Poll
Question:
Double doors
Option 1: On all buses
Option 2: On all decker routes and busy singles
Option 3: On Decker routes only
Option 4: On speacial Decker routes
Option 5: None
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
The ramp in the middle door would be better for disabled access it would also be more sturdy as the ramps on the front step bow over time and with modern buses cause doors to function incorrectly and interlocks stay on when the doors are shut. The platform is a weaker point than further up the bus.
Quote from: richie on July 14, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
The ramp in the middle door would be better for disabled access it would also be more sturdy as the ramps on the front step bow over time and with modern buses cause doors to function incorrectly and interlocks stay on when the doors are shut. The platform is a weaker point than further up the bus.
Ok I didn't know that
IS there an option for not on any buses!!?
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
No-one in their right mind!
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
No-one in their right mind!
I agree as my previous post suggested. Improved passenger movement offset by less capacity for passengers, more expensive and weaker buses which are more complex. Also, causes confusion at stops as the driver has to park somewhere where people can not only get on at the front but also get off too!! Theres the problem of far dodging and people entering through the other set of doors and the safety issue of can the driver properly see when people have/are unloaded. People have been killed on dual door buses, think the NOV...G fleetlines and the time lag devices are complex and dont work. In short, not the sort of feature I think would be useful. To solve the problem, we need to make sure buses arent too crowded and people move down the buses so as people can get on and off.
Quote from: Peter123 on July 14, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
No-one in their right mind!
I agree as my previous post suggested. Improved passenger movement offset by less capacity for passengers, more expensive and weaker buses which are more complex. Also, causes confusion at stops as the driver has to park somewhere where people can not only get on at the front but also get off too!! Theres the problem of far dodging and people entering through the other set of doors and the safety issue of can the driver properly see when people have/are unloaded. People have been killed on dual door buses, think the NOV...G fleetlines and the time lag devices are complex and dont work. In short, not the sort of feature I think would be useful. To solve the problem, we need to make sure buses arent too crowded and people move down the buses so as people can get on and off.
Correct. The big advantage of double door buses when they were originally introduced was that while people were leaving the vehicle the driver could sell the first few fares to boarding passengers. In places like London when drivers were selling tickets ang giving change this was quite a useful way of saving some time. You still couldn't unload and load a full bus at the same time because there was still a point just in front of the middle doors where people had to wait for people getting off before they could get to seats.
Even in London I think the time saving is minimal now because Oyster has speeded up boarding times so much. The Borismaster does go some way to solving this with people able to leave via rear stairs and rear doors so in theory you could load a full bus at the same time as it is emptying although the fact you are allowed to leave by any of the three doors partly negates this
They would be completely useless at bus stations, as our stations are only designed for single door vehicles.
Personally I have never been a fan of the second door, with the risk of passengers sneaking on without paying. I also like to thank the driver, so wouldn't usually alight through the second door
main reason not a good idea is fraud/fare evasion. its hard enough getting some people to produce a valid ticket etc. i bet bus companied loose lots of revenue this way. centre doors would encourage it more
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 14, 2013, 06:12:00 PM
They would be completely useless at bus stations, as our stations are only designed for single door vehicles.
Personally I have never been a fan of the second door, with the risk of passengers sneaking on without paying. I also like to thank the driver, so wouldn't usually alight through the second door
Completely agree Matt it would require a complete change in all our infrastructure which is something centro have done well on and spent a lot of money on and generally people do like to be able to say thanks to the driver on getting off so I dont think double doors are a good idea.
I remember double doors being the norm as a kid in the 70s as I lived on the Pershore Road routes and close to the Bristol Road routes (NOV---G and SOE---H Fleetlines). They worked ok on these routes because that's what people were used to but they didn't offer any benefits in terms of quicker loading and unloading times. When they were used on other routes, the middle door was often not in use. Can't see why 2 doors should ever make a comeback in the West Mids.
Anyway, showing my age there...
Weren't middle doors used in the mid 70s in Birmingham, but banned after an accident?
