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West Midlands Buses in Discussion => General Discussion, Questions & Route Suggestions => Topic started by: 2206 on October 24, 2017, 10:29:33 AM

Title: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 24, 2017, 10:29:33 AM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/new-fleet-500000-zero-emission-13800364
New Hydrogen fuelled buses set to be on the road and in service for March 2019.
A new refuelling facility at Tyseley Energy Park.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on October 24, 2017, 02:03:50 PM
Okay so there's 22 buses and they'll be based at Tyseley Energy Park. So it's the 37 basically?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: monkeyjoe on October 26, 2017, 10:18:59 PM
I thought they haven't sad which operator it will be yet
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on October 26, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on October 26, 2017, 10:18:59 PM
I thought they haven't sad which operator it will be yet

Who else has a route with a PVR of around 19-20ish?

Has it said whether it'll be one route or spread across a few? It's probably one route. My money's on the 37.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on October 26, 2017, 10:49:41 PM
Quote from: MW on October 26, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
Who else has a route with a PVR of around 19-20ish?

Has it said whether it'll be one route or spread across a few? It's probably one route. My money's on the 37.
Why the 37? The buses on it are fine and nice. Probably some of the best Single Decks in service. If they did get put on the 37 then put throw them on the 6 too.
I don't see why they couldn't do the 82/87 or the Pershore Road.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 26, 2017, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: Jack on October 26, 2017, 10:49:41 PM
Why the 37? The buses on it are fine and nice. Probably some of the best Single Decks in service. If they did get put on the 37 then put throw them on the 6 too.
I don't see why they couldn't do the 82/87 or the Pershore Road.
There are only 22, not enough for both the 6 and 37.
Is the 82/87 PVR 22 or less. I don't think it is? They don't operate anywhere near Tyesley as well.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Mike K on October 26, 2017, 11:17:27 PM
Quote from: Jack on October 26, 2017, 10:49:41 PM
Why the 37? The buses on it are fine and nice. Probably some of the best Single Decks in service. If they did get put on the 37 then put throw them on the 6 too.
I don't see why they couldn't do the 82/87 or the Pershore Road.

The article also mentions that they will be part funded by the Greater Birmingham and Solihull Local Enterprise Partnership, which doesn't cover Sandwell and Dudley, so I can't imagine they'd be for the 82/87. As already stated, with the refuelling depot in Tyseley, which is along the 37 route, the 37 seems the most logical explanation.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: monkeyjoe on October 27, 2017, 07:20:09 PM
To be fair it's been a while the 37 having an upgrade lol
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stu on October 27, 2017, 08:04:42 PM
I'm not quite sure why people have jumped to the conclusion that these will be for the 37.

QuoteCity council bosses are set to approve the pilot project to buy 22 new zero-emission buses, costing £500,000 each, to run on key routes throughout the city....

...The cost of the buses will come from the Office for Low Emission Vehicles (£1,474,000), the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (£4,080,800), the Greater Birmingham and Solihull Local Enterprise Partnership (£2,156,000) and the yet to be appointed bus operator will make up the rest through a lease agreement. The city council is running the pilot project.

I know that most press releases out of TfWM can be a bit thinly veiled at the best of times, but I think its a bit early to be prematurely assuming that NXWM will be operating these. For all we know, even though they will be based in Tyseley, it could be a combination of operators operating a few each, or even someone like Diamond using them on the 16 and 50 services for example.

I guess we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 29, 2017, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 27, 2017, 08:04:42 PM
I'm not quite sure why people have jumped to the conclusion that these will be for the 37.

I know that most press releases out of TfWM can be a bit thinly veiled at the best of times, but I think its a bit early to be prematurely assuming that NXWM will be operating these. For all we know, even though they will be based in Tyseley, it could be a combination of operators operating a few each, or even someone like Diamond using them on the 16 and 50 services for example.

I guess we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

Think the key wording in the press release is "routes", I would suggest that a number of routes will get the buses so that areas throughout Birmingham will benefit.

I know it probably wouldn't happen in Birmingham, but in London, the Hydrogen buses on the RV1 couldn't operate during the Olympics because the refuelling point was to close to the Olympic Stadium and there were security concerns.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 29, 2017, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 29, 2017, 09:15:21 PM
Think the key wording in the press release is "routes", I would suggest that a number of routes will get the buses so that areas throughout Birmingham will benefit.

