Finglands, one for Go West of Kings Lynn and the final six for Citybus in Belfast. The latter now work in Derry/Londonderry for Ulsterbus.

The 122 Optare Prisma models were built on the higher floor Mercedes Benz O.405 chassis rather than the low-floor O.405N (just checked it out to see if I have that fact correct)

Do you know who originally purchased the two with EYMS/Whittle?

They are the two Finglands ones

Quote from: 4130Quinton on May 16, 2013, 11:27:16 AM

The 122 Optare Prisma models were built on the higher floor Mercedes Benz O.405 chassis rather than the low-floor O.405N (just checked it out to see if I have that fact correct)

Well spotted never clocked that one, forgot they were step entrance

From a drivers point of view definatly the Trident.

The Spectra,
The dashboard layout is very poor, the dash itself is too high, the who cab has a cheap feel. Even at BC after a year or two old some of the plastic switches had cracked or broken away. The steering wheels wore rapidly compared to the Tridents, resulting in a sponge like feeling full of dirt and oil. The cab door had a gap underneath of about half an inch which was annoying if anything fell out of your pocket it ended up rolling onto the platform. Even the cctv screen in the cab is in black and white!

Driving them felt slow, bouncy and cumbersome.

Where as the Trident felt fast, solid and comfortable.

spectras are superb and will be a real loss when they go! I think all optare buses new and old are great!