That's because they don't give a toss about the corridor.
Posts onwards split from Perry Barr garage thread - Stu
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 02, 2019, 12:40:47 AM
That's because they don't give a toss about the corridor.
True that. I still don't know why they don't upgrade the Lea Hall routes. The 97 is in the top three most popular routes in Birmingham (and the Midlands for that matter) and it's still rocking up with 15 year old tridents while the 50 which operates at a similar frequency gets new buses every 2-3 years.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 02, 2019, 10:52:36 AM
True that. I still don't know why they don't upgrade the Lea Hall routes. The 97 is in the top three most popular routes in Birmingham (and the Midlands for that matter) and it's still rocking up with 15 year old tridents while the 50 which operates at a similar frequency gets new buses every 2-3 years.
I agree and in other areas all the high frequency routes have new/newer buses, South and West Birmingham.
55/94 also combine to high frequency service as well, every 4 minutes.
Quote from: 2206 on November 02, 2019, 10:57:43 AM
I agree and in other areas all the high frequency routes have new/newer buses, South and West Birmingham.
55/94 also combine to high frequency service as well, every 4 minutes.
New buses recently have been put on routes where the council have agreed to do road improvements at the same time
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 02, 2019, 10:52:36 AM
True that. I still don't know why they don't upgrade the Lea Hall routes. The 97 is in the top three most popular routes in Birmingham (and the Midlands for that matter) and it's still rocking up with 15 year old tridents while the 50 which operates at a similar frequency gets new buses every 2-3 years.
The 50 & 4 (former 37) have had new buses typically every 4-5 years, certainly not every 2-3 years.
Quote from: Winston on November 02, 2019, 11:19:10 AM
The 50 & 4 (former 37) have had new buses typically every 4-5 years, certainly not every 2-3 years.
That's a lot more often than the lea hall routes, takes the Micheal any beyond.
Network West Midlands logo has been removed on the front of some buses.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 02, 2019, 01:48:04 PM
That's a lot more often than the lea hall routes, takes the Micheal any beyond.
There may well be a partnership agreement in place that dictates why that occurs or they're the most profitable / high growth routes.
As you don't use ex Lea Hall routes, I'm surprised you're constantly whining about the buses allocated too them....
Even Claribel's have cut back the frequency of their 94, so they can't be that lucrative.
Quote from: busboy31 on November 02, 2019, 02:45:39 PM
Network West Midlands logo has been removed on the front of some buses.
Being removed from the front of all buses
Presumbly as it's now 'West Midlands Network'.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 02, 2019, 10:52:36 AM
True that. I still don't know why they don't upgrade the Lea Hall routes. The 97 is in the top three most popular routes in Birmingham (and the Midlands for that matter) and it's still rocking up with 15 year old tridents while the 50 which operates at a similar frequency gets new buses every 2-3 years.
You clearly don't know how much it costs to buy a brand new bus. Or how to run a business.
There are plenty of other routes across the West Midlands area 'rocking up with 15 year old Tridents'.
It's all about getting the best return for your investment. Don't forget, these '15 year old Tridents' were once brand new buses for other routes, just as much as formerly 'brand new' buses for the 9 and 50 are now on the 11A/C.
The 97 will get its turn in due course, it is simply not viable for a company like NX Bus to replace its whole fleet with brand new vehicles every few years, not unless you'd be happy for bus fares to increase from £2.40 to £16. ;)
Quote from: Stu on November 02, 2019, 07:16:39 PM
You clearly don't know how much it costs to buy a brand new bus. Or how to run a business.
There are plenty of other routes across the West Midlands area 'rocking up with 15 year old Tridents'.
It's all about getting the best return for your investment. Don't forget, these '15 year old Tridents' were once brand new buses for other routes, just as much as formerly 'brand new' buses for the 9 and 50 are now on the 11A/C.
The 97 will get its turn in due course, it is simply not viable for a company like NX Bus to replace its whole fleet with brand new vehicles every few years, not unless you'd be happy for bus fares to increase from £2.40 to £16. ;)
Actually I do know how a business works and I am aware of how much new buses will cost.
Me and several members of the forum are just asking why NX continue to ignore the Lea Hall routes in terms of investment considering that there are some high profile routes on that side of Birmingham given that there has been two major changes to routes within the last 10 years.
