The last people anyone asks about this are bus drivers or their representitives. These matters seem to be settled by common sense and reasonableness, but do any drivers on here have any views?
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Legal/Industry_joins_FirstGroup_in_welcoming_wheelchair_clarification
To pressurise someone to move from the wheelchair bay is causing conflict.
National Express train drivers for conflict avoidance, therefore I won't pressurise anyone to move. I will continue to treat disabled passengers the same as any other passengers. Equal rights are equal rights..... No one should have priority over anybody else.
Quote from: pndriver on January 18, 2017, 04:51:04 PM
To pressurise someone to move from the wheelchair bay is causing conflict.
National Express train drivers for conflict avoidance, therefore I won't pressurise anyone to move. I will continue to treat disabled passengers the same as any other passengers. Equal rights are equal rights..... No one should have priority over anybody else.
I have to say
@pndriver that i agree with you.
Surely the point is that disabled people should be treated equally to all other people, not to be given preference.
Drivers and bus companies are going to be caught up in a vicious war on pushchair v wheelchair wars
And the press and tv will have a field day Twisting the stories
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38663322
A lot has been made in this article about how it should be the driver who forces buggy users to give up the space.
I think it shows how incredibly selfish and inconsiderate a lot of people have become, where some passengers will just refuse to give up their space or fold up their buggy.
Quote from: Stu on January 18, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38663322
A lot has been made in this article about how it should be the driver who forces buggy users to give up the space.
I think it shows how incredibly selfish and inconsiderate a lot of people have become, where some passengers will just refuse to give up their space or fold up their buggy.
mothers with there benifit baby's full of primarny bags do think they own the bus
Quote from: karl724223 on January 18, 2017, 07:36:24 PM
mothers with there benifit baby's full of primarny bags do think they own the bus
But isn't this a case of the Supreme Court giving a ruling, but no indication of how the situation is to be handled.
For example, a bus is virtually full when I get on and so I have to stand in the wheelchair area because there is no where else. At the next stop, a person in a wheelchair wants to get on. What happens next, I am asked to move when there is no place unless I stand on the platform obscuring the drivers view to his mirrors. Yes the driver could drive past as the bus is full but that would cause problems to.
On the 333x it will be worse than any other buses wheelchair uses getting out their wheelchairs and throwing the mothers and there pushchairs off the bus
@Dom
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 18, 2017, 07:51:02 PM
But isn't this a case of the Supreme Court giving a ruling, but no indication of how the situation is to be handled.
For example, a bus is virtually full when I get on and so I have to stand in the wheelchair area because there is no where else. At the next stop, a person in a wheelchair wants to get on. What happens next, I am asked to move when there is no place unless I stand on the platform obscuring the drivers view to his mirrors. Yes the driver could drive past as the bus is full but that would cause problems to.
Oh Jesus f*** this is just a whole other can of worms
If a wheelchair user could have a go at the bus company for not letting them on board when the bus is full and standing then surely any able bodied person could do the same
Got to draw a line somewhere
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 18, 2017, 07:51:02 PM
For example, a bus is virtually full when I get on and so I have to stand in the wheelchair area because there is no where else. At the next stop, a person in a wheelchair wants to get on. What happens next, I am asked to move when there is no place unless I stand on the platform obscuring the drivers view to his mirrors. Yes the driver could drive past as the bus is full but that would cause problems to.
It's always going to be a tough call for the driver. It would probably not be such a major issue if the bus service in question was very frequent, because then at least the next bus would only be a few minutes behind. But you can imagine the outrage if the service was half-hourly or hourly!
I suppose the other argument (that I think has been put forward previously) is shouldn't wheelchair users use 'accessible transport', like Ring & Ride, rather than regular public services. But then again, the rest of the country doesn't have a Ring & Ride service, like we have here in the West Midlands, thanks to government cut-backs!
Quote from: Kevin on January 18, 2017, 08:02:25 PM
Oh Jesus f*** this is just a whole other can of worms
If a wheelchair user could have a go at the bus company for not letting them on board when the bus is full and standing then surely any able bodied person could do the same
Got to draw a line somewhere
The problem is, with the ruling as it stands, am sure this will happen before long. This is why i say, disabled people should be treated equally as other passengers are.
