NX potentially going greener......
we're bidding for several million pounds of funding for four innovations:
Retro-fitting 200 older buses with 'traps' which reduce local air pollution
Ensuring every new bus we buy from now on is a "smart electric", which is clever technology on a diesel engine to reduce fuel use and emissions
Buying 60 fully electric buses (ie they don't run on diesel at all) for use in the Black Country and Birmingham
Buying 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses to run in Solihull and Birmingham
We'll find out in a few months if this funding bid has been successful, and I'll keep everyone posted on when to look out for these future technologies
20 hydrogen buses in Solihull ?
Why doesn't NX relieve Diamond of thier Signature work, in all honesty.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 01, 2015, 01:53:44 AM
20 hydrogen buses in Solihull ?
Why doesn't NX relieve Diamond of thier Signature work, in all honesty.
That'd be good thing. It'd all presumably go to AG which would be interesting, and allow some interesting route moves across BC/YW/AG. It'd probably also mean a new vehicle type at AG. Thinking about it, it'd probably mean E200s, so it's probably best not to happen overall based on what you guys say about E200s!
Interesting to hear - the Electrics carefully managed would very handy - I know some areas that use pure electric buses and they build it into the running boards to allow them to charge up. Good acceleration too. Will be interesting if NX try for any of the Signature contracts when they come up next time.
Those few hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in use so far are always full size single deckers, so you'd expect AG to use them on the 37 or 71/72. I hope the 'smart electric' on diesels isn't just another name for an acceleration limiter.
I'm surprised the ADL Gas bus isn't being considered, Reading seem to rate them & have built up a fleet of 34 of them:
http://www.scania.co.uk/products/buses-coaches/bus-range/scania-adl-e300/
Quote from: pndriver on November 01, 2015, 12:10:19 AM
NX potentially going greener......
we're bidding for several million pounds of funding for four innovations:
Retro-fitting 200 older buses with 'traps' which reduce local air pollution
Ensuring every new bus we buy from now on is a "smart electric", which is clever technology on a diesel engine to reduce fuel use and emissions
Buying 60 fully electric buses (ie they don't run on diesel at all) for use in the Black Country and Birmingham
Buying 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses to run in Solihull and Birmingham
We'll find out in a few months if this funding bid has been successful, and I'll keep everyone posted on when to look out for these future technologies
The councillor for Bearwood will be pleased ;D ;D ;D
will the new buses have wi fi like the decker's on the fast routes
Quote from: Solo1 on November 03, 2015, 03:57:50 PM
will the new buses have wi fi like the decker's on the fast routes
The above buses aren't on order, they are bidding for funding only at this stage
Approximately how long will the batteries last for on these 'all electric buses'
Optare Versa Electrics can go for around 5 1/2hours in service - then they need around 25 minutes charging before being able to run another 5 hours approx. It depends on the route - no hills, relatively flat with around 5 minutes layover time at the terminus.
Quote from: pndriver on November 01, 2015, 12:10:19 AM
NX potentially going greener......
we're bidding for several million pounds of funding for four innovations:
Retro-fitting 200 older buses with 'traps' which reduce local air pollution
Ensuring every new bus we buy from now on is a "smart electric", which is clever technology on a diesel engine to reduce fuel use and emissions
Buying 60 fully electric buses (ie they don't run on diesel at all) for use in the Black Country and Birmingham
Buying 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses to run in Solihull and Birmingham
We'll find out in a few months if this funding bid has been successful, and I'll keep everyone posted on when to look out for these future technologies
If all this is allegedly for money from the government's ongoing low emission bus scheme, then it will take a lot more than 'several million pounds' to satisfy all of the above. It would need about a hundred million pounds, and the government has only made available £30m in total.
The LEB scheme is also weighted heavily towards the VFM aspect of any bid and how likely an application is to foster technology which will be commercially viable on a stand alone basis in the future. Fuel cell doesn't have a hope of getting anything out of the LEB scheme because it's so outrageously expensive.
