From the Express & Star:
A rail operator is exploring plans to develop a new train service between Stourbridge and Brierley Hill.
The proposed route would take passengers between Stourbridge Junction and the Waterfront, with six stops along the way. An extension could also branch off to Pensnett.
Stourbridge Shuttle's operator has launched a public consultation into the proposed line - dubbed The Dudley & Stourbridge Light Railway - to gauge the public's view.
It could see a similar service, like the existing line between Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town Centre, operate with a small Parry People Mover train.
The aim of the train line would be to improve connectivity within the Dudley borough and reduce congestion on the region's gridlocked roads.
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At both ends of the proposed line, shuttle passengers would be able to connect with other rail services.
The Canal Street stop, in Brierley Hill, would act as an interchange with the Midland Metro, which is set to open in 2023. Passengers could also connect with Park & Ride bus services.
In Stourbridge, Stourbridge Junction has train services connected to the National Rail network.
But before any plans can move forward, PMOL needs to find out if this idea is welcomed by the public.
John Poole, owner of Oakham Research which is carrying out the survey, said: "Our remit, as market researchers, is to find out at this stage, on behalf of Stourbridge Shuttle's operator Pre Metro Operations Limited, if there is a demand for this new line.
"From what I understand, there are no plans to extend the Midland Metro from Stourbridge to Brierley Hill, so this line would help to connect another step in the integrated transport system."
Full article, including link to survey, here: https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2019/12/09/survey-launched-on-stourbridge-to-brierley-hill-shuttle-idea/
Long walk down a steep hill from vicarage road to corbetts hospital
Quote from: karl724223 on December 15, 2019, 04:46:59 PM
Long walk down a steep hill from vicarage road to corbetts hospital
Worse when you have to climb the hill after your appointment!
There are consultants currently investigating the Brierley Hill or Canal Street to Stourbridge Junction link on behalf of Transport for West Midlands and Dudley Council. I hope the two parties are talking to each other.
Quote from: Roy on December 15, 2019, 06:27:27 PM
There are consultants currently investigating the Brierley Hill or Canal Street to Stourbridge Junction link on behalf of Transport for West Midlands and Dudley Council. I hope the two parties are talking to each other.
Are they consulting on the same proposal, or on proposals to extend the Metro to Stourbridge?
Quote from: Stu on December 15, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
Are they consulting on the same proposal, or on proposals to extend the Metro to Stourbridge?
They are keeping an open mind on the mode of transport but want to link the Metro with Stourbridge Junction. One possibility is a Metro extension from Brierley Hill. Other modes being looked into are Metro, Tram-Train or heavy rail from Canal Street, and the most effective way of serving both Stourbridge Town and Stourbridge Junction is being investigated. As I said earlier, I just hope that Pre Metro Operations have input into the TfWM consultation as it would be self defeating if the two parties go their own ways.
To me, looking at the map, surely the service would run Stourbridge Town to Junction, then off towards Brierley Hill, so my questions about this would be
1. Would this route be viable given eg: that if you were travelling from Stourbridge Town to Corbett Hospital, surely a number 8 or 228 bus would be much quicker and the same to Brierley Hill with the 6.
2. The currently service on the Stourbridge branch is every 10 minutes, how could this be maintained?
3. Where will the platform space come from at Stourbridge Junction given the intensive service that operates?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 15, 2019, 11:09:46 PM
To me, looking at the map, surely the service would run Stourbridge Town to Junction, then off towards Brierley Hill, so my questions about this would be
1. Would this route be viable given eg: that if you were travelling from Stourbridge Town to Corbett Hospital, surely a number 8 or 228 bus would be much quicker and the same to Brierley Hill with the 6.
2. The currently service on the Stourbridge branch is every 10 minutes, how could this be maintained?
3. Where will the platform space come from at Stourbridge Junction given the intensive service that operates?
With the route proposed, the route would be used mostly by rail passengers changing at Stourbridge Junction. The service proposed by West Midlands Rail when they got the franchise was to extend the Stourbridge Junction terminators to Canal Street every 30 minutes. This bit the dust when Network Rail decided that to do this, platform 4 would need to be reinstated as a through platform and platform 3 turned into a dead end for the reversals! This, plus the associated signalling changes, sent the costs through the roof, especially as you would have needed to extend the subway out under the new line into a smaller car park.