Quote from: Stu on November 02, 2019, 07:16:39 PM
It's all about getting the best return for your investment. Don't forget, these '15 year old Tridents' were once brand new buses for other routes, just as much as formerly 'brand new' buses for the 9 and 50 are now on the 11A/C.
The 15 year old Tridents were new for the 94 in 2003. They moved onto the 97 around the time Lea Hall closed and replaced the Omnilinks which were new for the route. They were replaced on the 94 by older ALX400 B7TL at the time.
So the last time the 97 saw an upgrade was when the Omnilinks were new in 2007.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 02, 2019, 07:20:53 PM
Actually I do know how a business works and I am aware of how much new buses will cost.
Me and several members of the forum are just asking why NX continue to ignore the Lea Hall routes in terms of investment considering that there are some high profile routes on that side of Birmingham given that there has been two major changes to routes within the last 10 years.
There's a lot more than you realise though. If the council says "We will put a new bus lane in if you put new buses on route x' then the double improvement of new buses and a better journey will increase revenue more than just replacing buses on whichever route has the oldest.
I have a portfolio of accounts I look after and each year I am targeted to grow them all, if I ignored them in the same way nxbus ignore the east (sorry 94,97,55,14) I would be out of a job. The reason they can get away with it , they have a practical monopoly. It's clearly evident.
No, you just think it is funny to moan about things you don't use.
They are not 'ignored'
In the last 3 years every bus has had is getting(bordesley Scanias) a full internal refurbishment.
Express buses (X12/X70) have been introduced
Platinum buses (X12) has been introduced
Timetables & routes changed to try an counter traffic issues.
Incidently the following routes in other parts of Birmingham have not had new buses, but I don't see you complaining about them being ignored.
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 18, 33, 35, 45, 47, 49, 51, 52, 60, 63, 65, 66, 67; 74
Quote from: Tony on November 02, 2019, 07:53:19 PM
There's a lot more than you realise though. If the council says "We will put a new bus lane in if you put new buses on route x' then the double improvement of new buses and a better journey will increase revenue more than just replacing buses on whichever route has the oldest.
Is this why the 9 and the 50 are getting new buses every 5 years or so?
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
No, you just think it is funny to moan about things you don't use.
They are not 'ignored'
In the last 3 years every bus has had is getting(bordesley Scanias) a full internal refurbishment.
Express buses (X12/X70) have been introduced
Platinum buses (X12) has been introduced
Timetables & routes changed to try an counter traffic issues.
Incidently the following routes in other parts of Birmingham have not had new buses, but I don't see you complaining about them being ignored.
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 18, 33, 35, 45, 47, 49, 51, 52, 60, 63, 65, 66, 67; 74
The 2, 3 and/or the 35 could be using the new platinums on the 6 when the E400 City's arrive.
I was surprised when the WB platinums was given to the 82/87 instead of the 74. Then again, them two services have been given regular improvements to buses.
The 45/47/60 probably won't be given upgrades for a couple more years, particularly the 60 as it uses spare platinums pretty much everyday.
The 63 uses the hybrids alongside the 61 maybe you meant a different service
@Tony?
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 03, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
Is this why the 9 and the 50 are getting new buses every 5 years or so?
If you check you will see BCC are currently looking at putting more bus lanes in on Moseley Road
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
No, you just think it is funny to moan about things you don't use.
They are not 'ignored'
In the last 3 years every bus has had is getting(bordesley Scanias) a full internal refurbishment.
Express buses (X12/X70) have been introduced
Platinum buses (X12) has been introduced
Timetables & routes changed to try an counter traffic issues.
Incidently the following routes in other parts of Birmingham have not had new buses, but I don't see you complaining about them being ignored.
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 18, 33, 35, 45, 47, 49, 51, 52, 60, 63, 65, 66, 67; 74
Don't buy that as a % of the old lea hall area that's probably 10%. The same routes and areas get the investment period. The above examples could go on all day have had more investment than the the routes I'm on about.
The point I'm continually making is the fact distribution of resource is short scoped fact.
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
No, you just think it is funny to moan about things you don't use.
They are not 'ignored'
In the last 3 years every bus has had is getting(bordesley Scanias) a full internal refurbishment.
