With it widely >:( speculated that a new batch of double deckers will replace singles on busier routes, which do we think or want to be converted.
As a passanger. Who travels in the peak. I have to nominate the 120, yes we recently had new volvos, but it comes to something when passangers are left waiting on colmore row on an evening and from thimblemill road of a morning, with lenthy gaps due to traffic (not NX fault, I know) it is slightly frustrating when you done an 8 hour day and are greeted with single deckers full to capacity.
This is merely a suggestion, from a peak traveler, it is rare I use the route outside peak periods, any other suggestions?
Personally, looking at Pensnett routes (my local garage), I agree that the 120 should be full double deck or at least some boards that pick up the school traffic etc.
In addition I think the 140, 241, 246, 276 & X96 would all benefit from the increased carrying capacity of double deckers.
I think the proportion of double deckers in NXWM's fleet should be increased to a third single deckers (circa 500) & two thirds double deckers (circa 1000). Double deckers are people movers & take up less garage space than 12M single deckers.
In Cannock, Arriva's 60 to Lichfield definately needs them at times but it is stupidly bloody interworked with a single deck low bridge route and the 74 to Stafford needs them too
What was the proportion of double deckers to single deckers in the 'old WMPTE days'?
In Walsall, it was always double decks in service, you never saw single decks normally, unless it was private hire!
Quote from: Westy on February 03, 2013, 02:35:01 PM
What was the proportion of double deckers to single deckers in the 'old WMPTE days'?
In Walsall, it was always double decks in service, you never saw single decks normally, unless it was private hire!
WMPTE's policy was to use double decks wherever possible - as indeed was the case with the five Corporations before the PTE. Midland Red used single deckers much more widely, so there were several single-to-double-deck changes in the PTE era.
I think it was vandalism and anti-social behaviour upstairs that made West Midlands Travel decide to increase the proportion of single decks.
98 do need double deckers in the peak periods
After deregulation when Walsall lost its Ailsa's / VRTs, it was intended to be entirely Metrobus, but there were several Leyland Nationals based there incl some dual purpose, did these leave right away when Walsall's Lynxes arrived? Or did they stay a bit longer? Of course, Nationals/Fleetlines returned in the mid 90s
Quote from: Sayeed_M on February 03, 2013, 03:02:42 PM
98 do need double deckers in the peak periods
The singles cope pretty well on 29/X64/98 from my observations and theres less vandalism.
The 289 seems a well used service not sure about the 53 it inter works with, when the 238 was fully operated by WB metrobuses or alx400's were often seen on the service to cope with demand. Especially now the 5 has had it's frequency increased to every 8 minutes I'm still to be convinced it needs double deckers. I know it can get busy leaving Sutton Coldfield but whenever I see between Pheasy and West Bromwich in either direction single deckers would seem sufficient to cope with patronage.
Quote from: Ash on February 03, 2013, 03:53:55 PM
Especially now the 5 has had it's frequency increased to every 8 minutes I'm still to be convinced it needs double deckers. I know it can get busy leaving Sutton Coldfield but whenever I see between Pheasy and West Bromwich in either direction single deckers would seem sufficient to cope with patronage.
It does need double deckers at peak times. I remember going to college on the 451's and they were always full, with standing loads. Even Now, single deckers are full up by the time they reach Kingstanding Circle heading to Sutton and go past the stop full. The same leaving Sutton at end of school and 5pm, they are all full. Yes daytime workings could be put on single deckers but they would not cope at peak time.
Buses in those days were used far more by able bodied people (e.g.factory workers) who went up stairs. Nowadays when doubles are put on some routes the downstairs fills up and people stand downstairs despite seats being available. NXWM seems incapable of communicating to the extent of putting a sign up to encourage people to go upstairs like in Reading or equipping buses with public address for drivers to use .
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
Quote from: John on February 03, 2013, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: Ash on February 03, 2013, 03:53:55 PM
Especially now the 5 has had it's frequency increased to every 8 minutes I'm still to be convinced it needs double deckers. I know it can get busy leaving Sutton Coldfield but whenever I see between Pheasy and West Bromwich in either direction single deckers would seem sufficient to cope with patronage.
