http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Manley-Summers-LTD/jobs/Pcv-Bus-Driver-a3804405ef2e40cb?q=Pcv+Driver
Came across this today. £11 an hour? I was getting £9.50ish when I was there. I know it's through an agency, but £11 an hour seems like they are desperate?
Interesting
It would appear to be an ongoing industry problem,when I worked at NXWM 11 years ago they were nearly always short of drivers and yet still continued to sack people at an alarming rate.
Quote from: 4747 on March 02, 2016, 07:18:42 AM
It would appear to be an ongoing industry problem,when I worked at NXWM 11 years ago they were nearly always short of drivers and yet still continued to sack people at an alarming rate.
Not being funny, but you have to do something really bad to get sacked these days. Forced out maybe but as a business your not going to keep peeps on if they are not performing etc.
MW, one of me mates is at Perry Barr through agency , we used to work together at Hockley he's on £11 pound an hour ,travel expenses, but the downside is 10 hour days and no will swop a duty with you either.
Monkey joe are you a driver , I,m sorry your statement is utter crap just ask MW what happened to him,I know from first hand what's going on, I know of number of drivers who were dismissed by the company, go on and take there cases to unfair dismissal tribunal you be surprised at the numbers. I know one driver while his case was being reviewed he drove for diamond, when he won his case he came back and got back pay, fair play to him for fighting his battle.
There's a steady stream of rookies coming through west brom at the moment , I heard one comment from a buddy driver about one of them his/hers driving was shocking God only how he/she got through Walsall.
The reality now of the job it eh worth it for £9.50 an hour, I have family and friends urging me to leave the job. The job was still ok up to mid 2000 , from talking to some who have joined recently , only here for a bit , passing time, it eh nothing like how Walsall painted it, no shit Sherlock they never gona tell you about Dudley rd and the others they would rather sweep that under the carpet.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 02, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
Not being funny, but you have to do something really bad to get sacked these days. Forced out maybe but as a business your not going to keep peeps on if they are not performing etc.
Actually that comment is rather funny. I still have friends at West Brom and other garages(inc the training centre) and all they all say the same thing regards sackings. I still work in the industry so I'm not just spouting what I've heard drivers moaning about on the bus station.
Ahh you get the s**t duties then. That explains it like lol. Sounds like the 12 hour spread duties with a long break
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 02, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
Not being funny, but you have to do something really bad to get sacked these days. Forced out maybe but as a business your not going to keep peeps on if they are not performing etc.
Do something really bad?! Look at
@MW sacked because of not being able to see out of his wing mirror so he mentioned it to the inspector!!
When will these people get it? You will never get decent, committed, loyal or caring staff while you are paying everyone different rates for the same job. And now they are paying people who don't even go onto the books more than those who do. Genius. It's a wonder they have any staff atall.
Agency staff generally always attract a higher rate and this is rarely set by the receiving company.
Quote from: 646 on March 02, 2016, 05:36:40 PM
Agency staff generally always attract a higher rate and this is rarely set by the receiving company.
I'm aware of that. I worked in the Haulage sector for years working with agencies. But that means nothing to the people getting paid £2 per hour less for exactly the same job.
In the Haulage sector you can differenciate with premium work, additional duties at delivery points, multiple drops etc and justify different rates. In PCV everyone is driving the same buses on the same routes with the same responsibilities. It doesn't work.
Quote from: WN on March 02, 2016, 03:07:36 PM
Do something really bad?! Look at @MW sacked because of not being able to see out of his wing mirror so he mentioned it to the inspector!!
What? That has surely got to be bullshit??????!
I don't have to be a driver to know that that people will moan in any industry, it's what people do.
Quote from: andy41 on March 02, 2016, 07:00:27 PM
In PCV everyone is driving the same buses on the same routes with the same responsibilities. It doesn't work.
But it does work for the management.
