Am I right in thinking that although First will have no presence in Redditch they will still run the 292 and the 303 in Kidderminster?
Are there any odd workings by Worcester garage on the 294/295 or any other odds and ends eg Bark Hill shorts on the 292?
Quote from: arrifirststage on February 26, 2013, 01:06:10 PM
Am I right in thinking that although First will have no presence in Redditch they will still run the 292 and the 303 in Kidderminster?
Are there any odd workings by Worcester garage on the 294/295 or any other odds and ends eg Bark Hill shorts on the 292?
no they will not be running on anything in Kidderminster or from Kidderminster 2 links to first site you will see the information,
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/worcestershire_herefordshire/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=9581&conf=0
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/worcestershire_herefordshire/journey_planning/timetables/index.php?operator=14&page=1&redirect=no
know I have already post these links could not remember in which thread to tell other poster to look in to see
Thanks for the links.........but I am still unsure where it says the 292/303 will be transferring to Diamond,although you are probably correct.
Conversely then Diamond buses will have a larger presence in Worcester with these routes.
I agree that First are not the best in the world,but I have even less faith in Diamond of any colour if their West Midland operations are any benchmark,pity Redditch never went to Stagecoach and Kidderminster to Whittle (though with any luck the latter could still happen).
Quote from: arrifirststage on February 26, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
Thanks for the links.........but I am still unsure where it says the 292/303 will be transferring to Diamond,although you are probably correct.
Conversely then Diamond buses will have a larger presence in Worcester with these routes.
I agree that First are not the best in the world,but I have even less faith in Diamond of any colour if their West Midland operations are any benchmark,pity Redditch never went to Stagecoach and Kidderminster to Whittle (though with any luck the latter could still happen).
I have just taken it that first will not be running on the 292/303 /294/295 as yesterday when first altered there site the times of routes in Kidderminster and Redditch where changed to show that they where only up to the 2nd march . before they showed until futher notice ,
Quote from: arrifirststage on February 26, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
Thanks for the links.........but I am still unsure where it says the 292/303 will be transferring to Diamond,although you are probably correct.
Conversely then Diamond buses will have a larger presence in Worcester with these routes.
I agree that First are not the best in the world,but I have even less faith in Diamond of any colour if their West Midland operations are any benchmark,pity Redditch never went to Stagecoach and Kidderminster to Whittle (though with any luck the latter could still happen).
Looking at the Worcestershire CC site ( http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms/bus/timetables.aspx ) the following First routes are transferring to Diamond.
KR - 2,3,4,5,7,10,292,294,295,302,303,831,X3; RH - 26,51,55/A,56/A,57,58,142,143,145,146,247,S72,S75,S93
There are a lot of questions as to how Diamond will operate after the takeover now they've secured dominance in Redditch but perhaps that ought to be on a Rotala thread. With regard to First though, I would guess that Diamond and First will operate an unofficial non-aggression pact. First still have some interest in Bromsgrove with the 144, a service that I sentimentally hope continues- this stems from many days out to The Malverns on the top deck in the 1960s. From early 2015 of course there will be 3 trains an hour to Bromsgrove, which though the station's in the wrong place, will have some effect.
Quote from: busfan2847 on February 26, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
Quote from: arrifirststage on February 26, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
Thanks for the links.........but I am still unsure where it says the 292/303 will be transferring to Diamond,although you are probably correct.
Conversely then Diamond buses will have a larger presence in Worcester with these routes.
I agree that First are not the best in the world,but I have even less faith in Diamond of any colour if their West Midland operations are any benchmark,pity Redditch never went to Stagecoach and Kidderminster to Whittle (though with any luck the latter could still happen).
Looking at the Worcestershire CC site ( http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms/bus/timetables.aspx ) the following First routes are transferring to Diamond.
KR - 2,3,4,5,7,10,292,294,295,302,303,831,X3; RH - 26,51,55/A,56/A,57,58,142,143,145,146,247,S72,S75,S93
diamond will not be running on the 7 as it is a whittles diamond only shown on that timetable there is the 4a which the main is the 4 extend to the 7 terminus . it does not run along the 7 route at all
Quote from: 111 Roughley on February 26, 2013, 07:10:07 PM
There are a lot of questions as to how Diamond will operate after the takeover now they've secured dominance in Redditch but perhaps that ought to be on a Rotala thread. With regard to First though, I would guess that Diamond and First will operate an unofficial non-aggression pact. First still have some interest in Bromsgrove with the 144, a service that I sentimentally hope continues- this stems from many days out to The Malverns on the top deck in the 1960s. From early 2015 of course there will be 3 trains an hour to Bromsgrove, which though the station's in the wrong place, will have some effect.