Quote from: Winston on November 03, 2015, 05:24:14 PM
The above buses aren't on order, they are bidding for funding only at this stage
I know but if they get the money will they have wi fi is what I was asking
Quote from: Solo1 on November 04, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
I know but if they get the money will they have wi fi is what I was asking
Wi Fi is a luxury and I reckon it'll be exclusive for the Platinums
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on November 04, 2015, 10:07:46 PM
Wi Fi is a luxury and I reckon it'll be exclusive for the Platinums
Coventrys ex wa enviro 400 have wifi :)
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on November 04, 2015, 10:07:46 PM
Wi Fi is a luxury and I reckon it'll be exclusive for the Platinums
the 11, 11U, 12X, 54 and 154 have wifi and they are not Platinum
Apparently all NXWM buses have WiFi, which makes sense. For the data on the ticket machines.
Surprised no one has mentioned this, Birmingham has funding for 27 buses to have their emissions lowered plus a further 123 will be locally funded. I assume this will be 150 deckers in central Birmingham that would otherwise not be Euro4 by next January?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35217026
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/487583/clean-bus-technology-fund-projects-2015.pdf
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 03, 2016, 07:04:57 PM
Surprised no one has mentioned this, Birmingham has funding for 27 buses to have their emissions lowered plus a further 123 will be locally funded. I assume this will be 150 deckers in central Birmingham that would otherwise not be Euro4 by next January?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35217026
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/487583/clean-bus-technology-fund-projects-2015.pdf
The original bid was for 200 buses to be retro-fitted with Eminox traps to reduce emissions
I assume this is why BC is receiving an increasing number of 54 plate Tridents
Slightly reduced from what they bid for then. I guess it's not worth converting anything much older than 11 years old, especially if some of the work is being funded by NX? Depending on what "locally funded" means Centro/Birmingham City Council/National Express.
Just surprised London's getting funding, it's fleet is already very modern and gets replaced through tendering. Think the funding for 50 buses being upgraded would be better spent outside London!
I expect 'locally funded' means the funding will come from Bus Alliance partners, namely NX.
No, I doubt you would re-coup the investment on Eminox Euro 6 traps on anything older than 54 plate, additionally Central Birmingham routes can't all be converted to min Euro 4 deckers as that would be at the expense of non Central Birmingham routes.
50 London buses being converted is hardly going to make a noticeable impact, I agree the funding would have been better allocated elsewhere
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 03, 2016, 07:35:42 PM
Slightly reduced from what they bid for then. I guess it's not worth converting anything much older than 11 years old, especially if some of the work is being funded by NX? Depending on what "locally funded" means Centro/Birmingham City Council/National Express.
Just surprised London's getting funding, it's fleet is already very modern and gets replaced through tendering. Think the funding for 50 buses being upgraded would be better spent outside London!
Maybe for the PBs Geminis and some of the 02/52/03 tridents?
Quote from: Winston on January 03, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
I expect 'locally funded' means the funding will come from Bus Alliance partners, namely NX.
No, I doubt you would re-coup the investment on Eminox Euro 6 traps on anything older than 54 plate, additionally Central Birmingham routes can't all be converted to min Euro 4 deckers as that would be at the expense of non Central Birmingham routes.
50 London buses being converted is hardly going to make a noticeable impact, I agree the funding would have been better allocated elsewhere
I assumed as much, I'd predict 18 WB 06 Gem's will be done, 31 04/54 BC tridents, 30 BC 03 tridents, 15 PE 03 tridents, 33 PB Gem's which makes about 127 on very rough calculations then the balance as AG Gem's that work in on city centre services.
NX announcement:
http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/news-across-the-group/2016/funding-secured-to-upgrade-150-buses-with-clean-air-technology/
Not related to above post; Noticed yesterday, on the rear of 6104 in particular - that another sticker is on the scene. On the right hand side of the rear, seems to have a circular crimson sticker with the text "Greener Emissions," and underneath it, "Euro 6" - or at least something along those lines...
Quote from: clayderman on January 07, 2016, 03:58:37 PM
Not related to above post; Noticed yesterday, on the rear of 6104 in particular - that another sticker is on the scene. On the right hand side of the rear, seems to have a circular crimson sticker with the text "Greener Emissions," and underneath it, "Euro 6" - or at least something along those lines...
The E200 MMC also have that.
