At the moment, about half of PE services, some WB services, 27, 66, 636, 46 are all operated by B10Ls and B6LEs, does anyone know what's going to happen to these routes once these buses are all withdrawn?
PE will probably shift Mercs onto B6LE routes, if Mercs don't get withdrawn or rotated first.
Of the garages that operate B10Ls, only AG will have most of their allocation withdrawn; YW only use their few B10Ls on the 27 service now, now the 2 and 3 have been upgraded back to double-deck operation. PB are receiving some more ex-Dundee Omnilinks which they can use to replace any B10Ls on the 66, I believe they're using a double-deck Gemini or two on the 46 service now. There are still plenty of B10Ls in decent condition, these may get rotated around to other garages to withdraw battered B10Ls, or could even go to other garages to replace battered Mercs that don't operate into Birmingham city centre.
I imagine WBs B6LEs will remain for now, but the immediate concern must be for the B6LEs at BC to be replaced for the 636 service by Summer 2012, when this new emissions requirement for city centre buses comes into force.
what about walsall? they have a lot of routes that are B6LE operated
There's no immediate requirement to withdraw their B6LEs as they don't operate into Birmingham city centre, nor Merry Hill. So for now, they will remain, like WBs.
Walsall are to receive some B10Ls to replace B6s, I believe 7129 is already there
At WB mercs seem to be replacing the b6le's as they seem the regular allocation on the 401 and 402 now as well as now appearing regulary on the 428 and 429 with their not being a route now at WB that sees b6le's only from what i can recall
Mercs on the 429? That would be a bit tight down Crookhay Lane. They are ok for the 428.
Yeah there was one on today and yesterday was really suprised my self but the one i saw down west brom high street heading to wednesbury when i was on the 74 was rammed full
Some Volov B10L`s will return to Walsall
EX-Acocks Green Examples
1421
1446
1459
1474
1477
7129
are at Walsall to be re-instated there to replace Volvo B6`s
Any idea how many will transfer to WA in total?
WA was the major B6 stronghold, glad to see B10L's are being retained in favour of withdrawing further B6
Quote from: lynx1103 on March 31, 2012, 04:55:09 PM
Some Volov B10L`s will return to Walsall
EX-Acocks Green Examples
1421
1446
1459
1474
1477
7129
are at Walsall to be re-instated there to replace Volvo B6`s
Will be nice to see some B10L's back at Walsall. Could certainly be used on 39 at peak times, I've seen B6LE's rammed with students around Wolverhampton at 9amish.
AG will be losing all B10Ls (25?) and all of them are in immaculate condition (surprisingly), so they'll probably be heading to other depots such as WA & PB replacing the B6LEs, and the poorly maintained examples.
Surely AG won't be losing all B10's, the 37 still uses B10's along with 1 bus that runs the S1 plus the occassional one that runs on the 5.
Can't these services just be replaced with spare omnilinks and B7RLEs?
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 08:41:43 PM
Surely AG won't be losing all B10's, the 37 still uses B10's along with 1 bus that runs the S1 plus the occassional one that runs on the 5.
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 08:41:43 PM
Surely AG won't be losing all B10's, the 37 still uses B10's along with 1 bus that runs the S1 plus the occassional one that runs on the 5.
Why would AG keep one or two B10Ls? More than likely, 2 more Presidents from BC to replace the 2 B10Ls left when all Eclipse2s are in service.
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
As Michael has already said, there are 23 new Eclipse potentially replacing 25 elderly B10L's, either the number of spares can be reduced as they are brand new or if AG need the additional 2 single deckers may be they will have two more of the 6 outstanding Omnilinks still due to come down from Dundee i.e. 7028-7033 or 2 more Presidents. Can't see them keeping just 2 B10L's due to having to stock spares etc
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
Quote from: davey on March 31, 2012, 07:51:13 PM
Will be nice to see some B10L's back at Walsall. Could certainly be used on 39 at peak times, I've seen B6LE's rammed with students around Wolverhampton at 9amish.
Agreed.
Before the bus review the Tridents on the 79 between Wolves and the college were usually pretty full at peak times.
So of course reducing the 79 to every 20 mins and extending the B6LE-only 39 from Bilston was bound to result in crammed B6LEs.
I'm not sure of the 39's route between Bilston and Darlaston.
