WM Bus Photos Forum

West Midlands Buses in Discussion => National Express West Midlands => Topic started by: RW on February 21, 2014, 06:56:20 PM

Title: Let's show our pride!
Post by: RW on February 21, 2014, 06:56:20 PM
Spending the weekend in Leeds and struck by the new First Group livery in that it includes the name of the area that vehicles operate in such as  Leeds, Bradford, York etc. Shows a degree of pride in being part of the infrastructure of those areas. Why don't NX adopt a similar approach? Coventry is allowed to incorporate the City's name (and even the local football teams colours) and so is Dundee but the rest of us have to be grouped together under 'West Midlands' a name created purely for local government purposes and not even used by the majority of residents and businesses as part of its postal address. So why can't we have 'national express BIRMINGHAM & SOLIHULL, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, WALSALL and WOLVERHAMPTON'. Why can't NX share the pride we have in the names of our towns and cities? We are not embarrassed by our roots. Are NX? No, then prove it.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Roy on February 21, 2014, 07:02:41 PM
Worst don't do that everywhere.  Bristol, which is one of most historic and largest cities, is referred to as WEST OF ENGLAND by that apology for a bus company.   
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Tony on February 21, 2014, 07:03:30 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 06:56:20 PM
Spending the weekend in Leeds and struck by the new First Group livery in that it includes the name of the area that vehicles operate in such as  Leeds, Bradford, York etc. Shows a degree of pride in being part of the infrastructure of those areas. Why don't NX adopt a similar approach? Coventry is allowed to incorporate the City's name (and even the local football teams colours) and so is Dundee but the rest of us have to be grouped together under 'West Midlands' a name created purely for local government purposes and not even used by the majority of residents and businesses as part of its postal address. So why can't we have 'national express BIRMINGHAM & SOLIHULL, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, WALSALL and WOLVERHAMPTON'. Why can't NX share the pride we have in the names of our towns and cities? We are not embarrassed by our roots. Are NX? No, then prove it.

The West Midlands is the most practical name to use, very few services now stay within one Town/City. Why do you want Sandwell if you don't want West Midlands? Should buses on the 126 have NX Wolverhampton; NX Dudley; NX Sandwell; NX Birmingham all on the side?

Why do you not want Stourbridge, Bilston, Willenhall? All towns in their own right just as much as Dudley & Solihull, and certainly more so than Sandwell
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: nitromatt1 on February 21, 2014, 07:08:25 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 06:56:20 PM
Spending the weekend in Leeds and struck by the new First Group livery in that it includes the name of the area that vehicles operate in such as  Leeds, Bradford, York etc. Shows a degree of pride in being part of the infrastructure of those areas. Why don't NX adopt a similar approach? Coventry is allowed to incorporate the City's name (and even the local football teams colours) and so is Dundee but the rest of us have to be grouped together under 'West Midlands' a name created purely for local government purposes and not even used by the majority of residents and businesses as part of its postal address. So why can't we have 'national express BIRMINGHAM & SOLIHULL, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, WALSALL and WOLVERHAMPTON'. Why can't NX share the pride we have in the names of our towns and cities? We are not embarrassed by our roots. Are NX? No, then prove it.