Yes, some of the Fleetlines at Hockley were centre exits They used to send them down to Miller Street to cover shortages in the fleet due to
breakdowns, etc. With the extra controls and extra checks needed, we found them a pain in the backside. Don't think they would work now.
We had over a hundred at one stage. The NOV8XXG fleet that were solid on the Pershore Road (the old 45 to Cotteridge) that used to load on John Bright Street. These were based at Cotteridge garage at one stage - here's a great photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8050359@N07/5167906188/in/set-72157600409513878
The SOE9XXH hundred split between Selly Oak for Bristol Road 61-63 services and Wolverhampton along with the low TOC4XXH Fleetlines.
The dual door fell out of favour because of loss of seating capacity, expense, and in the case of the Jumbos, the stretch bodywork (to make up the capacity) gave problems I believe.
Oh, and where's the vote option 'None,' because that's how I'd vote as well.
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
Quote from: D10 on July 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Most of them had the middle door removed, although the odd one kept it for some reason.
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
Green Bus have 6 dual door Volvo Olympians (4 single door Olympians) and 9 dual door Tridents
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 14, 2013, 10:00:18 PM
Green Bus have 6 dual door Volvo Olympians (4 single door Olympians) and 9 dual door Tridents
Are the middle doors ever used Matt
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: D10 on July 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Most of them had the middle door removed, although the odd one kept it for some reason.
D13s were double-door, it was a fairly common regional version of the Alexander body at the time, plenty of SMT and other fleets' buses had them. WMPTE singled the majority - I recall it was garage specific, but I'd have to check which ones kept them.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
Very true!!
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
It's all part of the more strict accessibility regulations in London. Guide Dogs find dot-matrix displays difficult to read, so they have reverted to plain roller-blinds.
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
I can see the advantages - an extra door for passengers. But as stated before, the whole infrastructure of bus stations would have to change, & there would be a fleet of both single door and double door buses, no point trying to change the standard now
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 14, 2013, 10:00:18 PM
Green Bus have 6 dual door Volvo Olympians (4 single door Olympians) and 9 dual door Tridents
VIP have a dual door dart
Quote from: The Real 4778 on July 14, 2013, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: D10 on July 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Most of them had the middle door removed, although the odd one kept it for some reason.
D13s were double-door, it was a fairly common regional version of the Alexander body at the time, plenty of SMT and other fleets' buses had them. WMPTE singled the majority - I recall it was garage specific, but I'd have to check which ones kept them.
They were indeed - and you would have been hard pushed to find any driver using the 'centre' door on a D13 when they were so equipped - it was actually just behind the front wheel arch so was less use than, say on an SOE Fleetline.
The other problem with the NOV and SOE/TOB/TOC vehicles was that the notional reduction in boarding/dwell times by having a centre door was completely cancelled out by the delays caused by the speed of operation of interlocks to prevent the vehicle driving off with the centre door open (driving off with the centre door open was the apparent cause of initial accidents). Thus along with all the other downsides mentioned, there was little point in specifying two doors in the West Midlands (and it appears more or less everywhere except London and Lothian - who stuck with double doors).
As for TfLs white and black roller blinds - well I've just seen a brand new E400 from my office window with black and white blinds - I couldn't read them properly but can read all the dayglo yellow ones - they're meant to be visible to the partially sighted so it shouldn't be too long before TfL get pulled up over this apparently daft decision which seems to be coincide with the introduction of the New Bus for London - presumably the 'artists' involved in that design required the white on black blinds, along with the narrow upper deck windows etc etc to reflect the Routemaster design? Remember London introduced rooves on buses, driver's windscreens, driver's doors etc etc long after the rest of the country had adopted them as standard and essential - although sometimes quite trail blazing in their specs, London have also dragged their feet and sometimes been apparently illogical in some of their choices over the years!
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?
Quote from: nx4737 on July 15, 2013, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?
Although it's perhaps not the most important thing, LEDs often disappear on photographs for some reason, whilst dot matrix/paper blinds always show
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 15, 2013, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: nx4737 on July 15, 2013, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: X94 on July 14, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??
TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.
But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!
I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?