Anyone know if that section can accomodate B10Ls?
Quote
Agreed.
Before the bus review the Tridents on the 79 between Wolves and the college were usually pretty full at peak times.
So of course reducing the 79 to every 20 mins and extending the B6LE-only 39 from Bilston was bound to result in crammed B6LEs.
I'm not sure of the 39's route between Bilston and Darlaston.
Anyone know if that section can accomodate B10Ls?
I'm not sure on the route, but B7RLE's used to operate on a Sunday when the route was the 339 - assuming the 339 and 39 route between Bilston & Walsall didn't change.
Walsall could transfer 2 Scania to Acocks Green to replace all of Volvo B10L`s at Acocks green. I`m glad B10L`s are coming back to Walsall they are so much nicer than a scania and B7RlE. B10L`s could operated on the 34/38/39. Thease services are on the same running boards and the 38 operates via Manor Hospital where a low bridge is. B7RLES and scania`s cannot fit under the bridge but B10L`s can. That is why the 34/38/39 only see`s B6`s. A 17xx B7RLE is 11.4 and the bridge is 10.6 that is why only B6`s operate on thease services. On the 39 I think it should be re-routed out of Herberts park because A B10L is a bit big for this section of route.
1512 is repainted allover white. I`m gussing it might be re joining the tranning fleet.
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
Only the 71, 72 and S1 are B10L operated. And the S1 only uses one bus.
AG already gained two Omnilinks from Dundee, bringing the number of Omnilinks there up to 25, which should be more than enough to keep the 37 all-Omnilink operated. And AG have received extra Presidents from BC too, which they've been using to 'help-out' on peak-time workings of the 37, which is where you'd have seen B10Ls being used. The odd B10L has also appeared on other double-deck routes, like the 1, 5 and 31, but that was probably only while double-decks have been off for repaint/repair.
In the next week or so, when you get a chance to catch a B10L, do so, as it may be your last opportunity. I hope that some of them can be put to good use at other garages.
Scanias fit under the bridge, I was involved in checking when they were first delivered to Walsall, there is about 10 inches to spare.
Here is 1883 on the test run
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/1750-1953/1883.html
Tony
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
There isn't 'several' B10s that run alongside the 37. There is one or two, which can easily be replaced by two more Presidents or two more Scanias. There are also 7019/20 which often venture on to the 71/72 along with other OmniLinks, so the 37 can be operated solely by Scanias, if AG allocated them all to it.
Like I said previously, it is unlikely that AG will keep one or two B10Ls. There are 23 new vehicles to replace 25 older vehicles. They will either gain two buses from somewhere else, or lower the spare ratio.
Quote from: Michael on April 01, 2012, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
There isn't 'several' B10s that run alongside the 37. There is one or two, which can easily be replaced by two more Presidents or two more Scanias. There are also 7019/20 which often venture on to the 71/72 along with other OmniLinks, so the 37 can be operated solely by Scanias, if AG allocated them all to it.
Like I said previously, it is unlikely that AG will keep one or two B10Ls. There are 23 new vehicles to replace 25 older vehicles. They will either gain two buses from somewhere else, or lower the spare ratio.
It could be that WB transfer 2 of their presidents to AG and recieve 2 mercs from pensnett in return may be an option.
Even after PB recieve more ex Dundee Omnilinks i think they'll keep some B10Ls for the 28 route.
What about the ex-dundee omnilinks?
Quote from: winston on March 31, 2012, 10:37:14 PM
As Michael has already said, there are 23 new Eclipse potentially replacing 25 elderly B10L's, either the number of spares can be reduced as they are brand new or if AG need the additional 2 single deckers may be they will have two more of the 6 outstanding Omnilinks still due to come down from Dundee i.e. 7028-7033 or 2 more Presidents. Can't see them keeping just 2 B10L's due to having to stock spares etc
Quote from: 966 on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PM
Because there are several B10's that run the 37 alongside the omnilinks aswell as the the 5 and S1 so even though they are getting the new urban eclipses, which will mainly be used on the 71/72 will that leave enough buses for the routes that are currently B10 operated. It's why I wondered if they would transfer all the B10's as it would be ashame if they all left as they are the best SD in the fleet (in my opinion)!
Of those that have already arrived in the West Midlands, 2 have gone to Acocks Green, 1 to Bordesley Green and the rest appear to be allocated to Perry Barr.
