I was wondering whether the 10H should now be renumbered?
In the Birmingham area we now have the 10 / 10H / 10S and X10 all which have little in common. (Obv the 10 and 10S are similar in Quinton) so is it now time go remember the 10S to something like the 20 or 25?
Remembered for what?
lol
@Stu, think he means renumbered.
Problem is with in the West Midlands now you have 99 numbers you can use thanks to the, in my opinion, idiotic ruling that each area needs it own individual bus network. When the WMPTE took over from Midland Red in the Black Country, they got rid of routes like the S47 and D9 and we got the 2XX routes.
So to renumber the 10H at this time would be rather pointless imo when spare numbers maybe required in the future?
Quote from: Stu on January 29, 2020, 07:06:51 PM
Remembered for what?
Remembered for Diamond Buses utter failure to make it a commercial operation perhaps?
Renumbered? Scrapped more like. I never see it carrying anything other than fresh air. At least the 10 gets some patronage.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 29, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
lol @Stu, think he means renumbered.
Problem is with in the West Midlands now you have 99 numbers you can use thanks to the, in my opinion, idiotic ruling that each area needs it own individual bus network. When the WMPTE took over from Midland Red in the Black Country, they got rid of routes like the S47 and D9 and we got the 2XX routes.
So to renumber the 10H at this time would be rather pointless imo when spare numbers maybe required in the future?
Lol, yes I know they meant 'renumbered', I was being facetious ;)
For the avoidance of doubt, I'll edit the OP.
Personally, I don't use any of the 10 / 10H / 10S services, so I can't really comment on how well they are used.
But I do think there should be some kind of review and consultation to determine what the future of these routes should be, perhaps they could be revised to incorporate parts of other services, or combined into some new circular-type service.
Might I suggest use of the number 25? Would fit in better alongside the current 24 service between Birmingham and Quinton.
Quote from: Stu on January 29, 2020, 08:46:50 PM
But I do think there should be some kind of review and consultation to determine what the future of these routes should be, perhaps they could be revised to incorporate parts of other services, or combined into some new circular-type service.
Might I suggest use of the number 25? Would fit in better alongside the current 24 service between Birmingham and Quinton.
I've said this before. I can't understand why they're carrying on under their current form. Even tendered routes surely have to have a point to them. These 10Hs have to be a waste of milage, driver hours etc.
Quote from: Stu on January 29, 2020, 08:46:50 PM
Lol, yes I know they meant 'renumbered', I was being facetious ;)
For the avoidance of doubt, I'll edit the OP.
Personally, I don't use any of the 10 / 10H / 10S services, so I can't really comment on how well they are used.
But I do think there should be some kind of review and consultation to determine what the future of these routes should be, perhaps they could be revised to incorporate parts of other services, or combined into some new circular-type service.
Might I suggest use of the number 25? Would fit in better alongside the current 24 service between Birmingham and Quinton.
A lot of people have suggested this on the "If you had the power to modify or create a new service what should you do?"
10: Renumber as the 24A and make it run alongside the 24. No change to the timetable. However Augustus Road wouldn't be served.
10H: Renumber as the 25 and make it run between Birmingham and Shenley Fields. No change to the route however I would increase the frequency to 30 minutes considering that was the old 29A frequency from a couple of years ago.
10S: Withdraw it. Don't see a point in the route. Since it inter works with the 54/54A, the 54/54A could extend to Selly Oak every hour replacing it. It's a alternative West Bromwich to Selly Oak link to the 48. (Not sure if it's quicker than the 48 but we move).
Quote from: MasterPlan on January 29, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
I've said this before. I can't understand why they're carrying on under their current form. Even tendered routes surely have to have a point to them. These 10Hs have to be a waste of milage, driver hours etc.
The 36 (Heartlands Hospital to Sparkbrook) doesn't. All it is a quicker link to Acocks Green and it's unusual frequency doesn't really help either.
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 29, 2020, 09:09:47 PM
A lot of people have suggested this on the "If you had the power to modify or create a new service what should you do?"
10: Renumber as the 24A and make it run alongside the 24. No change to the timetable. However Augustus Road wouldn't be served.
10H: Renumber as the 25 and make it run between Birmingham and Shenley Fields. No change to the route however I would increase the frequency to 30 minutes considering that was the old 29A frequency from a couple of years ago.
