Thought we needed a new topic for Social Travel.
Anyone seen them out on the 97 yet to see how loadings are doing initially?
Are all vehicles in the same livery as the one Steve posted a picture of in the Discount Travel Solutions thread?
Are buses roughly halfway betwen Discount Travel Solutions departures on the 97?
The only one I've seen (of any non-NX op) so far is X179(CTG), carrying fresh air on both occasions.
I would add that I've not gone out of my way to find them though.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on January 07, 2015, 02:49:17 PM
The only one I've seen (of any non-NX op) so far is X179(CTG), carrying fresh air on both occasions.
I would add that I've not gone out of my way to find them though.
Why does that not surprise me i.e pretty empty loadings!
It's odd that Discount/Social aren't striving to really grow, they're just using 3 buses or so on a fairly long route. What I don't get is why they don't concentrate on a less NX heavily bussed route. Buses will rarely be ahead of NX due to their high frequencies. With large gaps and a non clockface timetable, passengers aren't going to wait for them. I'd like to see them focus on one corridor, like Sunny, and build up a presence with high frequencies offering real competition as it would seem pretty difficult otherwise, as the attempts on the 63, 29, 966 have all shown.
I've said it before & i'll probably have to say it again but...
There IS space for a 2nd op on the 97 BUT it has to be done & MAINTAINED properly. Central Connect came closest to doing so, possibly accidentally, with the orange branded Darts. It was a shame when all the effort wasn't maintained.
Piddling around with anonymous tat is NOT the way to make money here.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on January 07, 2015, 04:20:31 PM
I've said it before & i'll probably have to say it again but...
There IS space for a 2nd op on the 97 BUT it has to be done & MAINTAINED properly. Central Connect came closest to doing so, possibly accidentally, with the orange branded Darts. It was a shame when all the effort wasn't maintained.
Piddling around with anonymous tat is NOT the way to make money here.
I'd argue Pete's Travel and early GWM came pretty close as well, with a flat 10 min frequency at one point and Sunday buses. The rest I completely agree with.
Social Travel don't start until next Monday and yes all 3 buses are in the same livery with the mpd fresh out of the paint shop.
It has been a hard couple of days for DTS with heavy competition from the 97 drivers plus the park street fire causing disruption to all 97 buses unfortunately causing grouping around DTS departures. Despite this the cash plus concessionary figures are far superior to the 966 29 or 63 & only slightly behind my target figures for the first week.
I won't go into the reasons why the 97 was chosen & it has nothing to do with my history with the service, but the plan is to grow the frequencies and develop the routes for both operators over time "if it proves successful" including some ideas to expand the route to different destinations.
I was the one who originally had the idea to expand the 97 to the airport about 10 years ago with Bharat although they subsequently had problems with the directors falling foul to HMRC. Plus the old serverse travel route that extended to Tamworth, so there are possibilities and I already have a timetable in draft.
The DTS 87 will start on Sunday plus remember Social Travels first day will be on Sunday on the 72 which should help relieve the loads on the 71 Sunday service as the buses struggled with the loads last Sunday (Ok partly due to 102 a lower capacity bus wrongly assigned to the route).
Get your cameras ready though as I think the Social Travel livery is quite striking & very different to any other wm operator.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Social Travel don't start until next Monday and yes all 3 buses are in the same livery with the mpd fresh out of the paint shop.
It has been a hard couple of days for DTS with heavy competition from the 97 drivers plus the park street fire causing disruption to all 97 buses unfortunately causing grouping around DTS departures. Despite this the cash plus concessionary figures are far superior to the 966 29 or 63 & only slightly behind my target figures for the first week.
I won't go into the reasons why the 97 was chosen & it has nothing to do with my history with the service, but the plan is to grow the frequencies and develop the routes for both operators over time "if it proves successful" including some ideas to expand the route to different destinations.
I was the one who originally had the idea to expand the 97 to the airport about 10 years ago with Bharat although they subsequently had problems with the directors falling foul to HMRC. Plus the old serverse travel route that extended to Tamworth, so there are possibilities and I already have a timetable in draft.
The DTS 87 will start on Sunday plus remember Social Travels first day will be on Sunday on the 72 which should help relieve the loads on the 71 Sunday service as the buses struggled with the loads last Sunday (Ok partly due to 102 a lower capacity bus wrongly assigned to the route).
Get your cameras ready though as I think the Social Travel livery is quite striking & very different to any other wm operator.
I agree the livery looks good, based on the photo you posted, the layout looks a bit like the old Northumbria livery. It's a bit less drab and boring than the DTS livery though at least with all 3 companies buses are in a livery, which is more than can be said of some operators.
I'm glad to hear the 97 is doing ok and best of luck with growing the service. I only wonder if launching the service with a regular clockface timetable and more regular timetable to start with would create a bigger impact and build presence better than building up gradually? Almost certainly more risky but maybe it's harder to assess a route's potential with 3 buses than it is with a bigger fleet on there?
You also have to consider that if we hit the 97 hard to start with then that would really p $#k NXWM off and they would most likely retaliate hard & we don't want that especially when we want to develop something new in the long term.
We really don't want a war with NXWM for the 97 we just wish to coexist for a while.
Might sound boring for those wanting a bus war but we've got the Solihull chelmsley corridor for that lol.
Yes the front styling was taken from the northumbria livery & the purple was chosen because to my knowledge no one has used that colour yet in the west midlands & we wanted an identity that was purely ours in the same way as stelios chose orange for easyJet.
So as you can see Social Travel is being started with a long term future plan already in place, something few others do when they start running buses. The plan is comprehensive and goes upto year 20 with quite a conservative start but just watch this space.
The original plan was to start with 3 Trident, but we toned it down a bit for long term longevity of the company.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 07:37:17 PM
You also have to consider that if we hit the 97 hard to start with then that would really p $#k NXWM off and they would most likely retaliate hard & we don't want that especially when we want to develop something new in the long term.
We really don't want a war with NXWM for the 97 we just wish to coexist for a while.
Might sound boring for those wanting a bus war but we've got the Solihull chelmsley corridor for that lol.
Yes the front styling was taken from the northumbria livery & the purple was chosen because to my knowledge no one has used that colour yet in the west midlands & we wanted an identity that was purely ours in the same way as stelios chose orange for easyJet.
So as you can see Social Travel is being started with a long term future plan already in place, something few others do when they start running buses. The plan is comprehensive and goes upto year 20 with quite a conservative start but just watch this space.
The original plan was to start with 3 Trident, but we toned it down a bit for long term longevity of the company.
I agree NX would be more likely to retaliate with a greater frequency or discounted fares, as indeed they've done on the 301/2.
I think it's a nice looking livery and as you say Purple hasn't really been used much in the West Midlands and gives the company it's own identity.
It would be nice to see greater competition on Birmingham area routes, like the 97, 17, 87, 120, 74 that are routes operators have targeted in the past and stayed on longer than corridors like the 7/51 etc.
We have the figures for the 87 & the 120 from previous experience with sunny travel. The 120 is not good and while the 87 is ok there is not much options for developing that route beyond head to head competition.
We had the figures from the 74 when we were looking at buying Joes Travel & their figures were abysmal.
The 17 & 51 can be developed into something different but I guess you'll just have to wait & see. It'll probably be Social travel that does something with the 51 but I haven't quite decided that yet.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 07:53:02 PM
We have the figures for the 87 & the 120 from previous experience with sunny travel. The 120 is not good and while the 87 is ok there is not much options for developing that route beyond head to head competition.
We had the figures from the 74 when we were looking at buying Joes Travel & their figures were abysmal.
The 17 & 51 can be developed into something different but I guess you'll just have to wait & see. It'll probably be Social travel that does something with the 51 but I haven't quite decided that yet.
I'm surprised about the 120, as the lower NX frequency could mean buses slotted in between meaning less direct head to head competition.
The concentration of buses out to Walsall is pretty strong, although loadings are also pretty strong, any competition on there has quickly dissolved.
I imagine the Joe's Travel figures were based on a pretty poor level of service delivery, reliability etc, and so distorted by that.
Interestingly, I'd bet GRS's figures on the 11A/C are far lower than those being achieved on the 16, due to them building up a presence on there they've failed to get on the 16.
Yes the service delivery of Joes on the 74 would effect their figures but not by the amount we're talking about since they're gone now I don't see any harm in saying they were averaging £35 per day & one of their drivers suggested it was impossible to get some people to pay the fare, they would just walk straight on & sit down.
