WM Bus Photos Forum

General Category => The Archive => Topic started by: matt904102 on June 10, 2012, 11:54:59 AM

Title: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 10, 2012, 11:54:59 AM
Anyone else out there got a serious passion for the Daimler Fleetline? The best bus ever!
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: PM on June 10, 2012, 12:23:02 PM
Yep. I have. Love the WM standards particularly 6311 which I travelled on at Wythall a few years back. Only wish Id been able to go on one when in service.....
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: andy on June 10, 2012, 12:59:11 PM
That makes me feel really old!! I used to get the 110 from Tamworth to Birmingham to get to my nan's in Kingstanding, only I wouldn't tell her what time I was getting there so I could wait in Tamworth until a Midland Red Fleetline turned up, which could take over an hour as the 110's were operated by Nationals and Leopards and all sorts at the time...then when I got into town I would do the same again for the 33's...wouldn't get on a Metrobus, would wait for a Fleetline! Although I confess if an Ailsa turned up I made an exception...
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: PM on June 10, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
Haha no it shouldnt xD. To be honest, I used to do the same with Diamond on the 64-wait for a lance etc. Tho I do think that fleetlines are great buses and the WM ones have good interiors which are practical with the seating upstairs etc. Tho on an unusual note, has anyone else been on 1956-the single deck fleetline. Somehow a strange to look at fleetline that is a single deck(I know that Bham and Darlington had some but still) with a first generation buggy zone and penny dot flooring doesnt seem quite right!!
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Justin Tyme on June 10, 2012, 05:20:56 PM
I'm biased - I grew up with Fleetlines and liked them very much.  To me they sounded good (better than the Leyland Atlantean, which wailed) and with the WMPTE standard Metro Cammell or Park Royal body they looked good too.

As with the Metrobuses, age got the better of them before the end, but I was very glad that TWM put on a farewell day for them.  It was like saying goodbye to part of my youth.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 10, 2012, 05:53:05 PM
Fleetlines gave off such a nice metal whine when they were in 4th gear
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 10, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
4613 JOV613P which is at Wythall was a Dudley garage vehicle. Rode it a number of times when I was a kid
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: PM on June 10, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
Although I do prefer Lynxes and I havent had a ride on 4613. Tho the fleetlines still do seem quite modern when in good condition and they dont rattle.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Bob on June 10, 2012, 07:08:06 PM
i remember about 1994 Walsall garage got all the remaining East Lancs fleetlines from Cov and 1 TVP-S standard MCW one!!!! i was in heaven i used to wait for them to come on the 350 route to get home !! I seem to remember Walsall running a few DP nationals around this time too? can anyone confirm that?
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: hartshill busman 724210 on June 12, 2012, 11:13:21 AM
I was`nt as impressed when i drove them. Stupidly placed indicator noisy air wipers that squealed all day and as for the WMPTE power steering,that was always entertaining.But then again on a snowy day a manual selector gearbox meant that you did`nt get stuck as easily as a metrobus.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 12, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: hartshill busman on June 12, 2012, 11:13:21 AM
I was`nt as impressed when i drove them. Stupidly placed indicator noisy air wipers that squealed all day and as for the WMPTE power steering,that was always entertaining.But then again on a snowy day a manual selector gearbox meant that you did`nt get stuck as easily as a metrobus.
modern motors still find ways of annoying you
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 12, 2012, 12:06:18 PM
Air power steering that blasted you in the face when cornering. Gears that slipped terribly when the flywheel was low on oil. Handbrake that went all the way to the back of the bus when the brakes needed adjusting! Engine stalling when selecting a gear after it had been left idling a while. Accelerator than needed pumping to get full revs. Brake fade.  Air pressure would drop when crawling in traffic and then the gears would slip. Massive flat inverted autosteer wheel. Air wipers that would never park where you wanted them to. Water cascading off the periscope. All things that make the Fleetline the best bus ever! Did I mention the 20 year production run?
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: hartshill busman 724210 on June 12, 2012, 05:57:54 PM
Now don`t start me off on the handbrake.!!!!!!!! ::)
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Tony on June 12, 2012, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: hartshill busman on June 12, 2012, 05:57:54 PM
Now don`t start me off on the handbrake.!!!!!!!! ::)