Express buses (X12/X70) have been introduced
Platinum buses (X12) has been introduced
Timetables & routes changed to try an counter traffic issues.
Incidently the following routes in other parts of Birmingham have not had new buses, but I don't see you complaining about them being ignored.
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 18, 33, 35, 45, 47, 49, 51, 52, 60, 63, 65, 66, 67; 74
X12 is only one service though and only 11 Platinums.
Very few compared to all the platinums operating in the same area of Birmingham on the, 9/X8/X10, 23/24, X20/X21/X22 and 82/87 all in West Birmingham.
There are routes in West Birmingham that haven't had new buses (48 and 1/1A) but it is disproportional, I think.
11 was upgraded last year with relatively new vehicles, so hasn't really been ignored. 63 also has newer Hybrids and 74 had an upgrade a few years back, so none of them have been ignored.
I'm not laughing there is nothing wrong with healthy debate especially when the one side is so .... how can I put it; (not prepared to see it from outside the box).
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 03, 2019, 01:16:50 PM
Don't buy that as a % of the old lea hall area that's probably 10%. The same routes and areas get the investment period. The above examples could go on all day have had more investment than the the routes I'm on about.
The point I'm continually making is the fact distribution of resource is short scoped fact.
I have to disagree with you there. Some of those routes on that list have had little investment.
The 1 hasn't received any upgrades since it had branded Presidents on it. All it had since then was Gemini's and Volvos. This was a route that used to go to town several years ago. The 2 & 3 have been using Tridents for as long as I can remember.
The 5 used Tridents during its time at YW then switched to Gemini's when it transferred to AG and now uses the oldest buses in the whole fleet.
The 67 got "upgraded" to Volvos when the bendy Scanias were withdrawn and are now using Gemini's or Enviro 400 which isn't too bad.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 03, 2019, 01:32:03 PM
I'm not laughing there is nothing wrong with healthy debate especially when the one side is so .... how can I put it; (not prepared to see it from outside the box).
Your comments are not constructed like a debate, it's just comes across as 'continual moaning' about ex LH routes, a handful of routes out of hundreds. Using your own argument the same can be said for limited group of services that receive regular new buses you put up as an argument each time i.e. 50, Harborne's, Hagley Road etc. If you're that concerned about NX supposedly neglecting the East B'ham routes, why don't you use your energy & take it up with the local councillors? It might get you further than continually moaning on here....
Incidentally 'looking outside of the box' as you put it, when was the last time the WB (5), WB (4,4H & 4M), the 4's particularly are a core Black Country route. My local routes WN 15 & 16 have only just been upgraded with 63 plate E400's ex WB, prior to that it has been solid Tridents Y-reg up to 54 plate for years....
What doesn't go in the 55's favour is that it's operated out of Bordesley, NX are not likely to be buying any new single decker's anytime soon as they already have too many, and Bordesley can't operate decker's. The 94 has recently had newer vehicles allocated to it.
When there's only 75 new Platinum's coming in, they will only go so far and allocated to the routes that will generate the best returns for their investment. Dundee & Coventry have only had their first Platinum spec buses in the past 12 months with cascades for a number of years prior, don't see that raised.
Quote from: Winston on November 03, 2019, 02:06:22 PM
What doesn't go in the 55's favour is that it's operated out of Bordesley, NX are not likely to be buying any new single decker's anytime soon as they already have too many, and Bordesley can't operate decker's. The 94 has recently had newer vehicles allocated to it.
They could swap it for deckers and send the 28 to Bordesley. Deckers would probably help the route at busy times as well.
The problem would probably be they'd have to find another route to allocate the Omnilinks to.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 02:10:54 PM
They could swap it for deckers and send the 28 to Bordesley. Deckers would probably help the route at busy times as well.
The problem would probably be they'd have to find another route to allocate the Omnilinks to.
You could probably send the 96 with the 28 to Bordesley to use the surplus Omnilinks.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 02:10:54 PM
They could swap it for deckers and send the 28 to Bordesley. Deckers would probably help the route at busy times as well.
The problem would probably be they'd have to find another route to allocate the Omnilinks to.
And where will these extra deckers come from? And where will the surplus Omnilinks go?