Divide and rule is the oldest trick in the book. After the initial relief of getting a job, the realities of the job start to dawn, together with the resentment of feeling second class because you can never catch up to a top-rate driver, no matter how conscientious you are and what a lead swinger he is. Lower-rate drivers will thus vote against anything that will disadvantage them in favour of higher-rate drivers, and vice-versa for high rate drivers to maintain differentials and their own superiority. The more rates, the more division, and the resulting bad feeling creates disunity among the drivers. No-one has the desire or stomach for an all-out strike nowadays as there is too much to lose. Management attitude is if you don't like what we do, there's the door. If experienced people leave they can be replaced at lower cost. If low-rate drivers leave, well, a few lost is worth the gains. The use of agency staff proves they can afford to pay more. Until it change this approach, which is very common in the industry, it will always be short of drivers, who can in turn be blamed for not wanting the overtime, whether that is true or not.
Yes, people will moan in any industry, but these guys get it from every direction. They have plenty to moan about.
Quote from: Tiptonian on March 02, 2016, 10:28:17 PM
But it does work for the management.
Divide and rule is the oldest trick in the book. After the initial relief of getting a job, the realities of the job start to dawn, together with the resentment of feeling second class because you can never catch up to a top-rate driver, no matter how conscientious you are and what a lead swinger he is. Lower-rate drivers will thus vote against anything that will disadvantage them in favour of higher-rate drivers, and vice-versa for high rate drivers to maintain differentials and their own superiority. The more rates, the more division, and the resulting bad feeling creates disunity among the drivers. No-one has the desire or stomach for an all-out strike nowadays as there is too much to lose. Management attitude is if you don't like what we do, there's the door. If experienced people leave they can be replaced at lower cost. If low-rate drivers leave, well, a few lost is worth the gains. The use of agency staff proves they can afford to pay more. Until it change this approach, which is very common in the industry, it will always be short of drivers, who can in turn be blamed for not wanting the overtime, whether that is true or not.
Yes, people will moan in any industry, but these guys get it from every direction. They have plenty to moan about.
It doesn't prove they can afford to pay more at all. By simply comparing hourly rates of pay between staff & agency it isn't like for like, NX will not have to pay agency staff holiday pay, sick pay or NI employer contributions for starters on top of the hourly rate they pay their own drivers as they are not their staff.
Agency staff are generally a short term solution to cover for shortages and can be finished at a short notice.
Quote from: Winston on March 02, 2016, 10:38:40 PM
By simply comparing hourly rates of pay between staff & agency it isn't like for like, NX will not have to pay agency staff holiday pay, sick pay or NI employer contributions for starters on top of the hourly rate they pay their own drivers as they are not their staff.
Agency staff are generally a short term solution to cover for shortages and can be finished at a short notice.
True, it is not like for like. NX would have to pay the agency considerably
more than the hourly rate received by the agency driver to cover the agency employee costs and profits. If it did not cost considerably more, they would use agency drivers more to cover such things as holidays and short-term requirements.
Quote from: Winston on March 02, 2016, 10:38:40 PM
Agency staff are generally a short term solution to cover for shortages and can be finished at a short notice.
That's what they said in Haulage 20 years ago Winston and the job still runs on Agency and short term contracts with no terms or conditions.
I genuinely never thought it would happen to buses, but here we are,
Any company that builds its operation around short term agency staff will soon start to feel the damage that this policy causes in the long term.
Quote from: Tiptonian on March 02, 2016, 10:28:17 PM
But it does work for the management.
Divide and rule is the oldest trick in the book. After the initial relief of getting a job, the realities of the job start to dawn, together with the resentment of feeling second class because you can never catch up to a top-rate driver, no matter how conscientious you are and what a lead swinger he is. Lower-rate drivers will thus vote against anything that will disadvantage them in favour of higher-rate drivers, and vice-versa for high rate drivers to maintain differentials and their own superiority. The more rates, the more division, and the resulting bad feeling creates disunity among the drivers. No-one has the desire or stomach for an all-out strike nowadays as there is too much to lose. Management attitude is if you don't like what we do, there's the door. If experienced people leave they can be replaced at lower cost. If low-rate drivers leave, well, a few lost is worth the gains. The use of agency staff proves they can afford to pay more. Until it change this approach, which is very common in the industry, it will always be short of drivers, who can in turn be blamed for not wanting the overtime, whether that is true or not.