If you weren't keen on the following driver you could pump all the air out and the handbrake would pull a couple of extra notches, then put the air back in and the handbrake was almost impossible to release without pumping all the air out again!
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: hartshill busman 724210 on June 12, 2012, 07:19:25 PM
Sounds like a Quinton drivers trick when being followed by Hartshills finest. :)
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: karl724223 on June 12, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
fleetlines cracking motors
wasnt very often a quinton driver overtook a hartshill driver i had one follow me into brum and back to stourbridge on the 9 thought he was on tow
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 13, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 10, 2012, 12:23:02 PM
Yep. I have. Love the WM standards particularly 6311 which I travelled on at Wythall a few years back. Only wish Id been able to go on one when in service.....
Have you been for a ride on it since Wythall refitted it with a Leyland o680?
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 13, 2012, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 10, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
Haha no it shouldnt xD. To be honest, I used to do the same with Diamond on the 64-wait for a lance etc. Tho I do think that fleetlines are great buses and the WM ones have good interiors which are practical with the seating upstairs etc. Tho on an unusual note, has anyone else been on 1956-the single deck fleetline. Somehow a strange to look at fleetline that is a single deck(I know that Bham and Darlington had some but still) with a first generation buggy zone and penny dot flooring doesnt seem quite right!!
BCT had some single deck Fleetlines with Marshall bodywork that looked very much like 1956. But 1956 itself was indeed a standard double deck that got decapitated in an accident. Orginally i believe 6956 WDA956T. It was converted by WMT
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: matt904102 on June 13, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
Anyone remember 6787 SDA787S a DY bus and the only one fitted with an automatic Gearbox?
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: hartshill busman 724210 on June 13, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on June 12, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
fleetlines cracking motors
wasnt very often a quinton driver overtook a hartshill driver i had one follow me into brum and back to stourbridge on the 9 thought he was on tow
Unless it was Electric Eric Who would leave both terminus`s early never to be seen again,and god help you if you were behind him.He was known to use the underpass at Five ways even though the route at the time was over the top with a stop on the other side of the roundabout.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Bob on June 13, 2012, 05:59:49 PM
Anyone know when walsalls last ones finally retired??
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Badger on June 13, 2012, 06:50:34 PM
These were very nice buses but I think my favourite were the Green Bus Service's.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8050359@N07/2416210893/
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 13, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: matt904102 on June 13, 2012, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 10, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
Haha no it shouldnt xD. To be honest, I used to do the same with Diamond on the 64-wait for a lance etc. Tho I do think that fleetlines are great buses and the WM ones have good interiors which are practical with the seating upstairs etc. Tho on an unusual note, has anyone else been on 1956-the single deck fleetline. Somehow a strange to look at fleetline that is a single deck(I know that Bham and Darlington had some but still) with a first generation buggy zone and penny dot flooring doesnt seem quite right!!
BCT had some single deck Fleetlines with Marshall bodywork that looked very much like 1956. But 1956 itself was indeed a standard double deck that got decapitated in an accident. Orginally i believe 6956 WDA956T. It was converted by WMT

1956 was not involved in any accident. 6956 had been withdrawn and was in store at Selly Oak and was used as a prototype to a possible fleet of single deck fleetlines. WMT paid less to 'small bus' drivers, so by converting double deckers to small single deckers they would spend less in wage costs. I believe the conversion cost was around £25,000 (or so I am told) therefore not really financially viable especially due to the Fleetlines age.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Tony on June 13, 2012, 09:47:20 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 13, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: matt904102 on June 13, 2012, 10:55:55 AM
Quote from: Peter123 on June 10, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
Haha no it shouldnt xD. To be honest, I used to do the same with Diamond on the 64-wait for a lance etc. Tho I do think that fleetlines are great buses and the WM ones have good interiors which are practical with the seating upstairs etc. Tho on an unusual note, has anyone else been on 1956-the single deck fleetline. Somehow a strange to look at fleetline that is a single deck(I know that Bham and Darlington had some but still) with a first generation buggy zone and penny dot flooring doesnt seem quite right!!
BCT had some single deck Fleetlines with Marshall bodywork that looked very much like 1956. But 1956 itself was indeed a standard double deck that got decapitated in an accident. Orginally i believe 6956 WDA956T. It was converted by WMT

1956 was not involved in any accident. 6956 had been withdrawn and was in store at Selly Oak and was used as a prototype to a possible fleet of single deck fleetlines. WMT paid less to 'small bus' drivers, so by converting double deckers to small single deckers they would spend less in wage costs. I believe the conversion cost was around £25,000 (or so I am told) therefore not really financially viable especially due to the Fleetlines age.