I know it probably wouldn't happen in Birmingham, but in London, the Hydrogen buses on the RV1 couldn't operate during the Olympics because the refuelling point was to close to the Olympic Stadium and there were security concerns.
They're not really going be able to upgrade a number of routes throughout Birmingham with just 22 buses.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 29, 2017, 11:32:25 PM
They're not really going be able to upgrade a number of routes throughout Birmingham with just 22 buses.

Not fully upgrade no, but do you want a route with all Hydrogen buses.

Lets say for example the 37 was fully upgraded and suddenly there is a problem, for example in 2011 the London Hydrogen buses were taken off the road due to a fire. would NE be able to find 22 spare buses without other services suffering. Thankfully the fire on the London ones was nothing to do with the Hydrogen part of the buses and at that time only 5 were in service, so they were able to cover them with normal buses.

So my gut feeling is, it will be several routes with a few buses on each.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: suavegarv on October 30, 2017, 04:29:24 PM
Interested operators will have to submit a tender. The bus operators will have to contribute a minimum cost of £149,510 per vehicle.This minimum contribution is based on the cost of a new EuroVI compliant bus.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: suavegarv on October 30, 2017, 04:29:24 PM
Interested operators will have to submit a tender. The bus operators will have to contribute a minimum cost of £149,510 per vehicle.This minimum contribution is based on the cost of a new EuroVI compliant bus.

In that case, can't see many operators taking up the option myself, even Diamond, would they be able to afford it?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Isle of Stroma on October 30, 2017, 07:03:51 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 27, 2017, 08:04:42 PM
I'm not quite sure why people have jumped to the conclusion that these will be for the 37.

I know that most press releases out of TfWM can be a bit thinly veiled at the best of times, but I think its a bit early to be prematurely assuming that NXWM will be operating these. For all we know, even though they will be based in Tyseley, it could be a combination of operators operating a few each, or even someone like Diamond using them on the 16 and 50 services for example.

I guess we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

Tyseley. Acocks Green's a stones throw away but I suppose it would be more handy for Tividale/Kidderminster/Redditch.....

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 01:24:40 PM
Not fully upgrade no, but do you want a route with all Hydrogen buses.

Lets say for example the 37 was fully upgraded and suddenly there is a problem, for example in 2011 the London Hydrogen buses were taken off the road due to a fire. would NE be able to find 22 spare buses without other services suffering.

Easily.

Quote from: suavegarv on October 30, 2017, 04:29:24 PM
Interested operators will have to submit a tender. The bus operators will have to contribute a minimum cost of £149,510 per vehicle.This minimum contribution is based on the cost of a new EuroVI compliant bus.

Last time I looked at the maths, the operator was expected to stump up about £6m+, so considerably more than £150k per show pony bus
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Have to say I don't really understand any of this from an operators point of view.

Why would you want to put up the amount of money that a new Euro VI would cost, why not go out and buy one and the bus is yours anyway. If the fueling point is to be used by various operators, then unless you use it as an outstation, then it is going to increase mileage, driver hours etc.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on October 30, 2017, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Have to say I don't really understand any of this from an operators point of view.

Why would you want to put up the amount of money that a new Euro VI would cost, why not go out and buy one and the bus is yours anyway. If the fueling point is to be used by various operators, then unless you use it as an outstation, then it is going to increase mileage, driver hours etc.

With the threat that some cities are making, like London and Oxford where only zero emission at source vehicles will be allowed into city centres it make sense to start getting used to new technologies
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 08:34:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 30, 2017, 07:35:43 PM
With the threat that some cities are making, like London and Oxford where only zero emission at source vehicles will be allowed into city centres it make sense to start getting used to new technologies

While i agree with that @Tony , I would be interested to hear how the mpg compare with a normal Hybrid bus. Plus isn't Hydrogen more expensive that Diesel, in that case wouldn't it be better to go down the electric bus route.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Kevin on October 30, 2017, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 30, 2017, 08:34:35 PM
While i agree with that @Tony , I would be interested to hear how the mpg compare with a normal Hybrid bus. Plus isn't Hydrogen more expensive that Diesel, in that case wouldn't it be better to go down the electric bus route.

