Don't suppose anyone knows them yet, do they?
Wasn't Arriva's 35/41 /77 & 8A /335, for example?
Now NX has the daytime 41, has anything been added?
Quote from: Westy on July 24, 2016, 02:29:07 PM
Don't suppose anyone knows them yet, do they?
Wasn't Arriva's 35/41 /77 & 8A /335, for example?
Now NX has the daytime 41, has anything been added?
Looking at the timetables, the 37 and 41 inter work at Willenhall on Sundays
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 24, 2016, 02:32:29 PM
Looking at the timetables, the 37 and 41 inter work at Willenhall on Sundays
Correct and in the evenings.
I've been wanting to ask this question for a while now and I didn't want to create a thread just for it so here goes. Exactly why do routes interwork ? I know what it is and routes that do it (e.g. X51/ 997 etc...) but I've just never understood from an operational perspective. My hunch is that if boards/ timetables are worked out correctly, it can reduce the Vehicle Requirement.
The X51 mainly interworks with the 997E's in Birmingham although do have some interworking with full 997's.
The 243/244 interworks which then interworks with the 276 on evenings.
West brom have the 82 and 87, 42 and 43, 45 and 46 interworks on nights, 47 and 49 interwork on nights, 74 and 75 interwork at times in Birmingham, 83 and 89 and the 127 and 128.
Wolverhampton have the 3, 4 and 6s on Sundays and 54 and 154.
Not sure on other garages. Obviously some running boards have journeys on other routes for example iirc X96/07 has/had a 256 on it(?) and 9/23(?) does the 3pm 205 followed by 9's
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 05:26:58 PM
The X51 mainly interworks with the 997E's in Birmingham although do have some interworking with full 997's.
The 243/244 interworks which then interworks with the 276 on evenings.
West brom have the 82 and 87, 42 and 43, 45 and 46 interworks on nights, 47 and 49 interwork on nights, 74 and 75 interwork at times in Birmingham, 83 and 89 and the 127 and 128.
Wolverhampton have the 3, 4 and 6s on Sundays and 54 and 154.
Not sure on other garages. Obviously some running boards have journeys on other routes for example iirc X96/07 has/had a 256 on it(?) and 9/23(?) does the 3pm 205 followed by 9's
BC -
70 and 73 interwork in the day.
70 and 56 interwork in the evening and on Sundays.
22 and 23 interwork.
24 and 29 interwork evenings and Sundays.
58 and 59 interwork.
BY 55 and 55A interwork.
PB 52 and 52A interwork .
AG 71 and 72 interwork Monday - Saturday daytime
YW 76 and 49 intwework on Sundays.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on July 24, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
I've been wanting to ask this question for a while now and I didn't want to create a thread just for it so here goes. Exactly why do routes interwork ? I know what it is and routes that do it (e.g. X51/ 997 etc...) but I've just never understood from an operational perspective. My hunch is that if boards/ timetables are worked out correctly, it can reduce the Vehicle Requirement.
The reason routes inter work is this.
Imagine a route, we'll call it the number 10 (Birmingham to Narnia). The number 10 takes 90 minutes to do a round trip. The 10 runs every 60 minutes, so requires 2 vehicles. That means that after every round trip, the bus will be sitting for 30 minutes.
Now imagine there's another route, we'll call it the 11 (Birmingham to Timbucktoo). This route also runs every 60 minutes, and takes 90 minutes for a round trip. This route will need 2 buses. This route also has a 30 minute gap.
Now both routes 10 & 11 require 2 buses each giving a total of 4. Both of these routes have a 30 minute gap, so 60 minutes in total a bus is sitting at the terminus. The reason for inter working is to eliminate the bus parked up doing nothing and instead working another route. It basically saves the company wasting a bus for 30 minutes and paying a driver. They'd rather it be working somewhere else. By working out the timetable, we can interwork these two routes. So rather than having 60 minutes of sitting around, we can get rid of one bus. The new PVR for routes 10 & 11 is 3.
Quote from: MW on July 24, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
The reason routes inter work is this.
Imagine a route, we'll call it the number 10 (Birmingham to Narnia). The number 10 takes 90 minutes to do a round trip. The 10 runs every 60 minutes, so requires 2 vehicles. That means that after every round trip, the bus will be sitting for 30 minutes.
Now imagine there's another route, we'll call it the 11 (Birmingham to Timbucktoo). This route also runs every 60 minutes, and takes 90 minutes for a round trip. This route will need 2 buses. This route also has a 30 minute gap.