It does need double deckers at peak times. I remember going to college on the 451's and they were always full, with standing loads. Even Now, single deckers are full up by the time they reach Kingstanding Circle heading to Sutton and go past the stop full. The same leaving Sutton at end of school and 5pm, they are all full. Yes daytime workings could be put on single deckers but they would not cope at peak time.
I agree it can get busy between Kingstanding and Sutton Coldfield last week I was on a 5 at around 5pm from the Kingstanding Circle to Scott Arms and there was about 6 on board downstairs with a couple upstairs. Went into the shop got what I needed and got the 5 behind it at Scott Arms with about 3 people downstairs and only me upstairs by the time we got to West Bromwich there was only me on the bus.
A question would it be better to just put an increased S/D service instead of just DD with the problems of anti social behaviour and people just not going upstairs.
Quote from: Discodave on February 03, 2013, 10:05:51 PM
A question would it be better to just put an increased S/D service instead of just DD with the problems of anti social behaviour and people just not going upstairs.
Obvious respone to that would be - need more drivers
37.
I want it to go back to double deck. I hate the route now, it's too cramped up inside the Scanias.
It'd be great to see the 72 go double decker, as from personal experience having to travel on it twice a day, 5 days a week when I used it to get to college, it was very very very overcrowded between Chelmsley Wood and Solihull. Before it extended to Birmingham and started interworking with the 71 it was extremely rare to see a single decker on it, but now, because of the low bridge in Minworth that the 71 goes under, it has to be single deck operated. It's a shame because I would love to see Gemini's in Marston Green again :P
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
Quote from: Rob H on February 04, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
Don't put Omnilink's on the 90! :P but I have to agree with you - capacity-wise it makes more sense for the 55/A to be double deck operated rather than the 90.
Quote from: JB93 on February 04, 2013, 01:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rob H on February 04, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
Don't put Omnilink's on the 90! :P but I have to agree with you - capacity-wise it makes more sense for the 55/A to be double deck operated rather than the 90.
I had an Omnilink on the 90 once, not one of my finest journeys, has to be said
Quote from: Shaun on February 04, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: JB93 on February 04, 2013, 01:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rob H on February 04, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
Don't put Omnilink's on the 90! :P but I have to agree with you - capacity-wise it makes more sense for the 55/A to be double deck operated rather than the 90.
I had an Omnilink on the 90 once, not one of my finest journeys, has to be said
I was on a B6LE on it once, on a very rare working. That was... interesting. Can't remember the date or fleetnumber, I just decided I'd take the long way to Birmingham.
Quote from: JoNi on February 03, 2013, 04:14:26 PM
Buses in those days were used far more by able bodied people (e.g.factory workers) who went up stairs. Nowadays when doubles are put on some routes the downstairs fills up and people stand downstairs despite seats being available. NXWM seems incapable of communicating to the extent of putting a sign up to encourage people to go upstairs like in Reading or equipping buses with public address for drivers to use .
Agreed But I'm an able bodied person and go upstairs only when I 'have to' I would rather sit downstairs any day. Also many passengers able or not so able just want to sit (or stand) as close to the door as possible so they can get off quicker and easier. Personally I wish all the buses were single deckers! Also I dont think NX have to remind passengers that there is an upstairs!!
Quote from: Rob H on February 04, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
I liked the 55 when Washwood Heath (I was a kid then) ran it was always deckers and was a busy route and still is cannot understand why singles are on it. I know claribels are on but a lot still have NX passes and tickets.
Quote from: Discodave on February 06, 2013, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: Rob H on February 04, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 03, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
I always enjoyed the 55 route before the influx of Omnilinks. Hate it now. As well as some overcrowdings, the Omnilinks are far more cramped that the Mercs before them. Would love to see a return to double deckers, but unless the route changes garages again, I can't see that happening!
If the 55/55A were to move Garages the best option would be to send it back to BC and send the 90 to BY in exchange but as you say Gareth can't see it happening
I liked the 55 when Washwood Heath (I was a kid then) ran it was always deckers and was a busy route and still is cannot understand why singles are on it. I know claribels are on but a lot still have NX passes and tickets.
Even when the 55 was operated by Lea Hall there were still always a lot of Metrobuses or Tridents on it. The other thing that annoys me as well is that they're ALL in TWM livery still, they just stick out like a sore thumb when they're in the city centre and most other buses are in the NXWM livery now.