Why not use a media photograph of a bus actually to Euro6 standards, in the current livery?! ::)
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 07, 2016, 09:26:38 PM
Why not use a media photograph of a bus actually to Euro6 standards, in the current livery?! ::)
Because they're fitting them to old buses!
Quote from: Tony on January 07, 2016, 10:10:08 PM
Because they're fitting them to old buses!
You'd have thought that they would have at least used a photo of a refurbished Crimson example rather than a 2007 launch photo dating back to Bowker days
Quote from: Winston on January 07, 2016, 10:16:06 PM
You'd have thought that they would have at least used a photo of a refurbished Crimson example rather than a 2007 launch photo dating back to Bowker days
Precisely, no wonder the papers use outdated images if NX themselves do. ::) The new brand identity still doesn't seem totally rolled out. Would be good if a logo was put onto the greener buses to indicate that though they look older they are nearly as green as newer examples, as TfL specify.
Just very funny they use an image of investment 8/9 years ago, in a different livery of a type of bus unlikely to even get the treatment. Talk about not selling yourself! Stick a WM Buses Walsall logo on it to finish it off ::) Or do a version of that cleaner greener WMT advertising livery
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 03, 2016, 07:56:31 PM
I assumed as much, I'd predict 18 WB 06 Gem's will be done, 31 04/54 BC tridents, 30 BC 03 tridents, 15 PE 03 tridents, 33 PB Gem's which makes about 127 on very rough calculations then the balance as AG Gem's that work in on city centre services.
Spookily, I think the sum of Geminis 4475-4534, 4635-4679 and 4700-4717 add up to 123 buses (or it would if 4520 wasn't in reserve).
But 03 tridents are being done for the 97?
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 07, 2016, 10:23:20 PM
Precisely, no wonder the papers use outdated images if NX themselves do. ::) The new brand identity still doesn't seem totally rolled out. Would be good if a logo was put onto the greener buses to indicate that though they look older they are nearly as green as newer examples, as TfL specify.
Just very funny they use an image of investment 8/9 years ago, in a different livery of a type of bus unlikely to even get the treatment. Talk about not selling yourself! Stick a WM Buses Walsall logo on it to finish it off ::) Or do a version of that cleaner greener WMT advertising livery
Euro 4 E400s will also be upgraded, so the bus in the photo is 100% correct to use, showing that a red/white E400 will become the equivalent of a brand new bus after refurbishment and fitting of a trap
Quote from: Tony on January 08, 2016, 07:38:32 AM
Euro 4 E400s will also be upgraded, so the bus in the photo is 100% correct to use, showing that a red/white E400 will become the equivalent of a brand new bus after refurbishment and fitting of a trap
Does that mean when they have they're traps fitted they will be repainted at the same time
Repainted buses may have a chance, like the 97's and the 5/31's.
4700-17 could be done for the 127/8
Quote from: Tony on January 08, 2016, 07:38:32 AM
Euro 4 E400s will also be upgraded, so the bus in the photo is 100% correct to use, showing that a red/white E400 will become the equivalent of a brand new bus after refurbishment and fitting of a trap
If Euro E400's are also been upgraded, why not use a photo of the last Crimson repainted E400 @ WB in the press release, no one will be able to tell whether of not it has had an Eminox exhaust system fitted
Maybe they will have a sticker on them like some of mmc have
I'd have thought Euro 3 buses like the Geminis would need more than SCR and traps to achieve Euro 6.
Quote from: Stevo on January 08, 2016, 09:20:31 PM
I'd have thought Euro 3 buses like the Geminis would need more than SCR and traps to achieve Euro 6.
No, Eminox have developed an exhaust system that can upgrade Euro 3 buses to Euro 6 emission standards. But I'm assuming that those upgraded buses still won't be as fuel efficient as new Euro 6 models
Quote from: Winston on January 08, 2016, 10:52:18 PM
No, Eminox have developed an exhaust system that can upgrade Euro 3 buses to Euro 6 emission standards. But I'm assuming that those upgraded buses still won't be as fuel efficient as new Euro 6 models
Would you happen to know the difference in fuel efficiency between a Gemini and say an Enviro 400MMC ?!
