I wondered what people's thoughts and views were on this type of bus? Personally I think theyre horrendous. Horrifically underpowered to the point where they cant even pull off from a stop without sounding like they're going to combust. Very noisy especially when required to do any speed. Arriva must love them as theyve standardised on them for yonks. No other major firm has bothered with them though have they?
Quote from: bob on October 19, 2013, 02:50:25 PM
I wondered what people's thoughts and views were on this type of bus? Personally I think theyre horrendous. Horrifically underpowered to the point where they cant even pull off from a stop without sounding like they're going to combust. Very noisy especially when required to do any speed. Arriva must love them as theyve standardised on them for yonks. No other major firm has bothered with them though have they?
Claribels seem to quite like them
Hardly a major operator though tony a couple of Birmingham bus routes
I like them and personally think they are the best new Single Decker bus on the market at the moment, certainly the only decent chassis available from Wrights. The reason Arriva like them is probably because Arriva is the VDL Dealer for the UK and I think they had something to do with the design of them too.
Why are they so badly underpowered and noisy though? As I say particularly when pulling off or going at a bit of speed. They really struggle with hills like Bradbury lane in Hednesford, they sound like they're going to blow up on a hill that a volvo would make short work of lol
Quote from: bob on October 19, 2013, 04:18:27 PM
Hardly a major operator though tony a couple of Birmingham bus routes
Claribels run the 55 & 94 into Birmingham :)
Yea 2 routes lol theyre with the big guys :-p
I quite like the modern ones, but not so fond of the older ones, as Bob said they seem underpowered and noisy (not a good noisy!)
Every single 52 plate sb200 in the fleet has been refurbished apart from cannocks, which maybe why they look and sound so poor. Maybe they'll be next up for refurb :) with that and a repaint and some new branding they might be a bit better
I love the commanders and pulsars are a good replacement. I would like to see more on the road would love to see a replacement for the daf cadet!
Arriva own daf bus uk dealership and obvious because of that get a very good deal when they buy them. There big benefits are they have great fuel consumption at 9.sommat mpg and a light weight chaisis so its operating costs are low whilst still being able to carry a large load.
they only have a 4.9 litre engine which is why maybe you think they are underpowered but I think they are quiet powerful, go for a ride down the ep in telford on the 44 in one yourll see they go!!! Comparing it to a citaro yes they are slow but citaros are epic.
now you take a daf and put it with one of these new Volvos eclipses or an enviro and the daf will win hands down.
and I think cannocks ones are good. the 02 plate ones could do with an internal refurb but not that desperate for it compared to some of the Volvo alx400's and y reg alx400 operated by nx.
Good sound buses that do a good job keep them coming!
Quote from: bob on October 19, 2013, 02:50:25 PM
I wondered what people's thoughts and views were on this type of bus? Personally I think theyre horrendous. Horrifically underpowered to the point where they cant even pull off from a stop without sounding like they're going to combust. Very noisy especially when required to do any speed. Arriva must love them as theyve standardised on them for yonks. No other major firm has bothered with them though have they?
I thought you covered this subject before, like, in every thread in the Arriva category?
Maybe you'd like to move it if its bothering you :)
I like Commanders and Pulsars alot. Pulsar 2's are much better than B7RLE Eclipse 2's
Quote from: dannygill on November 06, 2013, 11:58:53 PM
I love the commanders and pulsars are a good replacement. I would like to see more on the road would love to see a replacement for the daf cadet!
Arriva own daf bus uk dealership and obvious because of that get a very good deal when they buy them. There big benefits are they have great fuel consumption at 9.sommat mpg and a light weight chaisis so its operating costs are low whilst still being able to carry a large load.
they only have a 4.9 litre engine which is why maybe you think they are underpowered but I think they are quiet powerful, go for a ride down the ep in telford on the 44 in one yourll see they go!!! Comparing it to a citaro yes they are slow but citaros are epic.
now you take a daf and put it with one of these new Volvos eclipses or an enviro and the daf will win hands down.
and I think cannocks ones are good. the 02 plate ones could do with an internal refurb but not that desperate for it compared to some of the Volvo alx400's and y reg alx400 operated by nx.
Good sound buses that do a good job keep them coming!