Although it's perhaps not the most important thing, LEDs often disappear on photographs for some reason, whilst dot matrix/paper blinds always show
Yeah I've noticed this as well dont know why it is...
LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera
Quote from: Sh4166 on July 15, 2013, 05:04:40 PM
LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera
The LEDs seem to disappear in every other photo I take though so I'd guess it blinks more than every 30 seconds
Quote from: Sh4166 on July 15, 2013, 05:04:40 PM
LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera
Thirty times
per second I think it is.
So what percentage of the time is the LED on, and what percentage of time is it off?
I'm guessing it's probably half of the time, but the human eye can't detect it.
Possibly after the effects of some pretty nasty substances you would, or under hypnosis.
One thing I have noticed is that it seems to be more likely to disappear, the greater the angle the bus is at to me
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:04:57 AM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:04:57 AM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?
Quote from: Peter123 on July 15, 2013, 06:02:19 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:04:57 AM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?
Yes, to make the dual doors worthwhile you have to get as many people past the driver as possible while the bus is still unloading. The trouble with the early layout was on standard ALX bodies this reduced lower deck seating to as low as 19 on some buses, a major disadvantage on routes with lots of elderly or infirm
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on July 15, 2013, 06:02:19 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:04:57 AM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 14, 2013, 10:14:20 PM
A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...
Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"
That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off
Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?
Yes, to make the dual doors worthwhile you have to get as many people past the driver as possible while the bus is still unloading. The trouble with the early layout was on standard ALX bodies this reduced lower deck seating to as low as 19 on some buses, a major disadvantage on routes with lots of elderly or infirm
Exactly, defeats the whole point of accessibility if no seats and everyone has to go upstairs. I got one of the presidents at worcester this morning on the 144 and was amazed by the capacity or lack of it downstairs 22 seats in total-3 of which were where doors were originally, so 19 in total. Many at the back, raised so awful for the elderly-thats where the enviro400 comes into its own-seats at the front, yes raised but not much, for those who cannot walk all down the bus. Even so the B+H spec of buggies one side/seats the other was good but no wonder NX dont buy geminis-they are not as passenger friendly. To be honest, short wheelbase deckers are a waste of everyones time full stop-the capacity on the president this morning was almost funny-enviro 300s/b7rles are far more efficient crowd movers. If you're going to have a decker that is passenger friendly it must have 1 set of doors, not be short length and must have seats near the front otherwise a single decker is better
Lets be honest, it's going to be just like the "Birmingham needs / doesn't need nightbuses". People have different opinions with different evidence to base their opinions on, other people try to say "no it's a stupid idea shut up". I'll just accept in some peoples' eyes I'm wrong, it's probably easier
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:28:21 PM
Lets be honest, it's going to be just like the "Birmingham needs / doesn't need nightbuses". People have different opinions with different evidence to base their opinions on, other people try to say "no it's a stupid idea shut up". I'll just accept in some peoples' eyes I'm wrong, it's probably easier
No its interesting having the discussion-thats what the forum is for-discussing ideas
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 07:28:21 PM
Lets be honest, it's going to be just like the "Birmingham needs / doesn't need nightbuses". People have different opinions with different evidence to base their opinions on, other people try to say "no it's a stupid idea shut up". I'll just accept in some peoples' eyes I'm wrong, it's probably easier
I didn't say that, it was just your answers didn't relate to the points in my text you quoted
Wasn't most of Birmingham Coach Companies fleet double door leyland nationals in the mid 90's?
Quote from: sonic84 on July 15, 2013, 08:53:03 PM
Wasn't most of Birmingham Coach Companies fleet double door leyland nationals in the mid 90's?
I think about a quarter was dual door, mostly ex Brighton & Hove, Chase also had several ex London Dual Door nationals
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 08:54:57 PM
Quote from: sonic84 on July 15, 2013, 08:53:03 PM
Wasn't most of Birmingham Coach Companies fleet double door leyland nationals in the mid 90's?
I think about a quarter was dual door, mostly ex Brighton & Hove, Chase also had several ex London Dual Door nationals
I remember the nationals at chase when they operated the 560. How many were dual door as most of the ones i remember were Single door
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
The British Broadcasting Company?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
The BBC?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
Sorry that should have read BCC ;)
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 15, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
The British Broadcasting Company?