Hydrogen is only more expensive at the moment because production of it is still being developed. At Uni my department had a few hydrogen cars to show off how much they could produce on a small experimental basis - I imagine in the 7 years since that production has developed further and bigger projects that make more use of hydrogen like this are now feasible
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: suavegarv on November 01, 2017, 08:05:54 PM
When the gas buses were in operation from Walsall a few years back, were running costs reasonable or high? Was expense a factor in why they eventually became diesel only?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Walsall1955 on November 17, 2017, 06:50:57 PM
Passenger Transport (edition 17 November 2017) at page 19 reports that National Express West Midlands has provided an amount of funding and will operate the 22 buses.
Figures quoted are:
Scheme cost £13.4 m
£1.5m OLEV grant
£4.0m Fuel Cells + Hydrogen Joint Undertaking funding
£2.2m GreaterBrirmingham and Solhull PEP funding
and "The remainder of the funding will come from National Express West Midlands".
Refuelling site at Tyseley Energy Park to open in September 2018.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 17, 2017, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: Walsall1955 on November 17, 2017, 06:50:57 PM
Passenger Transport (edition 17 November 2017) at page 19 reports that National Express West Midlands has provided an amount of funding and will operate the 22 buses.
Figures quoted are:
Scheme cost £13.4 m
£1.5m OLEV grant
£4.0m Fuel Cells + Hydrogen Joint Undertaking funding
£2.2m GreaterBrirmingham and Solhull PEP funding
and "The remainder of the funding will come from National Express West Midlands".
Refuelling site at Tyseley Energy Park to open in September 2018.

So where are the MMCs from the 37 going? Let's begin the speculation... 😂
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on November 17, 2017, 09:12:57 PM
Quote from: MW on November 17, 2017, 09:08:59 PM
So where are the MMCs from the 37 going? Let's begin the speculation... 😂
Who said the E200 MMC's were leaving the 37? They better not be! 😂😂
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 17, 2017, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 17, 2017, 09:12:57 PM
Who said the E200 MMC's were leaving the 37? They better not be! 😂😂

Lolllll come on. Birmingham & Solihull funding and an outstation in Tyseley, and 22 buses. Something is gonna get converted to single deck with those cascades as no single deckers are due replacement. Maybe replace the Scanias at YW with some left over to go towards the 2/3? Or maybe replace ALX400s on the 1. Hmmmmmm...
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: DJ on November 17, 2017, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: MW on November 17, 2017, 09:46:29 PM
Lolllll come on. Birmingham & Solihull funding and an outstation in Tyseley, and 22 buses. Something is gonna get converted to single deck with those cascades as no single deckers are due replacement. Maybe replace the Scanias at YW with some left over to go towards the 2/3? Or maybe replace ALX400s on the 1. Hmmmmmm...

I'm pretty sure the B7RLE's at Walsall are the oldest single deckers, but even they aren't due replacement for a while. With the possibility of some routes being split in the next Dudley review, perhaps single deckers could be adequate for something like the 74 just between Dudley and West Bromwich.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on November 17, 2017, 10:17:37 PM
Quote from: MW on November 17, 2017, 09:46:29 PM
Lolllll come on. Birmingham & Solihull funding and an outstation in Tyseley, and 22 buses. Something is gonna get converted to single deck with those cascades as no single deckers are due replacement. Maybe replace the Scanias at YW with some left over to go towards the 2/3? Or maybe replace ALX400s on the 1. Hmmmmmm...
The 72? I would never make the 2/3 or 5/31 SD. They are suppose to be Deckers to help the 6/37 with their Single Deckers. There is some tight turns on the 2 in an Omnilink, especially on Daisy Farm Road. I think the 72 and put the spares are onto the 73, especially next July when Solihull becoming Euro 4, it's mainly ALX400's with the odd Gemini, mainly E200 MMC on Saturdays.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Sh4318 on November 17, 2017, 10:43:33 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 17, 2017, 10:17:37 PM
The 72? I would never make the 2/3 or 5/31 SD. They are suppose to be Deckers to help the 6/37 with their Single Deckers. There is some tight turns on the 2 in an Omnilink, especially on Daisy Farm Road. I think the 72 and put the spares are onto the 73, especially next July when Solihull becoming Euro 4, it's mainly ALX400's with the odd Gemini, mainly E200 MMC on Saturdays.

