Was looking through some TWM pictures an found several white buses, why was several buses painted white ? Was it a trial livery or something?
It was when TWM was going down the swanny and nx was going to sell it off, they started painting buses white ready for the take over. Sh!t happened since and the situation never arisen.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on August 25, 2013, 08:51:59 PM
It was when TWM was going down the swanny and nx was going to sell it off, they started painting buses white ready for the take over. Sh!t happened since and the situation never arisen.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
no fully correct, but goes to show how bad things must of been if they was painting buses all right ready for a take over!
Who was 'supposedly' taking over TWM ?
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 25, 2013, 08:59:11 PM
Who was 'supposedly' taking over TWM ?
I think it was Stagecoach wasn't it?
It was CVC/Cosmen who initially bidded for them.
At the time, the Cosmen family had an 18.7 per cent stake in NatEx and Jorge Cosmen, head of the group's Alsa business which operates in Spain and Morocco, is deputy chairman of NatEx. NatEx bought Alsa in 2005.
Speculation also mounted that Stagecoach have considered a bid.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8169957.stm states that "Stagecoach has said it is in exclusive talks with potential buyers of rival National Express, over a possible break-up of the firm. A group including Spain's Cosmen family and private equity firm CVC has made a takeover proposal for National Express. And Perth-based Stagecoach expressed interest in "certain assets and businesses" should the bid succeed. But Stagecoach will also consider "all other options" - which media reports say may include its own individual bid. On Monday, the Financial Times reported that National Express was set to reject the approach from the consortium of CVC and the Cosmen family."
299 was painted white and some of the Spectras were too
Quote from: Liverpool Street on August 25, 2013, 08:51:59 PM
It was when TWM was going down the swanny and nx was going to sell it off, they started painting buses white ready for the take over. Sh!t happened since and the situation never arisen.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
At the time, the word was that this was one of many desperate austerity measures that NX Group imposed on subsidiary companies to save cash. Basically it saved money both in paint and paint shop workers wages if only one colour was used and no connection bars were put on. Other measures included a virtual ban on anybody ordering stationary!
Stagecoach was only interest in West Midlands travel, and if they could get the whole of it they didn't want in initially. It is apparently something which Brian Souter has had on his shopping list for a while.
But realisicly I could see how the competitions lot could allow it, stagecoach would have a giant network with its overlap in Coventry (Coventry I would guess they would be forced to sell) and then as to the nx coach network stagecoach would then almost become the Uk's coach network
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 25, 2013, 09:20:04 PM
299 was painted white and some of the Spectras were too
and two or three spectras
Quote from: DJ trainbasher on August 25, 2013, 09:13:20 PM
It was CVC/Cosmen who initially bidded for them.
At the time, the Cosmen family had an 18.7 per cent stake in NatEx and Jorge Cosmen, head of the group's Alsa business which operates in Spain and Morocco, is deputy chairman of NatEx. NatEx bought Alsa in 2005.
Speculation also mounted that Stagecoach have considered a bid.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8169957.stm states that "Stagecoach has said it is in exclusive talks with potential buyers of rival National Express, over a possible break-up of the firm. A group including Spain's Cosmen family and private equity firm CVC has made a takeover proposal for National Express. And Perth-based Stagecoach expressed interest in "certain assets and businesses" should the bid succeed. But Stagecoach will also consider "all other options" - which media reports say may include its own individual bid. On Monday, the Financial Times reported that National Express was set to reject the approach from the consortium of CVC and the Cosmen family."
Whilst it was CVC Capital/The Comsen's that made the first actual public bid offer. It was actually First Group that initiated proceedings by making a merger approach to NX in June 2009
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/5682755/National-Express-shares-jump-on-FirstGroup-all-share-merger-approach.html
Whilst it was CVC Capital/The Comsen's that made the first actual public bid offer. It was actually First Group that initiated proceedings by making a merger approach to NX in June 2009
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/5682755/National-Express-shares-jump-on-FirstGroup-all-share-merger-approach.html
The CVC Capital/Cosmens bid was made in July 2009 and Stagecoach was in discussions with that consortium with a view to doing a side deal and buying NX's UK bus & coach assets
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/5919299/Stagecoach-eyes-National-Express-assets.html
Once CVC Capital/The Comsens withdrew their bid for NX in October 2009, Stagecoach them made a direct merger approach to NX themselves
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/6456895/National-Express-rejects-1.65bn-merger-bid-by-Stagecoach.html
It was during this time that the NXWM buses going through Walsall paintshop were painted allover white as if memory serves me correctly the Stagecoach proposal came almighty close to being a reality, as it was also during this time that the white buses only had West Midlands logo's, any reference to National Express wasn't applied until a later. I understand the main stumbling block was the percentage in the enlarge group being offered to National Express. I think it was something like 60/40 to Stagecoach where NX wanted 50/50. After the Stagecoach merger approach was rejected, repaints soon reverted to red/white NX colours with NX logo's.