Diamond Are operating Redditch and Kidderminster Depots as they are for now just with there own buses. The S93 will remain dd and First Redditch Child Fare will still apply. Diamond arent looking to change anything to much just in case it all hits the fan and is forced to go back the to how it was. Also as July sees alot of changes for September ie School services Diamond arent going to rock many boats to soon.
I'd be intrigued to see what they do with the 143/145 routes.
They used to do the 145 when it was cotteridge - bromsgrove, then First took it back to run it longbridge - bromsgrove and occasionally on to redditch.
Diamond have sold 6 Lances they are receiving off First this weekend, 5 for scrap and 246 for preservation, so don't expect to see any of them in service next week. Anyone needing to see/ride on/photograph them should get to Kidderminster in the next 3 days! 255 is the only one showing as surviving.
The KR fleet next week should be
Solos 20841 MX09HJG; 20844 MX58KZG; 15000 MX08MYT; 20026 MX08MZG
Darts 30930 VX54MUC; 30931 VX54MUO; 30932 VX54MUP; 31501 R220MSA
31510 R475CAH; 31500 R610YCR; 31507 R455CCV; 31505 P405MLA
31506 P406MLA; 31504 P404MLA; 31502 P402MLA; 31503 P403MLA
31508 N341EUY (Still showing on Rotala fleet, but I have been told from the first end this is being replaced by (P401 MLA)
Lance 31516 M255MRW
Redditch's fleet is showing as:
20201 KX03JBU; 20304 KX03HZJ; 20503 T71JBA; 20504 V266BNV;
20533 X372CUY; 20537 Y37SVV; 20546 T468HNH; 20573 W573JVV
20608 KU52YJY; 30013 Y3NBB; 30111 AE10CSF; 30428 S405JUA
30516 W906JNF; 30701 MW52PZP; 30802 KX08HMZ; 30803 BU08DBO
30804 KX57OVV; 30805 KX08HMY; 30831 MX08PZH; 30850 BU08DAO
30851 BU08DBX; 30852 BU08DBV; 30854 WX58FSE; 30855 WX58FRZ
30856 WX58FSD; 30857 BU08DHO; 30858 BU08DHP; 30859 WX58FSC
30860 WX58FRR; 30861 MX07OYT; 30862 BU08MTE; 30933 VX54MSU
30934 VX54MSY; 30935 VX54MTE;
40610 V857HBY; 40611 V860HBY; 40612 V862HBY; 40613 V877HBY
40614 T881KLF; 40615 V882HBY; 40616 T884KLF; 40617 T885KLF
40618 V886HBY; 40619 V894HLH;
42563 N963SOS; 42564 K123URP; 42565 K126URP
Both lists have been cut and pasted form a list sent to me by Rotala so don't blame me for any typos
Quote from: Tony on February 27, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Redditch's fleet is showing as:
20201 KX03JBU; 20304 KX03HZJ; 20503 T71JBA; 20504 V266BNV;
20533 X372CUY; 20537 Y37SVV; 20546 T468HNH; 20573 W573JVV
20608 KU52YJY; 30013 Y3NBB; 30111 AE10CSF; 30428 S405JUA
30516 W906JNF; 30701 MW52PZP; 30802 KX08HMZ; 30803 BU08DBO
30804 KX57OVV; 30805 KX08HMY; 30831 MX08PZH; 30850 BU08DAO
30851 BU08DBX; 30852 BU08DBV; 30854 WX58FSE; 30855 WX58FRZ
30856 WX58FSD; 30857 BU08DHO; 30858 BU08DHP; 30859 WX58FSC
30860 WX58FRR; 30861 MX07OYT; 30862 BU08MTE; 30933 VX54MSU
30934 VX54MSY; 30935 VX54MTE;
40610 V857HBY; 40611 V860HBY; 40612 V862HBY; 40613 V877HBY
40614 T881KLF; 40615 V882HBY; 40616 T884KLF; 40617 T885KLF
40618 V886HBY; 40619 V894HLH;
42563 N963SOS; 42564 K123URP; 42565 K126URP
Both lists have been cut and pasted form a list sent to me by Rotala so don't blame me for any typos
Have Rotala given any indication if they are intending to retain the Church Road depot?
30516 returning to red diamond after a couple of years at Tividale then. Also 30801 seems to be stopping at Long Acre.
Quote from: Tony on February 27, 2013, 06:02:59 PM
Diamond have sold 6 Lances they are receiving off First this weekend, 5 for scrap and 246 for preservation, so don't expect to see any of them in service next week. Anyone needing to see/ride on/photograph them should get to Kidderminster in the next 3 days! 255 is the only one showing as surviving.