Replace double deckers on a frequent route with single deckers?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on November 17, 2017, 10:49:43 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 17, 2017, 10:43:33 PM
Replace double deckers on a frequent route with single deckers?
The 72 coped fine with SD and still does now when they are on it which is common. It being a frequent route means it leaves the Stop pretty much with a decent loading. Though people can argue that Sunny travel sit at the stand in Solihull for some time, meaning passengers can just jump onto that.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Sh4318 on November 17, 2017, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 17, 2017, 10:49:43 PM
The 72 coped fine with SD and still does now when they are on it which is common. It being a frequent route means it leaves the Stop pretty much with a decent loading. Though people can argue that Sunny travel sit at the stand in Solihull for some time, meaning passengers can just jump onto that.

If that's the case, then why are double deckers now used?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: GeminiFan1991 on November 18, 2017, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 17, 2017, 11:25:02 PM
If that's the case, then why are double deckers now used?

At a glance, many E200MMCs have left AG for YW so that means less can be used for the 72 even though it's been shortened, the replacements have been deckers so your're more likely to see a decker on the route. Last time I rode a 72, it got decent loadings so I suppose when in doubt, send a decker !
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 18, 2017, 01:00:05 AM
The reason the 72 is operated by deckers is because the 71 no longer runs between Solihull & Chelmsley.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on November 18, 2017, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: MW on November 18, 2017, 01:00:05 AM
The reason the 72 is operated by deckers is because the 71 no longer runs between Solihull & Chelmsley.
Not forgetting how many Deckers they gained a few months ago.
If it was busy, then I doubt they'd keep putting the E200 MMC's on.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack6101 on November 18, 2017, 09:28:08 AM
Maybe because that's the only buses that was available ??
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 18, 2017, 01:34:44 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 18, 2017, 09:14:18 AM
Not forgetting how many Deckers they gained a few months ago.
If it was busy, then I doubt they'd keep putting the E200 MMC's on.

There's probably one or two MMCs on there when there's a PVR of about 12-14 (at a guess).

The 71/72 was busy between Solihull and Chelmsley Wood. Why do you think you've got these Mickey Mouse companies trying to compete. There's obviously a market.

The E200MMCs end up on all AG routes. The rare ones are the 11 & X12. Everything else gets them whether it's occasional or full time. Maybe they'd rather put an MMC out instead of an ALX400.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on November 18, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: MW on November 18, 2017, 01:00:05 AM
The reason the 72 is operated by deckers is because the 71 no longer runs between Solihull & Chelmsley.
No.
The 72 had a frequency increase to every 8 minutes when the 71 was cut and it now operates aling a single route.
It still operates at the same frequency today as when the 71 was operating into Solihull.
So no the deckers on there are not on there to replace the 71.

Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 18, 2017, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: 2206 on November 18, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
No.
The 72 had a frequency increase to every 8 minutes when the 71 was cut.
It still operates at the same frequency today as when the 71 was operating into Solihull.
So no the deckers on there are not on there to replace the 71.

The busiest sections of all the iterations of the 71 / 72 has always been between Solihull & Chelmsley Wood. Whilst you're technically right, the MMCs & Eclipse II's have always had very healthy loading between these two areas. It's beyond Chelmsley Wood where it quietens down. Now that it's a shorter, high frequency, high patronage route, it makes sense to use double deckers on it.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on November 18, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
Quote from: MW on November 18, 2017, 02:58:11 PM
The busiest sections of all the iterations of the 71 / 72 has always been between Solihull & Chelmsley Wood. Whilst you're technically right, the MMCs & Eclipse II's have always had very healthy loading between these two areas. It's beyond Chelmsley Wood where it quietens down. Now that it's a shorter, high frequency, high patronage route, it makes sense to use double deckers on it.
Loadings between Chelmsley and Sutton have been healthy and good when I've used it, though patronage and frequency decrease,   loadings still remain healthy. 1903 had a full load leaving Sutton this afternoon, some of the other Omnilinks I've been on recently have had a standing load leaving Sutton.

