WM Bus Photos Forum

Locomotive & Light-Rail => Midland Metro => Topic started by: winston on July 16, 2014, 01:24:53 PM

Title: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 16, 2014, 01:24:53 PM
I don't think its been mentioned elsewhere? But the West Midlands was last week awarded £350 million of Government Funding, included were the following transport related projects:

* A new 16.5km public transport system known as Sprint from Birmingham City Centre to Birmingham International and a planned new high speed rail station near the NEC. This uses road vehicles similar to buses but they operate in a similar way to trams: £35 million

* A Sprint scheme connecting Birmingham City Centre with Quinton along the Hagley Road: £8.1 million

* A Midland Metro extension to Edgbaston: £59.8 million

* Midland Metro extension to Eastside £40.5 million

* A new pedestrian link between Birmingham's Moor Street and New Street stations: £3.5 million

* Midland Metro extension to Centenary Square: £8 million

* Improving Snow Hill Station in Birmingham: £4.66 million

* Developing cycle routes in Birmingham: £6 million

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/350m-funding-boost-west-midlands-7379681
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: tank90 on July 16, 2014, 11:22:30 PM
Is it not the case that sprint is either frt type thing or trolley buses..........



*grabs coat*
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 16, 2014, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: tank90 on July 16, 2014, 11:22:30 PM
Is it not the case that sprint is either frt type thing or trolley buses..........

*grabs coat*

Quote below from a Centro press release:

Centro describes Sprint as "a high quality, tram-style service benefiting from highway priority measures to speed up journeys".

It does sound as Sprint may be along the lines of First Groups FTR
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: the trainbasher on July 16, 2014, 11:43:28 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 16, 2014, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: tank90 on July 16, 2014, 11:22:30 PM
Is it not the case that sprint is either frt type thing or trolley buses..........

*grabs coat*

Quote below from a Centro press release:

Centro describes Sprint as "a high quality, tram-style service benefiting from highway priority measures to speed up journeys".

It does sound as Sprint may be along the lines of First Groups FTR

And we all know how that ended...
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: trident4370 on July 17, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
Yet more money thrown at the Metro, that only benefits a minority of WM public transport users.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: tank90 on July 17, 2014, 02:19:44 AM
Quote from: trident4370 on July 17, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
Yet more money thrown at the Metro, that only benefits a minority of WM public transport users.

Don't moan to much, one end of the cross city line was going to be converted to tram at one point.
If I'm honest you need a good firm grounding to start building a new network from scratch, sadly in years very past tram feel out of flavour across the UK now we see ooooo a tram is greener on our streets then a smoke bleching bus (diamond provide a few). Where as some parts of the world kept there networks and have more scope. Granted 3ft8inch or how ever many inches was a tad out of the "normal gauage" for things but it fitted the routes it used, no point having a 4ft8inch tram running on a road that it was to wide for. Any way that was going away with the fairies.
In time Metro will have a larger reach with more money (something we have less of) in say 25 years.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Stevo on July 17, 2014, 10:12:02 AM
Anyone know where in Edgbaston the tram will go? Is is a resurrection of the old scheme to run up Broad Street and under the Five Ways underpass? Any extension of the metro is welcome as it becomes useful to more people.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 17, 2014, 11:34:09 AM
Quote from: Stevo on July 17, 2014, 10:12:02 AM
Anyone know where in Edgbaston the tram will go? Is is a resurrection of the old scheme to run up Broad Street and under the Five Ways underpass? Any extension of the metro is welcome as it becomes useful to more people.