If theyre as great as you say why dont any other big group like first/stagecoach/rotala/nx/wellglade/veolia bother with them???
Quote from: bob on November 07, 2013, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dannygill on November 06, 2013, 11:58:53 PM
I love the commanders and pulsars are a good replacement. I would like to see more on the road would love to see a replacement for the daf cadet!
Arriva own daf bus uk dealership and obvious because of that get a very good deal when they buy them. There big benefits are they have great fuel consumption at 9.sommat mpg and a light weight chaisis so its operating costs are low whilst still being able to carry a large load.
they only have a 4.9 litre engine which is why maybe you think they are underpowered but I think they are quiet powerful, go for a ride down the ep in telford on the 44 in one yourll see they go!!! Comparing it to a citaro yes they are slow but citaros are epic.
now you take a daf and put it with one of these new Volvos eclipses or an enviro and the daf will win hands down.
and I think cannocks ones are good. the 02 plate ones could do with an internal refurb but not that desperate for it compared to some of the Volvo alx400's and y reg alx400 operated by nx.
Good sound buses that do a good job keep them coming!
If theyre as great as you say why dont any other big group like first/stagecoach/rotala/nx/wellglade/veolia bother with them???
First buy second hand 15 year old Canteo Darts because they're always skint.
Stagecoach have some connection with ADL, hence they buy ADL.
NX have standardized on the B7RLE.
Wellglade seem to have a mix of everything.
Veola... can they be classed as a big group?
I give up.
Stop getting so stressed.....jeeez
Stop talking rubbish? VDL are a much better quality bus than some on the market, if you want crap just look at MAN!
Lets agree to disagree. You like them, I think theyre underpowered and not that good
I have driven a MAN powered coaches for the last 6 years without a moments problem with the engine. In fact as a company we have operated over 25 such coaches and the only issue as been with the ZF AS Tronic gear box so they are far from crap !!!
Quote from: andyr on November 07, 2013, 10:12:56 PM
I have driven a MAN powered coaches for the last 6 years without a moments problem with the engine. In fact as a company we have operated over 25 such coaches and the only issue as been with the ZF AS Tronic gear box so they are far from crap !!!
Not entirely sure where you got the impression I was talking about MAN Coaches from...
MAN engines for buses and coaches are built at the same factory !!! why would one be rubbish and the other not ?
Quote from: bob on November 07, 2013, 07:57:19 PM
Stop getting so stressed.....jeeez
I wasn't getting stressed, I was replying to you post regarding other large groups not ordering VDL, only one getting stressed is you, over Pulsars...
I don't really like Excels but I don't bring them up in every post I make!
Im not stressed at all. I dont bring pulsars into every post I make at all. This is a discussion forum right? I have a different opinion to yours on pulsars etc.... no need to be arsy.
Oh the irony.
Every one of your posts is an anti Arriva or VDL slur.
Anyway, we've gone off topic.
Not going to argue with you dude cos theres no point ive got my views youve got yours....
Quote from: andyr on November 07, 2013, 10:34:46 PM
MAN engines for buses and coaches are built at the same factory !!! why would one be rubbish and the other not ?
It is quite possible for it to happen. The engines may be perfect for long distance cruising with occasional hard accelerating, but bus engines are under a lot more stress with constant acceleration & deceleration.
Mercedes seem to have mastered the perfect bus engine. A lot of NXWMs Mercs have completed over 1 million miles on one engine, and Simon Dunn was praising the Mercedes engined Solos recently. Varios seemed to go on forever as well
Dont know what the talk abou veolia is, they done excist anymore!! They got in that much debt that even buying a tyre would be to much let alone a whole bus!!
Not sure which part of Veolia your on about but it was financed by HQ in Paris and there was tons of money to use. At one point we had £140,000 in Alan account for Scania parts. We never had problems being paid and also Birmingham depot which ran the Nat Ex contracts were making a profit.