From what I saw the Chelmsley to Solihull service seemed to cope with singles deckers and still does today when they are used, they did carry very healthy loads.
Though I suppose now that the low bridge in Castle Vale doesn't affect the route, the deckers do provide some extra capacity.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Jack on November 18, 2017, 04:22:01 PM
Quote from: 2206 on November 18, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
Loadings between Chelmsley and Sutton have been healthy and good when I've used it, though patronage and frequency decrease,   loadings still remain healthy. 1903 had a full load leaving Sutton this afternoon, some of the other Omnilinks I've been on recently have had a standing load leaving Sutton.

From what I saw the Chelmsley to Solihull service seemed to cope with singles deckers and do still today when they are used, they did carry very healthy loads.
Though I suppose now that the low bridge in Castle Vale doesn't affect the route, the deckers do provide some extra capacity.
Which proves my point. The 72 still copes with the MMC. So I'm not sure what some people are going mad about.
Most of the time in Solihull the Deckers are never that full, the E200 MMC's cope easily.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Dutsey on November 20, 2017, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 18, 2017, 04:22:01 PM
Which proves my point. The 72 still copes with the MMC. So I'm not sure what some people are going mad about.
Most of the time in Solihull the Deckers are never that full, the E200 MMC's cope easily.

When I was on the 72 the MMC was rammed and cramped and a bit uncomfortable. I can see why deckers are used.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: MW on November 20, 2017, 09:51:02 PM
So are these buses going to be kept at the site in Tyseley, or just fuelled and driven to the depot?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on May 19, 2018, 09:59:02 AM
I'm not an expert on reading these, but this appears to show Wrights & Van Hool have won the contracts for the Hydrogen Fuel Cell buses for the various authorities around the country including Birmingham

http://ted.europa.eu/TED/notice/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:215588-2018:TEXT:EN:HTML
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: winston on May 19, 2018, 10:37:20 AM
Quote from: Tony on May 19, 2018, 09:59:02 AM
I'm not an expert on reading these, but this appears to show Wrights & Van Hool have won the contracts for the Hydrogen Fuel Cell buses for the various authorities around the country including Birmingham

http://ted.europa.eu/TED/notice/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:215588-2018:TEXT:EN:HTML

Wrightbus have got the double decker order, whilst the single deck order is split between Van Hool & Wrightbus
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on October 05, 2020, 12:03:27 PM
Progress

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/news/article/727/hydrogen_buses_coming_to_birmingham_next_spring?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 12:06:37 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 05, 2020, 12:03:27 PM
Progress

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/news/article/727/hydrogen_buses_coming_to_birmingham_next_spring?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn
Will the sprint route start running in 2021 as well, or is it 2022 and that these vehicles will be used elsewhere initially?

Also I wander what this Sprint means for the current X1 to Coventry and X2 along Old Lode Lane. As very similar routes. Other than those sections of the route.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: DJ on October 05, 2020, 12:07:31 PM
The buses will be operated in Birmingham by National Express, with an ambition to run them on the new Sprint route when it opens.

So, does that mean that Sprint won't be using the VanHools after all?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on October 05, 2020, 12:09:55 PM
Quote from: StourValley98 on October 05, 2020, 12:07:31 PM
The buses will be operated in Birmingham by National Express, with an ambition to run them on the new Sprint route when it opens.

So, does that mean that Sprint won't be using the VanHools after all?

Hopefully!
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: DJ on October 05, 2020, 12:13:19 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 05, 2020, 12:09:55 PM
Hopefully!

Fingers crossed then! I always thought something like XLBs would suit it better, but I'll take some Hydrogen Streetdecks!
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Steve3229vp on October 05, 2020, 06:11:53 PM
Could these be for the proposed Cross city Walsall-Birmingham-Sheldon-Airport/NEC route, if so the 51 could go cross city with X1 (Airport only) and X2 possibly running as C1 and C2 (C meaning cross-city). The X1 could still remain for buses to and from Coventry.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: bususer28 on October 05, 2020, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 05, 2020, 06:11:53 PM
Could these be for the proposed Cross city Walsall-Birmingham-Sheldon-Airport/NEC route, if so the 51 could go cross city with X1 (Airport only) and X2 possibly running as C1 and C2 (C meaning cross-city). The X1 could still remain for buses to and from Coventry.
I think your mixing up sprint and the standard buses. Sprint won't be replacing nx routes, it will be to create a metro-like service with fewer stops and bus lanes.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on October 05, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
Quote from: bususer28 on October 05, 2020, 06:22:39 PM
I think your mixing up sprint and the standard buses. Sprint won't be replacing nx routes, it will be to create a metro-like service with fewer stops and bus lanes.