Couldn't they convert the 952 to double decker, and have it interwork with the 907, to free up some omnilinks?
Quote from: Lukeee on April 01, 2012, 05:44:05 PM
Even after PB recieve more ex Dundee Omnilinks i think they'll keep some B10Ls for the 28 route.
Quote from: Stu on April 01, 2012, 07:36:51 PM
Of those that have already arrived in the West Midlands, 2 have gone to Acocks Green, 1 to Bordesley Green and the rest appear to be allocated to Perry Barr.
The one 'at Bordesley' is now at Perry Barr
Quote from: Tony on April 01, 2012, 07:48:05 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 01, 2012, 07:36:51 PM
Of those that have already arrived in the West Midlands, 2 have gone to Acocks Green, 1 to Bordesley Green and the rest appear to be allocated to Perry Barr.
The one 'at Bordesley' is now at Perry Barr
Ah I see, your list still shows 7206 as allocated to BY, so I guess its not been updated yet! :D
I haven't had the full list of Macrh changes from the company yet
Didnt WA originally have them buses to start off with ?? & I wouldnt be surprised if one ended up on the 997 on A sunday as they are single decker operated now on Sundays & Evenings
Quote from: NathanJC on April 06, 2012, 07:29:55 PM
Didnt WA originally have them buses to start off with ?? & I wouldnt be surprised if one ended up on the 997 on A sunday as they are single decker operated now on Sundays & Evenings
On the other hand, I would be surprised if they end up on the 997, simply because of the fine they'd pay for entering the city soon. The B10Ls would have to be strictly for non Birmingham routes at Walsall.
This new Birmingham Emisson is costing NXWM alot of money & time I think,
Plaxton's
B10L's
B6LE's
Mercs
Carnt enter the City but what happens when a bus is unavalible on that route e.g.
BY 17 an ominilinks breaks down and the only replacement is a merc what happens then ??
If that happened then the Merc will have to run as an E journey as far into Birmingham as it can, or they might have to borrow another Scania from another garage if possible
They will need to ensure they have sufficient spares, if necessary they may have to exchange compliant buses off non Birmingham routes to prevent a fine or stop them short/turn them around before entering the City Centre boundary
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 10:13:02 AM
This new Birmingham Emisson is costing NXWM alot of money & time I think,
Plaxton's
B10L's
B6LE's
Mercs
Carnt enter the City but what happens when a bus is unavalible on that route e.g.
BY 17 an ominilinks breaks down and the only replacement is a merc what happens then ??
What is the fine?
Quote from: John-s-91 on April 24, 2012, 10:19:41 AM
If that happened then the Merc will have to run as an E journey as far into Birmingham as it can, or they might have to borrow another Scania from another garage if possible
So as far a Digbeth Coach Station, to be fair the only passangers they would loose is from Birmingham, Moor Street. or does Digbeth come under the new emmison becuase it would only be able to turn around at the Markets so either way it would get a fine if B'Ham markets comes under the new emmison if not then that would be an ideal place for service 17 to terminate if a merc operated on that route ;D
So what if theres no buses that can go on loan ?
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 12:13:57 PM
Quote from: John-s-91 on April 24, 2012, 10:19:41 AM
If that happened then the Merc will have to run as an E journey as far into Birmingham as it can, or they might have to borrow another Scania from another garage if possible
So as far a Digbeth Coach Station, to be fair the only passangers they would loose is from Birmingham, Moor Street. or does Digbeth come under the new emmison becuase it would only be able to turn around at the Markets so either way it would get a fine if B'Ham markets comes under the new emmison if not then that would be an ideal place for service 17 to terminate if a merc operated on that route ;D
So what if theres no buses that can go on loan ?
There are always buses available for loan. BC & BY appear to work together so I'm sure BY can borrow an Eclipses from BC if required.
A bit of topic but i remember when the 404 was first operated by omnilinks in 2009 they all entered service and there was a problem in bradford place and the buses were catching something ( i think thats the reason) and west brom has to borrow buses from all different garages just to cover i remember seeing omnilinks from perry barr, metrobuses from acocks green ( and they had not operated since 2007) and on the route were WB mercs,b6le, presidents basically any bus spare in the garage so around 19 buses had to be found so im sure with the emmission rules buses will be found if needed from other garages.
