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West Midlands Buses in Discussion => General Discussion, Questions & Route Suggestions => Topic started by: the trainbasher on September 16, 2016, 01:47:55 AM

Title: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 16, 2016, 01:47:55 AM
I have done a FOI Request to centro and have obtained the full list of what tenders have been won.

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYQx716PwobdNezmQQ
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: GeminiFan1991 on September 16, 2016, 02:12:44 AM
Quote from: the trainbasher on September 16, 2016, 01:47:55 AM
I have done a spreadsheet with what tenders have been issued based on the notices and proceedings that were released at 0010hrs 16/09/2016.

Please see link here (spreadsheet is password protected for editing!)

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYMgy55UG3EwgTcxMw

I have put in a FOI request for the full results from the WMCA/TfWM so will be able to update further soon...

Many thanks for the spreadsheet as it makes understanding these tenders a lot easier.

The 205 which NX has now gained, I'm assuming thats the Sunday service ?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on September 16, 2016, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on September 16, 2016, 02:12:44 AM
Many thanks for the spreadsheet as it makes understanding these tenders a lot easier.

The 205 which NX has now gained, I'm assuming thats the Sunday service ?

Sunday and evening, is what I was told.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: 2206 on September 16, 2016, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on September 16, 2016, 01:47:55 AM
I have done a spreadsheet with what tenders have been issued based on the notices and proceedings that were released at 0010hrs 16/09/2016.

Please see link here (spreadsheet is password protected for editing!)

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYMgy55UG3EwgTcxMw

I have put in a FOI request for the full results from the WMCA/TfWM so will be able to update further soon...
Will the 71A use Tangmere Drive, or Farnborough Road in Castle Vale?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on September 16, 2016, 09:01:46 PM
According to VOSA, Hanson's have cancelled the 231.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: GeminiFan1991 on September 16, 2016, 10:36:40 PM
Quote from: Dom on September 16, 2016, 06:53:54 AM
Sunday and evening, is what I was told.

Thanks, from what I gather the Sunday PVR is 1.

Would you happen to know when these tenders come into effect ?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: 2206 on September 16, 2016, 10:39:52 PM
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on September 16, 2016, 10:36:40 PM
Thanks, from what I gather the Sunday PVR is 1.

Would you happen to know when these tenders come into effect ?
October 23rd. @GeminiFan1991
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on September 19, 2016, 04:13:26 PM
Confirmed that Diamond have the evening & Sunday journeys on the 226.

Also NX have won the Sunday contract on the 205 and the evening journeys on the 243.

Late evening journeys on the 222 are to be withdrawn (think these are commercial).

Appears the 282 has been withdrawn totally.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on September 19, 2016, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 19, 2016, 04:13:26 PM
Confirmed that Diamond have the evening & Sunday journeys on the 226.

Also NX have won the Sunday contract on the 205 and the evening journeys on the 243.

Late evening journeys on the 222 are to be withdrawn (think these are commercial).

Appears the 282 has been withdrawn totally.

Where have you got this info from?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on September 19, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
Quote from: Dom on September 19, 2016, 04:14:40 PM
Where have you got this info from?

Latest Network West Midlands Service update.


One i forgot, NX have won the 81 on evenings and Sundays.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on September 19, 2016, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 19, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
Latest Network West Midlands Service update.


One i forgot, NX have won the 81 on evenings and Sundays.

Cheers bud, just checked my emails haha!

NX appear to now have the 44 on Sundays as well.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: s94 on September 19, 2016, 05:51:28 PM
Yes looks like the 282 has finally lost the battle. How does the 298/9 do these days? That was a very low patronage route wasn't it? Is it still that way?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Kevin on September 19, 2016, 06:11:57 PM
Quote from: Dom on September 19, 2016, 04:27:49 PM
NX appear to now have the 44 on Sundays as well.

Anyone know if the tender itself is for the whole Sunday route or just the bit that NX do the rest of the week?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Trident 4609 on September 19, 2016, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Kevin on September 19, 2016, 06:11:57 PM
Anyone know if the tender itself is for the whole Sunday route or just the bit that NX do the rest of the week?

To Harvills Hawthorn as per Mon-Sat. Increased to half hourly on Sundays.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on September 19, 2016, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: s94 on September 19, 2016, 05:51:28 PM
Yes looks like the 282 has finally lost the battle. How does the 298/9 do these days? That was a very low patronage route wasn't it? Is it still that way?

The 298/9 route does ok, but on Saturday for instance I saw it 4 times and the most I saw on it was 1.

As have said before, could easily be covered by an hourly diversion of the 276.