6956 was withdrawn with accident damage, but very minor damage to the front, nothing to cause the loss of the top deck, so both correct really
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: hartshill busman 724210 on June 13, 2012, 10:20:00 PM
1956 was an idea of DON THE WM BUS (millionaire)COLSTON when the union was after a one class driver pay scale.Buses were standing because of shortages of full rate/licence drivers and the minibus rate drivers were`nt allowed to drive full size buses.(union insistence and minibus licenses also came into it)By the time 1956 was converted the management were on the verge of agreeing one class drivers,so along with the costs of conversion it all became a non starter.But to be fair did WMT really want a fleet of ugly duckings running around.As i remember it 1956 spent much of its days operating the old 242 Cradley Heath-Kinver route or 297.Brockmoor-Stourbridge
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Tony on June 13, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Quote from: hartshill busman on June 13, 2012, 10:20:00 PM
1956 was an idea of DON THE WM BUS (millionaire)COLSTON when the union was after a one class driver pay scale.Buses were standing because of shortages of full rate/licence drivers and the minibus rate drivers were`nt allowed to drive full size buses.(union insistence and minibus licenses also came into it)By the time 1956 was converted the management were on the verge of agreeing one class drivers,so along with the costs of conversion it all became a non starter.But to be fair did WMT really want a fleet of ugly duckings running around.As i remember it 1956 spent much of its days operating the old 242 Cradley Heath-Kinver route or 297.Brockmoor-Stourbridge

That was the reason behind wanting 37 seat buses, but the engineering department were never really happy with the dart which was the main drive behind converting the fleetline instead of buying new darts of the same capacity. With its large wheels and several other modern features added it was a much higher quality vehicle than the darts of the same era. One major change was it had the complete steering column removed and replaced by that from former LT DMS2137 which at the time was in the reserve fleet having been aquired with Tame Valley. This meant it was the only new to WMPTE fleetline ever to have proper power steering
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 14, 2012, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: Tony on June 13, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Quote from: hartshill busman on June 13, 2012, 10:20:00 PM
1956 was an idea of DON THE WM BUS (millionaire)COLSTON when the union was after a one class driver pay scale.Buses were standing because of shortages of full rate/licence drivers and the minibus rate drivers were`nt allowed to drive full size buses.(union insistence and minibus licenses also came into it)By the time 1956 was converted the management were on the verge of agreeing one class drivers,so along with the costs of conversion it all became a non starter.But to be fair did WMT really want a fleet of ugly duckings running around.As i remember it 1956 spent much of its days operating the old 242 Cradley Heath-Kinver route or 297.Brockmoor-Stourbridge

That was the reason behind wanting 37 seat buses, but the engineering department were never really happy with the dart which was the main drive behind converting the fleetline instead of buying new darts of the same capacity. With its large wheels and several other modern features added it was a much higher quality vehicle than the darts of the same era. One major change was it had the complete steering column removed and replaced by that from former LT DMS2137 which at the time was in the reserve fleet having been aquired with Tame Valley. This meant it was the only new to WMPTE fleetline ever to have proper power steering

And oddly, an Optare steering wheel! Looked most strange compared to the huge steering wheels that Fleetlines were used to.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: PM on June 14, 2012, 08:29:41 AM
In reply to an earlier comment, I have been on 6311 since the retrofitting of the 680.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: settlerman on June 29, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
Remember the nickname that WM Fleetlines got when they had power steering fitted. If I remember correctly the system was called Auto Steer but it soon got the nickname of "Auto Fear" They did take a little getting used to.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 29, 2012, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: settlerman on June 29, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
Remember the nickname that WM Fleetlines got when they had power steering fitted. If I remember correctly the system was called Auto Steer but it soon got the nickname of "Auto Fear" They did take a little getting used to.

Or 'Auto-veer' as apparently they would veer off into a different direction.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Discodave on June 30, 2012, 11:22:32 AM
yes the drivers hands were always moving the whell from left to right to keep the bus straight my dad drove them a lot did like them though espically 6666 the original devil bus was it right it was charmed as it never was involved in an accident or have any major mechanical breakdown all i remember it was a old WH garage bus usually on the 26 bromford bridge a regular for fleetlines, metros were a luxury?  but bromford bridge was a scuzzy area so thats maybe why.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 30, 2012, 12:50:13 PM
Quote from: Discodave on June 30, 2012, 11:22:32 AM
yes the drivers hands were always moving the whell from left to right to keep the bus straight my dad drove them a lot did like them though espically 6666 the original devil bus was it right it was charmed as it never was involved in an accident or have any major mechanical breakdown all i remember it was a old WH garage bus usually on the 26 bromford bridge a regular for fleetlines, metros were a luxury?  but bromford bridge was a scuzzy area so thats maybe why.

