Yes you read that right first are spending money :o
Looks like they cant do the maths. or just wanted rid of Kidder and Redditch :-\
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 02:00:45 AM
Yes you read that right first are spending money :o
Looks like they cant do the maths. or just wanted rid of Kidder and Redditch :-\
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151
Not quite sure why you reckon First cannot do maths
Anyone that can realise £1.5m for the detritus that is what's left of KR & RH is the equivalent of Carol Vorderman in my eyes.
Well, in the IQ department at least!
Quote from: NEL111P (not 4006 ;-) ) on February 16, 2013, 09:23:56 AM
Anyone that can realise £1.5m for the detritus that is what's left of KR & RH is the equivalent of Carol Vorderman in my eyes.
Well, in the IQ department at least!
Dave, you will have just confused a lot of people!
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: NEL111P (not 4006 ;-) ) on February 16, 2013, 09:23:56 AM
Anyone that can realise £1.5m for the detritus that is what's left of KR & RH is the equivalent of Carol Vorderman in my eyes.
Well, in the IQ department at least!
Dave, you will have just confused a lot of people!
& that's difficult? ;)
Put it another way, if Rotala wanted RH, they could have seen off First for around 20% of that figure
at most. And yes, i did cost that figure last year.
KR is beyond my comprehension. Now, I love the place (well, the SVR & the Boars Head are great), but there's not enough revenue in the town to support competition. I doubt Rotala currently have the nous to ever make a penny there anyway, regardless of Whittle's' intentions.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on February 16, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: NEL111P (not 4006 ;-) ) on February 16, 2013, 09:23:56 AM
Anyone that can realise £1.5m for the detritus that is what's left of KR & RH is the equivalent of Carol Vorderman in my eyes.
Well, in the IQ department at least!
Dave, you will have just confused a lot of people!
& that's difficult? ;)
Put it another way, if Rotala wanted RH, they could have seen off First for around 20% of that figure at most. And yes, i did cost that figure last year.
KR is beyond my comprehension. Now, I love the place (well, the SVR & the Boars Head are great), but there's not enough revenue in the town to support competition. I doubt Rotala currently have the nous to ever make a penny there anyway, regardless of Whittle's' intentions.
there is for a company who's buses run to time at least (75%) of the time and do not keep missing buses out
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 02:00:45 AM
Yes you read that right first are spending money :o
Looks like they cant do the maths. or just wanted rid of Kidder and Redditch :-\
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151
Not quite sure why you reckon First cannot do maths
What i mean Tony is that the £80 Million they had to find has gone away they still need to find it, but they can spend £76 Million on new buses. Does that now make a bit sense.
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 02:00:45 AM
Yes you read that right first are spending money :o
Looks like they cant do the maths. or just wanted rid of Kidder and Redditch :-\
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151
Not quite sure why you reckon First cannot do maths
What i mean Tony is that the £80 Million they had to find has gone away they still need to find it, but they can spend £76 Million on new buses. Does that now make a bit sense.
Spending £76m on new buses doesn't cause a £76m hit on the accounts, buses are written down over their lives, dirst will have no problem finding that money and if they don't but new buses it will cost them more in maintenance/refurbs/lost passengers with their current fleet. One of the biggest cause of First's current problems is their lack of buying new buses
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: Tony on February 16, 2013, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: tank90 on February 16, 2013, 02:00:45 AM
Yes you read that right first are spending money :o
Looks like they cant do the maths. or just wanted rid of Kidder and Redditch :-\
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151
Not quite sure why you reckon First cannot do maths
What i mean Tony is that the £80 Million they had to find has gone away they still need to find it, but they can spend £76 Million on new buses. Does that now make a bit sense.
Spending £76m on new buses doesn't cause a £76m hit on the accounts, buses are written down over their lives, dirst will have no problem finding that money and if they don't but new buses it will cost them more in maintenance/refurbs/lost passengers with their current fleet. One of the biggest cause of First's current problems is their lack of buying new buses
And with only buying 464 new buses per year for the size of the First Group fleet it appears it will be an on-going problem for sometime to come
I reckon that figure allows for a 17 year vehicle replacement cycle. First still have over 300 Volvo Olympians to shift, as well as 50-odd STEP Dennis Darts and 25 Mercedes Varios. First have this irritating habit of hanging on to some geriatric buses, 20-odd Leyland Olympians, along with handfuls of Volvo Citybuses, Dennis Arrows, Dennis Lances, Volvo B10Ms and Optare Excel 62949. Not all are step entrance, but if First are to make the 2017 DDA deadlines there needs to be a priority made of shifting the oddments particularly.