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on January 08, 2016, 11:02:44 PM
Would you happen to know the difference in fuel efficiency between a Gemini and say an Enviro 400MMC ?!
No sorry, but obviously newer models are lighter weight & smaller engines
Quote from: Winston on January 08, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
No sorry, but obviously newer models are lighter weight & smaller engines
This article on Enviro400MMCs states they return 6.3mpg !! I have no idea if NX's setup is different but what to say
http://www.route-one.net/vehicles/first-drive-alexander-dennis-enviro400-mmc/
Surely there is a much easier way to get more greener buses on the streets, change fleet livery to GREEN!!! ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Jack6101 on January 08, 2016, 09:57:32 AM
4700-17 could be done for the 127/8
talk around the garage is 127/8 will be off to pensnett garage to link up with the 129 and in return West Bromwich will get the 120 service back, more than enough Geminis to cover all running cards.
This looks like the more interesting bit:
The organisations are also bidding for further funding which, if successful, would see the bus company and Centro introduce up to 50 fully electric buses in 2017 and 2018 on routes with air quality issues.
The two organisations are also working with Birmingham City Council as part of the 100 Bus Hydrogen Project, which aims to put 20 fuel cell buses into service in 2018.
Quote from: 2900 on January 10, 2016, 10:58:48 AM
talk around the garage is 127/8 will be off to pensnett garage to link up with the 129 and in return West Bromwich will get the 120 service back, more than enough Geminis to cover all running cards.
Drivers at pensnett would have to be type trained for geminis?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on January 10, 2016, 11:31:16 AM
Drivers at pensnett would have to be type trained for geminis?
If it transfered couldn't Pensnett use the B7RLE or, Tridents on it?
I don't think the Geminis would move to pensnett the b7rle,s could be used on the 127/8/9 with some tridents for the peak, west brom operated mercs on the 127/8 for years only issue was peak time loadings which as I say can be dealt with a double decker on those running cards no different to what pennsnet are doing with 120 currently.
From an enthusiasts view once the "traps" or diesel particulate filters are fitted the bus will lose performance and will sound different.
Its good that they will have a new lease of life but it wont be like a Gemini today
Quote from: BU07 LGO on January 10, 2016, 04:52:37 PM
From an enthusiasts view once the "traps" or diesel particulate filters are fitted the bus will lose performance and will sound different.
Its good that they will have a new lease of life but it wont be like a Gemini today
This is a bonus in my opinion if they are quieter, and I'm an enthusiast who lives next to one of the routes they are operated on.
West Bromwich Geminis need all the power the engine can muster, fitting of traps is going turn them into slugs, I guess it wil dull the very entertaining mk1 enviro 400 as well , whoopie for us drivers.
May be they should try traps on the ALX400 Volvo B7TL voith gearbox, I,d imagine driving it would be horoficly slow. At west brom I,ve met quite a few drivers from London they all say they can't believe how strangled the voith b7tl,s are its rediclous compared to the London examples.
Quote from: 2900 on January 11, 2016, 11:36:17 AMAt west brom I,ve met quite a few drivers from London they all say they can't believe how strangled the voith b7tl,s are its rediclous compared to the London examples.
Quoted for emphasis.
When I was at Training, there was a couple of London drivers going to WB actually. Not really relevant but just thinking aloud.
Has work been started on the fitting of diesel particulate filters? If not unless the fitting can be done quickly there will not be much time to convert 150 buses, which I assume will be required by May 2017.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on May 12, 2016, 09:13:34 PM
Has work been started on the fitting of diesel particulate filters? If not unless the fitting can be done quickly there will not be much time to convert 150 buses, which I assume will be required by May 2017.
It has gone quiet hasn't it :p
9/10 months to go now
Quote from: uniquicity on August 02, 2016, 06:41:29 PM
It has gone quiet hasn't it :p
9/10 months to go now
You'd think now is a good time due to the lower overall PVR, vehicles are being transferred all over and so ideally they should be converted now.
Do we know which vehicles will have them ?
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 02, 2016, 06:47:06 PM
You'd think now is a good time due to the lower overall PVR, vehicles are being transferred all over and so ideally they should be converted now.
Do we know which vehicles will have them ?
How do you know nothing is happening?