10S: Withdraw it. Don't see a point in the route. Since it inter works with the 54/54A, the 54/54A could extend to Selly Oak every hour replacing it. It's a alternative West Bromwich to Selly Oak link to the 48. (Not sure if it's quicker than the 48 but we move).
I'd definitely renumber one of them to the 25 and terminate up at Shenley Fields.
The 29A was every 20 mins though as far as I remember.
Probably could incorporate it into the Harborne corridor. Reduce the frequency of the 23/24 slightly to every 12 mins or something and run the 25 every 20 mins. Can go along War Lane to compensate for the 23 frequency being reduced.
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 29, 2020, 09:09:47 PM
A lot of people have suggested this on the "If you had the power to modify or create a new service what should you do?"
10: Renumber as the 24A and make it run alongside the 24. No change to the timetable. However Augustus Road wouldn't be served.
10H: Renumber as the 25 and make it run between Birmingham and Shenley Fields. No change to the route however I would increase the frequency to 30 minutes considering that was the old 29A frequency from a couple of years ago.
10S: Withdraw it. Don't see a point in the route. Since it inter works with the 54/54A, the 54/54A could extend to Selly Oak every hour replacing it. It's a alternative West Bromwich to Selly Oak link to the 48. (Not sure if it's quicker than the 48 but we move).
10H is very underused, the current form should be scrapped, people to the QE and Uni and Edgbaston take the X20's. I caught 6888 on there today, waste of a double decker realy.
Not sure how there could be an extension to Shenley Fields without a change to route, as it would still have to serve the Uni and QE, which is pointless.
6888 was also 15 minutes late and not tracking, so had no idea if it was actually going to turn up.
The current 10H (City Centre - QE/Uni via Ladywood) has no connection with the 24 either
@Stu
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 29, 2020, 09:11:03 PM
The 36 (Heartlands Hospital to Sparkbrook) doesn't. All it is a quicker link to Acocks Green and it's unusual frequency doesn't really help either.
The 36 provides some very useful links & covers roads which otherwise would be out of ITA standards (& yes they are well used on those roads from people who otherwise would find it difficult to get to a bus).
People look at tendered routes saying what's the point they dont carry many, well for those that use them they are a vital lifeline.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 29, 2020, 09:58:44 PM
The 36 provides some very useful links & covers roads which otherwise would be out of ITA standards (& yes they are well used on those roads from people who otherwise would find it difficult to get to a bus).
People look at tendered routes saying what's the point they dont carry many, well for those that use them they are a vital lifeline.
Though with the 10H other than one road in Ladywood, every other road has frequent alternative services.
6888 only carried two people earlier on the 14:30 - 1 from Spring Hill Island to Ladywood and 1 from Ladywood to Uni Station.
Usually it's completely empty or takes the odd person confused because they thought they were on the X20.
Quote from: 2206 on January 29, 2020, 10:01:55 PM
Though with the 10H other than one road in the Ladywood, every other road has frequent alternative services.
You may as well scrap it without a replacement, doubt anyone would even notice it's gone, let alone it existing.
It can be remembered for being one of the most pointless routes in Birmingham, beating the 38.
Quote from: 2206 on January 29, 2020, 10:01:55 PM
Though with the 10H other than one road in the Ladywood, every other road has frequent alternative services.
6888 only carried two people earlier on the 14:30 - 1 from Spring Hill Island to Ladywood and 1 from Ladywood to Uni Station.
My own TfWM 24 provides vital links off the Rowley Road which would require an uphill walk to the X8 which many users could not manage.
I think part of the problem is that these services are subsidised and when they put the Tenders out, they don't show much imagination and look to see how the services can be improved.
Have always said in Stourbridge the 298/9 could be combined with the 7 which would open up new oppurtunity's for people on those routes.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 29, 2020, 10:09:21 PM
I think part of the problem is that these services are subsidised and when they put the Tenders out, they don't show much imagination and look to see how the services can be improved.
Have always said in Stourbridge the 298/9 could be combined with the 7 which would open up new oppurtunity's for people on those routes.
The tendering rules are strict a business case has to be put by the operator as a sustainable option at TfWM for what you describe to happen the best example I can give is the 24 & 208 becoming part of the commercial 14 when NXWM provided an acceptable business in lieu of the actual tender the same applies to the 54 and 10 award.
