Has anyone noticed that years ago express/longer distance services were operated with coaches or at least coach seated buses eg the X5 shrewsbury was a coach, 112 burton to brum DP seated Olympians, X38 derby coaches, and particularly the horrendously long distance x64 ( now 64/164 for some daft reason) hanley-shrewsbury and the burton-leicester service ( again split into 2 routes operated by the same bus!, now they have standard vehicles on them. I mean 2hrs Leicester to Burton on a Dart or SB120 would equate to hell on earth! Slipping standards of comfort definately
I think now the routes are split in 2 people are not going to stay on that bus that what the companies seem to think
But theyre exactly the same routes Dave? Theyve just branded a few plaxton centro for the 64/164, thatd be fun travelling all that way in a gutless screaming heap lol
I am going on the compaines view there data must show people must not travel the full route even though its 2 numbers so feel they need not provide a good comfortable bus agree about the VDL buses even though they use similar engines to Daf trucks which are good
Quote from: Discodave on January 05, 2013, 05:38:23 PM
I am going on the compaines view there data must show people must not travel the full route even though its 2 numbers so feel they need not provide a good comfortable bus agree about the VDL buses even though they use similar engines to Daf trucks which are good
No it is just a way of getting around the law that any route over 50km needs to have a vehicle fitted with a tachograph and the driver on EEC rules not UK ones
Agree with you Bob, but sadly this is not unique to Arriva Midlands, the use of higher quality seats on longer routes seems to be dying out.
I can remember the DP Metrobuses on WMT 900, Coach seated Olympians on the Stratford to Coventry corridor by Midland Red (S), and Leopards on the the B'ham - Kidder - Ludlow route from MRW. And that is just 3 examples off the top of my head.
Quote from: Tony on January 05, 2013, 05:53:55 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 05, 2013, 05:38:23 PM
I am going on the compaines view there data must show people must not travel the full route even though its 2 numbers so feel they need not provide a good comfortable bus agree about the VDL buses even though they use similar engines to Daf trucks which are good
No it is just a way of getting around the law that any route over 50km needs to have a vehicle fitted with a tachograph and the driver on EEC rules not UK ones
I know about the law bit
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Quote from: bob on January 05, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Their one genuine attempt at a limited stop service you mean? Not really difficult! And as I have said in previous posts, those high backed seats on the Geminis are not especially comfortable anyway.
All operators are guilty in this area of giving comfort too little consideration. It is all about capacity and cost of the vehicle these days.
Quote from: andy on January 05, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: bob on January 05, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Their one genuine attempt at a limited stop service you mean? Not really difficult! And as I have said in previous posts, those high backed seats on the Geminis are not especially comfortable anyway.
All operators are guilty in this area of giving comfort too little consideration. It is all about capacity and cost of the vehicle these days.
I just about managed to cope with ex 2320 (P320 HOJ) Dart SLF for 2 hours on the old 112!
Awful standards
Quote from: andy on January 05, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: bob on January 05, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Their one genuine attempt at a limited stop service you mean? Not really difficult! And as I have said in previous posts, those high backed seats on the Geminis are not especially comfortable anyway.
That's a matter of opinion, with the exception of the Timesaver Metrobuses I find the 4680-6 the most comfortable seats in any bus
Quote from: Tony on January 06, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Quote from: andy on January 05, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: bob on January 05, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Their one genuine attempt at a limited stop service you mean? Not really difficult! And as I have said in previous posts, those high backed seats on the Geminis are not especially comfortable anyway.
That's a matter of opinion, with the exception of the Timesaver Metrobuses I find the 4680-6 the most comfortable seats in any bus
You said it yourself Tony, those Metrobus seats were probably the most comfortable of any bus I've travelled on, they were genuine dual purpose seats. But as we know, you can't cram as many of those into the bus as you can the plastic rubbish we get now so we will never get them again.
The Gemini seats are not padded enough to be genuine DP in my opinion and as ever they offer no extra legroom to the bus version, which defeats the object.
Quote from: andy on January 06, 2013, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: Tony on January 06, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Quote from: andy on January 05, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: bob on January 05, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Yea but at least nxwm try to put high backed seated vehicles on some limited stop services though
Their one genuine attempt at a limited stop service you mean? Not really difficult! And as I have said in previous posts, those high backed seats on the Geminis are not especially comfortable anyway.
The metrobus seats still had 43 upstairs, the same as a bus seated version, I do find the design of the seat in 4680-6 means my knees are not in the back of the seat in front, even though they only have one less seat upstairs less than a standard gemini. At least people with wide backsides have a seat to sit on in them as the back row is only 4, not 5 seats!
That's a matter of opinion, with the exception of the Timesaver Metrobuses I find the 4680-6 the most comfortable seats in any bus
You said it yourself Tony, those Metrobus seats were probably the most comfortable of any bus I've travelled on, they were genuine dual purpose seats. But as we know, you can't cram as many of those into the bus as you can the plastic rubbish we get now so we will never get them again.
The Gemini seats are not padded enough to be genuine DP in my opinion and as ever they offer no extra legroom to the bus version, which defeats the object.
Stagecoach Gold solos and enviro 300/400s have genuine DP seats i think
Quote from: bob on January 06, 2013, 04:04:19 PM
Stagecoach Gold solos and enviro 300/400s have genuine DP seats i think
Correct - and they are leather seats too. So have the (non-Gold) Cambridgeshire Busway vehicles.
I agree it's a pity that Dual Purpose seats are rare nowadays. Two possible reasons could be that (1) there are fewer long-distance bus passengers nowadays - the bus market has gone more local, and (2) longer routes may not be considered profitable enough to justify the investment in luxury seats.
Dual purpose vehicles are a creature of an era when bus companies had many long distance coach or express services. Bus shell DPs would duplicate full coaches at peaks such as summer time school holidays. These would work bus routes at other times.
The start of National Express 40 years ago was where the DP started to fall from favour with some exceptions. The end of the New Bus Grant killed off coaches built for occasional bus use. Then came deregulation in which for the first few years old coaches started to do bus routes until now where there is a form of "apartheid" where old coaches gravitate to private hire and schools rather than normal bus routes. But again there are exceptions still.
To explain what I mean, Arriva do not have summer coach serviceS from the Midlands to North Wales which Midland Red or PMT used to operate.
sconehead85