http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/queens-speech-mayor-run-greater-11350245
"Greater Birmingham's new regional mayor will take over bus services when they are elected in 2017.
New laws giving the mayor the power to run buses were announced in the Queen's Speech, as the Government set out its plans for the year ahead.
Voters in Birmingham, Coventry, Sandwell, Walsall, Dudley, Solihull and Wolverhampton will elect a West Midlands Mayor in May 2017. The new mayor will lead a regional combined authority.
A mayor will decide how often buses should run, how much tickets should cost and even what the bus service should be called.
Private operators will then be invited to bid to run particular routes. While a number of different businesses may be involved, the mayor will be able to specify that the service operates as a single regional bus service, with a common brand name and colour scheme on every bus."
Will be interesting to see how this works out! In particular the burden to the tax-payer! Anyone who imagines that the first thing a new mayor will do is sit down and plan an entire new bus network from scratch will be clearly mis-guided!
Absolutely ridiculous... Time and time again, it's been proven that the most cost effective and passenger friendly way to provide transport is in a deregulated environment.
Saying that, Cornwall was given these powers but chose not to use them, hopefully the same will happen in most other places.
I am very sceptical about this new proposed 'Greater Birmingham' combined authority, and the role of this new elected mayor (there was a referendum a couple of years ago in Birmingham, and I voted 'no' to a directly elected mayor, which ended up being the outcome of the referendum).
The Birmingham Mail have painted this rosy picture of any new mayor sitting down and planning new bus routes and bus colours, but the truth is that this responsibility will no doubt be passed to some committee or already-elected body (a la Centro / Network West Midlands) to continue the work they have been doing, and therefore nothing will change.
Imposing a 'TFL-style' system on the West Midlands will (in my opinion) just lead to an increased burden on the tax-payer (especially those that don't use bus services) as public money will end up being used subsidising services that were otherwise successful while being fully commercially-operated, as well as funding cheap bus fares for all.
Quote from: Stu on May 18, 2016, 07:40:23 PM
I am very sceptical about this new proposed 'Greater Birmingham' combined authority, and the role of this new elected mayor (there was a referendum a couple of years ago in Birmingham, and I voted 'no' to a directly elected mayor, which ended up being the outcome of the referendum).
The Birmingham Mail have painted this rosy picture of any new mayor sitting down and planning new bus routes and bus colours, but the truth is that this responsibility will no doubt be passed to some committee or already-elected body (a la Centro / Network West Midlands) to continue the work they have been doing, and therefore nothing will change.
Imposing a 'TFL-style' system on the West Midlands will (in my opinion) just lead to an increased burden on the tax-payer (especially those that don't use bus services) as public money will end up being used subsidising services that were otherwise successful while being fully commercially-operated, as well as funding cheap bus fares for all.
You're right, a TfL style system would cost significantly more, Nexus said that's what they wanted then the powers that be said no to just that!
It'll be back to the bad old days of inefficiencies, fares too cheap, union gridlock (exactly as in France and Italy) and goodness knows what else.
I did think/hope?! the Conservative Party was against all this nonsense...
I personally don't like the idea of this at all!
The smaller, independent, bus companies could particularly feel the force of this causing lose of job on competitive routes and a Mayor with the power to "choose how often a bus runs" is a joke as particularly people who don't even now about public transport, i.e most MP's, will just guess things and just want buses for their constituency. No one acts like they are in it together in politics and battles over where buses should go with politics is only going to lower demand.
The 360 was a very poor, missed opportunity. If this proposed idea does go ahead... Would it of gone any differently???
I am not convinced it will work... What about those who may want to operate their own company when they are older... How will this affect them??
It is hardly broken. Multi Operator tickets are the way forward and this is hardly needed...
Quote from: Adam 404 on May 18, 2016, 07:55:08 PM
I personally don't like the idea of this at all!
The smaller, independent, bus companies could particularly feel the force of this causing lose of job on competitive routes and a Mayor with the power to "choose how often a bus runs" is a joke as particularly people who don't even now about public transport, i.e most MP's, will just guess things and just want buses for their constituency. No one acts like they are in it together in politics and battles over where buses should go with politics is only going to lower demand.
The 360 was a very poor, missed opportunity. If this proposed idea does go ahead... Would it of gone any differently???
I am not convinced it will work... What about those who may want to operate their own company when they are older... How will this affect them??
It is hardly broken. Multi Operator tickets are the way forward and this is hardly needed...
The perceived issue of ticketing dominance in the WM is being solved by Swift anyway, revenue going into that is increasing and passengers are getting more flexible because of it!
Oh wonderful - about to stick their oar in. If it's anything like Centro's organisation and foresight then it'll soon be reverted. Also would it not be typical that we finally get a decent NX livery and we lose it in favour of some bland thing...although I'm sure NX would protest about that I hope.