Sadly the 288 doesn't do very well these days and I am told that the residents of Love Lane aren't looking forward to Hansons running it again!
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 20, 2016, 11:17:53 PM
@2206 This contains your answer

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYRv9scsjSO7W_Br8Q
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 20, 2016, 11:21:34 PM
I've updated my original post with a link to a centro provided PDF with the full list

I have also managed to obtain, thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, the tender specification for each one up for Grabs
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 20, 2016, 11:40:01 PM
@GeminiFan1991

Looking at the specifications, the 205 is the first 2 morning trips and all Sunday trips to Wall Heath (two separate tenders)
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: GeminiFan1991 on September 20, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on September 20, 2016, 11:40:01 PM
@GeminiFan1991

Looking at the specifications, the 205 is the first 2 morning trips and all Sunday trips to Wall Heath (two separate tenders)

Thanks man,

could you provide a link to running times (If possible) as it'll make forward planning easier. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 21, 2016, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on September 20, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
Thanks man,

could you provide a link to running times (If possible) as it'll make forward planning easier. I appreciate it.

Sundays is 25 minutes each way leaving Wall Heath at 0905 and hourly. last trip 1705
leaving Dudley 0935 and hourly thereafter until 1735

I've the early morning one as an attachment
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: 2206 on September 21, 2016, 01:24:36 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on September 20, 2016, 11:17:53 PM
@2206 This contains your answer

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYRv9scsjSO7W_Br8Q
Thanks.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on September 21, 2016, 04:59:16 PM
What happens with the contracts that have not been let?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on September 21, 2016, 05:40:21 PM
I expect that they will just not be replaced
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:10:41 PM
Sunday evening journeys on the 81, Wolverhampton to Merry Hill have been withdrawn due to lack of patronage.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on October 04, 2016, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:10:41 PM
Sunday evening journeys on the 81, Wolverhampton to Merry Hill have been withdrawn due to lack of patronage.

I can understand Sunday evening journeys tbh
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on October 04, 2016, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:10:41 PM
Sunday evening journeys on the 81, Wolverhampton to Merry Hill have been withdrawn due to lack of patronage.

Quote from: Dom on October 04, 2016, 05:11:41 PM
I can understand Sunday evening journeys tbh

There was three options for that contract (one was current service level, one was Sunday daytimes only and one was no Sunday evenings)
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:19:10 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on October 04, 2016, 05:14:18 PM
There was three options for that contract (one was current service level, one was Sunday daytimes only and one was no Sunday evenings)

Sorry @the trainbasher , slightly confused, surely Sunday daytimes onlly and no Sunday evening are the same?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on October 04, 2016, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:19:10 PM
Sorry @the trainbasher , slightly confused, surely Sunday daytimes onlly and no Sunday evening are the same?

No. The Sunday daytimes only is all the 81 would have been...as in no Monday-Sunday nights
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on October 04, 2016, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on October 04, 2016, 05:21:51 PM
No. The Sunday daytimes only is all the 81 would have been...as in no Monday-Sunday nights

So they've chose the no Sunday evening one? Like I said, can't blame them for not having them.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 07:10:08 PM
tbh, am surprised that further tenders haven't included an option for no Sunday evening service, even commercial services struggle then!
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: karl724223 on October 04, 2016, 08:21:38 PM
Not being funny but with council and tfwm cut backs why throw money at routes that nobody is catching  use the routes or lose them
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: MW on October 04, 2016, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on October 04, 2016, 08:21:38 PM
Not being funny but with council and tfwm cut backs why throw money at routes that nobody is catching  use the routes or lose them

It's not real money karl.

The money doesn't exist. It's just a number created by the government. It's not as if they'll spend it anywhere else anyway
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 05, 2016, 08:31:14 PM
In connection with Sunday services, does anybody else feel that there should now be seperate timetables for Sundays & Bank Holidays.

Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: karl724223 on October 05, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 05, 2016, 08:31:14 PM
In connection with Sunday services, does anybody else feel that there should now be seperate timetables for Sundays & Bank Holidays.
is there a need for most Sunday and bank holiday services nowadays
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 05, 2016, 08:48:05 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on October 05, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
is there a need for most Sunday and bank holiday services nowadays

well an example , in the past I have seen 276s on a Sunday evening going through Lye virtually empty, Bank Holiday Monday and same journey and bus full.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on October 05, 2016, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on October 05, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
is there a need for most Sunday and bank holiday services nowadays

To an extent I feel there is for those who can't drive and wish to travel somewhere. For example couple of Sundays back me and my girlfriend went to Merry Hill and we wouldn't of been able to without a bus service.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Trident 4609 on October 13, 2016, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 04, 2016, 05:10:41 PM
Sunday evening journeys on the 81, Wolverhampton to Merry Hill have been withdrawn due to lack of patronage.

Not according to the timetable on the NX website. Lists trips on Sunday eveings too.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 13, 2016, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Nathan on October 13, 2016, 09:29:07 PM
Not according to the timetable on the NX website. Lists trips on Sunday eveings too.

@Nathan, interesting as the Network West Midland lastest weekly update states that the evening journeys are withdrawn, however the new timetable on their website shows the journeys, one hand not knowing what the other is doing perhaps.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Trident 4609 on October 13, 2016, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 13, 2016, 10:52:45 PM
@Nathan, interesting as the Network West Midland lastest weekly update states that the evening journeys are withdrawn, however the new timetable on their website shows the journeys, one hand not knowing what the other is doing perhaps.

