Over the last 3 weeks, 4 buses i have been travelling on. the driver has refused to move from a stop until a fare dodger gets off the bus... This causes issues with other passengers quite often telling the driver to get a move on...
I am however in the frame of mind that the driver shouldn't move until they get off or are removed by police, I would rather sit there for 20 minutes rather than them get away with it.
What are other peoples thoughts on this?
The bus driver can't win either way, and it's one of the reasons I feel sorry for them sometimes.
As a selfish as it sounds, it depends on the circumstance. While I always believe you should pay for something, if I have somewhere to be and the bus driver will make me late by waiting for them to get off / calling the police etc. then yeah, I'll get extremely annoyed.
Most of the time though, from my experience, fare dodgers just get off and try again with the next bus behind it. It doesn't solve the issue, but it never really causes a major hassle. In general though, it is incredibly annoying to know that you've paid for your journey and then someone gets on with an invalid ticket and they're allowed to just get away with it. Some people just think they can get away with anything.
Yeah, it is rather annoying when this happens because the driver is just stuck between a rock and a hard place, mind you once on the 3 one irate guy went upstairs and literally dragged one fare dodger off the bus by his hoodie, he came down to applause from the pensioner brigade and the driver seemed rather grateful too! I know most drivers I see just ignore them and leave them to it, personally I wish more would make a stand but is it really worth it half the time with all the abuse they can get?
I had a bad experience before on a bus with a far dodger a lady got on the 404 in West Brom about 6/7 years ago the pass was out of date and the driver took if off her, she mouthed off opened the cab door and started hitting the driver and shouting abuse. eventually the women got of the bus with a commotion and the driver which suprsingly the bus was a b6le 623 to be exact put is his foot down to drive off quickly before she got on never noticed the merc on the 74 in front and slammed on his brakes, at this time an old lady boarding the bus got thrown down the bus and hit her head with other passengers banging their faces off hand rails and the poles. The inspectors got involved and everyone who was shaken up or injured got seen to with bus being made to pull in, i only hit the side of my face so got off and caught the 404 behind. All this due to a lady having and out of date pass and the driver taking it off her and from this innocent people get hurt. Untill something like an oyster card system is brought in i dont see how it can be avoided.
That's pretty bad... although occasionally you get really amusing fare dodging incidents.
I was on the 27 once and a woman got on with an out of date pass, the driver told her to get off and she started mouthing off. She then accused him of racism, and he started arguing back about how she was just being stupid. She then called him every name under the sun and for some reason got off the bus momentarily. The driver then asked her to get back on, and as she went to do it he closed the doors in her face and drove off laughing, with the whole bus laughing along with him. It was pretty great.
Quote from: Ash on May 10, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
I had a bad experience before on a bus with a far dodger a lady got on the 404 in West Brom about 6/7 years ago the pass was out of date and the driver took if off her, she mouthed off opened the cab door and started hitting the driver and shouting abuse. eventually the women got of the bus with a commotion and the driver which suprsingly the bus was a b6le 623 to be exact put is his foot down to drive off quickly before she got on never noticed the merc on the 74 in front and slammed on his brakes, at this time an old lady boarding the bus got thrown down the bus and hit her head with other passengers banging their faces off hand rails and the poles. The inspectors got involved and everyone who was shaken up or injured got seen to with bus being made to pull in, i only hit the side of my face so got off and caught the 404 behind. All this due to a lady having and out of date pass and the driver taking it off her and from this innocent people get hurt. Untill something like an oyster card system is brought in i dont see how it can be avoided.
You dont seam to get this problem as much with other bus companys! Green Bus Co have the best strategy. Forget daysavers, dodgy returns being used over and over again, forget the 20mile £1.70 short hops....... its a flat fare!..1 price one ticket one way travel end of. Even half of the OAP/Disabled cards are fake,stolen or tampered with these days but to be fair I don't believe so much it is the system in place that is the problem its the way it is enforced that is!
One thing they seem to do through BC routes is to report people who haven't got a pass on the radio and for people to ignor them, probably one of the better ideas.
I think they need to improve fare dogdeing systems on the trains though, as it just seems far too easy to get away with it.
One problem with the day saver tickets is that the ticket type and the printing machines are too old and out of date, the dates are small and hard to read and sometimes the ink does not print it great, whereas diamond has much better tickets vertical tickets with the date and type of ticket in large black bold print, so at least the driver can see wether the ticket is out of date or not some people flash the ticket that fast or upside down the driver needs to be lighting speed just to make out date and ticket type, its like the cash vault they dont seem to be made for cash notes the driver often has to poke something down the vault to push the notes in.