There needs to be a huge injection of single deckers particularly in Bristol, Somerset and Avon areas.
sconehead85
Where are the B10Ms based? Still south yorkshire?
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 09:56:19 AM
Where are the B10Ms based? Still south yorkshire?
Only 3 B10M buses left in service on the January Fleetlist I have from First, all at Scotland East
27 Merc 709D or Varios, all in the South West or Scotland
43 Step entrance darts, Mostly in the South West including in Bristol
11 Step entrance Lances at FMR, Northampton and the one in Essex
There are still 276 Olympians in service and that fact alone will tell you how far £76million of new vehicles will go to updating their fleet.
And this fleet list is from after all the Olympic buses had been distributed
Are the Potteries the last Leyland examples in the fleet?
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 10:56:16 AM
Are the Potteries the last Leyland examples in the fleet?
30029 G753XRE; 30031 G755XRE; 30033 G757XRE; 30034 G758XRE; 30038 G762XRE at Potteries (Newcastle)
31732 L156UNS at Scotland East (Balfron)
34610 K610LAE at Essex (Basildon)
34615 K615LAE; 34616 K616LAE; 34619 K619LAE; 34628 K628LAE; 34629 K629LAE at FD&C (Plymouth)
39932 C814BYY; 39933 D183FYM; 39935 D235FYM; 39936 D158FYM; 39938 D238FYM; 39939 D251FYM
all open top at Chester, so transferred to Stagecoach
Wonder why PMT have clung on to their G reg so long? Apparently they can still often be found out in service, although in recent years First have been like Arriva cannock ie an aversion to deckers, although that looks as though its starting to change with them having a few Volvo deckers in
Quote from: Tony on February 17, 2013, 10:42:30 AM
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 09:56:19 AM
Where are the B10Ms based? Still south yorkshire?
Only 3 B10M buses left in service on the January Fleetlist I have from First, all at Scotland East
27 Merc 709D or Varios, all in the South West or Scotland
43 Step entrance darts, Mostly in the South West including in Bristol
11 Step entrance Lances at FMR, Northampton and the one in Essex
There are still 276 Olympians in service and that fact alone will tell you how far £76million of new vehicles will go to updating their fleet.
And this fleet list is from after all the Olympic buses had been distributed
7 of the lances will be going from FMR when diamond take over KR &RH , and think the remaining ones @ WR will not be long after that before they leave
Quote from: sconehead85 on February 17, 2013, 02:58:13 AM
I reckon that figure allows for a 17 year vehicle replacement cycle. First still have over 300 Volvo Olympians to shift, as well as 50-odd STEP Dennis Darts and 25 Mercedes Varios. First have this irritating habit of hanging on to some geriatric buses, 20-odd Leyland Olympians, along with handfuls of Volvo Citybuses, Dennis Arrows, Dennis Lances, Volvo B10Ms and Optare Excel 62949. Not all are step entrance, but if First are to make the 2017 DDA deadlines there needs to be a priority made of shifting the oddments particularly.
There needs to be a huge injection of single deckers particularly in Bristol, Somerset and Avon areas.
sconehead85
That's what I worked it out too as well, as not sure what First Groups fleet size currently is since the UK bus disposals. I was working on around 8000.
NX current investment levels at 130 new buses per year for a fleet of 1650 implies a working life of 12.7 years. For First Group to mimic that, they would need to be buying 630 new buses per year. If you breakdown the 1500 new buses First group are claiming to have purchased over the last 3 years including the latest 464, just under a third of those have gone in to the London fleets, whilst the provinces are only now starting to receive any new vehicles is quantity since the 200 Olympic double deckers have been cascaded
I dont think the Potteries have received any new buses since 2006, and even the latest purchases are crappy 06/07 plate Solos and 2003 darts transferred in. Pretty poor isnt it
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 03:04:47 PM
I dont think the Potteries have received any new buses since 2006, and even the latest purchases are crappy 06/07 plate Solos and 2003 darts transferred in. Pretty poor isnt it
There are quite a few First subsidiaries in the same boat....... which is why the Group is in such a mess that coupled with high fares
Quote from: Winston on February 17, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 03:04:47 PM
I dont think the Potteries have received any new buses since 2006, and even the latest purchases are crappy 06/07 plate Solos and 2003 darts transferred in. Pretty poor isnt it
There are quite a few First subsidiaries in the same boat....... which is why the Group is in such a mess that coupled with high fares
Yes, very noticable was Stagecoach's plan to get Wigan sorted out was to put in a large batch of new vehicles and reduce fares! Seems Mr Souter's team reckon the same thing
Is the Potteries operation profitable? I've always wondered why Arriva havent ever competed on the Stafford to Hanley route, the First 101 service operates every 20mins and takes around 1 hr 15 mins, if Arriva were to do a limited stop service itd be sure to be a hit
Quote from: Tony on February 17, 2013, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 17, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 03:04:47 PM
I dont think the Potteries have received any new buses since 2006, and even the latest purchases are crappy 06/07 plate Solos and 2003 darts transferred in. Pretty poor isnt it
There are quite a few First subsidiaries in the same boat....... which is why the Group is in such a mess that coupled with high fares
Yes, very noticable was Stagecoach's plan to get Wigan sorted out was to put in a large batch of new vehicles and reduce fares! Seems Mr Souter's team reckon the same thing
It appears to be First Group that are the only ones not to have cottoned on across the board yet, everyone else can see it.....