Now both routes 10 & 11 require 2 buses each giving a total of 4. Both of these routes have a 30 minute gap, so 60 minutes in total a bus is sitting at the terminus. The reason for inter working is to eliminate the bus parked up doing nothing and instead working another route. It basically saves the company wasting a bus for 30 minutes and paying a driver. They'd rather it be working somewhere else. By working out the timetable, we can interwork these two routes. So rather than having 60 minutes of sitting around, we can get rid of one bus. The new PVR for routes 10 & 11 is 3.
A nice, clear and concise explanation and exactly I was after.
Does that mean in theory if 2 routes sharing the same terminus (In or outbound) can be made to interwork ?
(If you ever done a lap on the 11 you'd feel as though you just went to Timbuktu :D )
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on July 24, 2016, 09:14:31 PM
Does that mean in theory if 2 routes sharing the same terminus (In or outbound) can be made to interwork ?
Could but only if it helps the company run the service better.
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 09:22:13 PM
Could but only if it helps the company run the service better.
I get it, I suppose the routes may require rescheduling but if it helps cut down on vehicles used (i.e. operational costs) no harm in trying I suppose,
Thanks Mate,
Quote from: 2206 on July 24, 2016, 06:09:05 PM
BC -
70 and 73 interwork in the day.
70 and 56 interwork in the evening and on Sundays.
22 and 23 interwork.
24 and 29 interwork evenings and Sundays.
58 and 59 interwork.
BC 61 and 63
45 and 47
Some evening journeys on the 98 and 99
Some evening journeys on the 98 and X64
I think it's changed now but a short while ago there was one evening board that saw the 99 become an X64 for one journey in the evening.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on July 24, 2016, 09:32:15 PM
I get it, I suppose the routes may require rescheduling but if it helps cut down on vehicles used (i.e. operational costs) no harm in trying I suppose,
Thanks Mate,
@GeminiFan1991 certainly that is the plan although not always.
Interworking is not new, when the Dudley bus review took place in 1976, it was around then.
for instance, the 294 with a PVR of 3 and a half hourly frequency and the 298 with a PVR of 1 and 1/2 hour frequency were initially run as seperate routes, however the 294 with a round trip time of 1 hour 27 minutes and the 298 with a round trip time of 27 minutes struggled for reliability.
So they interworked,
eg: 09:02 294 Stourbridge to Dudley & return 10:29
then 10:50 Stoubridge & Pedmore circular return 11:17
then 11:32 Stourbridge to Dudley.
However to do this the combined PVR had to be increased by 1 bus to 5!
Did the old 206 and 207 interwork?
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 10:04:28 PM
Did the old 206 and 207 interwork?
No I don't think they did, but am willing to be proved wrong on this one.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on July 24, 2016, 09:32:15 PM
I get it, I suppose the routes may require rescheduling but if it helps cut down on vehicles used (i.e. operational costs) no harm in trying I suppose,
Thanks Mate,
With inter working, there's always the problem of traffic. In my example earlier of the 10 & 11 routes. Say there was heavy traffic on the number 10, that would mean that the number 11 would get delayed despite having no traffic on that route.
Quote from: MW on July 24, 2016, 10:21:16 PM
With inter working, there's always the problem of traffic. In my example earlier of the 10 & 11 routes. Say there was heavy traffic on the number 10, that would mean that the number 11 would get delayed despite having no traffic on that route.
Thats just the same as having more than one route on a duty. If one fucks up badly then the other almost certainly will.
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 10:49:41 PM
Thats just the same as having more than one route on a duty. If one fucks up badly then the other almost certainly will.
But isn't that interworking anyway ? 2 routes on 1 board, unless you change boards (Didn't know that was possible) during your duty.
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 10:04:28 PM
Did the old 206 and 207 interwork?
No, they didn't interwork.
At some stages there gets to be some weird and wonderful interworking.
Pensnett once interworked the 243, 264 and 265 together.
Arriva did it once so the 229 would interwork with the 545 at Bilston which would then interwork with the 82 at Wolverhampton. Once the 82 got to Dudley it would then interwork with...the 208 to Merry Hill (And then do it all again in the opposite direction. What happy days they were!)
With The arriva one, my brother and I had a meeting once somewhere along the 82 route so what we did was boarded on the 82 segment and didn't alight until we got to Cradley Heath (swapping towards 141 behind!)