The Nimbuses (or 'Nimbi'?!!) at Worcester also have Worcester on the side, I saw one quite far from home once on Smallbrook Queensway, need I name the service.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Liberator9 on February 21, 2014, 07:12:24 PM
Wouldn't be practical to have so many names; apart from what the 126 for example would have there is also the issue of when buses are transferred or loaned to other garages. Take for example if a WA Scania was loaned to AG. If the WA Scania had Walsall on it and operating on the 37 it would look messy and confusing for some even. Plus if a bus did change garage then the name tag needs changing and may leave the previous mark just visible on the paintwork. I'd be happy with a livery that actually was historical colours, such as the blue and cream, instead of the bland red and white. I could just imagine blue and cream on this style!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dbdi/8234907159/sizes/z/in/photolist-dxG3ZV-7LeMNL-aoEFUD-bkq84W-aqe3PR-8K4n9n-8FoQ2S-aqgJPb-dc2dYH-aw2dap-9Wc96J-9HM99i-arkkpF-arkjcp-8FAwCC-auBBjG-dKb1ti-8aefdK-crDUAA-8Eh9MX-bxbjXJ-9kFTTk-du2edF-9TrJCD-bdU1nX-bhCvv6-bcS9yR-7UuFCp-dcVHG1-abL49f-8otchs-aoKFJE-dcNFPz-atnSko-dj2XWA-7zYapt-dcNJiY-bBG2mg-dkP5i4-dkP5g8-aoS3WW-88AJeh-88xu5X-88AHH7-9vxo6F-88xwxn-88xvfz-88AJtu-dkxYJ9-cgDUxW-d1upim/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dbdi/8234907159/sizes/z/in/photolist-dxG3ZV-7LeMNL-aoEFUD-bkq84W-aqe3PR-8K4n9n-8FoQ2S-aqgJPb-dc2dYH-aw2dap-9Wc96J-9HM99i-arkkpF-arkjcp-8FAwCC-auBBjG-dKb1ti-8aefdK-crDUAA-8Eh9MX-bxbjXJ-9kFTTk-du2edF-9TrJCD-bdU1nX-bhCvv6-bcS9yR-7UuFCp-dcVHG1-abL49f-8otchs-aoKFJE-dcNFPz-atnSko-dj2XWA-7zYapt-dcNJiY-bBG2mg-dkP5i4-dkP5g8-aoS3WW-88AJeh-88xu5X-88AHH7-9vxo6F-88xwxn-88xvfz-88AJtu-dkxYJ9-cgDUxW-d1upim/)
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: trident4370 on February 21, 2014, 07:17:09 PM
Until recently there was a facebook page dedicated to getting Coventry buses rebranded back to NXWM, imagine the campaigns if NXWM was split up...
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on February 21, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
What about National Express Birmingham & The Black Country?
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: uniquicity on February 21, 2014, 07:19:50 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 21, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
What about National Express Birmingham & The Black Country?

You'll need a fleet of bendybuses for that long a name.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Trident 4609 on February 21, 2014, 07:26:24 PM
Didn't buses have local fleetnames back in the early 90's?As with various comments already made if you have loans or transfers to other garages it will look out of place. There are various photos on flickr of PB Metrobuses on loan to Park Lane with Perry Barr fleetnames
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: PM on February 21, 2014, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 21, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
What about National Express Birmingham & The Black Country?

Again, some services cross over and it would kind of be pointless. As has been said, taking it ad extremis, where do you stop? Network Harborne anyone when many of the buses went to many different places besides Harborne. I think West Midlands is perfectly fine.

Yes, West Midlands Buses and then Yardley Wood for instance. A 90s experiment that clearly didn't work
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: winston on February 21, 2014, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Nathan on February 21, 2014, 07:26:24 PM
Didn't buses have local fleetnames back in the early 90's?As with various comments already made if you have loans or transfers to other garages it will look out of place. There are various photos on flickr of PB Metrobuses on loan to Park Lane with Perry Barr fleetnames

Yes back in the days of WMBuses they carried the name of the depot they were allocated too
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: RW on February 21, 2014, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry Tony but Bilston is part of Wolverhampton, Willenhall is part of Walsall. Stourbridge is not part of West Midlands so that name already has no relevance to that town and Coventry uses the District Name already so what about transfers/loans from that depot now? Why are people so opposed to change. It might just give people more ownership of the major provider of public transport in the region which can only be of benefit to NX. Seems some opposition is based purely on the view of a certain bus company and nothing to do with the suggestion itself.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Trident 4609 on February 21, 2014, 07:59:23 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry Tony but Bilston is part of Wolverhampton, Willenhall is part of Walsall. Stourbridge is not part of West Midlands so that name already has no relevance to that town and Coventry uses the District Name already so what about transfers/loans from that depot now? Why are people so opposed to change. It might just give people more ownership of the major provider of public transport in the region which can only be of benefit to NX. Seems some opposition is based purely on the view of a certain bus company and nothing to do with the suggestion itself.

Err Stourbridge is part of the West Midlands. Its in the Dudley Borough!
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: PM on February 21, 2014, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry Tony but Bilston is part of Wolverhampton, Willenhall is part of Walsall. Stourbridge is not part of West Midlands so that name already has no relevance to that town and Coventry uses the District Name already so what about transfers/loans from that depot now? Why are people so opposed to change. It might just give people more ownership of the major provider of public transport in the region which can only be of benefit to NX. Seems some opposition is based purely on the view of a certain bus company and nothing to do with the suggestion itself.