I was on a 6 heading out a few days ago and got held up by a combination of ticket inspectors and a transport police woman in digbeth.a young woman with a pushchair was told to get off which she did (eventualy).What annoyed me was the time taken to sort it out followed by a check on everybody else.years ago an inspector would often be seen with his clipboard skipping from one bus to another almost at random.where are they now? >:(
on the subject of drivers standing on the brake (for whatever reason) I was unlucky to find myself making my way down the lower deck of a 451 in west brom.when the driver made a hard brake to avoid a pedestrian.With a carrier bag on my left arm and my pass in my right hand I made an immidiate grab for the nearest pole.(not a clever thing to do with a thin piece of plastic in your hand) I now have a travel pass with a minor split in it which refuses to register on the scanner.fortunatly most vehs have a manual register now. YES I know I can get a replacement card in summer lane-They want 7 quid...
Whenever I've seen people caught fare dodging the driver has generally just turned the engine off and refused to move, this must be more or less the norm...
as people say, the driver can't win. if we challenge the out of date pass and are abused, the company wont back us up half the time and often bollock us for disrupting the service and losing the company money (ironic i know).
we have been told to let them on and press an anomoly button on the ticket machine which "marks" the dodgy place on a map on a computer and apparantly every so often the revenue come out and look at the route.
some routes are better than others though - a good example for me was i did 17 trips a couple of weeks ago on the 451 and only came across about 2 out of date passes (sounds dirty i know ;D). fast forward to the sunday two trips on the 402A and nearly every other pass was out of date.
i also remember about two years ago someone didnt pay the correct fare and went upstairs, so i turned the bus off. he came back down and paid what he owed, and do you think the bus would start again.................
That's unfortunate wbdriver and although I have never been on a bus that has failed to restart there have been some close calls, especially on the 257 when it reaches Gornal, most drivers will switch off even if there's only a two minute wait. I presume this switching off and then quickly switching back on doesn't do the engine much good and we have often had to wait 2 or 3 minutes before a WN Trident would start back into life
Yeah. I completely agree, I've only been checked on the Wolverhampton to New St line once in my entire life
Quote from: Phil on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 PM
One thing they seem to do through BC routes is to report people who haven't got a pass on the radio and for people to ignor them, probably one of the better ideas.
I think they need to improve fare dogdeing systems on the trains though, as it just seems far too easy to get away with it.
Quote from: wbdriver on May 11, 2012, 08:58:26 AM
as people say, the driver can't win. if we challenge the out of date pass and are abused, the company wont back us up half the time and often bollock us for disrupting the service and losing the company money (ironic i know).
we have been told to let them on and press an anomoly button on the ticket machine which "marks" the dodgy place on a map on a computer and apparantly every so often the revenue come out and look at the route.
some routes are better than others though - a good example for me was i did 17 trips a couple of weeks ago on the 451 and only came across about 2 out of date passes (sounds dirty i know ;D). fast forward to the sunday two trips on the 402A and nearly every other pass was out of date.
i also remember about two years ago someone didnt pay the correct fare and went upstairs, so i turned the bus off. he came back down and paid what he owed, and do you think the bus would start again.................
The bus wouldnt start again it wouldnt be a volvo b6le by any chance would it :) at least the mercs are put on the 401/2/2A now
no it was a president on the 451 in pheasey i think 4047 off the top of my head but not 100% sure but i have had b6s not starting in the bus station and garage before. vile things worst buses in the fleet lol
Quote from: wbdriver on May 11, 2012, 06:44:21 PM
no it was a president on the 451 in pheasey i think 4047 off the top of my head but not 100% sure but i have had b6s not starting in the bus station and garage before. vile things worst buses in the fleet lol
Certain drivers are relucant to turn there engines off on certain routes, i rember when i was on the 23 near woodgate park when it was plaxton operated an some1 tried to fare dodge so the driver turned the engine off and it wouldnt come back on,
Fare dodgeing appears mainly on 28/28E/74/75 because of all the youths that travel on it
Quote from: wbdriver on May 11, 2012, 06:44:21 PM
no it was a president on the 451 in pheasey i think 4047 off the top of my head but not 100% sure but i have had b6s not starting in the bus station and garage before. vile things worst buses in the fleet lol
Sorry forgot you said they went upstairs so of course it wasnt a b6le my mistake, as a WB driver what is your favourite route, bus type and any particular bus you like driving out of WB garage?
well ash, apart from sundays, i only drive the 451 but before i only did the route, i quite liked the 688 (because it goes by where i live), 405 (plenty of time on route, no need to rush), 414, 644 (mainly pensioners but decent pensioners not your moaning gits lol) and before it changed, the 448 (when it just went to the QE and when metros were on it).
i like driving the 47xx geminis comfortable and a change from the presidents on the 451 but its very rare to get one of those.
