Hi there
I'm after a bit of help with old bus routes if anyone can help?
I'm working on a project looking at the history of some of the bus routes serving King's Heath operated by BCT/WMPTE/WMT/NXWM. I'm a member of King's Heath Local History Society, and I'm looking at this in relation to the development and expansion of the city over the last century.
I've already covered the major routes - 2, 11, 27, 35, 48/49/50; now I'm after a bit of information on the 'lesser' routes. I'm after anything about the 69, 76, 77, 163, 164/185 ... and any others? I'm told there was once a route numbered SWL?
Thanks in advance
The SWL (south west link) ran between Bearwood and Kings Heath using branded Leyland Lynxes. The route covered much of the same as the 11A/C but also served the QE hospital.It ran in the late 1990s The 69 route went from Worley Castle to Solihull and beyond. Some of the route became the 76 when that changed route. The 76 itself was formally the A6 and originally went to Birmingham airport before being cut back.
The 177/178 ran via Kings Heath between Birmingham and Redditch. This route has now become the 150/X50 but now follows a different route into Birmingham to previously. I am unsure of the other routes like the 163/164/185 as I do not remember them unfortunately.
Quote from: j789 on May 01, 2017, 11:38:41 PMThe 69 route went from Worley Castle to Solihull and beyond. Some of the route became the 76 when that changed route. The 76 itself was formally the A6 and originally went to Birmingham airport before being cut back.
Didn't the 69 get curtailed to Weoley Castle - Heartlands Hospital before it was withdrawn?
Services 165 / 185 became WMPTE operated (taken over from Midland Red) on 3 December 1973.
Here is a WMPTE ex Midland Red bus on the 185 service which shows a destination Chelmsley Wood via Solihull:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/7091190315/
The 163 service referred to ran from Kings Heath to Yardley Wood via Hollybank Road and Chinn Brook Road. Both this and the 2, Weoley Castle to Kings Heath, became part of the long 69 route, Weoley Castle to Heartlands Hospital.
The 77 ran alongside the 27 between Kings Heath and Northfield via Bournville, but went via Turves Green to Longbridge Station instead of down to West Heath.
Depending on how detailed you are going, there was also the Smiths Coaches Shennington (ta Yourbus) which was later acquired by WMT & re-branded Travel Yourbus. Their routes via Kings Heath included A6Y/C6Y, 50Y, 53Y, 54Y
Yourbus:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/albums/72157626341651553
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwmetrobuses/albums/72157661532149353
Yourbus 50Y:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/albums/72157632209957828
SWL branded Lynx:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/15852928355/in/album-72157649008760928/
Quote from: Walsall1955 on May 02, 2017, 08:56:05 AM
Services 165 / 185 became WMPTE operated (taken over from Midland Red) on 3 December 1973.
Here is a WMPTE ex Midland Red bus on the 185 service which shows a destination Chelmsley Wood via Solihull:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/7091190315/
165 and 185 were not taken over from Midland Red. They came about in the 1975 reorganization. Before then the ex Midland Red services covering parts of the route were:-
170 Wythall Church and Acocks Green via Grimes Hill, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
172 Wythall (Barkers La) and Acocks Green via Alcester Rd, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
175 Shirley Station to Chelmsley Wood via Solihull and Yardley
The 170, 172 and 175 were reformed as the 165 and 185 with one going via Haslucks Green Rd and the other via Shirley Station.
In October 1974 the only services thru Kings Heath were:
WMPTE 2, 11, 35 (Kings Heath to Brandwood Park Rd only), 48, 49 (Rush hour only), 50
MROC 148 (Birmingham - Evesham), 348 (Birmingham - ?) and X8 (Birminghma - Redditch - Matchborough limited stop).
Thanks for the great information...
I remember the 77 following the 27 quite closely, but I couldn't remember the details. I know it stopped around deregulation, with WMT launching a new 77 service along the Soho Road, but do you happen to know when the Kings Heath 77 started?
I'm intrigued by the SWL oddball; thanks for the link to the picture. I'm interested in its route - why follow the 11? Only a historian like me would find it fascinating that Kings Heath to Bearwood was the route of the original 10, which was merged with sister route 11 to form the Outer Circle in 1926... How frequently did the SWL run?
I thought that the 163 was a daytime-only shoppers' service in the last days of WMPTE?
Am I right in thinking that the 2 finally disappeared in 1989 when the 69 was introduced?
My era was late WMPTE / early WMT so I'm at a loss with more recent changes; when did the 27 begin its metamorphosis into the snaking monster it is today? Every street in south Birmingham seems to have a 27 on it, or a 76!
Sorry for all the questions ::)
Quote from: Barmad on May 02, 2017, 09:44:51 PM
I'm intrigued by the SWL oddball; thanks for the link to the picture. I'm interested in its route - why follow the 11? Only a historian like me would find it fascinating that Kings Heath to Bearwood was the route of the original 10, which was merged with sister route 11 to form the Outer Circle in 1926... How frequently did the SWL run?