Yes, sorry autocorrect changed renumbered to remembered. Thank you Stu for amending the original post.
Rightly or wrongly the 10H now provides a Ladywood to QE link that has only existed in recent years. This link was never considered necessary before and from my experience the 10H is not exactly busy.
What about renumbering the 10 as the X24 if the route in Quinton can be aligned more closely with that of the 24.
Could the 10H and 10S be combined to run Birmingham to Selly Oak perhaps as an off peak only 25?
Ravenhurst Road seems quite popular so could the 54A be extended to the QE along the current 10S route... or some off peak 48s could go via Ravenhurst Road.
There's lots of possibilities which could be considered.
@Stuharris 6360 I also like your idea of combining the 298/299 with the 7.
Similarly the way things are going the 14 could be combined with the 231! :)
Quote from: sonic84 on January 29, 2020, 10:27:51 PM
Yes, sorry autocorrect changed renumbered to remembered. Thank you Stu for amending the original post.
Rightly or wrongly the 10H now provides a Ladywood to QE link that has only existed in recent years. This link was never considered necessary before and from my experience the 10H is not exactly busy.
What about renumbering the 10 as the X24 if the route in Quinton can be aligned more closely with that of the 24.
Could the 10H and 10S be combined to run Birmingham to Selly Oak perhaps as an off peak only 25?
Ravenhurst Road seems quite popular so could the 54A be extended to the QE along the current 10S route... or some off peak 48s could go via Ravenhurst Road.
There's lots of possibilities which could be considered.
@Stuharris 6360 I also like your idea of combining the 298/299 with the 7.
Similarly the way things are going the 14 could be combined with the 231! :)
@sonic84 the 14 will not be combined with the 231 under any circumstances I can assure you the 14 uses Kent Road & Manor Way the 231 Mucklow Hill and Narrow Lane they are very different routes and impossible to integrate I can assure you.
The 10H lost the only useful part of the route. Tesco to the QE. It's current form is utterly pointless and contributing to climate change just by running the stupid service. I caught the 10 the other evening too, and tbf that was much better used, with at least 6-7 people on the first departure from Birmingham in the evening, shame it happens to be a rattly e200
Quote from: Trident 4194 on January 29, 2020, 11:00:09 PM
The 10H lost the only useful part of the route. Tesco to the QE. It's current form is utterly pointless and contributing to climate change just by running the stupid service. I caught the 10 the other evening too, and tbf that was much better used, with at least 6-7 people on the first departure from Birmingham in the evening, shame it happens to be a rattly e200
6 - 7 people on board isn't exactly a great success.
As I've said previously it isnt about making the route a "success", it's about performing a vital service for people who would otherwise be unable to walk to a core bus route.
Regarding renumbering in general personally i think changing the 3xx 4xx 5xx area numbers was a bit of a stupid thing to do. If it aint broke.....
Quote from: sonic84 link=topic=5666.msg273753#msg273753
Could the 10H and 10S be combined to run Birmingham to Selly Oak perhaps as an off peak only 25?
I preferred it when it ran to Northfield. Much quicker than the 27!
Quote from: Jack on January 29, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
You may as well scrap it without a replacement, doubt anyone would even notice it's gone, let alone it existing.
It can be remembered for being one of the most pointless routes in Birmingham, beating the 38.
Hey, the old, old 98 route (from Sheldon Wheatsheaf, Coventry Road to Hay Mills Asda, Coventry Road via every back road it could find) is up at the top of the pointless route chart.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 31, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
Hey, the old, old 98 route (from Sheldon Wheatsheaf, Coventry Road to Hay Mills Asda, Coventry Road via every back road it could find) is up at the top of the pointless route chart.
Did it used to serve Rowlands road, Manor House Lane and Ridpool Road?
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 31, 2020, 05:13:29 PM
Did it used to serve Rowlands road, Manor House Lane and Ridpool Road?
Rowlands Road/Manor House Lane no, Ridpool Road yes.
https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/XDAAAOSwbzpdWbEw/$/Travel-West-Midlands-route-98-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-_57.jpg
Used to love bouncing along on the back of a 98 to do the 10 minute journey along the Coventry Road in 68 minutes.