The 120 used to be Ok strangely when diamond nx & sunny all competed but the the figures just started to go south even when diamond pulled off things didn't get much better.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Social Travel don't start until next Monday and yes all 3 buses are in the same livery with the mpd fresh out of the paint shop.
It has been a hard couple of days for DTS with heavy competition from the 97 drivers plus the park street fire causing disruption to all 97 buses unfortunately causing grouping around DTS departures. Despite this the cash plus concessionary figures are far superior to the 966 29 or 63 & only slightly behind my target figures for the first week.
I won't go into the reasons why the 97 was chosen & it has nothing to do with my history with the service, but the plan is to grow the frequencies and develop the routes for both operators over time "if it proves successful" including some ideas to expand the route to different destinations.
I was the one who originally had the idea to expand the 97 to the airport about 10 years ago with Bharat although they subsequently had problems with the directors falling foul to HMRC. Plus the old serverse travel route that extended to Tamworth, so there are possibilities and I already have a timetable in draft.
The DTS 87 will start on Sunday plus remember Social Travels first day will be on Sunday on the 72 which should help relieve the loads on the 71 Sunday service as the buses struggled with the loads last Sunday (Ok partly due to 102 a lower capacity bus wrongly assigned to the route).
Get your cameras ready though as I think the Social Travel livery is quite striking & very different to any other wm operator.
Good to hear that Social Travel will be looking into developing routes, rather than just piggy-backing onto existing routes in the hope of making some money.
Would you consider looking at other routes in the future, just as a suggestion maybe the 6 (Birmingham to Solihull)? I recall AM-PM seemed to do okay on there for a period, people seemed keen on a new operator with a distinctive livery at the time. NXWM still seem to be struggling with loads at times, even with more double-decks on there, maybe a bit of competition could be healthy? Nothing worse than waiting ages for a bus, then a full one just passes you by! I'm surprised that someone else hasn't considered giving that route another go, to be honest, even if it didn't run the full route but only ran to Shirley.
Quote from: Stu on January 07, 2015, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Social Travel don't start until next Monday and yes all 3 buses are in the same livery with the mpd fresh out of the paint shop.
It has been a hard couple of days for DTS with heavy competition from the 97 drivers plus the park street fire causing disruption to all 97 buses unfortunately causing grouping around DTS departures. Despite this the cash plus concessionary figures are far superior to the 966 29 or 63 & only slightly behind my target figures for the first week.
I won't go into the reasons why the 97 was chosen & it has nothing to do with my history with the service, but the plan is to grow the frequencies and develop the routes for both operators over time "if it proves successful" including some ideas to expand the route to different destinations.
I was the one who originally had the idea to expand the 97 to the airport about 10 years ago with Bharat although they subsequently had problems with the directors falling foul to HMRC. Plus the old serverse travel route that extended to Tamworth, so there are possibilities and I already have a timetable in draft.
The DTS 87 will start on Sunday plus remember Social Travels first day will be on Sunday on the 72 which should help relieve the loads on the 71 Sunday service as the buses struggled with the loads last Sunday (Ok partly due to 102 a lower capacity bus wrongly assigned to the route).
Get your cameras ready though as I think the Social Travel livery is quite striking & very different to any other wm operator.
Good to hear that Social Travel will be looking into developing routes, rather than just piggy-backing onto existing routes in the hope of making some money.
Would you consider looking at other routes in the future, just as a suggestion maybe the 6 (Birmingham to Solihull)? I recall AM-PM seemed to do okay on there for a period, people seemed keen on a new operator with a distinctive livery at the time. NXWM still seem to be struggling with loads at times, even with more double-decks on there, maybe a bit of competition could be healthy? Nothing worse than waiting ages for a bus, then a full one just passes you by! I'm surprised that someone else hasn't considered giving that route another go, to be honest, even if it didn't run the full route but only ran to Shirley.
That was an early BCC route wasn't it?
Quote from: Steveminor on January 07, 2015, 08:17:43 PM
Yes the service delivery of Joes on the 74 would effect their figures but not by the amount we're talking about since they're gone now I don't see any harm in saying they were averaging £35 per day & one of their drivers suggested it was impossible to get some people to pay the fare, they would just walk straight on & sit down.
The 120 used to be Ok strangely when diamond nx & sunny all competed but the the figures just started to go south even when diamond pulled off things didn't get much better.
That is pretty dreadful!! I don't imagine the 11A/C did much better. Well, it can't have done, otherwise they'd potentially still be around.
Perhaps with Diamond on there as well people got used to seeing non NX buses and paying cash/buying returns but once the main source of competition left, reverted to travelcards? Or maybe it's an example of where competition in terms of increased frequency actually generated and improved overall ridership?
Well the figures were going down while diamond were on there, probably one of the reasons they came off.
To answer the question regarding the 6 well many routes were considered both within & outside the west midlands as I said I won't go into the reasons for obvious reasons but the 97 was chosen for weekday operations.
The 72 Sunday should be interesting being half way between nx 72.
When ampm ran a 15 min frequency on a Sunday it dramatically increased ridership & there is nothing to suggest that won't happen again.
here are photos of the fleet of social travel S309shb https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanjack/16245838341/ S301SHB https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanjack/16061863517/ X183CTG https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanjack/16247730705/
What a peculiar livery! Why on earth isn't the stripe continued of the screen wash panel for starters
That's where the company name is intended to go
I like it, something original and eye catching
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on January 10, 2015, 07:30:47 PM
What a peculiar livery! Why on earth isn't the stripe continued of the screen wash panel for starters
another new firm with livery unlike another firm in multi coloured livery's
Bit of weird livery. Would've been preferable for the colours to be opposite, purple instead of block of white and Social Travel logo in white combined with the white pyramid on the drivers corner for added compliments and such. However said that, it probably would've cost more that way.
I suppose the only thing in this livery's favour is that the vehicles have been re-painted. it does rather look as though they have needed to replace the screen wash panel without being bothered to add the livery to it.
From what I can see no fleet names on the vehicle. Are they hidden out of view or non-existent?
The fleet name will be added to the front wash panel that's why it's been painted plain white otherwise it would have meant a two tone fleet name which would have looked odd.
I get what was said about the livery looking better the other way around but when I photoshopped it that way round it looked too dull & we wanted something bright & standoutish.
From the comments received I think we achieved the goal of standing out from the crowd. It's very marmite you either like it or hate it but either way, you know who's bus it is.
@Steveminor - Urm... But not learnt from NX's mistake about the white showing the dirt? I trust your buses be washed a minimum twice a day. Haha
It's the best way to check how much work the driver has done, measure the dirt lol
Quote from: Steveminor on January 12, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
It's the best way to check how much work the driver has done, measure the dirt lol
Hahaha I'll let you off Steven haha
Quote from: Liverpool Street on January 12, 2015, 09:08:28 PM
Quote from: Steveminor on January 12, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
It's the best way to check how much work the driver has done, measure the dirt lol
Hahaha I'll let you off Steven haha
And paint the back dark to hide oil leaks that always spray up the rear
Quote from: Tony on January 12, 2015, 09:11:52 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on January 12, 2015, 09:08:28 PM
Quote from: Steveminor on January 12, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
It's the best way to check how much work the driver has done, measure the dirt lol
Hahaha I'll let you off Steven haha
And paint the back dark to hide oil leaks that always spray up the rear
A gun metal swoop from the top of the back down it would look good I think and hide any leaks to a point.
I remember city buslines used to paint the back of their nationals with oil to hide the leaks.
Hang on a minute ???
;D
Actually, saw one of them in the flesh yesterday evening about 18:00 going past the Law Courts, didn't look too bad. Only saw the drivers side though, is the passenger side just plain white? Surely a similar pyramid thing in the opposite back corner would make sense? And the back itself did seem to be painted that same purple, dunno whether that was meant to be or not
Does Birmingham SQP not affect this operator?
Quote from: 646 on January 24, 2015, 06:24:36 PM
Does Birmingham SQP not affect this operator?
Not frequent enough
I see they are using the number '97P' now
is the ex Cardiff bus X183CTG now painted in to social travel livery yet
Sampled the DTS and Social 97 yesterday. Dead on time, clean vehicles, friendly drivers, what more can you say
Quote from: Ashley on January 29, 2015, 04:34:18 PM
Sampled the DTS and Social 97 yesterday. Dead on time, clean vehicles, friendly drivers, what more can you say
Good news! I've seen photos of their smart looking buses and proper destination displays and I agree they look impressive. The Social livery is far better than the DTS one though imo...