Yes, people will moan in any industry, but these guys get it from every direction. They have plenty to moan about.
when I started it was £4.95 an hour I think back then which wasn't to bad when you compare the bills of today. We were told you will never see top rate, due to severe shortage of drivers then management backed down eventually and offered market rate drivers top rate through a 5 year rate of progression, quite a few left because of it because couldn't stomach another 5 years, it meant at the time some drivers would have done 13 years service on market rate. Drivers who are coming into the job today seem to forget we,ve put years in to get top rate. From personal point of view I never agree to any pay deal because we all know they can pay more, for me now personally top rate doesn't mean shit I just want to do something where I can be treated as a person, I don't what it is as soon as get in that cab you become dehumanised some how.
Quote from: 2900 on March 03, 2016, 10:27:00 AM
when I started it was £4.95 an hour I think back then which wasn't to bad when you compare the bills of today. We were told you will never see top rate, due to severe shortage of drivers then management backed down eventually and offered market rate drivers top rate through a 5 year rate of progression, quite a few left because of it because couldn't stomach another 5 years, it meant at the time some drivers would have done 13 years service on market rate. Drivers who are coming into the job today seem to forget we,ve put years in to get top rate. From personal point of view I never agree to any pay deal because we all know they can pay more, for me now personally top rate doesn't mean shit I just want to do something where I can be treated as a person, I don't what it is as soon as get in that cab you become dehumanised some how.
What job would pay the same though without being forced to do 50hours a week?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on March 03, 2016, 10:46:45 AM
What job would pay the same though without being forced to do 50hours a week?
The bottom line is we deserve a decent pay rise, not a poultry pay rise year after year.
There are plenty of jobs that pay the same, but don't have the responsibility of driving hundreds of people around every day safely, that don't force you to inhale cigarettes or drugs, deal with drunks, irate passengers.
Quote from: Bham Central Driver on March 03, 2016, 12:38:40 PM
The bottom line is we deserve a decent pay rise, not a poultry pay rise year after year.
There are plenty of jobs that pay the same, but don't have the responsibility of driving hundreds of people around every day safely, that don't force you to inhale cigarettes or drugs, deal with drunks, irate passengers.
here here I agree , as I ,ve said on another thread I,m prepaid to take a cut in pay, just so I don't have to deal with the cattle. I currently earn £72 for a duty after tax,stoppages etc average duty compass at west brom is 8hrs 45 mins So that's works to be £8.52 an hr , that drops even further on split duty. Your average joe thinks bus drivers earn fortunes you can if your prepared to live at at garage live and breathe diesel fumes. There are plenty of those types at every garage ,some of these guys don't understand the abuse given to them , they come to me and say this was said to me what does it mean, these guys laugh it off where as I wanna use a baseball bat. Fun an games
I think there are people who probably have it a lot worse than bus drivers and probably get treated a lot worse. Like I say everyone needs to get stuff of their chest I suppose.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 03, 2016, 06:43:41 PM
I think there are people who probably have it a lot worse than bus drivers and probably get treated a lot worse. Like I say everyone needs to get stuff of their chest I suppose.
With unsociable hours, weekend working, split shifts, low pay, anti-social behaviour, horrendous traffic and the shocking driving and parking behaviour of many road users, I can think of few jobs I'd less rather do.
Quote from: Mike K on March 03, 2016, 07:10:13 PM
With unsociable hours, weekend working, split shifts, low pay, anti-social behaviour, horrendous traffic and the shocking driving and parking behaviour of many road users, I can think of few jobs I'd less rather do.
You should try working at Amazon ! The 10 hour shifts are remarkably tiring not to mention you get policed and hassled if your not hitting your "rates"
I personally still enjoy the job for the most part. Been in nearly five years. Enjoy driving anyway so that's a bonus. I engage with the passengers wherever possible, makes the day go a bit quicker. Take my time in the traffic, if that car wants to go in front that's fine, I'll take a timed ticket thanks very much! I don't check fares or tickets that's what Revenue are for - saves a whole load of stress!