The KR fleet next week should be
Solos 20841 MX09HJG; 20844 MX58KZG; 15000 MX08MYT; 20026 MX08MZG
Darts 30930 VX54MUC; 30931 VX54MUO; 30932 VX54MUP; 31501 R220MSA
31510 R475CAH; 31500 R610YCR; 31507 R455CCV; 31505 P405MLA
31506 P406MLA; 31504 P404MLA; 31502 P402MLA; 31503 P403MLA
31508 N341EUY (Still showing on Rotala fleet, but I have been told from the first end this is being replaced by (P401 MLA)
Lance 31516 M255MRW
Glad to see an ex mrw lance entering preservation!! Great news
Quote from: Ash on February 27, 2013, 06:16:26 PM
30516 returning to red diamond after a couple of years at Tividale then. Also 30801 seems to be stopping at Long Acre.
Haven't seen 30801 since it was first out a couple of weeks ago. Don't know where it has been-seriously this bus must have such a low mileage
Quote from: Tony on February 27, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Redditch's fleet is showing as:
20201 KX03JBU; 20304 KX03HZJ; 20503 T71JBA; 20504 V266BNV;
20533 X372CUY; 20537 Y37SVV; 20546 T468HNH; 20573 W573JVV
20608 KU52YJY; 30013 Y3NBB; 30111 AE10CSF; 30428 S405JUA
30516 W906JNF; 30701 MW52PZP; 30802 KX08HMZ; 30803 BU08DBO
30804 KX57OVV; 30805 KX08HMY; 30831 MX08PZH; 30850 BU08DAO
30851 BU08DBX; 30852 BU08DBV; 30854 WX58FSE; 30855 WX58FRZ
30856 WX58FSD; 30857 BU08DHO; 30858 BU08DHP; 30859 WX58FSC
30860 WX58FRR; 30861 MX07OYT; 30862 BU08MTE; 30933 VX54MSU
30934 VX54MSY; 30935 VX54MTE;
40610 V857HBY; 40611 V860HBY; 40612 V862HBY; 40613 V877HBY
40614 T881KLF; 40615 V882HBY; 40616 T884KLF; 40617 T885KLF
40618 V886HBY; 40619 V894HLH;
42563 N963SOS; 42564 K123URP; 42565 K126URP
Both lists have been cut and pasted form a list sent to me by Rotala so don't blame me for any typos
Interesting that redditch now has an ex wessex evolution bodied dart which it would be nice to have a ride on. Also, do we have any idea yet of what is happening to the 50 service as its current buses have been transferred over
Quote from: Tony on February 27, 2013, 06:02:59 PM
Diamond have sold 6 Lances they are receiving off First this weekend, 5 for scrap and 246 for preservation, so don't expect to see any of them in service next week. Anyone needing to see/ride on/photograph them should get to Kidderminster in the next 3 days! 255 is the only one showing as surviving.
The KR fleet next week should be
Solos 20841 MX09HJG; 20844 MX58KZG; 15000 MX08MYT; 20026 MX08MZG
Darts 30930 VX54MUC; 30931 VX54MUO; 30932 VX54MUP; 31501 R220MSA
31510 R475CAH; 31500 R610YCR; 31507 R455CCV; 31505 P405MLA
31506 P406MLA; 31504 P404MLA; 31502 P402MLA; 31503 P403MLA
31508 N341EUY (Still showing on Rotala fleet, but I have been told from the first end this is being replaced by (P401 MLA)
Lance 31516 M255MRW
Lance 31516 M255MRW could be that it is fitted with seatbelts and a orange school sign is fitted so might be for a school contract
Thought 20842 MX58KZM was due to come to Kidderminster as well
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
The signature one was around a couple of months back and it just has the normal material seating i think. I'm not sure why some were kept and some were sold just that the ones with black diamond were not that reliable, uncomfortable for passengers due to lack of leg room and drivers complained about the lack of space in the cab (leg room etc).
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
But they also sold some enviro200s with this bodywork too I just wondered why-can't be due to unreliability
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
But they also sold some enviro200s with this bodywork too I just wondered why-can't be due to unreliability
Not that I'm aware of, the Diamond 23 were all MAN's. What were the Enviro 200 fleetnumbers?
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
But they also sold some enviro200s with this bodywork too I just wondered why-can't be due to unreliability
Not that I'm aware of, the Diamond 23 were all MAN's. What were the Enviro 200 fleetnumbers?
30102 and 30103 for a start and think there were more that went as well to NZ
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
But they also sold some enviro200s with this bodywork too I just wondered why-can't be due to unreliability
Not that I'm aware of, the Diamond 23 were all MAN's. What were the Enviro 200 fleetnumbers?