Favourite bus - i would say 4295 because it was the first bus i drove at the garage after i passed my test :)
Thanks your opinions WB driver, the 405/6 seem to have got better they always seem to run late before but i think they have timetable adjustments and its helped improve it, the best bit of the ride on the 405 is charlemount farm a steep hill always think the b6le may conk out and break down lol
Quote from: NathanJC on May 11, 2012, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: wbdriver link=topic=259.msg4589#msg4589 date=1336758261
Fare dodgeing appears mainly on 28/28E/74/75 because of all the youths that travel on it
/quote]
Might it be the areas it runs through a question for tony are revenue only intrested in trunk routes (all ones into wolves or bham/cov) as they are hardly ever in other areas many local area routes are rife with fare dodgers seems like they are scared as they only do these with police help if they are bothered
Now you are talking rubbish Dave, I have checked on almost every Wolverhampton route this year without police, and I am one of 23.
Quote from: Discodave on May 16, 2012, 10:31:13 AM
Quote from: NathanJC on May 11, 2012, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: wbdriver link=topic=259.msg4589#msg4589 date=1336758261
Fare dodgeing appears mainly on 28/28E/74/75 because of all the youths that travel on it
/quote]
Might it be the areas it runs through a question for tony are revenue only intrested in trunk routes (all ones into wolves or bham/cov) as they are hardly ever in other areas many local area routes are rife with fare dodgers seems like they are scared as they only do these with police help if they are bothered
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2012, 08:30:32 PM
Now you are talking rubbish Dave, I have checked on almost every Wolverhampton route this year without police, and I am one of 23.
The 25/25A in Wolverhampton runs through areas with a bad reputation such as Whitmore Reans, Wednesfield, Willenhall, Low Hill, The Scotlands but although passenger numbers are not high there is not much fare dodging or anti-social stuff on the routes. Maybe a factor is that single deckers are used in the main as I think previously mentioned somewhere and also that they link more traditional shopping areas such as Bilston, Willenhall and Wednesfield markets so its not just the area they run through. As for the 28 if it is the Wolves 28 you relate to there is never any trouble on it mainly OAP's doing shopping!
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2012, 08:30:32 PM
Now you are talking rubbish Dave, I have checked on almost every Wolverhampton route this year without police, and I am one of 23.
It was only ever the 51 I was checked when I changed rota, then Garage to Wolves never saw revenue again lots used to get on the 126 in brum with black country area passes how about being at birchley crossing and doing a check there on the birmingham side to catch them out hope that helps.
In my lifetime I've had 5 proper revenue inspections (2 of which have been in the past two weeks) and not including Revenue checking whilst travelling to/from Miller Street.
3 of these have been on the X51 and 1 on the 51 (all 4 at different stops and 2 have been Safer Travel checks).
The other was at the most random stop on the Staffordshire/Walsall border on the Walsall 6 route. I would never have put money on being done there.
The 51 stopped was the most successful in terms of getting people off, there was one person off on two of the X51s, and the 6 and another X51 check (on a full bus at 0800) had no fare dodgers on.
I guess in reality a revenue inspector has to 'pay for themselves' and so it makes sense to operate on a busy corridor, with more buses and more passengers. What I found odd was the 6 inspection was at stop where if they also crossed the road they'd be checking 4 buses an hour, whereas if they'd stood just after Aldridge or before Mere Green they'd have checked 6 per direction an hour, with mostly the same passengers.
For the first time today in my whole NXWM bus experience over a good few years I witnessed a driver actually asking a passenger how far they wanted to travel when they put in £1.70 and low and behold it was far more than the two fare stages so the driver forced the passenger to put in 20p more or get off the bus. As I said I have never seen this before when a passenger puts in £1.70 the driver just prints the ticket and thats that and the passenger completes whatever journey they want.