He means the BCC surely.
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 15, 2013, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 15, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
I do remember Birmingham Coach Company having several single-deck buses on the 120 with doors at the middle, but they were never used.
As has previously been stated, double doors might work effectively in London, where the infrastructure is in place, but its simply wouldn't work here in the Midlands, with the exception of course being the bendi-buses on the 67.
The BBC had numerous centre door buses, they used to use them on the 247/8.
The British Broadcasting Company?
He means the BCC surely.
I know, I was just messing about ;)
Oh i had a feeling you were talking about the Birmingham Coach Company
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
Perhaps my post previous to this wasn't worded brilliantly and was more or less responding to my own post so I can see why you didn't see my point, so I'll try again... My opinion is that (from experience of them) London buses don't have as much of a problem of having to get rid of so many people from a single bus, because there aren't as many people on the bus, which in turn is because there are a lot more buses, whereas here the buses aren't as frequent as they need to be.
In response to your post I did understand your point, but to me it's not a valid arguement, because even with having to wait for people to come down the stairs first, there's still a fair number of people that can get on the bus first, and those that are getting off can get off quicker because there's less of a crowd in the way at the only door, every little bit of time saved helps, especially when repeated a number of times along the route.
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
Perhaps my post previous to this wasn't worded brilliantly and was more or less responding to my own post so I can see why you didn't see my point, so I'll try again... My opinion is that (from experience of them) London buses don't have as much of a problem of having to get rid of so many people from a single bus, because there aren't as many people on the bus, which in turn is because there are a lot more buses, whereas here the buses aren't as frequent as they need to be.
In response to your post I did understand your point, but to me it's not a valid arguement, because even with having to wait for people to come down the stairs first, there's still a fair number of people that can get on the bus first, and those that are getting off can get off quicker because there's less of a crowd in the way at the only door, every little bit of time saved helps, especially when repeated a number of times along the route.
I'll certainly give you the point people can alight faster, that is nothing to do with bus design, but the ignorance of many people waiting to board trying to get on or just stand in the way of people alighting, If people queued properly and stood back until everyone was off it wouldn't matter where the door was
I think in a way London Buses have to have two doors (3 in some cases), Londoners seem to be a whole different breed of commuter.
They expect buses to come along when they want it (and moan if they just miss one even if the next one is in view), and believe me, if London Buses only had one door, there would be a running battle for people trying to get on against people trying to get off. Londoners only have time for one person and that is themselves.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
I think in a way London Buses have to have two doors (3 in some cases), Londoners seem to be a whole different breed of commuter.
They expect buses to come along when they want it (and moan if they just miss one even if the next one is in view), and believe me, if London Buses only had one door, there would be a running battle for people trying to get on against people trying to get off. Londoners only have time for one person and that is themselves.
You say that, but at least there is some order on escalators to the tube in London. Stand still on the right, walk on the left. I wish that rule applied up here and elsewhere in this country
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 09:11:24 PM
Quote from: Kevin on July 15, 2013, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.
London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses
Perhaps my post previous to this wasn't worded brilliantly and was more or less responding to my own post so I can see why you didn't see my point, so I'll try again... My opinion is that (from experience of them) London buses don't have as much of a problem of having to get rid of so many people from a single bus, because there aren't as many people on the bus, which in turn is because there are a lot more buses, whereas here the buses aren't as frequent as they need to be.
In response to your post I did understand your point, but to me it's not a valid arguement, because even with having to wait for people to come down the stairs first, there's still a fair number of people that can get on the bus first, and those that are getting off can get off quicker because there's less of a crowd in the way at the only door, every little bit of time saved helps, especially when repeated a number of times along the route.