Quote from: Ashley on January 29, 2015, 04:34:18 PM
Sampled the DTS and Social 97 yesterday. Dead on time, clean vehicles, friendly drivers, what more can you say
Obviously you didn't catch the one I saw driving over the pavement on James Watt Queensway forcing pedestrians to take cover reversing into oncoming traffic on a busy dual carriageway (S929PDD). Birmingham Council Citywatch have the video of it
That will go nicely with the video of a nx 97 spending nearly 10 mins on the city stand before pulling straight out in front of s301 without indicating nearly causing an accident.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 29, 2015, 06:30:00 PM
That will go nicely with the video of a nx 97 spending nearly 10 mins on the city stand before pulling straight out in front of s301 without indicating nearly causing an accident.
Both operators make mistakes, it's part of life, there's not one operator out there that hasn't made mistakes.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 29, 2015, 06:30:00 PM
That will go nicely with the video of a nx 97 spending nearly 10 mins on the city stand before pulling straight out in front of s301 without indicating nearly causing an accident.
Not quite, The S929PDD wasn't a mistake, it was a deliberate act. He was doing a U-turn in an entrance to a car park which he shouldn't have been doing in the first place, then drove along a footway forcing pedestrians to run out of the way, then reversed off the pavement into the out of city carriageway without a banksman forcing cars to swerve. Two criminal offences there.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 29, 2015, 06:30:00 PM
That will go nicely with the video of a nx 97 spending nearly 10 mins on the city stand before pulling straight out in front of s301 without indicating nearly causing an accident.
According to the Birmingham SQPS the maximum legal wait time on stop MS8 (97) is 10 minutes
https://www.centro.org.uk/media/20830/SQPS_Full_Document_July2013.pdf
Social travel is a unusual name tho...makes me think of pramfaces and chavs ahahahaha. If you run to Castle Vile you could call it anti social travel lol
But if the slots booked are 3 mins apart & the frequency is every 4 mins how can a bus have a 10 min drop back & legally meet its slot booking. It can't be using the double stand as social travel & discount travel use the second stand for ms8
That's that For the 97
QuotePD1125565/2 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Wood, Pine Square and City Centre, Moor Street Queensway given service number 97 effective from 29-Mar-2015.
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 02:37:09 PM
That's that For the 97
QuotePD1125565/2 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Wood, Pine Square and City Centre, Moor Street Queensway given service number 97 effective from 29-Mar-2015.
That was quick...
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 02:37:09 PM
That's that For the 97
QuotePD1125565/2 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Wood, Pine Square and City Centre, Moor Street Queensway given service number 97 effective from 29-Mar-2015.
I wonder who they will be
running rings around next!
My money is on either the 11,17,51,71,966 or a west bromwich area route
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 03:05:59 PM
My money is on either the 11,17,51,71,966 or a west bromwich area route
The clue is in my post!
Ok then. Well diamond seems the most obvious choice if they're not taking on NXWM so I'd say 002, redditch, Kidderminster or a Solihull signature service
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 03:05:59 PM
My money is on either the 11,17,51,71,966 or a west bromwich area route
You'd be giving your money away by putting it on the 966, DTS quickly pulled off that due to insufficient loadings
Quote from: Tony on February 05, 2015, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 02:37:09 PM
That's that For the 97
QuotePD1125565/2 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Wood, Pine Square and City Centre, Moor Street Queensway given service number 97 effective from 29-Mar-2015.
I wonder who they will be running rings around next!
Hinting the Outer Circle?
Quote from: Tony on February 05, 2015, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 05, 2015, 02:37:09 PM
That's that For the 97
QuotePD1125565/2 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Wood, Pine Square and City Centre, Moor Street Queensway given service number 97 effective from 29-Mar-2015.
I wonder who they will be running rings around next!
Inner or outer Circle?
I'm going to say Diamond Redditch on the 57 and 58. If you have enough buses to hand and the right timetable and run to it you could make a packet.
Just saying as I live in the town and read the Advertiser this week...... Let me say this people aren't happy with Diamond on the 57/58.
Just to be different I'll go for the 360 in Cov, as unilikely as it is.
I think they may do the 8, as the 11 has had many operators on and let's be honest they can't compete with the high amount of frequency, as they don't have many buses
Someone's got it right but I'm not saying who.
97 with a 4 min frequency was a little too much enough cash but you need a combination of cash and concessionary passes & there aren't enough of them to go around unless you play dirty and don't stick to the timetable which is something we don't want to do.
Quote from: Steveminor on February 05, 2015, 07:19:20 PM
Someone's got it right but I'm not saying who.
97 with a 4 min frequency was a little too much enough cash but you need a combination of cash and concessionary passes & there aren't enough of them to go around unless you play dirty and don't stick to the timetable which is something we don't want to do.
I think the 8A/C would be an interesting move; it's not as frequent (or long!) as the 11A/C so there is potential for another operator to jump in and fill in the gaps, especially if they strategically only run parts of the route less susceptible to delays, rather than running the full circular route. ;)
Will be interesting if they go on the 11, wonder if they will run through Bearwood? :) :)
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 07, 2015, 08:22:20 PM
Will be interesting if they go on the 11, wonder if they will run through Bearwood? :) :)
In my opinion the 11 is a no go. It's too long and requires lots of buses to compete
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned running the 360?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 07, 2015, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 07, 2015, 08:22:20 PM
Will be interesting if they go on the 11, wonder if they will run through Bearwood? :) :)
In my opinion the 11 is a no go. It's too long and requires lots of buses to compete
Brand new Euro 6 buses, wouldn't want to upset Sandwell Council would they!!
Quote from: tank90 on February 05, 2015, 05:47:56 PM
I'm going to say Diamond Redditch on the 57 and 58. If you have enough buses to hand and the right timetable and run to it you could make a packet.
Just saying as I live in the town and read the Advertiser this week...... Let me say this people aren't happy with Diamond on the 57/58.
Not quite, the only way to win custom there (like the previous competition with First and Diamond) is to have stupidly cheap fares - it was £1 for a day ticket! The profit margin on that is minimal if even possible. It would be ironic though for Diamond to have competition after spending so many years running on other operator's routes!
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 07, 2015, 08:26:08 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned running the 360?
Quote from: trident4370 on February 05, 2015, 06:48:17 PM
Just to be different I'll go for the 360 in Cov, as unilikely as it is.
Check...
I actually hope for the 8. But shall wait and see.
@Kevin @Stuharris 6360 fair enough. I'll book my eye test now then
If it is the 11, any company that takes it on would have to "flood" the route with enough buses to make a difference and to make it worthwhile for passengers to hang around to catch your bus. Also on a route like the 11, a lot of commuters will have NE bus passes, so you would have to provide a service that would make someone switch to an NBus.
Even when Diamond several years ago tried to compete on the 9 with NE, they struggled because they couldn't (or didn't want to) provide the same service frequency.
Since the 360 is a subsidised route you can cut that from the list. 8)
Has the X reg now been painted into social
Livery and is it in service or when will
It be in service
I didn't realise the 72 was running via the Radlelys; assumed it went via Garrets Green. Unless the driver didn't know the route!
New driver took wrong turn
r social travel still based over the road from sunny travel or have they moved
Still same location
It's the 11C then!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 17, 2015, 06:54:45 PM
It's the 11C then!
Yes! a bus company that only runs one way. A registration with no other possible purpose that to milk another operator. If you can catch a bus one way but not home it is not going to encourage a single extra passenger onto the buses. Yes I know you can complete the circuit to get home, but if you are going half way round it is quicker to go across City.
Quote from: Tony on February 17, 2015, 07:01:35 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 17, 2015, 06:54:45 PM
It's the 11C then!
Yes! a bus company that only runs one way. A registration with no other possible purpose that to milk another operator. If you can catch a bus one way but not home it is not going to encourage a single extra passenger onto the buses. Yes I know you can complete the circuit to get home, but if you are going half way round it is quicker to go across City.
True
@Tony and only 8 journeys anyway throughout the day, to be honest seems plain daft to me. See how long this registration lasts.
So your forgetting the work that's being done on Sundays running a 15 min service on 72 with nxwm.
The 97 would have been developed into more had nxwm not decided to hold buses in city for upto 10 mins to stop us getting passengers from brum.
So what if we're running head to head on the 11 not adding more passenger benefit.
At the end of the day a business needs to make money in order to survive & expand.
Yes we could run a completely new service but at this early stage in the companies history where will all the money to develop it come from?
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 08:09:59 PM
So your forgetting the work that's being done on Sundays running a 15 min service on 72 with nxwm.