Complete list is
Walsall Trident 4128
Acocks Green Gemini 4522
Wolverhampton Solo 299
Lea Hall O405N 1661
Pensnett O405N 1658
Wolverhampton Spectras 4005 (was painted white, but repainted into red before re-entering service)
4015
4018
4020
Plus 584 has been allover white, but that was because it was a reserve bus for a while, it was at Coventry, West Brom, Acocks Green and Birmingham Central before a red front was added and back to West Brom
See
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/sets/72157626984630832/ for all my pics of them
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
I wonder if that has anything to do with 1658 having a digital clock onboard?
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Thanks Winston;
If Stagecoach
DID take over NX would they have been in the stagecoach livery ? out of curiosity like when Arriva took over Midland ?
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Thanks Winston;
If Stagecoach DID take over NX would they have been in the stagecoach livery ? out of curiosity like when Arriva took over Midland ?
Possibly, the merger proposal I think was 60/40 in Stagecoach favour, so Stagecoach would have had the controlling say.
Had the merger proposal been a 50/50 split (i.e. merger of equals) the new combined group may have introduced a complete new livery & new fleetnames
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Thanks Winston;
If Stagecoach DID take over NX would they have been in the stagecoach livery ? out of curiosity like when Arriva took over Midland ?
Possibly, the merger proposal I think was 60/40 in Stagecoach favour, so Stagecoach would have had the controlling say.
Had the merger proposal been a 50/50 split (i.e. merger of equals) the new combined group may have introduced a complete new livery & new fleetnames
Would Stagecoach have taken over NX coaches aswell ? HOPEFULLY my last question ._.
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Thanks Winston;
If Stagecoach DID take over NX would they have been in the stagecoach livery ? out of curiosity like when Arriva took over Midland ?
Possibly, the merger proposal I think was 60/40 in Stagecoach favour, so Stagecoach would have had the controlling say.
Had the merger proposal been a 50/50 split (i.e. merger of equals) the new combined group may have introduced a complete new livery & new fleetnames.
There is always a possibility in the future that NX could merge with one of the other big groups as there is limited scope to grow UK bus, but at the moment NX seem to favour expanding in Germany, Spain & USA and don't really seem interested in making any acquisitions of any great size. They are favouring contract wins and setting up new businesses from scratch
Quote from: nitromatt1 on August 26, 2013, 09:40:23 AM
I wonder if that has anything to do with 1658 having a digital clock onboard?
The digital clock is part of the next stop announcements which was used when it was on the 404 along with the speakers on the ceiling on the bus other buses that had this were 1524-9 1531-5 1537-1539 and 1658
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan4775 on August 26, 2013, 09:36:31 AM
So why did Stagecoach not take over NX in the end ?
Because the NX board of directors didn't want them too..... they rejected the Stagecoach approach!
Instead they choose to go it alone with & pay down debt via a rights issue, they got Dean Finch (ex First Group) on board and has turnaround NX Group fortunes, such that it is in a much stronger position now
Thanks Winston;
If Stagecoach DID take over NX would they have been in the stagecoach livery ? out of curiosity like when Arriva took over Midland ?
Possibly, the merger proposal I think was 60/40 in Stagecoach favour, so Stagecoach would have had the controlling say.
Had the merger proposal been a 50/50 split (i.e. merger of equals) the new combined group may have introduced a complete new livery & new fleetnames
Would Stagecoach have taken over NX coaches aswell ? HOPEFULLY my last question ._.