The opposition is purely practical. The many companies do not always show where they actually operate eg Yellow Buses, Hansons, Diamond, even Trent Barton doesn't entirely describe where their buses run and the same with McGills-I don't really think people need Birmingham written on the side and West Midlands is pretty good as it is and more than you get from a lot of companies. There are more important things than pointless name changes...
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Trident 4609 on February 21, 2014, 08:09:50 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry Tony but Bilston is part of Wolverhampton, Willenhall is part of Walsall. Stourbridge is not part of West Midlands so that name already has no relevance to that town and Coventry uses the District Name already so what about transfers/loans from that depot now? Why are people so opposed to change. It might just give people more ownership of the major provider of public transport in the region which can only be of benefit to NX. Seems some opposition is based purely on the view of a certain bus company and nothing to do with the suggestion itself.

I'm sorry but you can't critisise the fact some people have opposing views! Not all people are going to agree and it is a forum so we should listen to each others views :)
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Tony on February 21, 2014, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry Tony but Bilston is part of Wolverhampton, Willenhall is part of Walsall. Stourbridge is not part of West Midlands so that name already has no relevance to that town and Coventry uses the District Name already so what about transfers/loans from that depot now? Why are people so opposed to change. It might just give people more ownership of the major provider of public transport in the region which can only be of benefit to NX. Seems some opposition is based purely on the view of a certain bus company and nothing to do with the suggestion itself.

Check you history, until 1974 Bilston & Willenhall were seperate towns in their own right, and in fact up until 1st May 1900 Bilston even had its own company - Bilston & District Tramways! They were only merged into Wolverhampton and Walsall 'for political convenience' which is why you are so opposed to the name West Midlands!

Here is an extract from the history of Wolverhampton Tramways
'On the 17th December 1900, the Wolverhampton District Electric Tramways Company Limited was registered to purchase the assets of the 'Bilston & District Tramways' from the BET. The Bilston Tramway was acquired on the 1st May 1900 and was previously that part of the Wolverhampton Tramways Company's horse-tramway that lay outside the Wolverhampton town boundary'

Note the comment The Bilston Tramway......that lay outside the Wolverhampton town boundary

Sandwell which you suggested putting on the side of buses didn't even exist when I was first interested in buses. The six towns of Sandwell Oldbury, Rowley Regis, Smethwick, Tipton, Wednesbury and West Bromwich all had their own councils and were independant of each other. They were also merged for 'politcal convenience' Perhaps we ought to have National Express Rowley Regis?
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Mike K on February 21, 2014, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 21, 2014, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 21, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
What about National Express Birmingham & The Black Country?

Again, some services cross over and it would kind of be pointless. As has been said, taking it ad extremis, where do you stop? Network Harborne anyone when many of the buses went to many different places besides Harborne. I think West Midlands is perfectly fine.

Yes, West Midlands Buses and then Yardley Wood for instance. A 90s experiment that clearly didn't work

Network Harborne was something very different, it was route branding of around 55 buses, not local identity naming. The buses still carried TWM fleetnames. It just so happened all routes served Harborne and in many respects it was no different to the Sutton Lines branding.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Liverpool Street on February 21, 2014, 08:40:10 PM
National Express Buses

Need I say more?
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Russ Smith on February 21, 2014, 09:26:45 PM
Up here in Leeds we have very few buses which cross boundaries into another town/city, and when these do, they don't carry the LEEDS or BRADFORD etc logo down the side of the bus - they're blank. With so many routes crossing boundaries in an area as dense as the West Midlands, this would result in most buses being unbranded, with just a few which remain wholly in a town branded, which would look pretty weird
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: PM on February 21, 2014, 10:33:32 PM
Exactly as has been said-this works well in somewhere with clearly defined city boundaries like Preston Bus, Network Warrington with services mostly run within the city boundary. This wouldn't be the case in the west midlands...
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: 4006 on February 22, 2014, 02:50:34 AM
Quote from: RW on February 21, 2014, 06:56:20 PM
Spending the weekend in Leeds and struck by the new First Group livery in that it includes the name of the area that vehicles operate in such as  Leeds, Bradford, York etc. Shows a degree of pride in being part of the infrastructure of those areas. Why don't NX adopt a similar approach? Coventry is allowed to incorporate the City's name (and even the local football teams colours) and so is Dundee but the rest of us have to be grouped together under 'West Midlands' a name created purely for local government purposes and not even used by the majority of residents and businesses as part of its postal address. So why can't we have 'national express BIRMINGHAM & SOLIHULL, SANDWELL & DUDLEY, WALSALL and WOLVERHAMPTON'. Why can't NX share the pride we have in the names of our towns and cities? We are not embarrassed by our roots. Are NX? No, then prove it.