Living on a route which is supposedly contracted from Centro it doesn't make a bit of difference - in fact it's been far far worse since it passed out of NX hands.
So someone who probably hasn't caught a bus in years will be deciding how they're run. The whole idea seems ludicrous and I feel as though NX would be in put in a compromising position in terms of running of buses and if routes are taken off NX and given to other operators, theirs a risk of jobs potentially going.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-buses-bill
One main thing for this is...
"Some local authorities may want to introduce newly-integrated, uniformly branded networks of services just as you see in London.
Others will just want to build and improve on what's already there.
Whatever approach is chosen — and that will be a local decision — we want to ensure that bus operators and the wider supply chain have as much notice of change as possible.
And that the effects on small operators are considered properly.
In every case, local authorities will need to work closely with the operators in their area to manage the process in the best interest of passengers, particularly during periods of transition which will need to be handled with care."
For me also, there are question marks over who would actually own the buses, if they have to be in one uniform livery? If they're owned by the respective operators, who pays for the costs of repainting them into this uniform livery? And who pays for the costs of designing this said uniform livery?
As much as people are for re-regulation of bus services, at the end of the day, if private companies can commercially operate a network of bus services, at no cost to the tax-payer, funded by (reasonable) profits generated from passenger revenues, that can not be a bad thing can it? And does it really matter what colour the bus is, if it turns up on time (or near enough)?
Does this include every bus route, even the non-subsided ones?
I would dare say that operators would keep operating in their livery - I don't think NX would be keen to start repainting and refurbishing the fleet, again. Operators would retain their assets, including the buses. Looking at that bill, we already have the partnership which formed a few months ago (with only Diamond staying out) and we also have the open data - the fares, routes, timetables etc are all on Network West Midlands. We have the Swift card now which is growing in use. Really do we need any more intregration. I think the main focus now needs to be on the infrastructure, to help aid reliability - the latter one of the main things that passengers want and will notice!
I hope the Birmingham Mail is just putting out one of its inaccurate and exaggerated articles! Can the Mail not find a more recent picture... I'm sure it may just be a continuation of the current partnership, with further investment in new vehicles and perhaps better collobration rather than anything too drastic.
Quote from: Liberator9 on May 18, 2016, 08:29:59 PM
I hope the Birmingham Mail is just putting out one of its inaccurate and exaggerated articles! Can the Mail not find a more recent picture...
Going off-topic, but for a change the Mail can't really be blamed for the photo - it is taken from National Express Groups image library for the Media.
http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/image-library/
"Combined local authorities with elected mayors to have POWER to franchise local services" according to BBC website listing bills in Queens speech which NOT the same as they will undertake franchised operations.
The open data aspect could lead to the West Midlands Vehicle Finder save Tony having to answer what route is 3301 on today!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36320412&ved=0ahUKEwibrICHsOTMAhWKIMAKHbm3DhMQqG8IJjAD&usg=AFQjCNGfZBXXKhcLVleRklZLPhxkzgzExg
Quote from: notepanel on May 18, 2016, 08:43:29 PM
Going off-topic, but for a change the Mail can't really be blamed for the photo - it is taken from National Express Groups image library for the Media.
http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/image-library/
Ahh right - I apologise in that case!
Useful link JoNi - so it is only a possibility then. However I see standards of branding - so companies may just have to bear a logo for the Mayor or be to a certain specification...
Quote from: DiamondDart on May 18, 2016, 07:04:39 PM
Absolutely ridiculous... Time and time again, it's been proven that the most cost effective and passenger friendly way to provide transport is in a deregulated environment.
Hang on a minute, I need to climb back on my chair.
I'm not in favour of a Mayor running it however I cannot agree deregulation ends up with more efficient or more effective services, if many companies are all running routes as I see by me, and no one authority is providing guidance on it, it ends up with many services going to the same destination along the same road which is pointless, why would anyone get on a service that is less frequent and less direct when they have a more frequent and direct service on the same road? poor coordination between services of various companies and between Metro, bus and train, as all companies run on profit (and to be honest I see loads of services across the board low on passenger numbers going nowhere), they will not gain profit anyway. You have to run services for the benefit of users which will gain more profit in the long run. Clearly congestion is an issue as more drive cars and routes are taking longer, not necessarily the drivers fault or a company's fault, even the small bus routes every hour has hardly any passengers on but some of the routes are highly questionable and aren't maximising passengers numbers anyway. Any transport system for the public needs coordination else its a mess. I don't think a Mayor has the know how however to run an entire bus operation and I am sceptical of the Greater Birmingham Idea. But what companies do is compete rather than work together to cover areas effectively. Also the poorest people end up taking taxis due to poor bus services so profits will be down anyway, yet if companies looked at economics and target better services in poorer areas they will financially benefit, where currently the taxi firms are, but not adequately listening to passengers will be any bus operator's downfall.