I'll certainly give you the point people can alight faster, that is nothing to do with bus design, but the ignorance of many people waiting to board trying to get on or just stand in the way of people alighting, If people queued properly and stood back until everyone was off it wouldn't matter where the door was
Therefore it would make things quicker...? I wasn't just going on the single stage of people transferring between bus and pavement (christ if I had my way some of them would be head first from the upstairs window), but the whole process including the massed hoardes waiting to scramble past the driver so he gets as short a glimpse of their out of date daysaver as possible, and the useless idiots who forget where they wanted to get off and have to barge their way through the people blocking the entrance because everyone else has already got off.
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2013, 09:21:26 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 15, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
I think in a way London Buses have to have two doors (3 in some cases), Londoners seem to be a whole different breed of commuter.
They expect buses to come along when they want it (and moan if they just miss one even if the next one is in view), and believe me, if London Buses only had one door, there would be a running battle for people trying to get on against people trying to get off. Londoners only have time for one person and that is themselves.
You say that, but at least there is some order on escalators to the tube in London. Stand still on the right, walk on the left. I wish that rule applied up here and elsewhere in this country
I wish a lot of things in London applied everywhere else, constantly in awe of the place, whenever I need to go there I'll deliberately take extra time than I need just so I can watch it all
Quote from: D10 on July 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe
Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?
Quote from: 4006 on July 16, 2013, 02:20:05 AM
Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?
As I said, pretty sure that coversation has been had before on here and the response was "actually it's not that much of a problem"
Quote from: nitromatt1 on July 15, 2013, 05:14:58 PM
So what percentage of the time is the LED on, and what percentage of time is it off?
I have spoken to my expert on these matters, she advises the blink rate of public transport LEDs used in PIS displays is three times per second, meaning 180 flickers per minute obviously.
I suspect that this means the LED is lit say 75% of the time, lighting up or dimming about 15% of the time, and blank for about 10%.
Quote from: 4006 on July 16, 2013, 02:20:05 AM
Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe
That bus looks beautiful - EXCEPT for those awful BMAC rear light clusters >:(
Who remembers the short Walsall dual door Fleetlines? Apart from the early ones (most of which WMPTE converted to dual door), they had a narrow front door and a full width sliding door two bays back. When used with driver and conductor, only the sliding door was used. When one person operated the front door was used as the entrance and the sliding door as the exit.
My recollections, from the mid-1970s, was that the air-operated sliding door took ages to open and close. Many of them only had Gardner 6LW engines, so get a good load and progress could be slow, even when not opo. They helped make Walsall interesting for the enthusiast (along with many other vehicles) but PTE standard Fleetlines and VRTs must have made life easier.
Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?
I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.
Quote from: 4006 on July 16, 2013, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: D10 on July 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Wasn't the last batch of Midland Red D13 Fleetlines dual door too?
Certainly I seem to have heard it mentioned that the ones that passed to WMPTE had their centre doors removed.
Yes I believe so also The D13 were converted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61352841@N04/5609864699/in/photolist-9xJ2ka-aGXWYe
Its bad enough with 1 door, 2 doors...More people 'sneaking' on (Frauds) more chance for people to let themselves on & off, less control for the driver & extra work for the driver but how do the bendi's do in relation to all the posts on this topic?
Yes Stourbridge garage had 6292/3 and they were single door, however they had another one (may have been 6267 or something like that) and it still had its middle door!
Quote from: Stevo on July 16, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?
I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.
Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF
Quote from: BU07 LGO on July 17, 2013, 12:03:04 AM
Quote from: Stevo on July 16, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?
I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.
Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF
Looks higher spec then NXWM ones!! Nice!
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 17, 2013, 06:43:15 PM
Quote from: BU07 LGO on July 17, 2013, 12:03:04 AM
Quote from: Stevo on July 16, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
Don't forget that for years London buses, from the Merlins up till the later Metrobuses and Titans, had turnstiles at the entrance, so a separate exit was essential. For some reason TfL thinks they are still needed. I travel quite a bit in SW London and the traffic conditions are no worse than in the West Midlands, but you have centre-exit Darts and Enviro 200s with far too few seats and lots of standing. The Travel London Excels, later 401, etc., had centre exits and only about 28 seats - barmy. But anyone remember centre-exit minibuses in Oxford?
I believe only one major fleet outside London sticks with blinds instead of digital displays - Lothian buses, one of the best fleets in the UK. The display is far clearer whatever the light as long as the blinds are clean.