Quote from: Jack on November 03, 2019, 02:11:55 PM
You could probably send the 96 with the 28 to Bordesley to use the surplus Omnilinks.
How does that use the surplus Omnilinks? They are already operated by Omnilinks
I have a plan how to increase the double decks in the WM which will become clearer on Friday
I echo others in regards to buses not being cheap, to buy or run !
I seem to recall it being mentioned on here, that a bus costs upwards of £100'000 annually to run. Given the fact that the NXWM fleet consists of upwards of 1'500 buses, you begin to realize not everything can get it all. Frankly, I'm surprised a daysaver is as cheap as it is.
Funny how it's only Birmingham routes people mention. There are a number of busy/frequent and/or profitable routes in the Black Country that haven't had investment in many years... I don't see anyone mentioning or moaning about any of those routes. It would probably very much pay to put new vehicles on there, saying that, new buses can only stretch so far... especially when other factors come into play, as mentioned further up that see fleet renewal on routes like the 9 & 50 every few years.
Quote from: Nathan on November 03, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
new buses can only stretch so far... especially when other factors come into play, as mentioned further up that see fleet renewal on routes like the 9 & 50 every few years.
Don't see why there should be such a disproportion in where they invest though.
Not just new vehicles as well, there's no route branding on the 14, 55 and 94 routes either to promote the routes, unlike most other busy routes. Presumably they aren't interested in trying to promote these routes.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 07:01:03 PM
Don't see why there should be such a disproportion in where they invest though.
Not just new vehicles as well, there's no route branding on the 14, 55 and 94 routes either to promote the routes, unlike most other busy routes. Presumably they aren't interested in trying to promote these routes.
All 3 routes have had branding
Quote from: Nathan on November 03, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
Funny how it's only Birmingham routes people mention. There are a number of busy/frequent and/or profitable routes in the Black Country that haven't had investment in many years... I don't see anyone mentioning or moaning about any of those routes. It would probably very much pay to put new vehicles on there, saying that, new buses can only stretch so far... especially when other factors come into play, as mentioned further up that see fleet renewal on routes like the 9 & 50 every few years.
Thank you for a bit of balance there. I have had comments in the past on my WMBU Facebook page and website from people complaining about seeming 'lack of investment' in new buses for popular services in the Wolverhampton and Black Country areas. The comments have always been along the lines of "it's always Birmingham that gets the new buses" etc.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 07:01:03 PM
Don't see why there should be such a disproportion in where they invest though.
Not just new vehicles as well, there's no route branding on the 14, 55 and 94 routes either to promote the routes, unlike most other busy routes. Presumably they aren't interested in trying to promote these routes.
I'm not sure about the 94, but both the 14 and 55 have been branded in the past. Perhaps the 14 and 55 are busy enough to not warrant further promotion, or perhaps the previous route brandings did not achieve the intended passenger growth?
Those are of course questions that only NX Bus can answer. You're just falling into this perception created by monkeyjoe that NX Bus 'don't give a toss' about this area of Birmingham. There are several bus services, many people use them and are happy with them, I'm not sure what the big issue is to be honest.
For most passengers, it makes no difference if a 15 year old bus, or a brand new bus turns up, they just want a bus to turn up that will take them where they want to go.
@Stu - Though not as recent in comparison to the 14/55, the 94 did have branding when the Tridents were new to Lea Hall
see: http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/4225-4474/4471.html
Even before then, I believe a few O405Ns were branded brown for the route! ;)
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 07:33:35 PM
All 3 routes have had branding
Years ago though.
The 55 branding was 5 years ago and all the 55 route branding ever referred to was the Claribels service: "we run evenings, sundays and early mornings, others don't". Rather than any specific information about the route.
Quote from: Stu on November 03, 2019, 07:35:30 PM
Perhaps the 14 and 55 are busy enough to not warrant further promotion, or
Doubt it otherwise surely the 11, X1, 33 and 23 wouldn't warrant further promotion either, as they are already busy services.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 07:44:53 PM
Years ago though.
The 55 branding was 5 years ago and all the 55 route branding ever referred to was the Claribels service: "we run evenings, sundays and early mornings, others don't Rather than any specific information about the route.Doubt it otherwise surely the 11, X1 and 33 wouldn't warrant further promotion either, as they are already busy services.