The proposed Metro extensions still only offer a greater choice of final destinations within Birmingham City Centre for those that use the original line 1 & allow for travel within Birmingham City Centre only. There is still no sign of any new lines being built, no doubt the Metro extensions will also disrupt bus services & push those further out of the City Centre making those less convenient for more passengers as has happened with the current extension.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: andrew1991 on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 30, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015

Thanks for that, not that far away then. It may have implications on the frequencies of the current Hagley Road services provided by Pensnett i.e. 9, 140 & 141
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015

Thanks for that, not that far away then. It may have implications on the frequencies of the current Hagley Road services provided by Pensnett i.e. 9, 140 & 141

I love the fact they have used one from Barcelona that says it is going to Gornal! perhaps they are going to run the old 138 route!

I am going to Barcelona next month, be interesting to see those

Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 30, 2014, 03:56:11 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015

Thanks for that, not that far away then. It may have implications on the frequencies of the current Hagley Road services provided by Pensnett i.e. 9, 140 & 141

I love the fact they have used one from Barcelona that says it is going to Gornal! perhaps they are going to run the old 138 route!

I am going to Barcelona next month, be interesting to see those

Does your NX staff pass include free travel on ALSA???
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:56:11 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015

Thanks for that, not that far away then. It may have implications on the frequencies of the current Hagley Road services provided by Pensnett i.e. 9, 140 & 141

I love the fact they have used one from Barcelona that says it is going to Gornal! perhaps they are going to run the old 138 route!

I am going to Barcelona next month, be interesting to see those

Does your NX staff pass include free travel on ALSA???

Never tried. I am going on a family holiday to Cambrilles, but when we stay there we always have at least one day in Barcelona which is about an hour train ride away
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 30, 2014, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:56:11 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 30, 2014, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 30, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 30, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
sprint down the Hagley Road by 2016 http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/sprint-buses-down-hagley-road-7529015

Thanks for that, not that far away then. It may have implications on the frequencies of the current Hagley Road services provided by Pensnett i.e. 9, 140 & 141

I love the fact they have used one from Barcelona that says it is going to Gornal! perhaps they are going to run the old 138 route!

I am going to Barcelona next month, be interesting to see those

Does your NX staff pass include free travel on ALSA???

Never tried. I am going on a family holiday to Cambrilles, but when we stay there we always have at least one day in Barcelona which is about an hour train ride away

Just down the coast from Salou then, have you put in a holiday form???  :P
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Russ Smith on July 31, 2014, 01:03:22 AM
Can't see a Sprint route which covers a relatively short section of the 'number nine bus route' which it is based on being of much use unless there is integrated ticketing between bus and Sprint, any idea who's meant to be operating it?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 31, 2014, 08:27:07 AM
Quote from: Russ Smith on July 31, 2014, 01:03:22 AM
Can't see a Sprint route which covers a relatively short section of the 'number nine bus route' which it is based on being of much use unless there is integrated ticketing between bus and Sprint, any idea who's meant to be operating it?

No doubt it will be NX as per the Midland Metro

Thinking about it, Sprint was announced as part of the NX & Centro partnership scheme along with the 300 new buses / gold corridors etc, so it is almost certain NX will operate Sprint
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: andrew1991 on July 31, 2014, 08:51:34 AM
Is there a suitable place for these bendy buses to turn around in Quinton or will something have to be changed ?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: andrew1991 on July 31, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
Sprint - Metro's little sister http://www.centro.org.uk/transport/sprint/
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on July 31, 2014, 01:27:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew on July 31, 2014, 08:51:34 AM
Is there a suitable place for these bendy buses to turn around in Quinton or will something have to be changed ?

The island above Quinton Expressway? Just seen it will terminate at Ridgeway Avenue, Quinton which looks as though that would be used for them to turn around with B'ham bound Sprint's re-entering Quinton, Hagley Road West from College Road. As it's coming that far in to Quinton, I don't know why they don't extend the scheme to Halesowen via Mucklows Hill?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: notepanel on July 31, 2014, 02:17:59 PM
Perhaps I am missing something about this scheme, but what is the point?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: the trainbasher on July 31, 2014, 06:46:06 PM
Isn't it basically ftr but with a fancier name?