Quote from: AndrewLee on March 03, 2016, 07:48:53 PM
I personally still enjoy the job for the most part. Been in nearly five years. Enjoy driving anyway so that's a bonus. I engage with the passengers wherever possible, makes the day go a bit quicker. Take my time in the traffic, if that car wants to go in front that's fine, I'll take a timed ticket thanks very much! I don't check fares or tickets that's what Revenue are for - saves a whole load of stress!
im the same though you can still get abuse! The amount of threats ive received by people not realising the x51 doesn't stop at one stop is amusing!
Quote from: BU07 LGO on March 03, 2016, 09:16:46 PM
im the same though you can still get abuse! The amount of threats ive received by people not realising the x51 doesn't stop at one stop is amusing!
Or Newtown!
Quote from: P419 EJW on March 03, 2016, 09:20:29 PM
Or Newtown!
Had one today saying he was going to kill me for not stopping at one stop haha!
Quote from: BU07 LGO on March 03, 2016, 09:31:54 PM
Had one today saying he was going to kill me for not stopping at one stop haha!
Lmfao. He should have checked which bus he boarded on! But then again, who doesn't? ::)
Have on the front sides non stop from brum to alexendt stadium on the x51 but would they still see it or have it when u board
Quote from: BU07 LGO on March 03, 2016, 09:16:46 PM
im the same though you can still get abuse! The amount of threats ive received by people not realising the x51 doesn't stop at one stop is amusing!
Yeah still get some abuse. But I don't carry it with me.
Anyway, how many times has a driver said " the jobs shit" "I hate it" ?
I ask them how long they've been doing it - "20 years" they say.
If it's that bad then leave.
Quote from: 2900 on March 02, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
There's a steady stream of rookies coming through west brom at the moment , I heard one comment from a buddy driver about one of them his/hers driving was shocking God only how he/she got through Walsall.
The reality now of the job it eh worth it for £9.50 an hour, I have family and friends urging me to leave the job. The job was still ok up to mid 2000 , from talking to some who have joined recently , only here for a bit , passing time, it eh nothing like how Walsall painted it, no shit Sherlock they never gona tell you about Dudley rd and the others they would rather sweep that under the carpet.
Interesting how things change, back in the late 80s / early 90s at Quinton the Dudley Road (only 82) was the rota to be on. 15 minute frequency, 30 minutes from Bus Station to New Street and 27 minutes back to Bearwood with 17 minute layovers at Bearwood Bus Station with regular re-fuelling at Mr. Cross' café. Plenty of running boards were allocated Fleetlines with no security screens. When vacancies came up they were allocated to longest serving driver who put in a bid to transfer from another rota or two drivers could agree to swop rotas. Can't remember anybody transferring off DR, you retired off there. One driver, who at the time was fairly new to the job, and is still driving got one of the longest serving drivers to fill the vacancy on the Dudley Road rota and basically paid him to do a swop rota (which didn't happen of course). I quite often swapped a week of late nights with one of the Sikh drivers on DR just to get a week on Dudley Road. Free guaranteed parking in the yard through the gates into Lightswood Park, behind where the current 82 stop is. Wouldn't want to do it today, mind you!
A driver back in the days was a highly respected job, many of us had to pay for our own license to get in as that was the only way. Once in you had free shares allocated and had the option of joining a share scheme that rolled out every three years, must say because of this we are in a financially secure position today. But now it's just a paying job like any other with everyone wanting to take there frustration out on the driver from passengers to other road users, even if your standing on the footpath in uniform you have kids throwing objects at you, I guess it's just the way society is today.
AG are definetley low on drivers it says something when they have the dundee drivers back here and put up in the westley hotel and food expenses. !