I was told that 6666 had never had major mechanical breakdown or an accident. During the early 90's at least, the 26 was pretty much split between Fleetline and Metrobuses and at the time Bromford wasnt that bad. The worst really was around 3.30 when we all came out of Hodge Hill school. Nothing compared to todays kids though!

During its 'showbus' years, 6666 was given special permission to not carry exterior adverts, and very smart she always looked too!

6666 was withdrawn in 1996, however her fuel tank lives on in preserved 6311!
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 30, 2012, 12:56:34 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??

I think 1994-6. After withdrawal 6735 turned up at Wolverhampton, operating in public for the Christmas park and ride with painted out fleetnames and fleetnumbers.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: D10 on June 30, 2012, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??

My May 1995 fleetlist has 6723/8/32/5/41/4/51/2/7/8/60 at Walsall, but by October 1997 the date of my next fleetlist, these had all gone.
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Bob on June 30, 2012, 01:30:53 PM
Thanks, am it right in thinking that in about 1995 /96 Walsall suddenly gained a load of Dual Purpose nationals with volvo engines? As well as some standard DAF ones? Im sure the DP ones had been withdrawn for years before ending up back at Walsall. They made so many improvements to the Nationals then withdrew them a couple of years after!
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: winston on June 30, 2012, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 01:30:53 PM
Thanks, am it right in thinking that in about 1995 /96 Walsall suddenly gained a load of Dual Purpose nationals with volvo engines? As well as some standard DAF ones? Im sure the DP ones had been withdrawn for years before ending up back at Walsall. They made so many improvements to the Nationals then withdrew them a couple of years after!

I believe some the DP Nationals saw use with Metrowest before receiving Volvo engines etc Those would then have become surplus on the closure of the Metrowest operations. Wasn't is around the same sort of era that Central were operating various routes around Birmingham with light blue Nationals?
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: winston on June 30, 2012, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: D10 on June 30, 2012, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??

My May 1995 fleetlist has 6723/8/32/5/41/4/51/2/7/8/60 at Walsall, but by October 1997 the date of my next fleetlist, these had all gone.

I remember some of the East Lancs fleetlines ended up at Quinton Garage, would they have come from WA or from WT then moved on to WA? I think they were 6728, 6734, 6757 & 6759 from memory, but could be wrong
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: Gareth on June 30, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 30, 2012, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: D10 on June 30, 2012, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??

My May 1995 fleetlist has 6723/8/32/5/41/4/51/2/7/8/60 at Walsall, but by October 1997 the date of my next fleetlist, these had all gone.

I remember some of the East Lancs fleetlines ended up at Quinton Garage, would they have come from WA or from WT then moved on to WA? I think they were 6728, 6734, 6757 & 6759 from memory, but could be wrong

6728 and 6734 were at Dudley, 6759 and (possibly) 6757 were at Quinton. All only for a short time in early 1990, so quite a while before the Walsall transfers.

The last East Lancs in service seems to be 6735 at PL on 24/12/96
Title: Re: Fleetlines
Post by: winston on June 30, 2012, 03:42:11 PM
 
Quote from: Gareth on June 30, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 30, 2012, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: D10 on June 30, 2012, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: bob on June 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
Does any one know when the last East Lancs ones ran at Walsall??

My May 1995 fleetlist has 6723/8/32/5/41/4/51/2/7/8/60 at Walsall, but by October 1997 the date of my next fleetlist, these had all gone.

I remember some of the East Lancs fleetlines ended up at Quinton Garage, would they have come from WA or from WT then moved on to WA? I think they were 6728, 6734, 6757 & 6759 from memory, but could be wrong

6728 and 6734 were at Dudley, 6759 and (possibly) 6757 were at Quinton. All only for a short time in early 1990, so quite a while before the Walsall transfers.

The last East Lancs in service seems to be 6735 at PL on 24/12/96

Thanks Gareth, I loose track......