You can't really upgrade the 33 without upgrading the 51... which won't happen for a while with the 51 buses being rebranded not long ago, well they haven't completed branding all of them, instead they plaster them in Mega Rear AD's. And if they ever get an improved frequency, not sure how long it will take for them to do it.
It annoys me when people talk about 'Black Country having no investment' yet they have had brand new E200's delivered in 2012 and 2014, Hybrids in 2013, Platinums in 2015/2016/2019 etc. Granted the majority of Black Country routes don't get as much investment but purely I think that is because of the areas not having a LEZ that keeps increasing every couple of years like Birmingham.
The 14, 55, 60, 94, 97 are way over due an upgrade in my opinion.
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 07:44:53 PM
Years ago though.
The 55 branding was 5 years ago and all the 55 route branding ever referred to was the Claribels service: "we run evenings, sundays and early mornings, others don't". Rather than any specific information about the route.
And where's the Claribel's 55 service now, other than a few peak journeys, it's gone., same with the 71e. Their 94 is heading the same way, the recent frequency cuts will be the start of a downward spiral....
One of the things I have to do when I do cascades is to average out the fleet age so all garages are very similar. No area is ignored
The 49 buses allocated to Bordesley are a special case as they are not maintained by NXWM, but under contract by MAN and on specific fleetnumbers, so there is no movement there (1876 & 1877 are actually allocated to BC.
The assetts (Therefore the investment) in the other 9 garages are all very similar. No area is ignored
Allocations to routes is also affected at the moment by emission rules. Currently just over 50% of the fleet is certified Euro 6 (The Green Urban traps fitted to Tridents and B7TLs are not certified Euro 6 as Green Urban lost their DfT certification) And as different restrictions and aims apply in different areas vehicles have to match.
NXWM does aim to be 100% fully certified Euro 6 in about 18 months time so all the areas with old buses will be getting more investment
Birmingham has to have the investment, because of the emission zone.
I understand that.
Are there more emission zones planned?
Presumbly if Wolves has a emission zone coming up for example, suitable buses will be moved into there & unsuitable buses will be moved out.
Do the bus operators have an input into dates when zones are active?
Quote from: Westy on November 03, 2019, 08:14:46 PM
Birmingham has to have the investment, because of the emission zone.
I understand that.
Are there more emission zones planned?
Presumbly if Wolves has a emission zone coming up for example, suitable buses will be moved into there & unsuitable buses will be moved out.
Do the bus operators have an input into dates when zones are active?
The whole West Midlands is affected by emission zones, and as I said above NXWM aims to be 100% Euro 6, so there's no problem with allocation rolling forward. I don't know of any other large company aiming to be euro 6 as early as NX
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 08:06:51 PM
One of the things I have to do when I do cascades is to average out the fleet age so all garages are very similar. No area is ignored
Though since Lea Hall closed, the only NX garage in the East of Birmingham is Bordesley. And most East Birmingham routes are now at various garages:
PB - 96, 71, 94 and 28.
AG - 72, X12 and 11A/C
BY - 55 and 17.
BC - 97 and 14.
Probably explains the "lack of investment in the East Birmingham area".
And for example at BC all the newer vehicles are allocated to South and West Birmingham routes, while the East Birmingham routes have the Tridents.
I wasn't aware of the emissions affected the whole of the west midlands I know Brum , Solihull & Wolverhampton have emissions zone when will walsall+ west Bromwich emissions zones take place
Quote from: 2206 on November 03, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
Though since Lea Hall closed, the only NX garage in the East of Birmingham is Bordesley. And most East Birmingham routes are now at various garages:
PB - 96, 71, 94 and 28.
AG - 72, X12 and 11A/C
BY - 55 and 17.
BC - 97 and 14.
Probably explains the "lack of investment in the East Birmingham area".
And for example at BC all the newer vehicles are allocated to South and West Birmingham routes, while the East Birmingham routes have the Tridents.