Quote from: fleetline6477 on March 03, 2016, 10:41:00 PM
Interesting how things change, back in the late 80s / early 90s at Quinton the Dudley Road (only 82) was the rota to be on. 15 minute frequency, 30 minutes from Bus Station to New Street and 27 minutes back to Bearwood with 17 minute layovers at Bearwood Bus Station with regular re-fuelling at Mr. Cross' café. Plenty of running boards were allocated Fleetlines with no security screens. When vacancies came up they were allocated to longest serving driver who put in a bid to transfer from another rota or two drivers could agree to swop rotas. Can't remember anybody transferring off DR, you retired off there. One driver, who at the time was fairly new to the job, and is still driving got one of the longest serving drivers to fill the vacancy on the Dudley Road rota and basically paid him to do a swop rota (which didn't happen of course). I quite often swapped a week of late nights with one of the Sikh drivers on DR just to get a week on Dudley Road. Free guaranteed parking in the yard through the gates into Lightswood Park, behind where the current 82 stop is. Wouldn't want to do it today, mind you!
when Hockley garage closed the 82 transferred to west brom in 2005 , the 82 was placed on its own rota excellent dutys, one hour travelling time , metrobus operated on the whole, one driver paid me £30 to cover his late night dutys, during the summer during breaks I would go into light woods park eat my sandwiches then treat myself to a fresh 99 from the ice cream van,all good, the journeys times were hopeless we would run in convoy regularly amusing as hell when you had 5/6 going one way , the gawps from joe public amusing to. Back when I first started I didn't care about running times I use to leave bearwood 6/7 minutes late boot it to new st then boot it back to bearwood arrive early very nice drop backs. Do that today and your gone.
Quote from: Jaysnerz007 on March 04, 2016, 10:02:54 AM
AG are definitely low on drivers it says something when they have the dundee drivers back here and put up in the westley hotel and food expenses. !
driver shortage, company tries every thing to cover mileage bringing drivers from other garages or from across the land, in 2004 they flew in Polish drivers by the plane load and most of them have long gone on to the trucks after what many described the job as bullshit , clearly there is an issue to be addressed on retention.
Quote from: AndrewLee on March 03, 2016, 10:16:05 PM
Yeah still get some abuse. But I don't carry it with me.
Anyway, how many times has a driver said " the jobs shit" "I hate it" ?
I ask them how long they've been doing it - "20 years" they say.
If it's that bad then leave.
i,m one, you get used to the routine , as my mate says to me you,ve become institutionalised because I,ve been in one job far to long. When my mate pointed it out I thought omg he's right , life is passing me by . I,m thinking life is to short for this nonsense, I,m still young enough to try new things.
Quote from: Bham Central Driver on March 03, 2016, 12:38:40 PM
The bottom line is we deserve a decent pay rise, not a poultry pay rise year after year.
There are plenty of jobs that pay the same, but don't have the responsibility of driving hundreds of people around every day safely, that don't force you to inhale cigarettes or drugs, deal with drunks, irate passengers.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing there; I guess I meant what bus company would pay the same?
Diamond is some shitty rate for 45+ hours a week, Johnsons is 50hrs, and other operators are the usual shit minimum wage and exploitation. That isn't to say other, bigger companies don't exploit workers...
Just some food for thoughts
Quote from: Liverpool Street on March 04, 2016, 08:58:59 PM
Oh, I'm not disagreeing there; I guess I meant what bus company would pay the same?
Diamond is some shitty rate for 45+ hours a week, Johnsons is 50hrs, and other operators are the usual shit minimum wage and exploitation. That isn't to say other, bigger companies don't exploit workers...
Just some food for thoughts
When I was at Diamond (2 days and they didn't pay me lol), the drivers were wishing for Stagecoach to take over. Something like £11 an hour I think it was, with less hours is their rate.
Quote from: MW on March 04, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
When I was at Diamond (2 days and they didn't pay me lol), the drivers were wishing for Stagecoach to take over. Something like £11 an hour I think it was, with less hours is their rate.
Where are you working now and is it true about the nature of your dismissal?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on March 04, 2016, 11:00:53 PM
Where are you working now and is it true about the nature of your dismissal?
Oh nah I'm not working at the moment. Just chilling for a bit.