The problem for PMOL is getting a light rail train from Stourbridge Junction station to Stourbridge North Junction as they would not be allowed on the main line. One possibility might be to route it around the back of the Chiltern depot. As far as platform space is concerned, it might be possible to split platform 1. The trackbed of the old siding alongside platform 1 (above the booking office) is still in situ and a second track could be laid there. If the southern end of platform 1 was extended out, you could in theory have two light rail services at the station at the same time.
The other thing I notice with the PMOL proposal is that they intend to use the old Brierley Hill station site for the Brierley Hill Town stop. I would suggest that Moor Street would be a better location as there is room for a large park and ride site on the land between the Dudley and Pensnett lines.
However, these are issues that need to be considered by PMOL and by TfWM/Dudley Council if they are going to come up with viable proposals to reopen the line and link the Metro to Stourbridge and Stourbridge Junction.
Surely you just could have a satalite platform where the signal box/one siding is and use the Brierley Hill trains on that. Have a second entrance on the site of the pub opposite the service road adjacent to the rail bridge which would have a TVM, a barrier line controlled by the ticket office and step free access to the Brierley hill platform (or even demolish part of the canopy on platform 1/2 and build a ramp over the track to access the new platform)
That would stop a conflict with the town shuttle.
Or, run the shuttle as is, with some permissive working and have alternate shuttles continue to Brierley Hill (and at the same time extend the amount of platform that can be used at the town end towards the buffers a bit more so slightly Longer units could be used!)
So passengers from Birmingham or Worcester would have to walk down through the subway, down the approach road, across Brook Road and back up the other side to change trains. I don't think that would be too popular. If you split platform 1, Town shuttle trains could be routed along the old siding road to an extended out platform 1 at the south end of the station, while Brierley Hill services would use the existing north end of platform 1 and leave the station alongside the Town shuttle before swinging off to the right. There would be no conflict between the two services.
Quote from: Roy on December 17, 2019, 10:51:32 AM
So passengers from Birmingham or Worcester would have to walk down through the subway, down the approach road, across Brook Road and back up the other side to change trains. I don't think that would be too popular. If you split platform 1, Town shuttle trains could be routed along the old siding road to an extended out platform 1 at the south end of the station, while Brierley Hill services would use the existing north end of platform 1 and leave the station alongside the Town shuttle before swinging off to the right. There would be no conflict between the two services.
Same layout as used by London Overground at Clapham Junction, works well
Quote from: Tony on December 17, 2019, 11:19:56 AM
Same layout as used by London Overground at Clapham Junction, works well
Have to agree with you there
@Tony when I worked in London I used to stay in Wandsworth and used Clapham Junction a lot and the layout worked very well given the numbers using it. I think when I used to use it, it was controlled by Network Rail and I am not sure if its TfL now. I think from the little I know of Sourbridge it would work well there.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 17, 2019, 11:40:18 AM
Have to agree with you there @Tony when I worked in London I used to stay in Wandsworth and used Clapham Junction a lot and the layout worked very well given the numbers using it. I think when I used to use it, it was controlled by Network Rail and I am not sure if its TfL now. I think from the little I know of Sourbridge it would work well there.
The Station itself is controlled by Network Rail, but platforms 1 and 2 are only used by London Overground.
Quote from: Tony on December 17, 2019, 11:56:47 AM
The Station itself is controlled by Network Rail, but platforms 1 and 2 are only used by London Overground.
Right I understand and from what I remember of it your are quite right the concept could work here.
Quote from: Roy on December 17, 2019, 10:18:31 AM
The problem for PMOL is getting a light rail train from Stourbridge Junction station to Stourbridge North Junction as they would not be allowed on the main line.
Forgive my ignorance as I'm no rail enthusiast or expert, but can I ask why that would be the case? In the E&S article it seems to suggest that Network Rail would be okay with this and are 'onboard and helpful' with regard to using the existing freight line.