The 97 would have been developed into more had nxwm not decided to hold buses in city for upto 10 mins to stop us getting passengers from brum.
So what if we're running head to head on the 11 not adding more passenger benefit.
At the end of the day a business needs to make money in order to survive & expand.
Yes we could run a completely new service but at this early stage in the companies history where will all the money to develop it come from?
Surely if you don't add passenger benefit, there is no point in running the service.
And why not develop a brand new service, if you do research and offer a decent reliable service, you stand a chance of it taking off.
Don't you think that just copying other operators services will only lead to failure!
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 08:09:59 PM
So your forgetting the work that's being done on Sundays running a 15 min service on 72 with nxwm.
The 97 would have been developed into more had nxwm not decided to hold buses in city for upto 10 mins to stop us getting passengers from brum.
So what if we're running head to head on the 11 not adding more passenger benefit.
At the end of the day a business needs to make money in order to survive & expand.
Yes we could run a completely new service but at this early stage in the companies history where will all the money to develop it come from?
No, a small company can compete directly at the start to grow a business and at the same time increase total passenger numbers by getting their own loyal customers, remember North Birmingham Busways? They grew total passenger trade on routes by competing directly from a standing start.
All things like your registration on the 11C do is give politicians more reasons to want to bring in franchising to remove operators like Social who basically are adding to congestion & pollution without bringing a single benefit to the city!
The 11C, honestly!!
Steve, I thought that you were heavily involved in AMPM Travel (although I may be wrong) who ran on 11A / 11C. I used to love riding AMPM's Olympians around the 11 route they were cracking buses. From my observations they had shorter running times than NXWM and spent most of their time catching up with NXWM buses and carried very few passengers. I seem to remember they went from driver's relieving by the cemetery between Acocks Green and the Swan to drivers taking breaks with their buses meaning a high number of short journeys. Joe's Travel and now GRS Travel ran limited journeys and carried very few passengers from what I've seen.
Good luck but I can't see it lasting or been successful.
I've only one word to describe the move onto the 11C - Suicidal!
Why would you register to go on a route when it's had so many failures? Absolute madness. Good luck with carrying round empty buses. I reckon it will last 4 months. Or am I being too ambitious?
Tony one question if north bham bus ways was such a success where are they now? Yes true it started off well till nx hit them back severely cutting there cash intake. Other routes that have been started by smaller operators have suddenly found nx competing against them. Back in petes days I started several brand new routes only to find once they had built up nx deciding we'll have a go at that. So why not run on an established route for a while to build up a healthy bank balance ready to start something new?
Ampm originally ran the 11 for in between TGB school contracts & when those finished looking at figures a decision was taken to run through the day.
Driver shortages inevitably led to missed reliefs & having to unload passengers so that's why the relief system was taken out & eventually buses were needed for the private hire side which was growing requiring more buses.
Current loadings of nxwm have been cross checked against ampm historic figures plus those from joes travel & a healthy profit can be made from the route.
Yes ampm's & joes buses didn't look overly busy but (& I can personally verify in ampm's case) the end of day figures are what matters not how busy the bus looks.
Good luck with the 11, I hope you can make it work! (competing with the battered old buses that GRS and NX operate!)
I still think the 8A/C would have been a good route to have better success on, maybe if only part of the route was focused on. Biggest complaint on that route is unreliability, with only operator NXWM offering a 15min frequency, but having to traverse the whole circle and get their buses caught up frequently in traffic hold-ups, there must be an opportunity somewhere for a smaller operator to sneak in and operate the parts of the route that are potentially more profitable, even if it means only running short journeys and turning around at convenient spots (say Sparkbrook/Highgate to Aston or Ladywood, via Nechells and Saltley, avoiding the Inner Ring Road sections). Cash-paying customers might be more inclined to get on a non-NX bus if it turns up first.
Just my thoughts.
@Steveminor What are Social Travel doing to attract customers, why should i catch one of your buses on the 11C instead of an NE or GRS one? I would have said cheap day returns, but with so few journeys and only running in one direction that is not an option. Is the route going to be advertised?
Are the 8 journeys evenly spaced out? If not and are only when the schools come out etc then the argument for 'milking' grows and grows. Why not go try against another operator too, maybe one with a penchant for running darts as well?
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
Tony one question if north bham bus ways was such a success where are they now? Yes true it started off well till nx hit them back severely cutting there cash intake. Other routes that have been started by smaller operators have suddenly found nx competing against them. Back in petes days I started several brand new routes only to find once they had built up nx deciding we'll have a go at that. So why not run on an established route for a while to build up a healthy bank balance ready to start something new?
North Birmingham Buses was sold to Central Connect and made it's directors a retirement fund. It only sold out when a couple wanted to retire. So yes if you retire and sell your company to give yourself a nice lump sum in retirement, I would call that a success.
Now name one success in the companies you have been involved in. Yes I know there have been different reasons other than financial why some have finished
Quote from: j789 on February 17, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
Why not go try against another operator too, maybe one with a penchant for running darts as well?
And what's the route difference between this route and the GRS runs (an operator with a penchant for running darts)?
I meant diamond but still works I guess!
I'm surprised Social Travel havent tried to run on this route
http://diamondbuses.com/cmsUploads/route/files/DIA_146_06072014-3.pdf
Well tony there was petes travel who sold to go ahead for a tidy sum. So that's on success I guess. I helped start clarinets in bus operations, or are you going to argue they aren't successful.
Plus I was joint owner in 2 business's in another area which provided me with a healthy sum for my house.
Let's just say I don't have a mortgage & still in my 30s or is that not a success.
The 11 is an ends to a means it isn't about trying to run another operator off the road but about earning money to enable the company to grow & develop I will make no excuse for that. I would say the buses are in better condition than at least one of our competitors & drivers are friendly & helpful ( if not let me know please).
Let's not forget if nx hadn't been greedy wanting 100% of the 97 revenue then we had planned to introduce a 97 extension by the end of the year. But I guess that we will just have to wait
Looked at that route mate but figures don't add up
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 09:30:16 PM
Well tony there was petes travel who sold to go ahead for a tidy sum. So that's on success I guess. I helped start clarinets in bus operations, or are you going to argue they aren't successful.
Plus I was joint owner in 2 business's in another area which provided me with a healthy sum for my house.
Let's just say I don't have a mortgage & still in my 30s or is that not a success.
The 11 is an ends to a means it isn't about trying to run another operator off the road but about earning money to enable the company to grow & develop I will make no excuse for that. I would say the buses are in better condition than at least one of our competitors & drivers are friendly & helpful ( if not let me know please).
Let's not forget if nx hadn't been greedy wanting 100% of the 97 revenue then we had planned to introduce a 97 extension by the end of the year. But I guess that we will just have to wait
Pete's Travel - yes. How much did Mr Kevin Jones end up with from the money Go-ahead paid for the company when he fled the country?
I think it was less than the North Birmingham Directors ended up with.
Your two operators ouside the West Midlands?
One had it's license revoked by the TC
The other driven out by First and had vehicles reposessed
Good luck
@SteveminorIf you can run an 11C around 8am through Hall Green you have a guaranteed passenger ;) - 11C is full at that time and it's slightly annoying at times to bomb up the Stratford Road on the 6 only to be stuck waiting for an NX 11.
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 17, 2015, 09:20:27 PM
I'm surprised Social Travel havent tried to run on this route
http://diamondbuses.com/cmsUploads/route/files/DIA_146_06072014-3.pdf
Any one taking on the 146 against the main operator would have to offer more than what Diamond offer. I say this as Diamond have improved the 146 since last summer, but if they had left it how First had I'd agree. Also with the 146 you need a grounding on the Redditch routes in the Town same for the 143/247 as Reddoians well look to travel on a short ish route first if they don't know the name or the brand. I say this as Johnsons is a well known local brand.
On the one hand, Social Travel is perfectly entitled to operate commercial services as it sees fit.
On the other, NX West Midlands is perfectly entitled to protect its revenue when another operator decides to compete on a route, as long as it does not do so in a predatory manner.
I am just an enthusiast, but it seems to me that NXWM leaves fewer opening nowadays for possible competitors to get a proper foothold than a few years ago. The likes of North Birmingham Busways and Claribels managed to build up custom very well, but I'm not sure that they would succeed if they started today.
As far as Social Travel and the 11C is concerned, the market will decide. Normally with buses, the general rule seems to be that passengers will often simply catch the first bus that turns up. I guess it will probably come down to whether passengers are comfortable with a new operator on the route and, of course, whether the timetable gets buses to the busiest bus stops at the busiest times.
