Surprised that nobody has commented on this article from the Express & Star
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport-news/2013/06/25/conductors-set-to-be-back-on-west-midlands-buses/
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on June 26, 2013, 01:39:58 PM
Surprised that nobody has commented on this article from the Express & Star
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport-news/2013/06/25/conductors-set-to-be-back-on-west-midlands-buses/
Already seen it, hope they don't do it, would be an unnecessary waste of resources and space on the bus
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on June 26, 2013, 01:39:58 PM
Surprised that nobody has commented on this article from the Express & Star
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport-news/2013/06/25/conductors-set-to-be-back-on-west-midlands-buses/
I saw it yesterday & was going to post the link, but got side tracked....... they have increased the number of staff for the Safer travel team, they may well increase the number of stop checks. But can't see conductors being brought back en masse otherwise bus fares will rocket.... they may target hot spots with undercover police from the safer travel team or employ further inspectors, but that will be about it
I remember a few years ago on the Wolverhampton night bus services, the local nightclubs contributed to the cost of having bouncers on each bus and I don't remember seeing any issues on the ones I used
Whilst they're there they might as well bring back the old Birmingham Guy's!
I don't see anyone from either centro or an operator suggesting that they are actually considering conductors, only a request from a councillor.
Quote from: mikestone on June 26, 2013, 08:45:39 PM
I don't see anyone from either centro or an operator suggesting that they are actually considering conductors, only a request from a councillor.
local rag to you
I'd support it completely. I've been on many, many buses where idiots have just got on and not paid, or are blasting music, or don't take their ticket. If, NXWM particularly as they're the biggest operator, had a conductor on at least the most notorious routes it would help. They're less likely to cause trouble if there's a member of staff there watching them, whereas at the moment most drivers don't seem to do anything to stop these kids (and that's not a dig at drivers, I have a great amount of respect for them) but the fact of the matter is too many people get away with fare-dodging, or vandalism, or bothering other passengers. Money well spent, I'd say.
Quote from: JB93 on June 27, 2013, 12:31:23 PM
I'd support it completely. I've been on many, many buses where idiots have just got on and not paid, or are blasting music, or don't take their ticket. If, NXWM particularly as they're the biggest operator, had a conductor on at least the most notorious routes it would help. They're less likely to cause trouble if there's a member of staff there watching them, whereas at the moment most drivers don't seem to do anything to stop these kids (and that's not a dig at drivers, I have a great amount of respect for them) but the fact of the matter is too many people get away with fare-dodging, or vandalism, or bothering other passengers. Money well spent, I'd say.
Indeed! But the only way it'll work is if 100% of that service has conductors. (Will drivers still issue tickets?)
It will fail on its arse they said, for instance, every other vehicle will have a conductor on board.
I wouldn't mind giving it a go. Childhood relived haha
It simply is unviable to put conductors back onto West Midlands buses. To start with you would be looking at doubling the staffing complement, for every driver you would need a conductor. Then there is the question of whether you would want conductors to handle cash and give out change. One of the reasons conductors were dispensed with by WMPTE in the 1970's was the frequency of attacks on them for their cashbag - and a look through any newspaper archive from the period will record plenty of stories of robberies for cash.
People point to their use in London, but of course public money is sloshing into TfL like it is going out of fashion. When the reality check kicks in then they will have to look at saving money. With Oystercards and Travelcards being used by the majority of passengers what is the point of paying someone to go round collecting fares?
Quote from: JB93 on June 27, 2013, 12:31:23 PM
I'd support it completely. I've been on many, many buses where idiots have just got on and not paid, or are blasting music, or don't take their ticket. If, NXWM particularly as they're the biggest operator, had a conductor on at least the most notorious routes it would help. They're less likely to cause trouble if there's a member of staff there watching them, whereas at the moment most drivers don't seem to do anything to stop these kids (and that's not a dig at drivers, I have a great amount of respect for them) but the fact of the matter is too many people get away with fare-dodging, or vandalism, or bothering other passengers. Money well spent, I'd say.
So have I, but I have been on trains which have conductors who do diddly squat apart from sitting in the back cab (the Cross City and Chiltern from Leamington Spa being the worst.) This is not money well spent, though I accept there are reasons way some rail staff do not feel comfortable on certain services.
Councillors and the media may think conductors are a good idea, but if they do not add value they are a non-starter. And many of those arguing for their re-introduction would not be happy if the quid pro quo was a series of service cutbacks so severe that it led to buses only operating during daytime hours and never on Sundays, which of course is the situation in many places outside of the West Midlands conurbation.
The dodgy services deffo, not every one!