Hell why don't First don't just run it and cascade the existing ftr/hyperlinks here?!
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Trident 4194 on August 05, 2014, 02:38:47 PM
In the bus stops in the real time ones with the electronic displays, they were advertising sprint
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 09:51:44 AM
I don't see the point launching yet another type of public transport, what happened to the ideas of extending the metro along Hagley Road and having more of a network of trams?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: D10 on August 10, 2014, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 09:51:44 AM
I don't see the point launching yet another type of public transport, what happened to the ideas of extending the metro along Hagley Road and having more of a network of trams?

It comes down to money I guess. This is far cheaper to build than a full scale tramline.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on August 10, 2014, 11:50:19 AM
Quote from: D10 on August 10, 2014, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 09:51:44 AM
I don't see the point launching yet another type of public transport, what happened to the ideas of extending the metro along Hagley Road and having more of a network of trams?

It comes down to money I guess. This is far cheaper to build than a full scale tramline.

That's the issue with extending the Metro, you only have to look at how much the current Metro extension to New St station is costing, its the work involved in providing the infrastructure to run the trams on that makes the costs spiral.

Sprint will cost a fraction of that, as it can use the current roads with the addition of new stops/priority measures only . The trouble is Sprint is no different to First's 'FTR' project which never took off and First now seem to struggle to find a use for its 'FTR's' you've also got the added problem of finding garage space for what in effect will be artics again.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
But why a sprint bus route on the Hagley Rd where people on here have claimed previously an express bus will not work?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on August 10, 2014, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
But why a sprint bus route on the Hagley Rd where people on here have claimed previously an express bus will not work?

I can only assume that with Sprint will also come further bus lanes/bus priorities where the current peak time bottle necks occur?

Hagley Road 'Sprint' is forecast to cost £15 Million (Colmore Row to Quinton is just under 6 miles)

The current Metro extension from Snow Hill to New Street Station is costing £128 Million (0.7 mile)
The Metro extension from New Street to Centenary Square (new Library) is to cost £3 Million (Under a mile)
The proposed Metro extension from New Street to Curzon Street (New HS2 station) is forecast to cost £50 Million (Under a mile)

Metro route proposals:

Proposed Route1  - https://www.centro.org.uk/media/209716/Route-1.png
Proposed Route 2 - https://www.centro.org.uk/media/209717/Route-2.png

Looking at the proposed routes, particularly 'Route 1' this will no doubt force bus services to terminate even further out of City Centre, as it proposes to use both Lower Bull Street & Carrs Lane

The proposed Metro extension from Curzon St to a new Adderley St, Digbeth Park & Ride is forecast to cost £55 Million (around a mile)
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Sh4318 on August 10, 2014, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Winston on August 10, 2014, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
But why a sprint bus route on the Hagley Rd where people on here have claimed previously an express bus will not work?

I can only assume that with Sprint will also come further bus lanes/bus priorities where the current peak time bottle necks occur?

Hagley Road 'Sprint' is forecast to cost £15 Million (Colmore Row to Quinton is just under 6 miles)

The current Metro extension from Snow Hill to New Street Station is costing £128 Million (0.7 mile)
The Metro extension from New Street to Centenary Square (new Library) is to cost £3 Million (Under a mile)
The proposed Metro extension from New Street to Curzon Street (New HS2 station) is forecast to cost £50 Million (Under a mile)

Metro route proposals:

Proposed Route1  - https://www.centro.org.uk/media/209716/Route-1.png
Proposed Route 2 - https://www.centro.org.uk/media/209717/Route-2.png

Looking at the proposed routes, particularly 'Route 1' this will no doubt forces bus services to terminate even further out of City Centre, as it proposes to use both Lower Bull Street & Carrs Lane

The proposed Metro extension from Curzon St to a new Adderley St, Digbeth Park & Ride is forecast to cost £55 Million (around a mile)


Now they're just being ridiculous ::)
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: andrew1991 on August 10, 2014, 04:07:50 PM
I wonder if the long time ago proposed line from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill will now be changed to Sprint (Doubtful though)
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: Andrew on August 10, 2014, 04:07:50 PM
I wonder if the long time ago proposed line from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill will now be changed to Sprint (Doubtful though)

or maybe even just a normal train service?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Stu on August 10, 2014, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
But why a sprint bus route on the Hagley Rd where people on here have claimed previously an express bus will not work?