Quote from: Ash on April 24, 2012, 06:08:44 PM
A bit of topic but i remember when the 404 was first operated by omnilinks in 2009 they all entered service and there was a problem in bradford place and the buses were catching something ( i think thats the reason) and west brom has to borrow buses from all different garages just to cover i remember seeing omnilinks from perry barr, metrobuses from acocks green ( and they had not operated since 2007) and on the route were WB mercs,b6le, presidents basically any bus spare in the garage so around 19 buses had to be found so im sure with the emmission rules buses will be found if needed from other garages.
Yeah there was some sort of oil spillage I think. A lot of Perry Barr Scanias were on the 404.
Quote from: thetruth on April 24, 2012, 06:50:58 PM
It was March 2009.
There were only 2 PB Scanias on loan. 1836 and 1837. Also 3111 from Wolverhampton. Can't remember what else cos I'm getting old and forgetful.
They were finding pools of diesel underneath the Scania parked in the depot.
Yeah i didnt know the exact reason it was good seeing metrobuses that day in west brom routes i remember them being on the 80,128 and 449 yeah there was only the 2 scania's on the 404 with a mixed range of other vehicles west brom depot must have been empty that day apart from the 404 scania's
Quote from: Michael on April 24, 2012, 05:56:34 PM
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 12:13:57 PM
Quote from: John-s-91 on April 24, 2012, 10:19:41 AM
If that happened then the Merc will have to run as an E journey as far into Birmingham as it can, or they might have to borrow another Scania from another garage if possible
So as far a Digbeth Coach Station, to be fair the only passangers they would loose is from Birmingham, Moor Street. or does Digbeth come under the new emmison becuase it would only be able to turn around at the Markets so either way it would get a fine if B'Ham markets comes under the new emmison if not then that would be an ideal place for service 17 to terminate if a merc operated on that route ;D
So what if theres no buses that can go on loan ?
There are always buses available for loan. BC & BY appear to work together so I'm sure BY can borrow an Eclipses from BC if required.
Fair enough, but arnt all of BC gonna be used ????
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: Michael on April 24, 2012, 05:56:34 PM
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 12:13:57 PM
Quote from: John-s-91 on April 24, 2012, 10:19:41 AM
If that happened then the Merc will have to run as an E journey as far into Birmingham as it can, or they might have to borrow another Scania from another garage if possible
So as far a Digbeth Coach Station, to be fair the only passangers they would loose is from Birmingham, Moor Street. or does Digbeth come under the new emmison becuase it would only be able to turn around at the Markets so either way it would get a fine if B'Ham markets comes under the new emmison if not then that would be an ideal place for service 17 to terminate if a merc operated on that route ;D
So what if theres no buses that can go on loan ?
There are always buses available for loan. BC & BY appear to work together so I'm sure BY can borrow an Eclipses from BC if required.
Fair enough, but arnt all of BC gonna be used ????
Hence the word loan. Short term. Temporary.
If all buses are being used how can they be loaned
Quote from: NathanJC on April 24, 2012, 08:12:17 PM
If all buses are being used how can they be loaned
All buses aren't bein used. Out of around every 85 buses at a garage, 15 are not in use on average.
More like 1 in 10, most garage only have about 10% spares
Quote from: Tony on April 24, 2012, 08:38:37 PM
More like 1 in 10, most garage only have about 10% spares
Sorry 10% rather than 15%. Still, not all buses are not being used so they are available if another Garage requires. Also don't forget buses are also on the pits so not all vehicles are out.
I have a photograph which I haven't yet put on the website showing a completely empty Acocks Green garage, not a bus insight!
What time was it? Is it just indoor or does it include where the Blythe Valley B6s were parked on the wall outside, and where the Geminis are parked outside, and the engineering building?
It was taken about 2 months ago at around 17:30. The only buses not in use were in the seperate maintenance building
Quote from: Tony on April 24, 2012, 09:06:09 PM
It was taken about 2 months ago at around 17:30. The only buses not in use were in the seperate maintenance building
Fair enough. Don't suppose you can upload it?
It is two photos that need stitching together first to get the full wide angle, I will do it soon
Tony
First in Kidderminster used to work on 10% spare but at Veolia we had 8 spare for a fleet of 38!!
Fair enough ;D