I'm not going to get into an argument tony but suffice it to say if my out of area operations weren't successful well how do I not have a mortgage now.
For both companies it was quite profitable to cease operating even though it ended up with licence revocation. .
As for predatory competition well nx are always guilty of that or do you call 10 97s in a row normal operation. Or rotala on the 37 finding buses waiting at Acocks green on inspectors orders waiting for the rotala bus before pulling out in front.
or offering special discount returns that miraculously dissappear a few months after rotala has withdrawn or a Sunday 72 purposely running 12 mins late so that it can be directly in front of an operator that is purposely trying to avoid having a head to head competition on the route by timing half way in between.
No that's not predatory at all.
Tony you act as if nxwm is an innocent party & other companies are to blame for everything well it just ain't so.
Oh so DTS drivers driving like maniacs and/or snails, overtaking and/or blocking NXWM is ok?
Or Sunny Travel buses that cut up Clariabels at Marston Green?
Or Social Travel drivers driving at snails pace, deliberatly trying to block the NXWM 97 getting along the road?
Oh. I forgot. They are saints!
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
or offering special discount returns that miraculously dissappear a few months after rotala has withdrawn
Just wanted to point out that NX still do the discount return tickets on the 37. :)
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
I'm not going to get into an argument tony but suffice it to say if my out of area operations weren't successful well how do I not have a mortgage now.
That's not proof of anything. I live in a £200,000 house without a mortgage as well
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
For both companies it was quite profitable to cease operating even though it ended up with licence revocation. .
Two things that baffled me over this. You always claimed First paid you to pull out of the area, yet never declared the payment which is a bit naughty of a FTSE 250 company and also were First that dumb that they didn't put a 'don't start again clause' in? as you alone applied for a new license which wasn't proceded with after the partnership finished and the license was revoked
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
As for predatory competition well nx are always guilty of that or do you call 10 97s in a row normal operation.
If you think NX have done anything at all to combat Social/DTS on the 97 you really are misguided. Not one extra running, not one short running not one instruction to a driver to run on anything other than his scheduled times. I am not saying an odd driver hasn't taken it into his own hands to do something though
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
Or rotala on the 37 finding buses waiting at Acocks green on inspectors orders waiting for the rotala bus before pulling out in front.
or offering special discount returns that miraculously dissappear a few months after rotala has withdrawn or a
As has been pointed out They haven't!
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
Sunday 72 purposely running 12 mins late so that it can be directly in front of an operator that is purposely trying to avoid having a head to head competition on the route by timing half way in between.
No that's not predatory at all.
Hasn't happened. Not saying a 72 hasn't run late, but if you think anyone at NX would do that deliberately just because of a tin pot operation
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2015, 11:25:58 PM
Tony you act as if nxwm is an innocent party & other companies are to blame for everything well it just ain't so.
In the days of TWM v Pete's travel several dubious tactics were employed, but NXWM don't do anything other than attempt to run to registered timetables now, not easy on the roads around here now.
And before you complain about them dropping buses in front of you on the 11C if you go and stand outside Acocks Green garage now you will see buses being sent out of garage in gaps. If a driver is due relief and his bus is late and a spare is in the garage they will start one there on time. All to do with trying to keep a service running, but of course it will be just to run in front of Social once they start
There seemed to be a social dart on the 71E today, or at lest that's what it was displaying...?
I see, according to VOSA, they are now running the 71E, opposed to the 72E
With the extra traffic at times on station rd this made it difficult to keep to time on the 72 so it was agreed with vosa to alter to 71e at short notice to assist with reliability.
PD1125565/1 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Chelmsley Road, Pine Square and Solihull, Touchwood Shopping Centre given service number 71E effective from 02-Mar-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.
PD1125565/3 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, 82 BEDFORD ROAD, WEST BROMWICH, B71 2RT
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD
Finish Point: DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD
Via:
Service Number: 11C
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 30-MAR-2015
Other Details: MONDAY TO FRIDAY
S301 SHB broke down on Garrison Lane this morning, so Its two passengers got abandoned midway between bus stops with no other vehicle to pick them up!
At least at a bus stop there is the possibility of appealing to an NXWM driver's better side if you have already paid!
http://wmbusphotos.com/Social/S301SHB.html
tony on that score, if a nxwm driver assisted another operator by taking their passengers from a broken down bus, would they get into bother?
Quote from: mranon on March 21, 2015, 08:09:56 AM
tony on that score, if a nxwm driver assisted another operator by taking their passengers from a broken down bus, would they get into bother?
Some drivers would do it, some wouldn't, but no-one would get into any bother either way. If a revenue team got on, as long as the driver told them what he had done, so the passenger wasn't embarrassed because they hadn't got a valid ticket there would be no problem.
After all, hopefully the passenger would then have a good view on NX and hopefully choose to travel with them in the future
I think social are running out of timetable. I saw an 11C in harborne war lane at 12:02 heading towards Bearwood, yet it wasn't meant to leave till another 12 minutes later according to timetable
@Trident 4194 I've noticed that today on s301.
timetable? What's one of them?
wonder what the changes are to this on vosa today
2. PD1125565/1 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Road, Pine Square and Solihull, Touchwood Shopping Centre given service number 71E effective from 07-Jul-2015. To amend Timetable.
3. PD1125565/3 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Variation Accepted: Operating between DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD and DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD given service number 11C effective from 13-Jul-2015. To amend Timetable
the other dart now painted https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanjack/18588814040/in/dateposted-public/
Timetable drawn up for new route being registered shortly
@Bob...something you may like...
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Cannock Bus Station
Finish Point: Stafford Beaconside
Via: Brocton, Stafford Station, Stafford Hospital
Service Number: 74
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 02-SEP-2015
Other Details: Monday to Saturday (no Sundays or bank holidays)
Another independent attacking Arriva.....
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 14, 2015, 05:04:47 PM
@Bob...something you may like...
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Cannock Bus Station
Finish Point: Stafford Beaconside
Via: Brocton, Stafford Station, Stafford Hospital
Service Number: 74
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 02-SEP-2015
Other Details: Monday to Saturday (no Sundays or bank holidays)
I hope their drivers are aware that concessionary passes are valid pre-09:30 in Staffs. And that they accept Your Staffordshire cards... There are peak journeys as well as an off peak service on this, although not sure how the PM ones have got any chance of being on time... Forgot to check whether the times were on the opposite half hour to Arriva or 5 minutes in front.
Quote from: Cheese on July 14, 2015, 05:16:55 PM
I hope their drivers are aware that concessionary passes are valid pre-09:30 in Staffs. And that they accept Your Staffordshire cards... There are peak journeys as well as an off peak service on this, although not sure how the PM ones have got any chance of being on time... Forgot to check whether the times were on the opposite half hour to Arriva or 5 minutes in front.
Arriva will probably start a X74
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 14, 2015, 05:18:02 PM
Arriva will probably start a X74
How would that work? The 74 already goes down the main road. The only way to do it would be to miss stops out and miss potential. Arriva already tried an extra 74, the 74A which only went as far as the town centre omitting the hospital. Needless to say it bombed & was withdrawn a couple of months after. Interesting though the social travel starts around the time arriva will be completing a network review, i wonder if it will involve confusingly and pointlessly renumbering established services like telfords ( 481/891 etc for example)?
Miss potential passengers that should say. The deckers on the 74/75 have been breaking down a fair bit recently, my mate got stuck in the lanes between cannock and penkridge last week. Theyre also rarely all out, often an old commander or two stuck on. Its funny how service upgrades often degenerate ( not just arriva), the 60 was upgraded with new pulsars in 2011, then they were replaced with 57 plate ex staffords briefly, followed by 61 plate ex-NW ones, and now we have 13 year old commanders and cadets. Staffords lost their 57 plates when they were upgraded to the four deckers, now its often a couple of deckers and usually a couple of commanders often 13 year old examples. Makes you wonder whether upgrades/branding etc is worth the fuss
Re the network review. I would think Arriva schedulers will be furiously sharpening their pencils
I really cant see how much they can change in a review routes wiss in cannock. I really cant
Running this route from a depot base in Smethwick will result in some dead mileage and driver time before any potential income is generated.
It has always been my contention that a route further away costs the same to run as one outside the depot. Why ! Because the driver will still be working the same hours & the vehicle will be doing the same mileage so costs are the same. You just have less time in service in which to break even
Are you going to be using S reg Darts on the 74???.