My idea would be this, how about just remove the £1.70 bracket as I have only ever see it be abused and surely this makes a loss, and take the £1.90 down to £1.80?? This will get more money off those who abuse the £1.70 bracket and provide HUGE advertising potential especially as the economy is in such a mess and would encourage people onto the buses, especially if this is the only thing that is going down in price at the moment. Any thoughts anyone? Oh and also I think it would be absolute suicide if a single ticket went above the £2 bracket in the West Midlands
The fares could be like how there are for NX Coventry one flat fare of £1.70 no matter what distance (apart from the £1 city hop fare of which drivers still charge people £1.70 from the rail station to pool meadow) but would be an increased price for NXWM or just make it all £1.90 no matter what the distance as im sure NXWM will not reduce it to £1.80. but i guess this is why the £1.7- fare is so close to the £1.90 fare becuase of people not paying the correct amount.
Quote from: Discodave on May 17, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2012, 08:30:32 PM
Now you are talking rubbish Dave, I have checked on almost every Wolverhampton route this year without police, and I am one of 23.
It was only ever the 51 I was checked when I changed rota, then Garage to Wolves never saw revenue again lots used to get on the 126 in brum with black country area passes how about being at birchley crossing and doing a check there on the birmingham side to catch them out hope that helps.
Or even better check them a couple of stops after Wolves bus station or 1st stop AFTER Bearwood or even on Broad St. on the way in or out. Dodgers generally dont hang around bus stations/major stops...more chance of getting caught! Get on just before or aqfter Dudley and your bound to get ticket dodgers, weed users and fag smokers. Trust me!
Quote from: 4006 on May 17, 2012, 07:52:06 PM
Quote from: Discodave on May 17, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2012, 08:30:32 PM
Now you are talking rubbish Dave, I have checked on almost every Wolverhampton route this year without police, and I am one of 23.
It was only ever the 51 I was checked when I changed rota, then Garage to Wolves never saw revenue again lots used to get on the 126 in brum with black country area passes how about being at birchley crossing and doing a check there on the birmingham side to catch them out hope that helps.
Or even better check them a couple of stops after Wolves bus station or 1st stop AFTER Bearwood or even on Broad St. on the way in or out. Dodgers generally dont hang around bus stations/major stops...more chance of getting caught! Get on just before or aqfter Dudley and your bound to get ticket dodgers, weed users and fag smokers. Trust me!
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/2001-2129/2082.html
photo taken at a completely random stop on the 126 route while I was stood there with police doing revenue and ASB checks. One of several times I, personally, have done the 126 route in the last couple of months. Let alone the rest of the revenue team. As for where I will be tommorow, and what time, I cannot say on here, until afterwards but it defies most of the posts on here.
Well I for one salute the work that the revenue protection team does, and the more fare-dodgers that get caught and punished the better!
Can you say whether you catch many people out using and abusing the £1 City Hop fares? For example, I would imagine that teams would regularly be positioned at stops just outside this zone, and buses leaving the city would be checked.
The 126 has a somewhat good reputation however there is just as many problems on this route in regards to ticket fraud , anti-social, and smoking as on other routes and it is good to hear revenue/police are present however personally I have never seen it. Everybody can't be everywhere at once I agree and as the rule goes the minute authority arrives the scum bags are no-where to be seen! the customers will never change, maybe the system is at fault!
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/4475-4699/4586.html
This photo was taken when doing revenue checks in the opposite direction at a random stop on the 1, just to prove it is not just routes to Birmingham that get checked.
(I have never seen anybody abusing the £1 city fare yet!)
Quote from: Tony on May 17, 2012, 08:52:05 PM
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/4475-4699/4586.html
This photo was taken when doing revenue checks in the opposite direction at a random stop on the 1, just to prove it is not just routes to Birmingham that get checked.
(I have never seen anybody abusing the £1 city fare yet!)
I saw you down that end on that day. I was on 106 on the 558 that day.
Currently sat on the 2217 train home after a 10pm finish revenue checking on the 74/75 and 126
I would think a few people got taken off the 74/75 services
I have seen checks just outside sutton during the mornings and seen loads of college kids get done there! seems a good spot! Also most people just walk away if there are no police present?
I've seen that a couple of times. With no police there the chavs just start an argument and then walk off. What's been done to stop that? They just pull the same trick everyday and never have to pay.