Lothian have started using LED now on their new enviro hybrids:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6979487318/in/photolist-bCKGqf-bCKyfW-anQiwu-dfQCca-dfQPVf-bBnt2p-akzeHA-eceLXX-bXaejg-bXacZM-cewx2w-ayCfkW-ayCftJ-ayzz2n-axBdz7-apKL2E-eUmoRJ-bywXEV-eUm4My-eUnoUy-bjUffH-akEkZy-akBvjZ-akBuzk-akEkYf-akBuEF-akBwBp-akEj2U-akBvVK-akEi67-akBvmp-akBtPM-akEiqo-akBtQT-akEj1w-akEixj-akEiSG-akBucg-akEjF5-akBuDp-akEkjC-akBuG8-akEiUd-akBviB-akBu8i-akBvYt-akBvX2-anQtDf-atcJTT-atfnY5-atcLJF
Looks higher spec then NXWM ones!! Nice!
Then you see their Airlink Gemini's....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27204054@N07/4907207273/in/photolist-8tCHKX-8tEGuJ-8tEGuq-8tEGum-8jFDNS-8jCrix-8jCm9F-8jFyBS-8tCHL6-8pPFDG-aeFuaU-8qykR9-9hFy8H-dXtK7c-9wViqt-9yqBi9-9ynz3k-9yqfQb-9ynBSe-9ynASV-9ynAaa-9yqCEq-9yqyp7-9ynymR-9yqAhq-9yqzwq-9ynCbM-9ynCuK-9zhU8V-9yqXRs-9ynzp2-9yqh5m-beXypz-aDwF6c-eTvLfL-eTvN9m-9xGUgw-7MGknS-bXiLtQ-9EB8kH-eTcs1E-eTceow-eTcJH5-7MGkWS-7Q91P9-coptTq-dWpWtK-9ktP8n-bXiKof-8x4ZFL-beXysB
compared to:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55318994@N07/5655722510/in/photolist-9BM4g5-csEhv7-9BM4gf
Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.
Sounds like you've had a bad day Rat. Bristol Road getting you down again? I'm sure it wasn't like that back in the day of the SOE---H jumbo Fleetlines* although you did have to watch out on the 63 for odd characters who were on day release from the old Rubery Hill mental hospitals.
* Keeping it on topic with reference to dual door Fleetlines.
Quote from: Mike K on July 18, 2013, 10:37:21 PM
Sounds like you've had a bad day Rat. Bristol Road getting you down again? I'm sure it wasn't like that back in the day of the SOE---H jumbo Fleetlines* although you did have to watch out on the 63 for odd characters who were on day release from the old Rubery Hill mental hospitals.
* Keeping it on topic with reference to dual door Fleetlines.
Nope, just reflecting on upcoming retirement, how crap this actually is.. And the Company just sits there and takes it. Paralyzed.
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
No-one in their right mind!
I would! :) Judge me if you will, but the only dual door bus in our city is the 67, and it isn't that busy! More services such as the fast flowing 37, or Sutton Coldfield Buses should be porvided with double deckers with dual doors. I'd love to see a variety of buses. Also, I would like another "London Feature" which is the iBus. Personally, I like London's iBus, and the one's on the 22/23 routes, i think they should make more, on buses with the monitors.
Quote from: clayderman on July 18, 2013, 11:53:01 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 14, 2013, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 14, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door
No-one in their right mind!
I would! :) Judge me if you will, but the only dual door bus in our city is the 67, and it isn't that busy! More services such as the fast flowing 37, or Sutton Coldfield Buses should be porvided with double deckers with dual doors. I'd love to see a variety of buses. Also, I would like another "London Feature" which is the iBus. Personally, I like London's iBus, and the one's on the 22/23 routes, i think they should make more, on buses with the monitors.
I think they would be useful, for passenger flow, but I don't think they are required, and given that, like you said, only 1 route in the City Centre is dual bus, in my opinion, it would be easier and more beneficial to stick to the one door layout with new buses that NXWM receives
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 18, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.