In all honesty, I can't see a mayor making much of a difference unless he/she has radical ideas.
Centro, despite their faults, are doing quite a good job of ensuring a decent provision of public transport in the area, which is by discussion and negotiation with operators and working in partnership.
Can you imagine the uproar from the public if the mayor came along and changed numerous services. Not a recipe for their re-election in the future together with the big salary!!!
Apparently it's an alliance not a partnership nowadays!
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Queen_s_Speech_gives_clues_on_transport_changes
This link covers not only buses but modern transport bill as well -
Spaceships, drones, driverless cars no mention of Sprint...
Quote from: JoNi on May 19, 2016, 11:23:06 AM
Apparently it's an alliance not a partnership nowadays!
Thanks JoNi, I can't keep up with all the changes of terminology these days. :) Not long ago a partnership and today an alliance. I'm looking forward to the next term for the same thing!
Quote from: Stu on May 18, 2016, 06:42:33 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/queens-speech-mayor-run-greater-11350245
"Greater Birmingham's new regional mayor will take over bus services when they are elected in 2017.
New laws giving the mayor the power to run buses were announced in the Queen's Speech, as the Government set out its plans for the year ahead.
Voters in Birmingham, Coventry, Sandwell, Walsall, Dudley, Solihull and Wolverhampton will elect a West Midlands Mayor in May 2017. The new mayor will lead a regional combined authority.
A mayor will decide how often buses should run, how much tickets should cost and even what the bus service should be called.
Private operators will then be invited to bid to run particular routes. While a number of different businesses may be involved, the mayor will be able to specify that the service operates as a single regional bus service, with a common brand name and colour scheme on every bus."
Will be interesting to see how this works out! In particular the burden to the tax-payer! Anyone who imagines that the first thing a new mayor will do is sit down and plan an entire new bus network from scratch will be clearly mis-guided!
This is a terribly-written article and the work of someone who either has not paid enough attention to what was said, or simply does not understand it.
The suggestion that the elected Mayor will by default control bus services in the West Midlands is wrong. It is absolutely and utterly wrong. The powers to do so are indeed there for elected Mayors to use should they choose, but there is no suggestion that it will happen in the West Midlands. The reporter would have discovered this had he bothered to ask Centro's media people. There are two reasons for this: Partnership is working reasonably well and has delivered some significant benefits on some routes already, and moreover, the question of where the money would come from to 'franchise' services has no answer because there is no money to pay for it.
The writer of the Mail article has not a clue what he is talking about. He has put two and two together and got about 10 as a result, and the piece should be disregarded.
Quote from: barry619 on May 19, 2016, 06:56:47 PM
This is a terribly-written article and the work of someone who either has not paid enough attention to what was said, or simply does not understand it.
The suggestion that the elected Mayor will by default control bus services in the West Midlands is wrong. It is absolutely and utterly wrong. The powers to do so are indeed there for elected Mayors to use should they choose, but there is no suggestion that it will happen in the West Midlands. The reporter would have discovered this had he bothered to ask Centro's media people. There are two reasons for this: Partnership is working reasonably well and has delivered some significant benefits on some routes already, and moreover, the question of where the money would come from to 'franchise' services has no answer because there is no money to pay for it.
The writer of the Mail article has not a clue what he is talking about. He has put two and two together and got about 10 as a result, and the piece should be disregarded.
I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately you only have to look at the comments on Birmingham Mail's Facebook page to understand the mentality of the people they are trying to appeal to with their badly worded and factually inaccurate articles, especially those concerning buses and public transport! :(
http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/blog/better-transport/queens-speech-dont-be-distracted-driverless-cars
The Campaign for better transport's take on it all.
Quote from: Stu on May 19, 2016, 08:26:56 PM
I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately you only have to look at the comments on Birmingham Mail's Facebook page to understand the mentality of the people they are trying to appeal to with their badly worded and factually inaccurate articles, especially those concerning buses and public transport! :(
Absolutely. Given that the average poster on most local rags' websites/Facebook pages seems to think that a vote to leave the EU will see every non-British citizen in the UK summarily deported the day after the referendum, I doubt that many/any of them have any concept of how buses work anyway. In fact, I wonder how many of them are actually able to dress themselves in a morning.
Nevertheless, that the Birmingham Mail could publish such ill-informed, inaccurate claptrap is still rather worrying.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/92409298@N06/712327
Within the last couple of days I've seen EU referendum adverts beginning to appear on station electronic information signs! Seen here tonight at Rugby!