Yeah the dismissal is true, although they worded it to make it sound bad, I.e insubordination and not following the inspectors instructions, because he told me to drive. The head engineer also said the vehicle was fit for service. So all that stacked up against me. And I was on my probation period because I wasn't at the company for long. I did take photos of the mirror which are on the forum somewhere. In my opinion, the inspector and head engineer tried to belittle me when they came to the vehicle and there were about 7 other drivers there. They were talking to me like a retard and I put them both in there place complying with the company rules, quoting Dean Finch, when he bangs on about safety, and how it's not safe when I can't see the nearside of the vehicle. It was also due to the position of my driving position which contributed to not seeing the mirror as I was sitting in the lowest and furtherst position due to my height. The inspector was a midget and the engineer didn't even sit in the bus. Basically they were heard saying we want this guy suspended by another engineer who happened to be a friend of mine. So they got there way. In my dismissal meeting, the acting operation manager and the assistant refused to join me where the buses were parked and see for themselves. All they did was ask the head engineer who said yes the vehicle was fit for service. Furthermore the union rep has raised the wing mirror issue on the Geminis many times. I'd also refused to drive certain Geminis many times before as other drivers have, so the company knew this was an issue. Personally I think I hurt the inspectors and head engineers ego who used there persuasion to get rid of me.
@MW , I'm sorry to hear you've lost your job though. Did you appeal?
How tall are you? It is obvious that people of different height will see the mirror differently.
Honestly they need to reinstate the metrobus standard mirrors or whatever they're called. And not those stupid big arms. Accident waiting to happen.
All in all a stupid reason for dismissal.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on March 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
@MW , I'm sorry to hear you've lost your job though. Did you appeal?
How tall are you? It is obvious that people of different height will see the mirror differently.
Honestly they need to reinstate the metrobus standard mirrors or whatever they're called. And not those stupid big arms. Accident waiting to happen.
All in all a stupid reason for dismissal.
I'm 6ft 2, so not way above average height, so other drivers also complained of this. They also said in my meeting that all the Geminis are fitted with the exact same wing mirror arms which is lies. This wasn't included on the minutes for the meeting. The union rep also recalled them saying that all are the same but wasn't willing to "testify" when I called them to it when presenting my evidence. Pathetic tbh.
They did offer me my job back after they dismissed me, but not on writing. The area manager for South Birmingham offered it (AG/YW), but I didn't take it. I might go back however, I'm starting to miss blasting the Geminis around lol.
MW, I can see your point about the mirrors, there aren't to many drivers that stand there ground fair play to you for doing so, try raising your point with HSE they probably back you, nx are skating on thin ice with them after what happened at Walsall, that's one of reasons you now see a whole raft of safety measures implemented through out the company. Best one no farting in cabs excess pollution.
Any way by the sounds of it your rep is weak, I have used the union chap from Liverpool st to help me he's good. So they offered you a job back basically management full of shit then nothing new there just demonstrating there superiority over you. Are you taking time out from studies or am I confusing you with some one else. I remember you saying you saying you wished to the drive the enviro 400s try yardley wood what's the worst that can happen getting canned so what, no doubt they,ll offer you your job back, I suppose being on starter rate has its up sides I definitely wouldn't give a shit drive with freedom.
I should have mentioned this when the story initially came out but I feel for MW here. He clearly made the right choice in not wanting to drive the vehicle as it was hardly fit for purpose. Had he went ahead and drove the bus, it would have been a clear threat to anyone else on the road as he would endangering others and I can't help but think that might be case from NX if he went ahead and drove and the next driver reported that.
It's sad we don't have someone who tells us some AG news but oh well. Good Luck in finding a new job mate.
Quote from: MW on March 05, 2016, 03:10:31 AM
I'm 6ft 2, so not way above average height, so other drivers also complained of this. They also said in my meeting that all the Geminis are fitted with the exact same wing mirror arms which is lies. This wasn't included on the minutes for the meeting. The union rep also recalled them saying that all are the same but wasn't willing to "testify" when I called them to it when presenting my evidence. Pathetic tbh.
They did offer me my job back after they dismissed me, but not on writing. The area manager for South Birmingham offered it (AG/YW), but I didn't take it. I might go back however, I'm starting to miss blasting the Geminis around lol.
Go for YW, you can blast a lot more buses around lol.