Ive not seen a conductor do a ticket check on Cross City line for years (UNLESS it is outside of NWM region ie Lichfield or Redditch then it is done)
The rarity of ticket checking inside the PTE area makes me wonder if guards are told not to bother, as it saves LM having to pay commission and the financial loss is the PTE's anyway?
Quote from: vinh1000 on June 29, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
Ive not seen a conductor do a ticket check on Cross City line for years (UNLESS it is outside of NWM region ie Lichfield or Redditch then it is done)
Well my ticket was checked between Erdington and New Street today, biggest problem on the Cross City is stations are only two minutes apart with the conductor also having to do the doors. I have also had RPIs check my ticket on the south side a few times finding people to penalty fare
Bad idea; Money can be spent on better stuff than the 'new bus for birimgham'. What should happen is more safer travel police teams on buses
Quote from: Tony on June 29, 2013, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: vinh1000 on June 29, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
Ive not seen a conductor do a ticket check on Cross City line for years (UNLESS it is outside of NWM region ie Lichfield or Redditch then it is done)
Well my ticket was checked between Erdington and New Street today, biggest problem on the Cross City is stations are only two minutes apart with the conductor also having to do the doors. I have also had RPIs check my ticket on the south side a few times finding people to penalty fare
Am I right in thinking because of short time it can only be done at non-peak periods?? and I presume it is compulsory for them to check outside of PTE?
For safety the driver is told to stay in his cab, now what is the poor conductor to do he won't have anywhere to hide when today's troglodytes decide they want to attack someone purely for doing their job.
No in today's society it simply would not be safe to re-introduce conductors, the only option would be 2 police officers on each bus, which again wouldn't be "cost effective" or start using cattle trucks for some of the rougher routes ( as was once suggested to me by a NX inspector )
Anyone watching the Routemaster series on BBC TWO?
Dunno how London operations compare to WM operations, but some of the bus drivers have a patience of a saint.
Quote from: Westy on June 30, 2013, 08:25:35 AM
Anyone watching the Routemaster series on BBC TWO?
Dunno how London operations compare to WM operations, but some of the bus drivers have a patience of a saint.
Yes i've been watching it. It was about night buses on Tuesday.
If you look qt Birmingham you have one night service at an hourly frequency but you look at london and they have over 100 night service with one service (N25 ithink) being every 6 mins.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 30, 2013, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: Westy on June 30, 2013, 08:25:35 AM
Anyone watching the Routemaster series on BBC TWO?
Dunno how London operations compare to WM operations, but some of the bus drivers have a patience of a saint.
Yes i've been watching it. It was about night buses on Tuesday.
If you look qt Birmingham you have one night service at an hourly frequency but you look at london and they have over 100 night service with one service (N25 ithink) being every 6 mins.
They got that one wrong on the tv, the most frequent night bus is the N29 on Friday and saturday nights which leaves Trafalgar Square every
3 Minutes.
well with the introduction of swift to nxwm routes and this talk of conductors why not extend it to
"if they are going that far why not go all the way and introduce the borrismaster to brum?"
"if they are going that far why not go all the way and introduce the borrismaster to brum?"
Now wouldn't that be funny especially if it was a smaller operator who introduced them
Quote from: Steveminor on June 30, 2013, 02:36:58 PM
"if they are going that far why not go all the way and introduce the Borismaster to brum?"
Now wouldn't that be funny especially if it was a smaller operator who introduced them
Believe me you wouldn't like Borismasters in Brum.
I went to London to try them out when they were launched on route 24 last weekend to basically see whether they had improved since the original 8 were produced.
Unfortunately they haven't, firstly despite them being launched as the new alternative to the old Routemaster with Hop On - Hop Off available, the "Conductors" (i use the word conductor, although they don't collect fares) won't allow anyway to jump on or off except at a bus stop. At a bus stop, only an oyster card holder can board at any door, other tickets must be shown to the driver.
Despite it having an open back door during peak times, the bus has very few windows for ventilation with none on the upper deck. There is air conditioning, but it still gets really hot on the upper deck.
To me the bus is a total failure!!
"To me the bus is a total failure!!"
So when do Diamond get theres?
Quote from: dannygill on June 30, 2013, 02:08:25 PM
well with the introduction of swift to nxwm routes and this talk of conductors why not extend it to
"if they are going that far why not go all the way and introduce the borrismaster to brum?"
First problem is TfL have copyrighted it. No-one other than Wrights is allowed to build them for a few years, and Wrights are not allowed to sell them to anyone else
Quote from: Steveminor on June 30, 2013, 03:22:25 PM
"To me the bus is a total failure!!"