You have been taken in by the 'Monkeyjoe' crap haven't you
One of the routes you list is platinum
One of the routes you list has had brand new buses (72) which unfortunately did such a good job in increasing passengers that they had to be replaced by old double decks on an increased frequency all refurbished and traps so not 'lacking investments'
The 11 has just had 38 nearly new buses moved to it
The 55 and 17 buses are just having around £30,000 spent on each bus to modify them to Euro 6 (1795 is at Graysons) and fully refurbish the interiors and exterior...is that not investment?
Really, in this climate emergency, bus operators who operate mainly in urban areas should really, in my opinion, be aiming to consider starting to go Diesel free. Be it through CNG, electric or other fuel methods.
Even if it means the government/combined authorities slapping a 10-20p tax per passenger journey in order to fund infrastructure (such as shared charging facilities, hydrogen/CNG facilities or similar) and incentives to smaller operators to put this in place (either via new buses or getting existing fleets converted).
Local Authorities could then consider banning Diesel and Petrol powered vehicles from their town centres with increased funding from Westminster and funding from Brussels being used to fund things such as electric rail conversions/openings and park and ride schemes.
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 08:06:51 PM
Allocations to routes is also affected at the moment by emission rules. Currently just over 50% of the fleet is certified Euro 6 (The Green Urban traps fitted to Tridents and B7TLs are not certified Euro 6 as Green Urban lost their DfT certification) And as different restrictions and aims apply in different areas vehicles have to match.
NXWM does aim to be 100% fully certified Euro 6 in about 18 months time so all the areas with old buses will be getting more investment
Interesting - presumably the Green Urban issue has changed plans as I think you quoted end of March 2020 previously as being Euro 6 compliant (I think TfWM also quoted it).
I don't think anyone can deny that investment decisions have focussed on certain groups of routes over the last decade or so, or that certain routes have not had new vehicles in a long time. I guess it is one of the issues of balance running and growing commercial services, trying to get the best return for investment, meeting local political imperatives, environmental requirements, and engineering needs.
However it is interesting to see the garage allocation decisions for instance for the fireworks services in another thread - clearly Coventry thought the people visiting Kenilworth deserved virtually new vehicles whereas those visiting Himley mostly got 17 or 18 yr old vehicles!! All that said the 94 seems to be reported with much newer vehicles sometimes than has been the case (some platinums and 09 E400s - the Geminis are getting on a bit though).
I, for one, am sick to the back teeth of the constant whining about investment, as it's been previously stated, if you're that unhappy with the "lack of investment" - ignoring the euro 6 traps retrofitted onto the Gemini's, cascaded 48** Enviros, occasional platinum allocations onto the 94, branding of 4 year old MMCs for the Outer Circle and X12 & X70 platinum routes (which serve Castle Bromwich by the way) - then take it up with NXWM or your local council.
If ex Lea Hall services have been so neglected, why haven't the competition wiped the floor with NXWM?...
Oh wait...
Quote from: Kevin on November 04, 2019, 07:39:51 AM
If ex Lea Hall services have been so neglected, why haven't the competition wiped the floor with NXWM?...
Oh wait...
Yes, competition against the 15 year old tridents on the 97 went well didn't it?
Quote from: Tony on November 04, 2019, 08:01:18 AM
Yes, competition against the 15 year old tridents on the 97 went well didn't it?
Same with competition on the 55, 71E & now reduced 94 - tendered work is deemed more lucrative.
Quote from: don on November 03, 2019, 09:58:19 PM
Interesting - presumably the Green Urban issue has changed plans as I think you quoted end of March 2020 previously as being Euro 6 compliant (I think TfWM also quoted it).
I don't think anyone can deny that investment decisions have focussed on certain groups of routes over the last decade or so, or that certain routes have not had new vehicles in a long time. I guess it is one of the issues of balance running and growing commercial services, trying to get the best return for investment, meeting local political imperatives, environmental requirements, and engineering needs.
However it is interesting to see the garage allocation decisions for instance for the fireworks services in another thread - clearly Coventry thought the people visiting Kenilworth deserved virtually new vehicles whereas those visiting Himley mostly got 17 or 18 yr old vehicles!! All that said the 94 seems to be reported with much newer vehicles sometimes than has been the case (some platinums and 09 E400s - the Geminis are getting on a bit though).