So you think putting a new route down a main road won't affect existing services?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 05, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
So you think putting a new route down a main road won't affect existing services?
Especially when they are near enough identical to the existing services. Is there a full proposed stop list for it, as think someone said something about it stopping more than the X51?

The A45 list I found says stopping at a number of major stops. Yardley Swan, Sunnymead Road, Brays Road and Lyndon Road so thats all the main stops on the X2 route on the Coventry Road towards Solihull. So think it will affect the existing service.
https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/sprint/supporting_documents/Sprint%20A45%20notes%20FINAL.pdf
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: ellspurs on October 05, 2020, 07:13:57 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
Especially when they are near enough identical to the existing services. Is there a full proposed stop list for it, as think someone said something about it stopping more than the X51?

The A45 list I found says stopping at a number of major stops. Yardley Swan, Sunnymead Road, Brays Road and Lyndon Road so thats all the main stops on the X2 route on the Coventry Road towards Solihull. So think it will affect the existing service.
https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/sprint/supporting_documents/Sprint%20A45%20notes%20FINAL.pdf

A possibility would be changing the X2 back into a 57, and having it run in tandem with the 60, stopping at all stops.

And for the X1, either truncating it to the Airport --> Coventry, or having it run non-stop from the Airport to Birmingham if there is still demand for a bus service to Birmingham from the Meriden/Coventry area.

And on t'other side, X51 (if it still needs to run) could be ran non-stop from either Great Barr or the M6 J7 roundabout to Birmingham, or withdraw and extend the 51 through to Cannock.

It's what I would look at if I didn't want to run a route with huge similarities to the Sprint service.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 05, 2020, 07:13:57 PM
A possibility would be changing the X2 back into a 57, and having it run in tandem with the 60, stopping at all stops.

And for the X1, either truncating it to the Airport --> Coventry, or having it run non-stop from the Airport to Birmingham if there is still demand for a bus service to Birmingham from the Meriden/Coventry area.

And on t'other side, X51 (if it still needs to run) could be ran non-stop from either Great Barr or the M6 J7 roundabout to Birmingham, or withdraw and extend the 51 through to Cannock.

It's what I would look at if I didn't want to run a route with huge similarities to the Sprint service.
Would there be anything preventing NX from extending the new Airport Sprint route onto Coventry?
If there's demand for a Birmingham - Coventry route.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Ginger66 on October 05, 2020, 07:19:03 PM
will the new hydrogen buses be single/dual door?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stu on October 05, 2020, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
Would there be anything preventing NX from extending the new Airport Sprint route onto Coventry?

The lack of Sprint infrastructure between the airport and Coventry for starters.  ;D
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 05, 2020, 08:13:01 PM
The lack of Sprint infrastructure between the airport and Coventry for starters.  ;D
Could it not operate on that section without the infrastructure though as presumably these vehicles are the same size to the platinums, so should be able to fit round the route?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Gareth on October 05, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Was that originally a photo of 3001? Looks like the old card reader arm seen in the windscreen.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: CL on October 05, 2020, 10:20:21 PM
Quote from: Gareth on October 05, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Was that originally a photo of 3301? Looks like the old card reader arm seen in the windscreen.
Looks like it - Harborne branded hybrid in its reflection too!
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: bususer28 on October 05, 2020, 10:43:22 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 05, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
So you think putting a new route down a main road won't affect existing services?
I'm not saying it won't but if it's as expensive as the metro is then people will continue to use the X51 considering journey times are only a few minutes shorter.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: bususer28 on October 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
More back to the point- weren't sprint routes meant to be run by multi door articulated vehicles or have I made that up.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Bob on October 06, 2020, 10:41:33 AM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 05, 2020, 07:13:57 PM
A possibility would be changing the X2 back into a 57, and having it run in tandem with the 60, stopping at all stops.

And for the X1, either truncating it to the Airport --> Coventry, or having it run non-stop from the Airport to Birmingham if there is still demand for a bus service to Birmingham from the Meriden/Coventry area.