An express bus with the current road infrastructure wouldn't work, and I stand by my belief.

However, the introduction of the Sprint bus, in conjunction with the introduction of 'smart' traffic lights at junctions, that adjust when the Sprint bus is approaching, could work. There needs to be some sort of priority measures put in place for this, otherwise it just won't be any faster than the current bus services.

With my new flexible hours at work, I'm hoping to attend one of the exhibitions to have a look at any detailed proposals available, and of course make my own suggestions.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Isle of Stroma on August 11, 2014, 12:27:50 AM
Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
or maybe even just a normal train service?

Don't be daft, that suggestion is far too sensible for Centro to comprehend.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: trident4370 on August 11, 2014, 02:03:05 AM
I personally think Centro have an obsession with wasting money. Sprint is doomed to fail before its even launched going by other similar schemes, and I'd also note that NXWM have steered clear of ordering artics for 10 years now. I'm also confused as to how these multi million pound Metro extensions across the City Centre represent value for money if the planned new Metro "network" will instead end up being a cheaper Sprint network. All they have done is push out all the buses from the City Centre, just for the current Metro Line 1 at a cost of over £100 million (Edinburgh springs to mind). It's almost like buses are no longer welcome in the City Centre, the Curzon St extension will only drive more routes further out from Lower Bull St...

Instead of wasting the money on Sprint, a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, maybe Centro could instead try and build off the current Metro system using track already in place that has no local service, thus saving a decent amount of money on track? A similar "Tram-Train" is to be trialed in Sheffield soon and I see no reason why it couldn't work with the Metro. Off the top of my head, why not use the Washwood Heath and Sutton Park lines to run a new service to the Fort Shopping Centre, Castle Vale, Minworth and Sutton Coldfield. Maybe even the camp hill line that they keep saying will be reopened soon but you never hear about it again.

I may have missed a point or misunderstood but It does all seem like a very extravagant show to benefit a small minority at the moment. Rant over, sorry for going on!
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: P419 EJW on August 11, 2014, 02:55:00 AM
I feel trident4370 has a point there. I agree with him. If they decide to extend the Metro line to Curzon St then I would predict it would affect buses and they might have to move away to accommodate the tram lines to be installed and space for trams to transport. Imo, extending tram line would make people even more lazier. It's bad enough for the extension to New Street from Snow Hill. It is just couple of minutes extra walk from Snow Hill to New Street. Now, there is a line, it would make them lazy. Okay, you could say well... It would save them time, etc etc.

Sprint on Hagley Road. Oh... Dear... What is wrong with 9, 140, 141? Why do they need to put Sprint? It's like putting an extra route on a busy road where other routes are going in the same direction. I've been told by NWM that Sprint will be on a special lane, does that mean they will use one out of two/three lanes only for Sprint and other one/two lanes will be for public? I personally feel Sprint project is a waste and unnecessary. I'm still unclear on why Centro is thinking to have Sprint project. Anyone could help to answer this for me?
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Niall on August 12, 2014, 11:14:00 PM
From my experience the main problem on the Hagley Road is getting out of the City Centre. Around 4-7pm it usually takes 20 minutes or so just to get to Edgbaston. If Sprint goes ahead, it means putting in place priority measures to allow it to be faster than other traffic. It would be much more beneficial imo to have a bus lane (although with the limited road space this would be at the cost of other road users), even if only as far as somewhere like the Ivy Bush would be a great improvement, if they're going to do it anyway. Many more people and routes benefit and Sprint not necessary unless they intend to miss stops, in which case just start an express service. Most of the route runs as fast as it can anyway. There doesn't seem to be as much of a problem going into city - i've certainly never had a problem in the morning except incidents like RTAs - although I can't really comment on evenings atm.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
So TFWM have confirmed that there are going to be three new routes for Sprint:
Birmingham to Sutton Coldfield
Birmingham to Walsall
Birmingham to NEC/Solihull