I prefer the Stafford branded pulsars to the 61 plates or the 13 plate ones IMO, be nice if Cannock had some citaros but as some1 said arriva have some sort of deal with Wright if I'm correct?? I assume this is why 5000 (The Hired Telford Bus) is a VDL Pulsar from Arriva Coach and Bus? I could be wrong but I'm sure ill be corrected I personaly think the best daf sb200 ever made was the commander.........oooosssssshhhhhh
Lol its a deal with VDL rather than wright aint it? If the volvos go cannocks whole fleet will be lightweight vehicles :-(((
Mercedes seem to have mastered the perfect bus engine. A lot of NXWMs Mercs have completed over 1 million miles on one engine, and Simon Dunn was praising the Mercedes engined Solos recently. Varios seemed to go on forever as well as tony quoted
this may be the case but look at the facts here - iirc isnt the mercs fitted with a 12 litre straight six normally aspirated engine? if so compared to anything in the last 10 years, engines are bercoming smaller heavily turbocharged with added strain of emissions controls etc. travel on a merc it doesnt sound at all stressed. travel on a long dart/excel/b6 from same era they working their balls off. maintainance is also a key issue to longevity too. i seen b10ms with astronomical mileages without any major issues too.
Quote from: mranon on November 10, 2013, 10:21:35 AM
Mercedes seem to have mastered the perfect bus engine. A lot of NXWMs Mercs have completed over 1 million miles on one engine, and Simon Dunn was praising the Mercedes engined Solos recently. Varios seemed to go on forever as well as tony quoted
this may be the case but look at the facts here - iirc isnt the mercs fitted with a 12 litre straight six normally aspirated engine? if so compared to anything in the last 10 years, engines are bercoming smaller heavily turbocharged with added strain of emissions controls etc. travel on a merc it doesnt sound at all stressed. travel on a long dart/excel/b6 from same era they working their balls off. maintainance is also a key issue to longevity too. i seen b10ms with astronomical mileages without any major issues too.
Is that why darts etc are so noisy making them a bit unpleasant/unsuitable for longer distance services? And sb200s very loud when travelling at speed? I was on fgd2 ggu last night coming back for walsall ( the rough one with threadbare old arriva trim and at least two other types of seat moquette on different cushions towards tge back lol) and it sounded like it was about to blow up on the 50 stretch along the a34
Whats the newest daf commanders on the road, ive seen 57 plates any newer?
Don't think there are any newer Commanders than 57-plate, there are two 57-plates at Arriva Midlands and 7 at Arriva Yorkshire. There are quite a number of 07-plate Pulsars so I guess the Commander body was already being replaced, don't know if these were stock vehicles at all?
Quote from: dannygill on November 19, 2013, 03:40:38 PM
Whats the newest daf commanders on the road, ive seen 57 plates any newer?
I believe 3741 was the last one made
I think cannocks pair were dealer stock given their interiors same with the centros although one has arriva trim
Quote from: bob on November 19, 2013, 10:28:01 PM
I think cannocks pair were dealer stock given their interiors same with the centros although one has arriva trim
I believe they were all new to Leicester
I agree mercedes are masters of the engine the citaros power is incrediable I think and the buikd quality is brillient, but the new ler mercedes engine are kuch smaller now at 6740 cc so does size matter anymore? I personally think that the gearbox of aj engine alhas so much t do with it and the amou t of gears a vehicle has! For example diamonds new eclipses have the same engine and the bx09 centros the centros are really quick the eclipses slow, thats all down th gear boxes I think (personal option)
Quote from: dannygill on November 20, 2013, 06:42:51 AM
I agree mercedes are masters of the engine the citaros power is incrediable I think and the buikd quality is brillient, but the new ler mercedes engine are kuch smaller now at 6740 cc so does size matter anymore? I personally think that the gearbox of aj engine alhas so much t do with it and the amou t of gears a vehicle has! For example diamonds new eclipses have the same engine and the bx09 centros the centros are really quick the eclipses slow, thats all down th gear boxes I think (personal option)
Its all about torque delivery at what revs, so basing views on CC and horsepower alone results in invalid views.
Quote from: tphi12000 on November 19, 2013, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: bob on November 19, 2013, 10:28:01 PM
I think cannocks pair were dealer stock given their interiors same with the centros although one has arriva trim
I believe they were all new to Leicester
Yes they were both new to Leicester
Quote from: John on November 20, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: tphi12000 on November 19, 2013, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: bob on November 19, 2013, 10:28:01 PM
I think cannocks pair were dealer stock given their interiors same with the centros although one has arriva trim
I believe they were all new to Leicester
Yes they were both new to Leicester
yes along with the centros also dealer stock