It's like the fat bloke rubbing his belly smiling saying 'it's all paid for'
These low life idle benefit sucking scumbags say 'it's all paid for.... by somebody else'
Quote from: 4006 on July 19, 2013, 02:53:49 AM
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 18, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.
It's like the fat bloke rubbing his belly smiling saying 'it's all paid for'
These low life idle benefit sucking scumbags say 'it's all paid for.... by somebody else'
Finally, someone on my wavelength!
And regarding dual doors, it won't work. NX is about reducing accidents, , and sticking extra doors on it will just increase risk. It works in London as its London.
Double or treble doors work very well all over Europe. I recently travelled on a couple of treble door MAN City Lion's in Dubrovnik. I believe single door double deckers are required in Britain because of the lack of Rapid Transit systems. Buses are used here, particularly in big cities like Birmingham on routes which take on hour or more at peak times to get to their final destinations. In these cases the maximum number of seats possible are required. It is much more acceptable to stand on a railed vehicle, which are much faster. I regret Birmingham scrapped the trams instead of modernising them.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on July 19, 2013, 08:14:24 PM
Double or treble doors work very well all over Europe.
and just about everywhere else in the world.
I do think it could be an idea on the very busy routes such as maybe the 33/51 but not really that useful nor nessasary. But on the 50 I actually think the borrismaster would be idea as I think its the only route you would maybe want to hop on and off on maybe going through kings heath etc....
Or not.
Double doors will not work. And don't even think about the BorrisMaster!
Loading times won't even be changed.
the Boris Master is 2 doors only, TfL removed the funding for the conductors
Quote from: dgss1 on July 20, 2013, 10:16:56 AM
the Boris Master is 2 doors only, TfL removed the funding for the conductors
Not sure were you got that from!
The prototypes on the 38 are now running as normal buses in two door mode on normal workings, not extras like they were but the production ones LT8-40 on the 24 route are all in full 3 door with conductor mode
Quote from: Tony on July 20, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: dgss1 on July 20, 2013, 10:16:56 AM
the Boris Master is 2 doors only, TfL removed the funding for the conductors
Not sure were you got that from!
The prototypes on the 38 are now running as normal buses in two door mode on normal workings, not extras like they were but the production ones LT8-40 on the 24 route are all in full 3 door with conductor mode
....and when I saw them "in the flesh" last week, they were hideous
I know Kevin, but the back's the worst by far
I thought they look quirky but ok - the back looks v strange - cant understand that white on black blind arrangement - compared with other buses in Whitehall yesterday the 24s blinds showing Hampstead Heath were virtually illegible from a distance. Perhaps the money saved on the cheaper blinds covers the cost of conductors??!!! :P
I saw one approaching at a distance from Victoria St and could only see the top half through the traffic. i initially thought it was a preserved sightseeing bus - looked just like a mid 60s narrow windowed NCME bodied Fleetline or Atlantean!!
Judge for yourself. ::) (I have a hobby... :-[)
Quote from: clayderman on August 05, 2013, 10:22:18 PM
Judge for yourself. ::) (I have a hobby... :-[)
I'm impressed, very good. I think this is the closest we'll get to a dual door Enviro400 at NXWM.
Only thing that could be improved is the size and positioning of the logo. Was it just a random fleetnumber?
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on August 05, 2013, 10:29:41 PM
Quote from: clayderman on August 05, 2013, 10:22:18 PM
Judge for yourself. ::) (I have a hobby... :-[)
I'm impressed, very good. I think this is the closest we'll get to a dual door Enviro400 at NXWM.
Only thing that could be improved is the size and positioning of the logo. Was it just a random fleetnumber?
Good Guess... I mean, they don't have THAT fleet number do they. lol ;) BTW, the logo on the most visible side was probably a flaw, due to the door in the way. Nevertheless, a excellent take if i say so myself 8)
Quote from: The Rat on July 19, 2013, 08:56:02 AM
Quote from: 4006 on July 19, 2013, 02:53:49 AM
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 18, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.