The 1st Stagecoach agreement with CVC/The Cosmens had their bid been accepted would have seen Stagecoach get its hands on all of UK bus (NXWM, NXC, NXD) & UK Coaches, I think Stagecoach was also interested in the remaining UK rail franchises.
The merger approach from Stagecoach direct to NX would have seen everything NX own merging with everything Stagecoach own, as the merger split was majority to Stagecoach shareholders effectively in would have been a takeover of NX by Stagecoach
Don't forget the yellow cash trays which were fitted to the cab doors on some 44/46 BC tridents.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on August 26, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
Don't forget the yellow cash trays which were fitted to the cab doors on some 44/46 BC tridents.
That's a new one on me, was that during the potentially Stagecoach takeover period?
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on August 26, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
Don't forget the yellow cash trays which were fitted to the cab doors on some 44/46 BC tridents.
That's a new one on me, was that during the potentially Stagecoach takeover period?
It was only 4432 that had that fitted - and still does now.
A driver told me that quite a few NXWM drivers are leaving to go to Stagecoach rugby, aparantly they are fed up with NXs hostile behaviour towards its employees and their shifts are getting longer and longer.
Also there is a rumour that Stagecoach is looking at land in Longbridge for a new depot....
Quote from: Bham Central Driver on August 26, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Quote from: Winston on August 26, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on August 26, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
Don't forget the yellow cash trays which were fitted to the cab doors on some 44/46 BC tridents.
That's a new one on me, was that during the potentially Stagecoach takeover period?
It was only 4432 that had that fitted - and still does now.
Nah. There was more. Most had them removed and a metal plate covered the gap.
Quote from: YW4355 on August 26, 2013, 12:49:10 PM
A driver told me that quite a few NXWM drivers are leaving to go to Stagecoach rugby, aparantly they are fed up with NXs hostile behaviour towards its employees and their shifts are getting longer and longer.
Also there is a rumour that Stagecoach is looking at land in Longbridge for a new depot....
Danny Gill has said elsewhere that Mike DeCourcey are struggling with driver shortages on their NX coach diagrams and that NX coach drivers are defecting to Megabus work @ Rugby, I can't image it would be worth their while for Birmingham based NXWM bus drivers to work from Rugby.
Stagecoach only have eyes for the NXWM operation, I'd be surprised if they were to set up in the West Midlands now, they have more than ample opportunities in the past like when Go-Ahead Group sold Go West Midlands to Rotala. Stagecoach don't normally setup from scratch, they tend to buy an established independent then build on that
Quote from: YW4355 on August 26, 2013, 12:49:10 PM
A driver told me that quite a few NXWM drivers are leaving to go to Stagecoach rugby, aparantly they are fed up with NXs hostile behaviour towards its employees and their shifts are getting longer and longer.
Also there is a rumour that Stagecoach is looking at land in Longbridge for a new depot....
Another example of NXs behavior towards its employees...
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/bus-drivers-hit-streets-brum-2039311
Quote from: YW4355 on August 26, 2013, 01:01:04 PM
Quote from: YW4355 on August 26, 2013, 12:49:10 PM
A driver told me that quite a few NXWM drivers are leaving to go to Stagecoach rugby, aparantly they are fed up with NXs hostile behaviour towards its employees and their shifts are getting longer and longer.
Also there is a rumour that Stagecoach is looking at land in Longbridge for a new depot....
Another example of NXs behavior towards its employees...
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/bus-drivers-hit-streets-brum-2039311
That's not confined to NX, First Group have the same issues frequently raised in the US
Surely shifts can't get longer and longer because of legal driving hours?
Around the time of the takeover bid or maybe just after, I overheard some stagecoach employees at a bus rally who were talking to each other about the fact that there had been lots of stagecoach management travelling the network and watching the business. Especially from Birmingham City Centre.
Yes please. Brum needs more competition.
Quote from: Gareth on August 27, 2013, 04:15:28 PM
Surely shifts can't get longer and longer because of legal driving hours?
Around the time of the takeover bid or maybe just after, I overheard some stagecoach employees at a bus rally who were talking to each other about the fact that there had been lots of stagecoach management travelling the network and watching the business. Especially from Birmingham City Centre.
I understand Stagecoach did come extremely close to getting their hands on NXWM during that period