Also the article suggests that the two services would operate seperately. Again I'm not completely familiar with Stourbridge Junction station as I haven't been there for years, but looking on Google Maps at the track layout, is there no reason why the new service can't use the same platform as the Town branch line? Obviously there would need to be some clever timetable planning to accomodate both services, but I imagine the service to Brierley Hill would likely be less frequent than the town shuttle.
I guess what's appealing about this proposal is the fact that it could be done 'relatively cheaply', using existing rail lines (no new track to lay down) and without having to make extensive changes at Stourbridge Junction station. The main costs of course would be those associated with building the new stations, but then again these 'mini-stations' wouldn't necessarily need to be fully featured, just a couple of short platforms with shelters and maybe self-serve ticket machines.
But then again, the big question is 'would people use it?', and this is the reason for the consultation.
As I understand it, Network Rail are happy for the line from Stourbridge North Junction to Round Oak to be operated as two separate bi-directional lines - one for passenger services and one for freight. However, the half mile from Stourbridge Junction station to North Junction is not bi-directional.
In addition, there is no link from platform 1 onto the main line. The line goes in front of the old signal box into the two sidings that used to be used as turnback sidings for Stourbridge terminators before the extra crossover was built to allow trains from Birmingham to go directly into platform 2. I don't think that passenger services are allowed to use these sidings at present as I can remember a steam special with 6024 King Edward I taking on water in the sidings and the passengers had to alight at Stourbridge Junction to allow the train to run empty into the sidings, fill up and then reverse back into the station.
Quote from: Roy on December 18, 2019, 07:23:03 PM
As I understand it, Network Rail are happy for the line from Stourbridge North Junction to Round Oak to be operated as two separate bi-directional lines - one for passenger services and one for freight. However, the half mile from Stourbridge Junction station to North Junction is not bi-directional.
In addition, there is no link from platform 1 onto the main line. The line goes in front of the old signal box into the two sidings that used to be used as turnback sidings for Stourbridge terminators before the extra crossover was built to allow trains from Birmingham to go directly into platform 2. I don't think that passenger services are allowed to use these sidings at present as I can remember a steam special with 6024 King Edward I taking on water in the sidings and the passengers had to alight at Stourbridge Junction to allow the train to run empty into the sidings, fill up and then reverse back into the station.
@Roy if i remember correctly, the sidings could be used for passenger traffic, but only if the points from the main line were clipped and scotched. This may have been why the steam special had to disembark passengers as it would be costly to get someone to just clip the points.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 18, 2019, 10:47:05 PM
@Roy if i remember correctly, the sidings could be used for passenger traffic, but only if the points from the main line were clipped and scotched. This may have been why the steam special had to disembark passengers as it would be costly to get someone to just clip the points.
Good point. However, it would mean that to get from platform 1 to the Brierley Hill line, improvements to the infrastructure would be needed. Network Rail has made it clear that platforms 2 and 3 could not be used for these services without major infrastructure changes.
Quote from: Roy on December 18, 2019, 07:23:03 PM
As I understand it, Network Rail are happy for the line from Stourbridge North Junction to Round Oak to be operated as two separate bi-directional lines - one for passenger services and one for freight. However, the half mile from Stourbridge Junction station to North Junction is not bi-directional.
In addition, there is no link from platform 1 onto the main line. The line goes in front of the old signal box into the two sidings that used to be used as turnback sidings for Stourbridge terminators before the extra crossover was built to allow trains from Birmingham to go directly into platform 2. I don't think that passenger services are allowed to use these sidings at present as I can remember a steam special with 6024 King Edward I taking on water in the sidings and the passengers had to alight at Stourbridge Junction to allow the train to run empty into the sidings, fill up and then reverse back into the station.
Thanks for that Roy, I was just going by what I could see looking down from Google Maps - it does look like there is a link from the branch line onto the mainline, but yes, it would have to go through those sidings.
So it's perhaps not as simple and straight-forward as it looks to be on the surface, unless Network Rail are really as 'onboard and sympathetic' as they say they are.