30102 and 30103 for a start and think there were more that went as well to NZ
Did those ones go from Wessex then?
http://londonbuspics.smugmug.com/Operators-RotalaGroup/Wessex-Connect/22733707_LD4sbX/1823647109_xBhpHM2#!i=1825654369&k=BtNv7nx
http://londonbuspics.smugmug.com/Operators-RotalaGroup/Wessex-Connect/22733707_LD4sbX/1823647109_xBhpHM2#!i=1823647109&k=xBhpHM2
http://wmbusphotos.com/centralConnect/30102.html
They both went from blue diamond, although both white, se photo above and link to next both on the 10H
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on February 27, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
I always wanted to ask this as well and the topic of AE10 CSF has reminded me. Why did rotala sell the evolution bodied darts to tranzit if the problems with the buses diamond had were due to the MAN chassis? Always wondered-why didnt they keep the ones blue diamond had running in white at one time-picture on this site. Just interested does the rotala group have many of these buses left at other depots and are the signature ones still aroung? Didn't they have normal interiors as well or have I made that up or are there ones with leather seats etc.
Not sure if I'm reading your question right? but the 23 x MCV Evolutions that were sold to Transit were on MAN chassis (different chassis to the MAN/Plaxton Centro's, the particular chassis they were built on had reliability issues I believe), the MCV's that remained at Rotala including the above were on Dart chassis
But they also sold some enviro200s with this bodywork too I just wondered why-can't be due to unreliability
Not that I'm aware of, the Diamond 23 were all MAN's. What were the Enviro 200 fleetnumbers?
30102 and 30103 for a start and think there were more that went as well to NZ
Did those ones go from Wessex then?
http://londonbuspics.smugmug.com/Operators-RotalaGroup/Wessex-Connect/22733707_LD4sbX/1823647109_xBhpHM2#!i=1825654369&k=BtNv7nx
http://londonbuspics.smugmug.com/Operators-RotalaGroup/Wessex-Connect/22733707_LD4sbX/1823647109_xBhpHM2#!i=1823647109&k=xBhpHM2
The last time I saw these two buses was last year and they were both debranded and working blue diamond's X30 at the time in plain white.
Thanks Tony/Ash,
Don't remember those coming up to the Midlands
No Probs Winston, After looking at diamond's fleetlist's the age of the vehicles they have are not too bad but most seem to be around the early 2000's and are mostly the midi pointer darts and solo's. Any investment into the midlands needs to be to replace the remaining red and white darts in service may be accept for the W???VGX one's so would probably need around 15 vehicles shame they don't make the centro's anymore would have been an ideal choice already having quite a few in service.
Quote from: Ash on February 27, 2013, 11:08:37 PM
No Probs Winston, After looking at diamond's fleetlist's the age of the vehicles they have are not too bad but most seem to be around the early 2000's and are mostly the midi pointer darts and solo's. Any investment into the midlands needs to be to replace the remaining red and white darts in service may be accept for the W???VGX one's so would probably need around 15 vehicles shame they don't make the centro's anymore would have been an ideal choice already having quite a few in service.
There are Centro's available on the second hand market, Tanat Valley have recently bought two 08 plate examples ex Alton Towers
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2013, 11:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ash on February 27, 2013, 11:08:37 PM
No Probs Winston, After looking at diamond's fleetlist's the age of the vehicles they have are not too bad but most seem to be around the early 2000's and are mostly the midi pointer darts and solo's. Any investment into the midlands needs to be to replace the remaining red and white darts in service may be accept for the W???VGX one's so would probably need around 15 vehicles shame they don't make the centro's anymore would have been an ideal choice already having quite a few in service.
There are Centro's available on the second hand market, Tanat Valley have recently bought two 08 plate examples ex Alton Towers
I definitely think Rotala should consider doing something similar for diamond but buy in bulk numbers if some are available on the market rather than just the odd bus like they have done with the enviro 200 they have introduced.
I can confirm that P401 MLA has now left First Hereford Depot for Kidderminster
Quote from: lrew120585 on February 28, 2013, 10:19:07 PM
I can confirm that P401 MLA has now left First Hereford Depot for Kidderminster
When I saw the list to transfer I thought it would have made more sense to keep the P40X MLA darts together...
Am I right in thinking that First will now keep 42641?
Quote from: StourportSam on February 28, 2013, 10:44:31 PM
Quote from: lrew120585 on February 28, 2013, 10:19:07 PM
I can confirm that P401 MLA has now left First Hereford Depot for Kidderminster
When I saw the list to transfer I thought it would have made more sense to keep the P40X MLA darts together...
Am I right in thinking that First will now keep 42641?
from another user wf could be kept don't realy know as they are only supposed to be stopping not long and firs will have enough bus I would think with the eviros going there from Redditch ,
42641 will be scrapped. 11 enviros to transfer to Worcester tomorrow night and 5 to Hereford although the ones at Hereford may not see service, however they do need to find a replacement for 42401!
Quote from: lrew120585 on March 01, 2013, 07:10:24 AM
42641 will be scrapped. 11 enviros to transfer to Worcester tomorrow night and 5 to Hereford although the ones at Hereford may not see service, however they do need to find a replacement for 42401!
they could be used to replace the y reg ex wr park p&r darts that are there