You should have seen the state the himley shuttle buses were in on return to garage floors caked in mud, so why bother putting on the newest buses. potential hazard risk IMO
Quote from: Kevin on November 04, 2019, 07:39:51 AM
If ex Lea Hall services have been so neglected, why haven't the competition wiped the floor with NXWM?...
Oh wait...
Look at the routes that Diamond tried to compete with. The 17 and the 97 are the most frequent routes in that part of Birmingham and the buses they used wasn't really up to spec with the NX ones. Then again, NX has a massive stronghold on the West Midlands, the competition isn't strong enough. I wish we had one of the "Big Three" operators operating in Birmingham, that would probably make NX a decent company
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 10:43:02 AM
Look at the routes that Diamond tried to compete with. The 17 and the 97 are the most frequent routes in that part of Birmingham and the buses they used wasn't really up to spec with the NX ones. Then again, NX has a massive stronghold on the West Midlands, the competition isn't strong enough. I wish we had one of the "Big Three" operators operating in Birmingham, that would probably make NX a decent company
Most of the 'big 3' as you call them as well as Go-Ahead (incidently NX are bigger than all of them) have tried to compete and failed.
Arriva have had 3 garages in the West Midlands and closed all 3
Go-Ahead previosuly owned Diamond and made huge losses and sold it to Rotala
Stagecoach had a garage in Coventry which closed and the routes stopped.
Midland Red West (pre-First) operated in Birmingham and had to give up.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 10:43:02 AM
Look at the routes that Diamond tried to compete with. The 17 and the 97 are the most frequent routes in that part of Birmingham and the buses they used wasn't really up to spec with the NX ones. Then again, NX has a massive stronghold on the West Midlands, the competition isn't strong enough. I wish we had one of the "Big Three" operators operating in Birmingham, that would probably make NX a decent company
Who are the "Big Three" operators you mention? Surely NXWM is arguably the largest so would that make it 2 more?
NXWM ARE a decent company, in terms of fleet and working conditions. Their fleet investment is unrivaled in the West Midlands and their "stronghold" is down to mass investment, years of acquisitions in areas and being able to grow, sometimes very unprofitable, routes and compete with smaller companies using buses nearly over 20 years older.
If you look at the Traffic Commissioners weekly updates, you will see swathes of small operators who rock up with a couple of old Darts and think they can offer passengers something different and "compete" with NXWM - truth is, they are using a couple of old buses to slash operating costs, make a fast buck then disappear as quickly as they appeared in the first place.
Think back to the bus wars of the 90s where so-called competition was rife and you'll see a fleet of ageing Leyland Nationals with no refurbishment or investment, in any old livery trundling up and down routes carrying next to nothing. Nowadays, NXWM have learned from their mistakes and have carefully crafted strategic investment onto key routes and DO place newer buses onto routes that need and deserve them. Just because some of their buses may be 56-63 plates doesn't mean that they haven't been subject to a mass refurb plan to bring them up to a standard that is both environmentally and commercially acceptable.
And before anyone asks, I' don't work for them but would be proud to do so............and also be very careful what you wish for.
Quote from: Tony on November 04, 2019, 10:50:39 AM
Most of the 'big 3' as you call them as well as Go-Ahead (incidently NX are bigger than all of them) have tried to compete and failed.
Arriva have had 3 garages in the West Midlands and closed all 3
Go-Ahead previosuly owned Diamond and made huge losses and sold it to Rotala
Stagecoach had a garage in Coventry which closed and the routes stopped.
Midland Red West (pre-First) operated in Birmingham and had to give up.
Arriva has 3 garages in the West Midlands? I know about Wednesfield and Hill Top but what was the other one?
@Wumpty In terms of the "Big Three" operators, I meant First, Stagecoach and Arriva.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 12:14:22 PM
Arriva has 3 garages in the West Midlands? I know about Wednesfield and Hill Top but what was the other one?
@Wumpty In terms of the "Big Three" operators, I meant First, Stagecoach and Arriva.
Midland Red North set up in Walsall at Dereg.
So where do NX come if they are your big 3?
National Express is valued at approximately 3 time the value of Stagecoach
Quote from: Tony on November 04, 2019, 12:39:14 PM
Midland Red North set up in Walsall at Dereg.
So where do NX come if they are your big 3?