Quote from: Dom on July 24, 2016, 10:49:41 PM
Thats just the same as having more than one route on a duty. If one fucks up badly then the other almost certainly will.
Sorry you've just put what I've said in other words, haven't you?
If you mean, for example, at AG an early morning bus would take up service in Birmingham on the 5A to Solihull, then 37 all day till about 7-8pm, and then become a late night 31. In that scenario, when that bus goes onto another route is timed, for example, in the evening were the traffic would basically be non existent.
But yeah the con of interworking is obviously if one gets screwed, the other one probably will.
Quote from: MW on July 25, 2016, 03:28:56 AM
Sorry you've just put what I've said in other words, haven't you?
If you mean, for example, at AG an early morning bus would take up service in Birmingham on the 5A to Solihull, then 37 all day till about 7-8pm, and then become a late night 31. In that scenario, when that bus goes onto another route is timed, for example, in the evening were the traffic would basically be non existent.
But yeah the con of interworking is obviously if one gets screwed, the other one probably will.
I mean it in terms of individual drivers rather than running boards.
If yiur first part is say 1 trip on the 126 from 07:00 til 10:13, if you hit all the traffic in Birmingham and end up being down by 35-40 minutes and you have a 32 minute break when you get back before your second part you become RTA'd which then has a knock on effect if you have say the 32 or 33 afterwards as there is then a bus missing, and say the following 4 buses all suffer the same /similar delays and 2 of the 3
4 drivers have 32/33 afterwards with only a short break then they'll end up RTA'd so because the 126 is screwed it has a knock on effect on another route within quite a short space of time as you end up having buses missing and passengers unhappy.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on July 24, 2016, 10:57:36 PM
But isn't that interworking anyway ? 2 routes on 1 board, unless you change boards (Didn't know that was possible) during your duty.
That would depend on how you interpret interworking. For example (using made up services) you could do from midday until 7pm (break in between of course) on route 1, then your last trip could be a route 2 at 8pm even though route 2 is a standalone service on all other journeys.
I don't have any prime examples of any NX or Arriva ones, but I do have plenty of Stagecoach ones...
The old Duty 7 (or might be 8 ) used to do 55s Nuneaton - Coventry for the entire day, then when you finished your last 55 at Nuneaton, you did a 48 to Coventry and back then finished for the night.
Or there's the current 28 duty, you start off with a 48 branded E200 on an X48 from Hinckley to Nuneaton, then do a 9 to Stockingford and back, then go on to the 48 again and the bus stays on the 48 then. That's the only time a 48 bus is booked to do a 9 so the route as a whole doesn't interwork, but that specific journey does.
That is more of a pre 9am and post 3pm thing though and not the main daytime service. So it would depend entirely on your definition of "interworking" whether it include every individual service throughout the entire day/week or whether it just be main interworkings like the Walsall - Willenhall 37 and 41 Sunday example mentioned previously.
I hope I've made some sense there ??? ;D
Quote from: Ally on July 26, 2016, 11:50:59 PM
I don't have any prime examples of any NX or Arriva ones, but I do have plenty of Stagecoach ones...
The old Duty 7 (or might be 8 ) used to do 55s Nuneaton - Coventry for the entire day, then when you finished your last 55 at Nuneaton, you did a 48 to Coventry and back then finished for the night.
Or there's the current 28 duty, you start off with a 48 branded E200 on an X48 from Hinckley to Nuneaton, then do a 9 to Stockingford and back, then go on to the 48 again and the bus stays on the 48 then. That's the only time a 48 bus is booked to do a 9 so the route as a whole doesn't interwork, but that specific journey does.
That is more of a pre 9am and post 3pm thing though and not the main daytime service. So it would depend entirely on your definition of "interworking" whether it include every individual service throughout the entire day/week or whether it just be main interworkings like the Walsall - Willenhall 37 and 41 Sunday example mentioned previously.
I hope I've made some sense there ??? ;D
It sounds like stagecoach Warwickshire is similar to first in Worcester with inter working. A number of Worcester city routes are properly inter worked, for example the 33 and 36 where you leave city as a 33 and return from war don as a 36. The 34 and 37 is also interworked with the 33 and 36 on some duties. The x50 and 551 also interworked. Longer routes like 144 and 44 are mostly stand alone but late shifts may have a city route tagged on.
I guess with smaller places like Worcester and Nuneaton it is more practical to interworked than a larger city like Birmingham where more vehicles would be required.
Apologies for the shocking grammar! Predictive text is a nightmare!