There are 3 in NX livery 1790/2 and 1833. Don't really notice the livery issue. Where I live, there are a vast number of buses in the old livery, mainly on the 8,14,55,90 and 94. However the repaints are coming quite fast with the Tridents and B7s
Quote from: Gareth on February 08, 2013, 03:29:44 PM
There are 3 in NX livery 1790/2 and 1833. Don't really notice the livery issue. Where I live, there are a vast number of buses in the old livery, mainly on the 8,14,55,90 and 94. However the repaints are coming quite fast with the Tridents and B7s
I think it's fair to say that in terms of standards and livery refurbs a lot of the old Lea Hall routes have been left till last and neglected in my view.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on February 11, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 08, 2013, 03:29:44 PM
There are 3 in NX livery 1790/2 and 1833. Don't really notice the livery issue. Where I live, there are a vast number of buses in the old livery, mainly on the 8,14,55,90 and 94. However the repaints are coming quite fast with the Tridents and B7s
I think it's fair to say that in terms of standards and livery refurbs a lot of the old Lea Hall routes have been left till last and neglected in my view.
I'd have to agree with you there. The 94 used to be one of Lea Hall's showcase routes and now its just allocated whatever run-down ALX400's PB have left over. Same with the 55 - it used to be a reliable double-deck service and is now operated by unrefurbished Omnilinks. I think the only ex-LH route I can think of that's benefitted since it's closure is the 17 since it's gone from Mercs to Omnilinks.
As I remember from its late LH days, the 54/55 were a mix of mercs and omnilinks with the odd trident. Then when BC took over, it was Omnilink - Monday to Saturday and Tridents on Sunday
Quote from: Shaun on February 19, 2013, 12:14:24 AM
As I remember from its late LH days, the 54/55 were a mix of mercs and omnilinks with the odd trident. Then when BC took over, it was Omnilink - Monday to Saturday and Tridents on Sunday
Most of their routes were like that just before they closed. the 13 and 26 had half de-branded 97 OmniLink's, with just the 97 taken off the branding, and the 97 had 0405N's and Trident's.
I loved the 13 route :)
As it's mentioned above, can I ask how bad anti social behaviour and vanadlism levels were in the West Midlands Travel era? Worse than today or not as bad?
I think that things are alot better tbf, dri[ :-Xsup][/sup]vers I've seen tend not to take much crap, and my regular routes are across the board, 120, 126, b'ham 45/47, 101 wb 4/5 and sutton lines.
WMT had a huge problem with graffiti in the late 80s. Outsides of buses were totally covered in some cases. The whole fleet had to be fitted with cameras ( or in some cases dummy cameras I believe). Some Metrobuses were fitted with doors blocking off the upper deck on late night services.
Smoking was still allowed until l990/1991, but when it was banned, people on the the whole stuck to the rules.
I believe that problems on the buses now are far, far worse than those days. If anything, smoking on buses has got worse since the whole UK ban came into being from 2007.
Although their buses don't enter Birmingham, I've been impressed with the presentation of National Express Coventry buses I have never saw a bus with any graffiti or any substantial etching to the windows in fact I can't remember any. I think etching is a major problem especially on the double deckers as nearly every bus will have it. Does the whole window have to be replaced or can etching be easily removed as I noticed now some windows are covered in a plastic sheet to eliminate any etching on the actual window.
Quote from: Ash on March 20, 2013, 02:01:23 AM
Although their buses don't enter Birmingham, I've been impressed with the presentation of National Express Coventry buses I have never saw a bus with any graffiti or any substantial etching to the windows in fact I can't remember any. I think etching is a major problem especially on the double deckers as nearly every bus will have it. Does the whole window have to be replaced or can etching be easily removed as I noticed now some windows are covered in a plastic sheet to eliminate any etching on the actual window.
I'd go as far as to saying they're better presented than NXWM buses, I've caught a lot of NXC buses and I was really impressed with the lack of seat burnings, etchings etc. their tridents are in pretty good condition
Quote from: Gareth on March 20, 2013, 12:27:22 AM
WMT had a huge problem with graffiti in the late 80s. Outsides of buses were totally covered in some cases. The whole fleet had to be fitted with cameras ( or in some cases dummy cameras I believe). Some Metrobuses were fitted with doors blocking off the upper deck on late night services.
Smoking was still allowed until l990/1991, but when it was banned, people on the the whole stuck to the rules.