First have had increased passenger numbers in Sheffield with the introduction of newer cascaded double deckers from Leeds and by slashing fares.... haven't seen any reports following the Oldham fare reductions if it has had any positive effect on passenger numbers etc
Quote from: Winston on February 17, 2013, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: Tony on February 17, 2013, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: Winston on February 17, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 03:04:47 PM
I dont think the Potteries have received any new buses since 2006, and even the latest purchases are crappy 06/07 plate Solos and 2003 darts transferred in. Pretty poor isnt it
There are quite a few First subsidiaries in the same boat....... which is why the Group is in such a mess that coupled with high fares
Yes, very noticable was Stagecoach's plan to get Wigan sorted out was to put in a large batch of new vehicles and reduce fares! Seems Mr Souter's team reckon the same thing
It appears to be First Group that are the only ones not to have cottoned on across the board yet, everyone else can see it.....
First have had increased passenger numbers in Sheffield with the introduction of newer cascaded double deckers from Leeds and by slashing fares.... haven't seen any reports following the Oldham fare reductions if it has had any positive effect on passenger numbers etc
to be fare,most places in oldham havent got a choice of bus operater so it probs wont effect passenger numbers that much
Quote from: bob on February 17, 2013, 03:28:39 PM
Is the Potteries operation profitable? I've always wondered why Arriva havent ever competed on the Stafford to Hanley route, the First 101 service operates every 20mins and takes around 1 hr 15 mins, if Arriva were to do a limited stop service itd be sure to be a hit
Bakerbus X1 operates hourly (Mon-Fri) between Hanley and Stafford, taking 1 hr 5 mins, sometimes using Wright Gemini Hybrids. It started as a rail replacemernt service for Stone, Barlaston and Wedgwood Stations (connecting them with Stafford and Stoke), and the Staffs University section was added later I believe.
Tony - Ive no wish to query your First fleet list, as it has come from the operator themselves but its the double deck figures I have are at variance with yours. Very few step double deckers have passed to Rotala and Stagecoach but I have counted some 350 Volvo Olympians. My figures are taken from various sources, and not up to date by any means. Are there are a lot of double decks in reserve? Also on this websites fleetlists four Volvo Citybuses are still active and there are five Dennis Arrows still in the fleet AFAIK. The open-top Chester based Leyland Olympians have passed to Stagecoach but 2013 is their final season as London Dennis Tridents are being partly de-roofed for use there.
The figures for single deckers are not much different to mine, but many Volvo B10Ms are also classed as reserve too.
Its still interesting and valuable information and thanks anyway for it. Looks like Ive got more crossing out to do in my GB-BG First Datafile!
sconehead85
Quote from: sconehead85 on February 18, 2013, 01:05:47 AM
Tony - Ive no wish to query your First fleet list, as it has come from the operator themselves but its the double deck figures I have are at variance with yours. Very few step double deckers have passed to Rotala and Stagecoach but I have counted some 350 Volvo Olympians. My figures are taken from various sources, and not up to date by any means. Are there are a lot of double decks in reserve? Also on this websites fleetlists four Volvo Citybuses are still active and there are five Dennis Arrows still in the fleet AFAIK. The open-top Chester based Leyland Olympians have passed to Stagecoach but 2013 is their final season as London Dennis Tridents are being partly de-roofed for use there.
The figures for single deckers are not much different to mine, but many Volvo B10Ms are also classed as reserve too.
Its still interesting and valuable information and thanks anyway for it. Looks like Ive got more crossing out to do in my GB-BG First Datafile!
sconehead85
Yes the figures I quoted are those First Group list as 'in service' there are many more of those vehicle types in 'reserve' and as you say various other odd step entrance buses of other makes I didn't list. For instance if I select 'reserve' and 'unfit for service' on the fleetlists it produces an additional 107 Olympians
Thanks Tony- thats cleared it up!
sconehead85