Not been decided at this time. Depends what buses are bought to be honest. But with sunny getting four buses I would think it'll probably be 2 ex sunny darts which are purchased.
Would they be reliable enough to be used? Arrivas 54/55 plate ones are constantly failing on the 825 lol
It wont last on this route, Arriva have this corridor cornered
It depends?? Cheaper fares etc, plus Arriva's deckers on there break down loads leaving single deckers to cover it which are no way big enough. ( Arriva only have four deckers, the exact allocation, stupidly no spare, which is ridiculous in itself!)
This seems somewhat a stupid move, a long way from the depot plus on a route which Arriva have cornered. I believe this is a recipe for a disaster for Social Travel
We've spent a long time doing our sums. We need 5% share of the passengers to break even.
That's not a high figure to aim for & should be achievable.
I'm sure people thought the same when central buses went on the x55 & the 66 but they're holding their own.
Is that 5% of total passengers or only of cash payers on the bus? How are you allowing for multi journey ticket holders?
Your point about the same cost for further away is correct but your inefficiency will be massive with the dead running to/fr depot.
Cannock is 18 miles away from the depot journey time 28 mins & Stafford 28 miles journey time 40 min look at other opsin the group sunny travel on 71e in Solihull -chelmsley wood 19 miles away Discount travel on 966 nothing said is there about them been miles away from depot
The same point applies on those routes. The dead running reduces the efficiency
Could just give them a chance first.
William, it's 5% of all passengers not counting those with season tickets although the hope is to win some of those over eventually.
Solo you are quite correct, in fact even though the 71 is further away & therefore "less efficient than the 120 it is far more profitable than the 120 was
Quote from: Solo1 on July 26, 2015, 11:27:18 PM
Cannock is 18 miles away from the depot journey time 28 mins & Stafford 28 miles journey time 40 min look at other opsin the group sunny travel on 71e in Solihull -chelmsley wood 19 miles away Discount travel on 966 nothing said is there about them been miles away from depot
Journey time 28 minutes?
That's very exact! As someone who lives in Cannock you would struggle to do Cannock to Smethwick in 28 minutes
Quote from: Steveminor on July 27, 2015, 08:26:12 AM
William, it's 5% of all passengers not counting those with season tickets although the hope is to win some of those over eventually.
Solo you are quite correct, in fact even though the 71 is further away & therefore "less efficient than the 120 it is far more profitable than the 120 was
It's an interesting debate.
How did you count the passengers to work out who had a season ticket or not?
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2015, 08:36:38 AM
Journey time 28 minutes?
That's very exact! As someone who lives in Cannock you would struggle to do Cannock to Smethwick in 28 minutes
http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CBridge%20St%20N%7C%7C-1.961819%7C52.498919%7CtoNode=0%7CCannock,%20Staffordshire,%20UK%7C%7C-2.021829%7C52.699941
Quote from: Solo1 on July 27, 2015, 09:51:24 AM
http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CBridge%20St%20N%7C%7C-1.961819%7C52.498919%7CtoNode=0%7CCannock,%20Staffordshire,%20UK%7C%7C-2.021829%7C52.699941
hmmm, timed at 70mph up the M6, even if the Motorway is clear and free flowing a bus will not do 60mph up the motorway. The chance of the M6 being clear at the moment is also viurtually nil at the moment and if it is has a 50mph speed restriction on it. Try closer to 45 minutes
Presumably they will be running dead at peak times around 7 a.m. and 6 p.m. I'd say closer to 1 hour. Most days there are long delays on the M5 / M6 area of the motorway.
Quote from: Steveminor on July 26, 2015, 10:17:58 PM
We've spent a long time doing our sums. We need 5% share of the passengers to break even.
That's not a high figure to aim for & should be achievable.
I'm sure people thought the same when central buses went on the x55 & the 66 but they're holding their own.
There are a number of differences between Social Travel and Central Buses attempts to launch new routes into new territories
1. CB on X55 provided an alternative to Arriva routes providing a quicker link between two points. ST are simply running along the
same route and offering nothing new from what I understand.
2. CB look extremely professional launched new buses in fleet livery with names, route branding, on-board Wifi, timetables, social
media presence and a website. Drivers dressed in uniforms. ST use much older vehicles, no clear established identity, no website,
drivers generally look scruffy. Are you issuing printed timetables, website, social media presence?
It is somewhat unfair to compare CB and ST at the point where they launched routes into the Staffordshire area as they are very different companies in many ways - size, years of operation... CB have, I believe, many more factors in their favour to establish new routes in new territories.
With the news under GRS Travel that have ceased to operate on the Outer Circle surely you'd be better to build on this route and begin to provide buses on the 11A. As you're not doing this is it right to assume that passenger numbers / revenue on the 11 doesn't warrant extra investment of vehicles?
@Steveminor as it has Been mentioned tomorrow will be the last day of GRS on the outer circle do you have any plans to expand the company and have a go at the 11A ,this will obviously increase the number of passengers on the 8:30 journey from the fox and goose as I use this service and social travel quite often I know this one gets stuck behind a grs.
Quote from: 2206 on July 30, 2015, 10:01:04 PM
@Steveminor as it has Been mentioned tomorrow will be the last day of GRS on the outer circle do you have any plans to expand the company and have a go at the 11A ,this will obviously increase the number of passengers on the 8:30 journey from the fox and goose as I use this service and social travel quite often I know this one gets stuck behind a grs.
Don't suppose it was 4659 you got, if you used the 11A? I think I was at F&G at around 750am ish however.
Quote from: MW on July 30, 2015, 11:22:06 PM
Don't suppose it was 4659 you got, if you used the 11A? I think I was at F&G at around 750am ish however.
@MW No I used the 11C.
All disc's are accounted for at the moment but we'll see what opportunities present themselves when we get more
@Steveminor Are you planning any concessions for Arriva ticket holders on the 74 route??
The fares aren't finalised yet. I've just got back off holiday so I'm working on them now but probably
Have you taken into account the current road works in Stafford. This will have a massive impact on running times to both your new service and Arriva
Looking at it there should be adequate drop back, but you can never plan for the unexpected. Who knows how long the delay could be day to day. If you give too much time then you run the risk of buses running early & as I was always taught no one ever missed a bus because it was running a bit late
Quote from: Steveminor on August 01, 2015, 11:32:57 PM
Looking at it there should be adequate drop back, but you can never plan for the unexpected. Who knows how long the delay could be day to day. If you give too much time then you run the risk of buses running early & as I was always taught no one ever missed a bus because it was running a bit late
Dose that mean your running two buses on the route?
Quote from: Dom on August 02, 2015, 06:57:37 PM
Dose that mean your running two buses on the route?
They will be using two buses.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 01, 2015, 11:32:57 PM
Looking at it there should be adequate drop back, but you can never plan for the unexpected. Who knows how long the delay could be day to day. If you give too much time then you run the risk of buses running early & as I was always taught no one ever missed a bus because it was running a bit late
7 minutes dropback in beaconside, not much time. May see a few late buses
If anyone has not seen social travels timetable for the 74 here it is. http://jp.networkwestmidlands.com/centro/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&hideBannerInfo=1&command=direct&line=04074&net=twm&project=y11&sup=B&lineVer=1&itdLPxx_direction=H&itdLPxx_line=04074&itdLPxx_net=twm&itdLPxx_project=y11&itdLPxx_sup=B&itdLPxx_lineVer=1&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_debug=
Are Social Travel doing better on the 11 now GRS have gone.
It's made absolutely no difference
Quote from: Steveminor on August 11, 2015, 02:42:33 PM
It's made absolutely no difference
Would you ever consider running in the other direction and operate the 11A.
All licences are accounted for at the moment. We will evaluate our position after the 74 starts.
The Arnold schwarzenegger looking driver wasn't on the 11C today, he's been on nearly every day in the past! Just the ex GRS and a new guy.
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2015, 07:49:22 PM
The Arnold schwarzenegger looking driver wasn't on the 11C today, he's been on nearly every day in the past! Just the ex GRS and a new guy.
I think I know who the new one is. All but one day, if you mean the one who listens to music while he is driving and drives the MPD with the stuck up hair and headphones and also let's his pasengers on for free and has reduced his daysaver price so it is just under the price NXWM charge. He also excepts NXWM bus passes. 8:30 from the Fox and goose?
Quote from: 2206 on August 11, 2015, 07:55:30 PM
I think I know who the new one is. All but one day, if you mean the one who listens to music while he is driving and drives the MPD with the stuck up hair and headphones and also let's his passengers on for free and has reduced his daysaver price so it is just under the price NXWM charge. 8:30 from the Fox and goose?