I believe that problems on the buses now are far, far worse than those days. If anything, smoking on buses has got worse since the whole UK ban came into being from 2007.
I remember a report on Central News in the late 80s about damage to bus seat covers nearly bankrupting west midlands travel due to the cost of seat repairs
I seem to remember that report too. They showed the inside of what I presume was Tyburn Road, with loads of workers recovering seats.
I reckon the 241 could do with some double deckers, at peak time at least when a B7RLE can be pretty busy.
Quote from: Gareth on March 20, 2013, 07:21:02 PM
I seem to remember that report too. They showed the inside of what I presume was Tyburn Road, with loads of workers recovering seats.
Those same workers (and some still are the same) now do the same job at Miller Street, but now mostly just doing worn out seats instead of vandalised ones
Definitely need deckers on the WB48. Mercs in the afternoon are rammed with Sandwell College students and kids from Holly Lodge and Bristnall Hall Academy.
Quote from: uniquicity on April 17, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
Definitely need deckers on the WB48. Mercs in the afternoon are rammed with Sandwell College students and kids from Holly Lodge and Bristnall Hall Academy.
I would have thought WB would have retained some of the presidents it sent to Yardley Wood and Acock's Green for service like the 5/48/49 as when the metrobuses were in service both services 448/449 were always double decker operated and obviously like your pointing out there was a reason for them.
Ever since the 448A was created, the 448 (now 48) has been predominantly single deck. I suppose the 129 helps supplement the heavy loadings from West Brom, but I still think the 48 requires doubles, some of the loadings don't justify single decker workings
I saw a WB ALX400 go past on the 75 the other day, I didn't catch the fleetnumber, but I've never seen a NXWM bus in a more sorry condition - still had the green branding, looked like it had never been refurbished, the seats were faded etc. and the worst was literally every single window upstairs was covered in massive etchings, it was a disgrace to be honest that they've been allowed to get into this condition while they refurbish buses that are still looking good.
Quote from: Ash on April 17, 2013, 12:33:25 AM
Quote from: uniquicity on April 17, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
Definitely need deckers on the WB48. Mercs in the afternoon are rammed with Sandwell College students and kids from Holly Lodge and Bristnall Hall Academy.
I would have thought WB would have retained some of the presidents it sent to Yardley Wood and Acock's Green for service like the 5/48/49 as when the metrobuses were in service both services 448/449 were always double decker operated and obviously like your pointing out therke was a reason for them.
Good idea, but what would WB give in return?
Quote from: dgss1 on April 17, 2013, 04:32:42 PM
Quote from: Ash on April 17, 2013, 12:33:25 AM
Quote from: uniquicity on April 17, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
Definitely need deckers on the WB48. Mercs in the afternoon are rammed with Sandwell College students and kids from Holly Lodge and Bristnall Hall Academy.
I would have thought WB would have retained some of the presidents it sent to Yardley Wood and Acock's Green for service like the 5/48/49 as when the metrobuses were in service both services 448/449 were always double decker operated and obviously like your pointing out therke was a reason for them.
Good idea, but what would WB give in return?
With the new hybrids at Wolverhampton may be transferring some of the older tridents Wolverhampton has to Yardley Wood instead of Birmingham and sending the presidents in return to WB withdrawing some more mercs or b6le's.
#5 Wolverhampton to Codsall, during rush hour mornings & evenings.
Many times has the #5 gone past stops full of waiting people already being chocker with passengers sitting and standing. Would only need double deckers at these times though, keep the Codsall Clipper branded Urban 2s otherwise.
Here is one suggestion X96 ;)
Jack2001, I hope your not making up these random topics to boost your post count?
--
X64 in peak times (excluding the 829 DD board)
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 10:02:00 PM
Here is one suggestion X96 ;)
It was supposed to have the recent tridents but turns out more B7RLE's have been drafted in!
There are some routes that could do with double deckers but are prevented in some ways such as low bridges
No. Just felt that routes that are single decker operated are not getting double deckers when routes that have double deckers don't need them.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on November 30, 2013, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 10:02:00 PM
Here is one suggestion X96 ;)
There are some routes that could do with double deckers but are prevented in some ways such as low bridges
The 17 and 71 are a good example of this!