I remember when Blackpool Transport first started low floor buses on the 14, it was stated in there timetables that if wheelchair passengers were unable to board for any reason, then to call them and a wheelchair friendly taxi would be provided for them.
Surely we don't have to go down this route.
Ah, the chaos you get on the 11 when theres already two pushchairs and a 3rd tried to come on.
I recall a complaint from a wheelchair (regular passenger). Buses driving past him when they're full. We were told to stop for the wheelchair guy and tell him there isn't any space and continue. Even that is ridiculous, especially considering that his disability wasn't blindness.
If it wasn't for the pure ignorance of all the benefit breeders out there, there wouldn't have been any need for this. My mum walked put of hospital with a newborn me and straight onto a Alexander PS bodied Volvo B10M, if people were able to fold buggies on that route up until 2008, then they still can! Children and their mothers can sit anywhere on the bus, wheelchair users can only vacate 1 seat of the lot...
Now while I think it's unfair for the driver to have to foot the responsibility, I agree with the idea someone had of introducing fines...
Whilst I also agree
With equality of all passengers, we do have to remember the above - anyone can sit/stand almost anywhere, wheelchair users can only sit in 1 place only.
Obviously there are exceptions to this i.e if (as stated above) the bus is near/at capacity, but when the bus has nobody except Greggs laden scummy mummys and their screaming devil children onboard, they should most definitely not be occupying the bay... It's a difficult one because no matter what the driver does, they'll be made out to be the bad guy...
At one time buggies could be easily folded and buses had luggage racks. Buses no longer have luggage racks and buggies are the size of a small spaceship. What are these passengers supposed to do? They can't be kicked off as that's discrimation against the parent and able bodied and therefore not being treated equally. Equal rights works both ways. It's such a complex area, more of a moral issue than anything else.
I agree but dont forget that the judge said that drivers can delay the bus for several minutes while he negotiates with the parties involved. It is quite obviously a very long time since he has been on a bus!!
Quote from: karl724223 on January 18, 2017, 08:01:19 PM
On the 333x it will be worse than any other buses wheelchair uses getting out their wheelchairs and throwing the mothers and there pushchairs off the bus @Dom
Not so bad now only one Pushchair gets on board but there was one or two the other day on board but the mother got off next stop anyway. But yesterday a disabled person in a wheelchair got on and seems on the 15:00 333X no one uses the rear doors the mother and Pushchair stood by them. While the wheelchair took the space.
What they need to do now is make it law to move if your not disabled so that passengers know they have to do it - like smoking on buses is now illegal. Otherwise it is asking for trouble as of course it will lead to conflict and as usual the drivers will be blamed by everyone, passengers and the company. At First we already have to fill out 'refusal to carry' forms ( I guess the same for other companies to) if we can't let a wheelchair on which I think should be enough to cover the driver from any responsibility.
Again, what would happen, on a low frequency route in particular, if a wheelchair was already on and another wanted to board. Is the driver/ Company going to get sued for just following safety rules? Not to mention those people who get on in a wheelchair and then proceed to park it, get up and walk to another seat!!!
Quote from: j789 on January 19, 2017, 08:11:53 PM
Not to mention those people who get on in a wheelchair and then proceed to park it, get up and walk to another seat!!!
Same goes for the mummies who bring their buggy on board (which could probably be folded away easily), park it in the buggy zone, then take the kid out and go and sit towards the back. Then start playing with their phone while their children run around treating the bus like a playground. I have seen this, it does happen. I have also seen what appears to be an 'abandoned' wheelchair, in the buggy zone. Infuriating.
Quote from: Stu on January 19, 2017, 08:21:19 PM
Same goes for the mummies who bring their buggy on board (which could probably be folded away easily), park it in the buggy zone, then take the kid out and go and sit towards the back. Then start playing with their phone while their children run around treating the bus like a playground. I have seen this, it does happen. I have also seen what appears to be an 'abandoned' wheelchair, in the buggy zone. Infuriating.
I've seen this countless times myself. I remember 1 particular occasion were the lady got on with a pushchair, parked that up in the designated area and proceeded to take herself and the child upstairs and a few stops someone wanted to get on but couldn't as the space was "occupied". I'm all for giving mothers space on a bus but their are entitled people going around feeling like their own that particular space on a bus.