Is that legal?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on August 11, 2015, 07:57:29 PM
Is that legal?
Don't know but he dose play it so loud the whole bus can here it.
Quote from: 2206 on August 11, 2015, 08:11:26 PM
Tony's picture of S302 SHB shows a driver wearing headphones and listening to music.
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/Social/S309SHB.html
How do you know he's listening to music? It might be a hands free device
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2015, 08:12:59 PM
How do you know he's listening to music? It might be a hands free device
Ok but the driver I am on about definitely listens to music. It's always his bus that comes every morning.
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2015, 08:12:59 PM
How do you know he's listening to music? It might be a hands free device
Isn't it more to the point, if he is listening to music on headphones, it may be distracting his driving !!
Exactly what I thought
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on August 11, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Isn't it more to the point, if he is listening to music on headphones, it may be distracting his driving !!
With headphones in for any reason, even if it is for hands free phone, it still could make the difference between hearing a child scream or not
Why is this the first I'm hearing of this.
If anyone has any information about drivers that they think we need to know please PM me don't just go on moaning about someone or something without informing me. That goes for any company. Inform the company or representative first. If nothing is done then you have every right to moan.
I'm sure other operators on here would second that comment.
Looks like nobody has posted this.
Social Travel have purchased two EX Sunny Travel Darts 563 and 564
So the fleet should look like this once the 74 starts
X183CTG - for the 11C
S301SHB - for the 74
S309SHB - for the 74
V563JBH - for the 11C/Spare Bus ( One of the two unconfirmed yet )
V564JBH - for the 11C/Spare Bus ( One of the two unconfirmed yet )
One will be for the 11C the other for a Spare Bus
So no more SPD's on the 11 then, disappointing.
Quote from: trident4370 on August 23, 2015, 12:39:06 PM
So no more SPD's on the 11 then, disappointing.
Yeah no more SPD's on the 11 the companies reasons for that are they do not want to put the MPD on the 74 yet incase it's to small and they would prefer not to put the V reg darts on the 74 either because the seats are warn. They will not refurbrish the V reg darts though the seats are warn because they may not stay in the fleet long as planned.
@trident4370
Just got to hope now the buses will make it to cannock or stafford
The first EX Sunny Travel dart now has it's top primer coat of paint on so will be in the full livery soon.
Quote from: 2206 on August 23, 2015, 01:31:24 PM
They will not refurbrish the V reg darts though the seats are warn because they may not stay in the fleet long as planned.
So basically the 11 once again has tatty darts running on it, things really don't change much do they!
Quote from: trident4370 on August 23, 2015, 11:27:33 PM
So basically the 11 once again has tatty darts running on it, things really don't change much do they!
Well it is being upgraded with Geminis, but it was 11 years ago too, so maybe you're right :D
Quote from: MW on August 23, 2015, 11:34:19 PM
Well it is being upgraded with Geminis, but it was 11 years ago too, so maybe you're right :D
Put it this way, I'd take a Gemini over an ex UNO dart! The 11 just seems to be the dumping ground for everyone. If you go back 6 years NX had Geminis on there competing with Ampm Darts, now they are "upgrading" it to the same Geminis that will be competing this time with Social Darts...
Quote from: trident4370 on August 23, 2015, 11:27:33 PM
So basically the 11 once again has tatty darts running on it, things really don't change much do they!
Have to agree their
@trident4370 not fogetting AMPM Volvo Olympians and the Metrobus that NXWM used on the 11 school sevices. :)
Quote from: 2206 on August 23, 2015, 11:57:17 PM
Have to agree their @trident4370 not fogetting AMPM Volvo Olympians and the Metrobus that NXWM used on the 11 school sevices. :)
That's true, they even had wifi (when it worked), I think they all ended up on the 900/110 in the end though and the 11 had more darts than anything else? My memory is a bit vague but I do remember the ampm 11 went through a dart phase. There's an irony actually in the 5/6 years since, the NX 900 has had 2 upgrades yet the Outer Circle is only just getting the buses it had then back as an "Upgrade"!
Quote from: trident4370 on August 24, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
That's true, they even had wifi (when it worked), I think they all ended up on the 900/110 in the end though and the 11 had more darts than anything else? My memory is a bit vague but I do remember the ampm 11 went through a dart phase. There's an irony actually in the 5/6 years since, the NX 900 has had 2 upgrades yet the Outer Circle is only just getting the buses it had then back as an "Upgrade"!
We still had the NXWM MCW Metrobus on some 11 journeys in 2010 the last route to ever use them other than the last day towards the end of July. You probably are correct can't realy remember their darts that well though everything will be the same again except this time without the Metrobus.
@trident4370
Quote from: trident4370 on August 24, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
the NX 900 has had 2 upgrades yet the Outer Circle is only just getting the buses it had then back as an "Upgrade"!
Not forgetting the NX 957, 71, 72, 934, 935 and 936
AG's youngest decker is 4679 which is now nearly 11 years old!
Guys it's not that we're just dumping the tat on the 11, if we were going on another local route then the spds would be staying on the 11 but when you have a route that is some distance from your depot it makes sense to put your better buses there.
Remember if all goes to plan the v regs won't be staying that long & we'll one of them is staying as a spare so you still got the x reg mpd anyway.
Didn't realise you guys liked the spds so much lol
The AmPm Darts ran the 6 mainly - was quite an interesting time seeing them on the 6 and Olympians on the 11!
NX do need to invest in the 11 at some point soon - it's meant to be a flagship route for AG. The Plaxtons and even refurbished Geminis don't live up to the impression the MMCs give.
I suppose the thing to remember is we are enthusiasts, Joe Public wouldn't even know what an SPD is! Personally though I do prefer them, they have a certain Excel quality about them.
Quote from: Liberator9 on August 24, 2015, 07:20:06 AM
NX do need to invest in the 11 at some point soon - it's meant to be a flagship route for AG. The Plaxtons and even refurbished Geminis don't live up to the impression the MMCs give.
I just hope it doesn't end up a Sprint route...
Quote from: trident4370 on August 24, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
I suppose the thing to remember is we are enthusiasts, Joe Public wouldn't even know what an SPD is! Personally though I do prefer them, they have a certain Excel quality about them. I just hope it doesn't end up a Sprint route...
As nice as these new buses look to the public, personally i don't really want the 11 to get newer buses. All new buses in general seem so boring, lack of power due to all this Euro rubbish, low revving, and to top it off like the MMCs have voice recording and also they can see which pedals depressed when and which indicators etc are on at any time. It all seems a bit too Big Brother to me, I don't really feel comfortable in the MMCs sometimes. Just feels like they are waiting for some sort of complaint to give you some sort of disciplinary!
Quote from: MW on August 24, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
As nice as these new buses look to the public, personally i don't really want the 11 to get newer buses. All new buses in general seem so boring, lack of power due to all this Euro rubbish, low revving, and to top it off like the MMCs have voice recording and also they can see which pedals depressed when and which indicators etc are on at any time. It all seems a bit too Big Brother to me, I don't really feel comfortable in the MMCs sometimes. Just feels like they are waiting for some sort of complaint to give you some sort of disciplinary!
I personally think the public do not care whether they get a MMC or, a 17 year old bus
@MW the only reason they caught the bus in the first place was to get to their destination.
Quote from: MW on August 24, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
As nice as these new buses look to the public, personally i don't really want the 11 to get newer buses. All new buses in general seem so boring, lack of power due to all this Euro rubbish, low revving, and to top it off like the MMCs have voice recording and also they can see which pedals depressed when and which indicators etc are on at any time. It all seems a bit too Big Brother to me, I don't really feel comfortable in the MMCs sometimes. Just feels like they are waiting for some sort of complaint to give you some sort of disciplinary!
Don't get me wrong I am loving the fact the Geminis are returning, I love all B7TLs Euro 2, Euro 3, Voith, ZF so to go from Presidents to Geminis is great for me, I just feel with a route like the 11 it is a bit of a poor show from a commercial point of view. You could ask most people in Birmingham where the 11 goes and they would be able to tell you! That makes me wonder if such equipment would ever be rolled out to existing buses, certainly wouldn't be surprised if all the Euro 4s eventually recorded sound aswell as video.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 24, 2015, 06:46:52 AM
Guys it's not that we're just dumping the tat on the 11, if we were going on another local route then the spds would be staying on the 11 but when you have a route that is some distance from your depot it makes sense to put your better buses there.