I think it was to help with the unreliability of the 11A/C over that stretch of the route but also to give a link from South Birmingham to the QE hospital as one did not exist (Now there is the 84 route). I believe it was every 20 minutes. I used to use the 11 a lot to and from school and remember speaking with a 11A driver from AG garage, as well as hearing this from other sources at the time, who said there were problems with the Yardley Wood garage run SWL taking passengers away from the 11 route so they stopped it. I could never understand this as both routes were the same company so it made little sense to me, unless the AG drivers were worried the 11 frequency may be reduced I suppose and reduce overtime etc.
I too recall the SWL being every 20 minutes but thought that it was run from the Selly Oak Elliot Rd depot (former Pattersons yard), an outstation of Birmingham Central garage, rather than Yardley Wood?
The 163 was indeed a daytime only shoppers service. The 164 Kings Heath to Yardley Yew Tree (a replacement for the 185) was the other route that was replaced by the 69.
I'm not too hot on dates on the 77, other than recalling it being around in the early to mid 1980s. A forum member by the name of Justin Tyme is a wealth of knowledge on former BCT and WMPTE routes and dates - hopefully he'll drop by soon.
You may find the UK transport wiki WM bus route 76 page (http://uktransport.wikia.com/wiki/West_Midlands_bus_route_76) of interest.
I also remember when they trial the 69 running to Whythall however that didn't last very long. Early 00s maybe??
Quote from: Busmapper on May 02, 2017, 11:47:34 PM
You may find the UK transport wiki WM bus route 76 page (http://uktransport.wikia.com/wiki/West_Midlands_bus_route_76) of interest.
Yes, interesting. I hadn't realised that the 2 had been extended to Yardley Wood shortly before the 69 route was introduced. Funny how things come full circle, with the 2 serving the QE Hospital up to the early 1970s and its modern day equivalent the 76 now doing the same. Routes were often more reliable in those days due both to much lighter traffic but also due to them generally being much shorter - the 2 for example was just Kings Heath - Selly Park - Selly Oak for some time.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 03, 2017, 08:14:22 AM
I also remember when they trial the 69 running to Whythall however that didn't last very long. Early 00s maybe??
Yes the 69 had a couple of variants.
69 Weoley Castle to Heartlands Hospital
69A Selly Oak to Solihull
69B Weoley Castle to Wythall
The 69A and 69B were withdrawn around 2005 I think and the 69 curtailed to run Weoley Castle to Solihull only with a new 169 taking up the Heartlands Hospital to Solihull section (Now the 73)
Then in 2009 I believe the 69 was cut to Brandwood to Wythall. Lasted a year I think.
Thanks for the continued posts...
I found the 76 page very interesting, touching on plenty of other queries :) The challenge now is to try and simplify that information for the casual local historian!
Now I know how the 69 and 76 were born; and so I'm guessing the 27's re-imagining was around 2003/4..? I know it's changed a few times but I really want to know when it first made its transition from one of Birmingham's most iconic inter-suburban routes? And did the the 69 still visit the QE Hospital?
Thank you everybody for your contributions. Final request: can anybody link me to the picture of the 50 wearing its party hat on its 50th birthday?
Quote from: busfan2847 on May 02, 2017, 06:09:06 PM
165 and 185 were not taken over from Midland Red. They came about in the 1975 reorganization. Before then the ex Midland Red services covering parts of the route were:-
170 Wythall Church and Acocks Green via Grimes Hill, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
172 Wythall (Barkers La) and Acocks Green via Alcester Rd, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
175 Shirley Station to Chelmsley Wood via Solihull and Yardley
The 170, 172 and 175 were reformed as the 165 and 185 with one going via Haslucks Green Rd and the other via Shirley Station.
In October 1974 the only services thru Kings Heath were:
WMPTE 2, 11, 35 (Kings Heath to Brandwood Park Rd only), 48, 49 (Rush hour only), 50
MROC 148 (Birmingham - Evesham), 348 (Birmingham - ?) and X8 (Birminghma - Redditch - Matchborough limited stop).
Thank you for correcting my errors.
Here are some 1974 timetables and route map extract which confirm what you say:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/33591396524/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/33591397194/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/33623211433/in/dateposted-public/
Quote from: busfan2847 on May 02, 2017, 06:09:06 PM
165 and 185 were not taken over from Midland Red. They came about in the 1975 reorganization. Before then the ex Midland Red services covering parts of the route were:-
170 Wythall Church and Acocks Green via Grimes Hill, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
172 Wythall (Barkers La) and Acocks Green via Alcester Rd, Maypole, Shirley, Kineton Green Rd and Olton
175 Shirley Station to Chelmsley Wood via Solihull and Yardley
The 170, 172 and 175 were reformed as the 165 and 185 with one going via Haslucks Green Rd and the other via Shirley Station.
In October 1974 the only services thru Kings Heath were:
WMPTE 2, 11, 35 (Kings Heath to Brandwood Park Rd only), 48, 49 (Rush hour only), 50
MROC 148 (Birmingham - Evesham), 348 (Birmingham - ?) and X8 (Birminghma - Redditch - Matchborough limited stop).
OK it was more complicated than I said above!