And on t'other side, X51 (if it still needs to run) could be ran non-stop from either Great Barr or the M6 J7 roundabout to Birmingham, or withdraw and extend the 51 through to Cannock.

It's what I would look at if I didn't want to run a route with huge similarities to the Sprint service.

Or if the Sprint route is operated by NXWM buses withdraw the X51 and extend the Sprint to Cannock using existing X51 route from Walsall? Reduced journey times to Brum would be popular maybe?
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Kevin on October 06, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: bususer28 on October 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
More back to the point- weren't sprint routes meant to be run by multi door articulated vehicles or have I made that up.

It certainly looks like they're quietly glossing over that, unless they're proposing these buses as a stop gap for the inevitable delay to the planned Sprint vehicles coming in? If not, then I really don't see the point them using the Sprint brand anymore, it will just be a Platinum bus operated by the same operator that runs the current Platinum buses with more stops than the current Platinum route....
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: ellspurs on October 06, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 05, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
Would there be anything preventing NX from extending the new Airport Sprint route onto Coventry?
If there's demand for a Birmingham - Coventry route.

Quote from: Bob on October 06, 2020, 10:41:33 AM
Or if the Sprint route is operated by NXWM buses withdraw the X51 and extend the Sprint to Cannock using existing X51 route from Walsall? Reduced journey times to Brum would be popular maybe?

I was looking at it on the understanding that the Sprint routes were as stated and not being changed. Not 100% sure if the northern Sprint terminus was Great Barr or Walsall. If Walsall, would say for the limited-stopness to go from there, if there was the demand for it.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: BBS on October 06, 2020, 03:58:20 PM
Is there a garage these hydrogen buses are going?Or is it too early yet
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: ellspurs on October 06, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: bbs on October 06, 2020, 03:58:20 PM
Is there a garage these hydrogen buses are going?Or is it too early yet

There seems to be space allocated to the articulated versions of the Sprint buses at the new Perry Barr garage (according to plans) so possibly there? It'll be on the Sprint route there as well.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Stu on October 06, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: bbs on October 06, 2020, 03:58:20 PM
Is there a garage these hydrogen buses are going?Or is it too early yet

It is probably too early yet.

Quote from: ellspurs on October 06, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
There seems to be space allocated to the articulated versions of the Sprint buses at the new Perry Barr garage (according to plans) so possibly there? It'll be on the Sprint route there as well.

The press release states that it is Birmingham City Council who are buying the vehicles, with National Express operating them.

As BCC will own the vehicles, they may have their own dedicated depot for them, I don't know.

The vehicles will be refuelled at the new bio-mass centre in Tyseley, just off Small Heath Highway, which is also on the Sprint route, so it is feasible they could be refuelled there before returning to depot.

This is all speculation at present though.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: bususer28 on October 06, 2020, 10:56:38 PM
Quote from: Kevin on October 06, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
It certainly looks like they're quietly glossing over that, unless they're proposing these buses as a stop gap for the inevitable delay to the planned Sprint vehicles coming in? If not, then I really don't see the point them using the Sprint brand anymore, it will just be a Platinum bus operated by the same operator that runs the current Platinum buses with more stops than the current Platinum route....
The only comfort you could say is by the way the things are going or at least from my view, NX tickets will be accepted on sprint so I honestly believe patronage will be very strong.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: BBS on October 06, 2020, 11:30:19 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 06, 2020, 03:59:45 PM
There seems to be space allocated to the articulated versions of the Sprint buses at the new Perry Barr garage (according to plans) so possibly there? It'll be on the Sprint route there as well.
Maybe Acocks Green because Tyseley and Acocks Green are near each other.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Pat on October 07, 2020, 09:29:05 AM
Quote from: bbs on October 06, 2020, 11:30:19 PM
Maybe Acocks Green because Tyseley and Acocks Green are near each other.
It depends on so much more than the depot being near the biomass centre.  You need to take into account factors such as capacity.
Title: Re: New Hydrogen fuelled Buses for Birmingham.
Post by: Tony on March 01, 2021, 05:25:15 PM
I got this nice photo of First 39702 last Thursday, one of the batch ordered at the same time as the NX ones
http://wmbusphotos.com/FirstUK/30001-39999/39702.html