So when do Diamond get theres?
Sometime never, as Diamond seem to be shy splashing the cash on new buses
All they need to do re. conductors is what I've experienced in Holland - zero tolerance spot checks, far more often than you see them at the moment. Can be cruel to foreigners or people who are genuinely clueless and have no idea where theyre going etc, but by christ it works
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
Quote from: andyr on July 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
It`s actually £354,000 per unit, which is a disgrace considering that two staff are needed if the rear door is to be open.
I watched the programme on BBC2 on Tuesday night, where they showed these buses running on route 38, what they failed to say is that since the filming, TFL have removed the financing for the 2nd man (conductor) and the buses are now running conventionally with the rear door closed.
WHAT?????????!!!!!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 04, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: andyr on July 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
It`s actually £354,000 per unit, which is a disgrace considering that two staff are needed if the rear door is to be open.
I watched the programme on BBC2 on Tuesday night, where they showed these buses running on route 38, what they failed to say is that since the filming, TFL have removed the financing for the 2nd man (conductor) and the buses are now running conventionally with the rear door closed.
Another white elephant....
Why not just buy standard Hybrid double deckers @ approx £300k each and save Tfl around £54k per bus
Quote from: Winston on July 05, 2013, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 04, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: andyr on July 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
It`s actually £354,000 per unit, which is a disgrace considering that two staff are needed if the rear door is to be open.
I watched the programme on BBC2 on Tuesday night, where they showed these buses running on route 38, what they failed to say is that since the filming, TFL have removed the financing for the 2nd man (conductor) and the buses are now running conventionally with the rear door closed.
Another white elephant....
Why not just buy standard Hybrid double deckers @ approx £300k each and save Tfl around £54k per bus
They are total white elephants, Boris Johnson should be ashamed of himself.
Latest i hear is massive complaints because there are no windows upstairs and the air conditioning isn't working correctly.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 05, 2013, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 05, 2013, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 04, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: andyr on July 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
It`s actually £354,000 per unit, which is a disgrace considering that two staff are needed if the rear door is to be open.
I watched the programme on BBC2 on Tuesday night, where they showed these buses running on route 38, what they failed to say is that since the filming, TFL have removed the financing for the 2nd man (conductor) and the buses are now running conventionally with the rear door closed.
Another white elephant....
Why not just buy standard Hybrid double deckers @ approx £300k each and save Tfl around £54k per bus
They are total white elephants, Boris Johnson should be ashamed of himself.
Latest i hear is massive complaints because there are no windows upstairs and the air conditioning isn't working correctly.
I disagree. These buses will save money as they are bought by TfL themselves then allocated out to a company, meaning they have full lives in london until fully depreciated, meaning when offering tenders, operators dont factor in having vehicles to buy and the fact that they might not be able to sell them once they have finished their contracts. This means cheaper contracts and an iconic, recognisable bus that tourists will love-everyone wins!!
Quote from: Peter123 on July 05, 2013, 04:12:30 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 05, 2013, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: Winston on July 05, 2013, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 04, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: andyr on July 03, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
At a cost of over £345.000 per unit i doubt any operator would consider it a viable option. Having travelled on a numbet of them my opinion is they are nothing special. The lower deck is ok but upstairs is far low and clostraphobic. (yes i know spelt incorrectly). Perhapes with Wrights being so busy building these lame ducks the abvantage as been given to ADL for other orders.
It`s actually £354,000 per unit, which is a disgrace considering that two staff are needed if the rear door is to be open.
I watched the programme on BBC2 on Tuesday night, where they showed these buses running on route 38, what they failed to say is that since the filming, TFL have removed the financing for the 2nd man (conductor) and the buses are now running conventionally with the rear door closed.
Another white elephant....
Why not just buy standard Hybrid double deckers @ approx £300k each and save Tfl around £54k per bus
They are total white elephants, Boris Johnson should be ashamed of himself.
Latest i hear is massive complaints because there are no windows upstairs and the air conditioning isn't working correctly.
I disagree. These buses will save money as they are bought by TfL themselves then allocated out to a company, meaning they have full lives in london until fully depreciated, meaning when offering tenders, operators dont factor in having vehicles to buy and the fact that they might not be able to sell them once they have finished their contracts. This means cheaper contracts and an iconic, recognisable bus that tourists will love-everyone wins!!
I wish i could like these buses, but i fear that they are a big mistake.
Route 24 which was the first route to be totally converted to these buses a fortnight ago is mid contract. Metroline had only recently bought new buses for this route and they had only been in service since last June.