I'd quite like to see the 4 be given a few deckers from time to time, the problem allegedly is the route the deckers take when NIS to get back to Walsall, didn't have that problem when it was at WB! I wouldn't necessarily say it NEEDED to be decker, it usually seems dead if you go all the way to Blackheath in my experience, but it would be good, especially for the 4M at this time of year.
defiantly the 4M as that is always packed to merry hill and back
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 10:59:54 PM
defiantly the 4M as that is always packed to merry hill and back
Yeah I agree, the 4M usually seems MUCH busier than the shorter 4s. I haven't seen any yet but I bet the saturday 4Ms are proving 'interesting' lately.
yep. Was at merry hill yesterday and there was a huge crowd of people waiting for the 4M. People were waiting outside the stand and when the 4M left merry hill there was only a few people left. The fleetnumber was 1896
A thread has already been created on this topic, but I'd nominate the X96 (between Dudley & Merry Hill), it's been iterated an obsessive amount of times that doubles are needed for the route. Also, the 246 should receive mostly Tridents, with only one or two singles a day
I was under the impression that buses had to use certain routes when running to & from the garage for various reasons.
(In fact at the recent AG open day, I remember seeing a notice pinned up telling drivers on the 11 to use certain roads due to complaints & I think it was a disaplinerary offence not to do so!)
I'm guessing all garages would have similar restrictions, so what is stopping Walsall sticking double deckers on the Bradford Place routes? Surely when Walsall was mostly DD operations, there was DD on the Bradford Place routes? I mean, you never saw single deckers on a regular basis in town until the mid 1990's!
(Yes I am aware of Bridgeman Street before someone says so!)
Quote from: Westy on December 01, 2013, 12:50:37 AM
I was under the impression that buses had to use certain routes when running to & from the garage for various reasons.
(In fact at the recent AG open day, I remember seeing a notice pinned up telling drivers on the 11 to use certain roads due to complaints & I think it was a disaplinerary offence not to do so!)
I'm guessing all garages would have similar restrictions, so what is stopping Walsall sticking double deckers on the Bradford Place routes? Surely when Walsall was mostly DD operations, there was DD on the Bradford Place routes? I mean, you never saw single deckers on a regular basis in town until the mid 1990's!
(Yes I am aware of Bridgeman Street before someone says so!)
In Solihull, theres 2 roads, Broad Oaks Rd & Ashleigh Rd, that buses aren't supposed to use now. Signs have even been put up telling bus dirvers not to use them!
The 55. I've never understood the reasoning in making it a fully single decker route. Between Birmingham and Buckland End it's always rammed.
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 10:59:54 PM
defiantly the 4M as that is always packed to merry hill and back
The 4 4H 4M 311/313 34/39 will never see double deck as they are not
Allowed on Bradford place services due to past incidents of
Double decks going under low bridge when returning back to garage.
3031 was operating 311 one night returned to garage and
Went under low bridge by Bradford place.
Was sold to City sightseeing as open topper
Walsall 10/10A are often fully loaded daytime and peak.
At least 5 out of 8 buses should be double deck.
WA89 needs a few more double deckers Mon-Sat. It gets packed in Walsall on quite a few journeys and the Wolverhampton-Wednesfield section can get very busy aswell. I think there are currently about two boards that are tridents but i think that it should be increased to about 4-5 boards
Quote from: Sh4166 on December 01, 2013, 12:26:54 AM
A thread has already been created on this topic
Indeed it has -->clicky<-- (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=1331.msg26679#msg26679)
Topic has been archived but still.... exists. Chance someone can merge?
Quote from: JB93 on December 01, 2013, 01:55:19 AM
The 55. I've never understood the reasoning in making it a fully single decker route. Between Birmingham and Buckland End it's always rammed.
55 suspect to cut down on vandalism. In the past have tried it with most ex lea hall services with increased freq's.
94 had lynxes 94/94e (combined every 4mins at one point) - Branded Mercs
14
97 (Branded Omni links)
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 03, 2013, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: Sayeed_M on February 03, 2013, 03:02:42 PM
98 do need double deckers in the peak periods
The singles cope pretty well on 29/X64/98 from my observations and theres less vandalism.
Also, it has been stated before that deckers on the 98 are not very suitable. Due to all the trees and whatnot. I'd agree, the trees near Edgbaston and the Q.E. Hospital can hit off some of the buses (i.e. 76) never seen major damage though...