170/172 and 174 (Acocks Green - Sheldon) weer replaced by 167 Sheldon - Acocks Green - Shirley - Maypole - Kings Heath on 1st June 1975.
The 175 (Chelmsley Wood - Solihull - Shirley) was extended via Maypole to Wythall.
It was the 167 (and the 175) which was replaced by the 165/185 from 16th November 1975. The 165 went onto Cotteridge from Maypole, the 185 to Kings Heath. From that date WMPTE buses did not serve Wythall. 165/185 were later cut back to start and end at Maypole.
The current 27 does indeed date from ~2003/04 time, prior to which the service number had had a decade in hibernation while an extended and single decker operatored service 35 covered the route. The extension to Maypole dates from the final withdrawal of the 69 in July 2010.
I don't believe service 69 ever served the QEH.
Correct the 69 didn't serve QEH. It truned along Gibbins Road and terminated at Weoley Castle Square.
Quote from: Busmapper on May 14, 2017, 06:10:33 PM
The current 27 does indeed date from ~2003/04 time, prior to which the service number had had a decade in hibernation while an extended and single decker operatored service 35 covered the route. The extension to Maypole dates from the final withdrawal of the 69 in July 2010.
Thanks, I never knew this! A pretty big gap in my knowledge! The mid-90s up to about two or three years ago is my blind spot...
So did the 35 go something like City - Kings Heath - Bournville - Northfield - Hawkesley? From the mid-90s, maybe?
I think it was around 1994. By then the 27 had been extended to become the 'South Circle' - Kings Heath - Bournville - Northfield - West Heath - Hawkesley - Brandwood - Kings Heath.
This was then replaced by extending the 35. The new route was city - Balsall Heath - Moseley - Kings Heath - Brandwood - Hawkesley - West Heath - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath. Returning via reverse of the above route, not circular.
I'm surprised the 35 lasted as long as it did in that form.
Quote from: Mike K on May 18, 2017, 10:03:15 PM
I think it was around 1994. By then the 27 had been extended to become the 'South Circle' - Kings Heath - Bournville - Northfield - West Heath - Hawkesley - Brandwood - Kings Heath.
This was then replaced by extending the 35. The new route was city - Balsall Heath - Moseley - Kings Heath - Brandwood - Hawkesley - West Heath - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath. Returning via reverse of the above route, not circular.
I'm surprised the 35 lasted as long as it did in that form.
Yes, I used to have a timetable back in the 90's for the 27A and 27C.
I seem to remember there were a number of shorts on the 35 that only ran to Pool Farm. Possibly numbered 35S which had a slightly different route between Kings Heath and Parsons Hill.
Throughout the 'd' shaped route years the 35 ran regular shorts, generally every other service, to Pool Farm. At the start of the 00s Travel Your Bus (http://uktransport.wikia.com/wiki/Travel_Your_Bus) ran their version of the 35E but via Doversley Rd rather than Allens Croft Rd. When TYB was dissolved soon afterward the 35Y became the 35S for a time.
Quote from: Barmad on May 02, 2017, 09:44:51 PM
Thanks for the great information...
I remember the 77 following the 27 quite closely, but I couldn't remember the details. I know it stopped around deregulation, with WMT launching a new 77 service along the Soho Road, but do you happen to know when the Kings Heath 77 started?
I'm intrigued by the SWL oddball; thanks for the link to the picture. I'm interested in its route - why follow the 11? Only a historian like me would find it fascinating that Kings Heath to Bearwood was the route of the original 10, which was merged with sister route 11 to form the Outer Circle in 1926... How frequently did the SWL run?
I thought that the 163 was a daytime-only shoppers' service in the last days of WMPTE?
Am I right in thinking that the 2 finally disappeared in 1989 when the 69 was introduced?
My era was late WMPTE / early WMT so I'm at a loss with more recent changes; when did the 27 begin its metamorphosis into the snaking monster it is today? Every street in south Birmingham seems to have a 27 on it, or a 76!
Sorry for all the questions ::)
If memory serves the 77 came about ion the South Birmingham route changes of summer 1980. hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall this was the first use by WMPTE of numbers in the 70s that were not Soho Road routes. This gave us the 72 City - Kitwell (which later became the 22) the 73 which I believe was a variant of the 20 and the 77 a variant of the 27. The same changes also did away with the old BCT 22 & gave us the 29 Birmingham - Harborne - Northfield
Quote from: Pete50492 on May 21, 2017, 07:25:24 AM
If memory serves the 77 came about ion the South Birmingham route changes of summer 1980. hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall this was the first use by WMPTE of numbers in the 70s that were not Soho Road routes. This gave us the 72 City - Kitwell (which later became the 22) the 73 which I believe was a variant of the 20 and the 77 a variant of the 27. The same changes also did away with the old BCT 22 & gave us the 29 Birmingham - Harborne - Northfield
That sounds about right for the 77. It disappeared at deregulation in 1986. The 73 was indeed a variant of the 20 operating via Swarthmore Rd and Weoley Castle between Northfield and Woodgate Valley, the 20 becoming a peak only service.