These routes are expected to be operating by 2022. So what does that mean for routes like the 51, 67, X1, X2, X14 and the X51. Will their routes be changed or even withdrawn because of Sprint? We have seen it before with the 79 when it was cut to West Bromwich because of the Metro being a faster route to Wolves from Birmingham.

@Busboy105 - Please check & search before starting more new threads, there are already numerous Sprint threads, doesn't need another one.... Winston
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: 2206 on September 24, 2019, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
So TFWM have confirmed that there are going to be three new routes for Sprint:
Birmingham to Sutton Coldfield
Birmingham to Walsall
Birmingham to NEC/Solihull

These routes are expected to be operating by 2022. So what does that mean for routes like the 51, 67, X1, X2, X14 and the X51. Will their routes be changed or even withdrawn because of Sprint? We have seen it before with the 79 when it was cut to West Bromwich because of the Metro being a faster route to Wolves from Birmingham.

@Busboy105 - Please check & search before starting more new threads, there are already numerous Sprint threads, doesn't need another one.... Winston
Only going as far as the Airport and Great Barr as well initially I think it was said.
I Wander what that means for passengers going to Solihull, Walsall and Coventry.
So hopefully some service remains.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 01:07:59 PM
I mean looking at those routes, the X1 would probably run between the Airport and Coventry but could extend beyond Coventry to University Hospital or another popular place in Coventry. The 51 and the X2 will probably be withdrawn and the X51 will be be cut to run between Walsall and Cannock.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on September 24, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 01:07:59 PM
I mean looking at those routes, the X1 would probably run between the Airport and Coventry but could extend beyond Coventry to University Hospital or another popular place in Coventry. The 51 and the X2 will probably be withdrawn and the X51 will be be cut to run between Walsall and Cannock.

That all depends of who will end up running Sprint (hopefully there's still time for TfWM to see sense & drop the daft artics idea....). All the services you are suggesting could be withdrawn are busy commercial services. Why should NX simply just withdraw them to make way for Sprint ??
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 02:47:19 PM
You're right.. they are quite busy routes but their frequency and route would change a lot.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: winston on September 24, 2019, 04:14:29 PM
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 24, 2019, 02:47:19 PM
You're right.. they are quite busy routes but their frequency and route would change a lot.

Say's who? Only if it's in NX's interest to change them, otherwise they could compete directly with Sprint.
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: karl724223 on September 24, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
Hagley road sprint idea dropped ??
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: CL on September 24, 2019, 06:08:14 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on September 24, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
Hagley road sprint idea dropped ??
Probably not viable at the moment, with the extension of the Metro to Edgbaston ???
Title: Re: Midland Metro & Sprint
Post by: Stu on September 24, 2019, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on September 24, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
Hagley road sprint idea dropped ??

Quote from: CL on September 24, 2019, 06:08:14 PM
Probably not viable at the moment, with the extension of the Metro to Edgbaston ???

I seem to recall reading a while back about this that the 'Sprint' routes were potential fore-runners to Metro extensions, in other words for example a Sprint route would be introduced onto the Hagley Road and if it worked out, then it would become a tram route. Certainly with the Metro extension works being carried out at present, it may appear that this 'stage of development' may be being skipped out.

Since the winning of the Commonwealth Games in 2022, the 'plan' was altered somewhat so that the A34, A45 and Sutton Coldfield Sprint routes got pushed to the front of the queue in order for them to be up and running before then.