It's like the fat bloke rubbing his belly smiling saying 'it's all paid for'
These low life idle benefit sucking scumbags say 'it's all paid for.... by somebody else'
Finally, someone on my wavelength!
And regarding dual doors, it won't work. NX is about reducing accidents, , and sticking extra doors on it will just increase risk. It works in London as its London.
You do realise not everyone in Birmingham that's not well off is like that. I come from a working class family with not much money and I'm not hanging about in the streets smoking weed and terrorising people. I've gone to uni and I work. Most of my friends from school have gone on to go to university. And I grew up in Stechford, Chelmsley Wood and Tile Cross. You shouldn't stereotype a group of people and brand everyone in Birmingham "scummy" and "low-lifes" as that's not the case at all. I happen to be very proud that I'm a brummie.
Second what jb93 is saying totally
Quote from: JB93 on August 07, 2013, 07:52:19 PM
Quote from: The Rat on July 19, 2013, 08:56:02 AM
Quote from: 4006 on July 19, 2013, 02:53:49 AM
Quote from: The Retiring Rat on July 18, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Oh my!! Those buses! I wish Birmingham people were high quality. But no
All you get is rubber lips sucking chicken bones clean and chucked on the floor. Gob on the floor. Burn up a rizzla. And damn tracksuits. Seriously, these people give nothing to society, so just end there pathetic lives as they don't deserve life. They pass the time by insulting others, more higher in stature within the community. This country is sickening. When I was a nipper we used to teach these wasters a lesson, but automatically the police is on the Tracksuits side. Makes me sick to the back teeth.
It's like the fat bloke rubbing his belly smiling saying 'it's all paid for'
These low life idle benefit sucking scumbags say 'it's all paid for.... by somebody else'
Finally, someone on my wavelength!
And regarding dual doors, it won't work. NX is about reducing accidents, , and sticking extra doors on it will just increase risk. It works in London as its London.
You do realise not everyone in Birmingham that's not well off is like that. I come from a working class family with not much money and I'm not hanging about in the streets smoking weed and terrorising people. I've gone to uni and I work. Most of my friends from school have gone on to go to university. And I grew up in Stechford, Chelmsley Wood and Tile Cross. You shouldn't stereotype a group of people and brand everyone in Birmingham "scummy" and "low-lifes" as that's not the case at all. I happen to be very proud that I'm a brummie.
Its a small minority of people in birmingham that are 'scum', but that small miniority give other people bad names, i.e. a small minority of black people
can/do act in a in-human way, but that has an impact on every other black person in a way ?.
Now saying that in my head sounded easier to understand than typing it
Quote from: Sh4166 on August 07, 2013, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: danny on August 07, 2013, 08:56:42 PM
Second what jb93 is saying totally
Third
I don't live in Brum but i totally agree with what JB93 said. But the same as what JB93 applies to anywhere such as Wolverhampton/Birmingham/Walsall/Dudley etc
It took 19 days for Rat's comments to get a response! I didn't read in his post that he was tarring everyone with the same brush.
He was pretty specific in singling out tracksuit-wearers, and fast-food litterers, so I don't imagine any of you lads fall into his Jeremy Kyle chav persona stereotype.
I'm a proud local too, but I can recognise the type he's referring-to, and there's no shortage of 'em.
Innit blad, but it is frustrating, I mean, I'm a laddy lad kindof guy, I go out have a laugh, get drunk on the ocasional night out, to some people looking from outside in, they would probably think Ohh they do nothing, but as stated above, I work, I go to uni and want to better myself and my career prospects, I come from a long line of the working class. But sometimes, i will nip out in my joggers, have a fag waiting for the bus, but I wouldn't smok on the bus, gob in any circu
Or be rude to anyone I don't know, their is all this talk about broken britain, the youth of today and how respect is gone, how can a young person be sucessful in life if they have already been type cast, and why do people young and old sit their and complain about the wrong doings of the youth of today and never celebrate the possitive inpact that most young people have on socioty. It seems we get a raw deal in an unforgiving world
And my responce is an example. I am fully aware that older people wear trakkies and are pigs when they are out, but also that this is a small minority
And to stay with topic, by the borisbus!