As with most company's in life now It's not about pride anymore its about profit! & other things I darn't mention. NX days with buses are numbered...it's just a matter of time
In the future, blow this back in my face if you are able to :) :) :)
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Stuharris 6360 on February 22, 2014, 11:04:29 AM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on February 21, 2014, 08:40:10 PM
National Express Buses

Need I say more?

Exactly LS with one standard livery, then when buses transfer between Coventry, Dundee & the West Midlands, no repaints.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: arrifirststage on February 22, 2014, 01:39:50 PM
This,to some extent,has already been tried once.......WMPTE buses had fleetnames that included the garage names for a short while.....only succeeded in making the fleetnames absurdly long and certainly meant nothing to the passengers.
Why cannot we get back to running buses,not treating the whole thing as some silly PR gimmick?
While we are at it ,PLEASE STOP this daft branding and naming stunt...............just typical of modern day shallowness and frivolity
BAH HUMBUG
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Sh4318 on February 22, 2014, 02:17:57 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: JoNi on February 22, 2014, 04:20:18 PM
It's amazing how many times things go round in circles.
London's buses are all red again, how long before that changes again. Keeps faceless people in jobs, with the exception of Best Impressions, whose liveries are imaginative and first class.





Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Stu on February 22, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
I'm happy to be a resident of the West Midlands, and have lived here all my life and always known it as the West Midlands.

Okay, I might think slightly differently now I live in Birmingham (and have been for the last five years), so I miss out West Midlands in my postal address, but it's not a big deal. Birmingham is part of the West Midlands, I understand that.

On the other hand, while I was born in Dudley, I grew up and spent much of my life living in Oldbury. Now on the other hand, I never accepted 'Sandwell' as the place I lived in, and always put my postal address as 'Oldbury, West Midlands'. (And when people if I asked me if I was from Birmingham... grr!)

To be honest, National Express is just continuing a trend that has gone back years: West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive (WMPTE), West Midlands Travel (WMT), Travel West Midlands (TWM), and now National Express West Midlands (NXWM). 'West Midlands' has always historically been part of the 'brand name' of our main local bus company, so let's be proud of that fact.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Bob on February 22, 2014, 05:25:58 PM
Cannock and Hednesford were supposed to become part of the west midlands in 1974 but oddly were swapped  late in the day to put Coventry in...as far as transport gos it was daft as far more bus routes from places like cannock entered the wm than did and still do from Coventry
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: richie on February 23, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
I think it looks very odd when a WN B7 runs on the 255E to blaze park and above the doors it states that the bus operator is proud to carry the people of wolverhampton. Why arnt they proad to carry the people of Bromley?
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Trident 4609 on February 23, 2014, 12:47:13 PM
Quote from: richie on February 23, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
I think it looks very odd when a WN B7 runs on the 255E to blaze park and above the doors it states that the bus operator is proud to carry the people of wolverhampton. Why arnt they proad to carry the people of Bromley?

Because they aren't the usual allocation. Just allocated on Sundays. I suppose you can apply the same thing to any other area a WN B7 goes through?
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Westy on February 23, 2014, 01:16:32 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Wmpte have some involvement with the old Midland Red Chaserider brand in the early 80's?

Sure I read it somewhere.
Title: Re: Let's show our pride!
Post by: Bob on February 23, 2014, 06:24:43 PM
Yes lots of routes changed hands...eg the 390 ( I think) between cannock anx lichfield became chaserider 860 ( todays 60) and routes between cannock and rugeley cannock n hazelslade etc mid red took them over too. I think it was in exchange for wmpte having exclusivity on the Hednesford to walsall network of routes.  Midland red withdrew their 865 between stafford and walsall around this time.  The connection with midland red and wumpty was the Chaserider livery the logo was a Claret coloured band. Claret represented a mixture of red ( MR) & blue ( WMPTE)...