National Express is valued at approximately 3 time the value of Stagecoach
When I mean by big it's the regions that they serve. NXWM is pretty self-explanatory but First, Stagecoach and Arriva are found almost everywhere in the UK.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 01:34:10 PM
When I mean by big it's the regions that they serve. NXWM is pretty self-explanatory but First, Stagecoach and Arriva are found almost everywhere in the UK.
And you don't see National Express everywhere in the UK?
If you think the others are found almost everywhere in the UK try looking for an Arriva bus in Scotland, or a First Bus in London and the South East
Quote from: Tony on November 04, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
And you don't see National Express everywhere in the UK?
If you think the others are found almost everywhere in the UK try looking for an Arriva bus in Scotland, or a First Bus in London and the South East
That's what I meant by almost everywhere
@Tony. I know about the First London demise having being from London. I didn't know about Arriva not being in Scotland but hey, the more you know.
And National Express has to go everywhere in the UK, it's a coach service or else the National bit would look a bit silly.
Quote from: Tony on November 03, 2019, 08:36:06 PM
The 55 and 17 buses are just having around £30,000 spent on each bus to modify them to Euro 6 (1795 is at Graysons) and fully refurbish the interiors and exterior...is that not investment?
Caught 1799 on the 55 this evening, the bus was rammed and was struggling to cope with passenger numbers. Can't see how anyone can consider that as "investing in the corridor". Left City Centre around 16:00.
And yet they were meant to 'upgrade' the X70 with 6945-6950 which were delivered brand new for it and yet they just got chucked on to the other Platinum routes, and why exactly was 7515-7517 new to BC? As more spares... the X70 is just neglected in my opinion, no decent upgrade after it went to limited stop, E400's was hardly an investment... shows how much NX don't care about East Birmingham services...
Quote from: 2206 on November 04, 2019, 04:57:31 PM
Caught 1799 on the 55 this evening, the bus was rammed and was struggling to cope with passenger numbers. Can't see how anyone can consider that as "investing in the corridor". Left City Centre around 16:00.
And people have said the same about the X20/X21/X22 and the 23/24 on here when gaps in service appear and they have new buses. That has nothing to do with the point in question
Quote from: Tony on November 04, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
And people have said the same about the X20/X21/X22 and the 23/24 on here when gaps in service appear and they have new buses. That has nothing to do with the point in question
Can NX do something about it? I mean the 17 and the 55 suffer from overcrowding and desperately need double deckers. The problems with that are that the 17 goes through a low bridge at Tile Cross and the 55 will need to swap with another route in order to get double deckers on it.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 05:42:41 PM
Can NX do something about it? I mean the 17 and the 55 suffer from overcrowding and desperately need double deckers. The problems with that are that the 17 goes through a low bridge at Tile Cross and the 55 will need to swap with another route in order to get double deckers on it.
The frequency for the 55 and 94 combine to make a 4 minute frequency. I can't see how that's not good enough to be honest.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 04, 2019, 05:51:17 PM
The frequency for the 55 and 94 combine to make a 4 minute frequency. I can't see how that's not good enough to be honest.
Doesn't mean overcrowding never happens though. The reason they combine to every 4 minutes, is its a very busy corridor
@Trident 4194.
There are also a few people who travel from City Centre beyond Fox & Goose on that route as well, who don't have as high a frequency as well. Even though it isn't as busy.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 04, 2019, 05:42:41 PM
Can NX do something about it? I mean the 17 and the 55 suffer from overcrowding and desperately need double deckers. The problems with that are that the 17 goes through a low bridge at Tile Cross and the 55 will need to swap with another route in order to get double deckers on it.
I agree, its a regular occurrence to see overcrowding on the 55, wouldn't happen with deckers (I don't see overcrowding on the 94's).
Quote from: 2206 on November 04, 2019, 06:26:11 PM
Doesn't mean overcrowding never happens though. The reason they combine to every 4 minutes, is its a very busy corridor @Trident 4194.
There are also some people people who travel from City Centre beyond Fox & Goose on that route as well, who don't have as high a frequency as well. I agree, its a regular occurrence to see overcrowding on the 55, wouldn't happen with deckers (You never see overcrowding on the 94's).
As the vast majority of the passengers are off before the Hunters Moon on both services your arguement seems a little flawed