I recieve the weekley updates too and noticed it said the Sunday night journeys were axed.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: the trainbasher on October 14, 2016, 02:38:17 AM
@Nathan @Stuharris 6360 here is a link to the tender specification that was the option NXWM won on

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AkYwwM3qx22AgYRpY2N1UYEBX5MkJQ
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 18, 2016, 03:43:49 PM
According to the latest network west midlands email, extra evening journeys are to be added under contract on the 222.

Don't know if the current new timetable on there website is correct as it shows last journeys from Dudley at 20:40 Mon - Sat and 17:00 on Sundays and from Merry Hill at 21:15 Mon - Sat and 17:40 on Sunday?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Trident 4609 on October 18, 2016, 06:03:45 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 18, 2016, 03:43:49 PM
According to the latest network west midlands email, extra evening journeys are to be added under contract on the 222.

Don't know if the current new timetable on there website is correct as it shows last journeys from Dudley at 20:40 Mon - Sat and 17:00 on Sundays and from Merry Hill at 21:15 Mon - Sat and 17:40 on Sunday?

@Stuharris 6360 i noticed that also, but it has now been updated. Will operate hourly during the evening.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: GeminiFan1991 on October 18, 2016, 06:52:18 PM
I was checking the timetable for the 205 thinking it'd be different (Not sure why) but its the same as the Diamond journey which is convenient.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on October 18, 2016, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on October 18, 2016, 06:52:18 PM
I was checking the timetable for the 205 thinking it'd be different (Not sure why) but its the same as the Diamond journey which is convenient.

It's a tender so unless anything changes within the tender it will be the same.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stu on October 18, 2016, 08:45:41 PM
I have enquired with NX regarding the 81 on Sundays, and am awaiting a response. A query was brought up on my Facebook page, regarding the withdrawal of the Sunday evening journeys. The documents that TheTrainbasher provided here do show that the tender specification didn't include these journeys. Yet NX have announced on their website, and shown in their new timetable, that there will be evening journeys on Sunday.

I suspect one of two things:
1) NX are in error, and there won't be any Sunday evening journeys on the 81
2) NX will be operating Sunday evening journeys on the 81 'out-of-contract', ie commercially.



Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 18, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 18, 2016, 08:45:41 PM
I have enquired with NX regarding the 81 on Sundays, and am awaiting a response. A query was brought up on my Facebook page, regarding the withdrawal of the Sunday evening journeys. The documents that TheTrainbasher provided here do show that the tender specification didn't include these journeys. Yet NX have announced on their website, and shown in their new timetable, that there will be evening journeys on Sunday.

I suspect one of two things:
1) NX are in error, and there won't be any Sunday evening journeys on the 81
2) NX will be operating Sunday evening journeys on the 81 'out-of-contract', ie commercially.

Sadly i suspect it will be option 1, can't see NX taking on commercially a service that Network West Midlands won't subsidise because of poor patronage.

I wonder in future how many contracts will be let without Sunday evening services, certainly services on Sunday evenings are getting quieter and quieter.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Westy on October 18, 2016, 10:52:36 PM
Suppose if you're lucky & live near a core route, you're ok?

For example on Boxing Day(I know, but using it as an example, it was normal Sunday daytime service, but in Walsall, the only evening journeys after 7pm, that were operated were the 301/302, the 4, the 529 & the 51.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on October 19, 2016, 05:57:13 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37691160
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: winston on October 19, 2016, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 19, 2016, 05:57:13 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37691160

Full annual bus statics document:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561060/annual-bus-statistics-year-ending-march-2016.pdf
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Dom on October 23, 2016, 10:48:26 AM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 18, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
Sadly i suspect it will be option 1, can't see NX taking on commercially a service that Network West Midlands won't subsidise because of poor patronage.

I wonder in future how many contracts will be let without Sunday evening services, certainly services on Sunday evenings are getting quieter and quieter.

Late night Sunday trips are happening, they're on the running boards.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Stu on October 23, 2016, 12:35:54 PM
Quote from: Dom on October 23, 2016, 10:48:26 AM
Late night Sunday trips aew happening, they're on the running boards.

Thanks for confirming for me better than my response from NX did. They replied to my email with a PDF copy of the new timetable after some woman tried to call me at work who couldn't/wouldn't answer my question about whether those journeys were being commercially operated.
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: Alex on October 23, 2016, 06:13:45 PM
Both the 71 & 77 were still being operated by their previous operators today, thought the changeover date was today?
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: John on October 23, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 23, 2016, 06:13:45 PM
Both the 71 & 77 were still being operated by their previous operators today, thought the changeover date was today?

Diamond were on the 71 in the daytime today, but I did see a NX 71A in Sutton around half 5 this evening
Title: Re: October 2016 Tenders
Post by: 2206 on October 23, 2016, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 23, 2016, 06:13:45 PM
Both the 71 & 77 were still being operated by their previous operators today, thought the changeover date was today?
NX have won the evening tender. Diamond still have the Sunday daytime one.