Remember if all goes to plan the v regs won't be staying that long & we'll one of them is staying as a spare so you still got the x reg mpd anyway.
Didn't realise you guys liked the spds so much lol
Why travel so far for a route then? Seems wierd to me
Quote from: 2206 on August 11, 2015, 08:02:53 PM
Don't know but he dose play it so loud the whole bus can here it.
It is not illegal to drive a PCV whilst listening to music. If it was, how many coach drivers would still have a licence? Despite the propaganda that bus companies feed their new employees, there is no such law. They simply choose to have their own rules.
The only thing you could be prosecuted for is driving without due care and attention if it was merited. This would not necessarily be directly attributable to listening to music in a court of law with a decent brief.
Quote from: andy41 on August 25, 2015, 10:21:56 AM
It is not illegal to drive a PCV whilst listening to music. If it was, how many coach drivers would still have a licence? Despite the propaganda that bus companies feed their new employees, there is no such law. They simply choose to have their own rules.
The only thing you could be prosecuted for is driving without due care and attention if it was merited. This would not necessarily be directly attributable to listening to music in a court of law with a decent brief.
To be fair if I was a passenger and got on a bus with a driver listening to music I would think this is very rude and can see why Bus Companies ban this. Customer Satisfaction is the name of the game.
Quote from: Dutsey on August 25, 2015, 10:56:19 AM
To be fair if I was a passenger and got on a bus with a driver listening to music I would think this is very rude and can see why Bus Companies ban this. Customer Satisfaction is the name of the game.
I would agree with this. Some companies though have low standards as regards the presentation of vehicles and drivers.
Quote from: Dutsey on August 25, 2015, 10:56:19 AM
To be fair if I was a passenger and got on a bus with a driver listening to music I would think this is very rude and can see why Bus Companies ban this. Customer Satisfaction is the name of the game.
The question I was answering was 'isn't this illegal?' Unfortunately the quote didn't carry over in full.
Will be route training with a bus tomorrow morning if anyone wants a picture of social travel in Cannock or stafford.
No doubt I will create some controversy with my thoughts, but why have Social Travel started on the 11C Outer Circle route?
1) National Express West Midlands have a daytime frequency of 7 or 8 minutes each way (on the 11A (anticlockwise) and 11C (clockwise)) during normal working hours (a route that takes about 2 1/2 hours in total). What do Social Travel offer, 8 journeys in one direction only on the 11C (all at irregular timings). How can people be expected to be loyal to a company that takes them 15 minutes to get to their destination one way, and 2 hours 15 minutes back? This assumes the service is still running late afternoon and at regular intervals.
2) What worries me also is that Social Travel fail to show any fleetnames on the vehicles I have seen on the 11C. Why not show them and promote the company?
3) A further concern is that if the management had looked into the service they are providing, they would have seen previous failures for obvious reasons of copycat operators.
Quote from: Bryan on September 01, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
No doubt I will create some controversy with my thoughts, but why have Social Travel started on the 11C Outer Circle route?
1) National Express West Midlands have a daytime frequency of 7 or 8 minutes each way (on the 11A (anticlockwise) and 11C (clockwise)) during normal working hours (a route that takes about 2 1/2 hours in total). What do Social Travel offer, 8 journeys in one direction only on the 11C (all at irregular timings). How can people be expected to be loyal to a company that takes them 15 minutes to get to their destination one way, and 2 hours 15 minutes back? This assumes the service is still running late afternoon and at regular intervals.
2) What worries me also is that Social Travel fail to show any fleetnames on the vehicles I have seen on the 11C. Why not show them and promote the company?
3) A further concern is that if the management had looked into the service they are providing, they would have seen previous failures for obvious reasons of copycat operators.
Social Travel started the 11C at the end of March!
They are acturely doing quite well on it.
@Bryan In the future Social and DTS may look at expanding on it
If it works out well for them.
Quote from: 2206 on September 01, 2015, 07:03:13 PM
Social Travel started the 11C at the end of March!
They are acturely doing quite well on it. @Bryan
In the future Social and DTS may look at expanding on it
I may be proved wrong, but I doubt it!
Quote from: Bryan on September 01, 2015, 07:16:31 PM
I may be proved wrong, but I doubt it!
Well if they were doing badly on the 11 why are they still on it 4 months later?
Quote from: Bryan on September 01, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
What do Social Travel offer, 8 journeys in one direction only on the 11C (all at irregular timings). How can people be expected to be loyal to a company that takes them 15 minutes to get to their destination one way, and 2 hours 15 minutes back?
I don't think its any case of building 'company loyalty', but rather identifying where in the timetable they can maximise picking up the most cash-paying customers (or concessionary card users) that they can. That's business. When I used to live in Bearwood, and used to have a Centro Regional pass (the modern day nBus), I used to get the first 82 that turned up, whether it was NX or the other independent operator (I forget the name now sorry) that ran on there. I had no loyalty, I just wanted to get to work.
@Steveminor nice to see the 74 looking busy at 3.55 shortly followed by an half empty arriva decker lol
Thanks. It's been a very busy day
nice friendly driver on 74 this afternoon..... i owe him a fag!! lol
Seen the social 74 coming into stafford just after 10 today with a few passenger on it followed a couple of mins later by a almost empty Arriva decker. Going out of Stafford there was an Arriva decker parked at the stop by radford bank.I looked back and im sure it said not in sservice
It probably did say not in service bob as they kept alternating between a decker & a daf commander yesterday for some reason.
Ah maybe the decker kept having problems
its arriva bob them deckers are always knackered
Due to a breakdown v 564 is making a very rare appearance on the 74 if anyone's interested. Not planned to do it again.
How's ridership been? How are your fares compared to arriva
Some journeys have had standing loads & our cannock stafford weekly is cheaper than arriva local weekly.
Obviously with arriva changing times we have to see what difference that makes. But arriva have timed all routes behind us we are now first bus through Huntington first bus through rad Ford bank first bus through university & first bus through hospital. What arriva are playing ain't god knows.
It's chaos today though as noone knows what times the buses are & we had about 20 angry passengers in Stafford wanting to know where the 75 was. They weren't happy when I told them arriva had changed times & it wasn't due for 20 mins.
just seen arriva in wimblebury 6 mins early followed by select
That's why select are going head to head with arriva. Enough is enough arriva must learn to follow timetables
best of luck to arriva if they think they can run wimblebury commercialy
i love the fact small operators are hitting them where it hurts
@Steveminor could you tell me how much adult fare is Cannock-Stafford and do you do returns
The fare is £3.00 single £4.20 return or £16.00 weekly children are half fare staffordshire your cards £1.20
Will Plusbus be accepted in Stafford Town Centre?
cheers for that but sadly my old lady wont pass for half fare lol
Quote from: Steveminor on September 05, 2015, 10:39:04 PM
The fare is £3.00 single £4.20 return or £16.00 weekly children are half fare staffordshire your cards £1.20
£4.20 return? No wonder you've hit arriva where it hurts lol!
Yes plusbus is accepted & the new manager accepts pints lol.
Bob it's not the £4.20 return that's upset arriva it's the £1.50 stafford local fare all the way from wildwood to the uni they don't like.
I can see the arriva 74 being converted to MPDs shortly.......lol
so a crate of lager is accepted as bus fare lol, i like!!! lol
i noticed Arriva this evening on 74 coming into the bus station blaring its horn trying to get S309 to move then clocked the snide arriva driver taking a photo just as s309 pulled away... Arriva thinking they own the BS as usual (The Arriva busas 3740, bald headed chap driving)
3740 eh? I reckon the deckers will be gone soon, less need for them now plus they're never on there half the time & now that the pvr is 5 buses, if they were needed Cannock would have a 5th decker!
yes they need dropping down a peg or two in both cannock and stafford bus stations. i wonder how social are averaging out on these 74's
Well I witnessed last week a motorcyle rider get of the social travel 74 then get onto a motorbike. This same bike and rider then drove in front of the 74 Arriva which I was on at about 15 mph, I must say a big thank you to whoever the car driver was who stopped and took the motorcycle drivers photo. According to the driver, the car driver is going to give it to the police I hope justice will be served. The Arriva driver did say he would report it to his managers so they could download the CCTV.
Seems a rather odd thing todo
15 mph on a motorbike would have been very dangerous for a motorbike rider are you sure of your facts re the speed, we're you looking at the speedo or was the speedo on the bus correct.
You also don't state where I mean some roads in Stafford have roadworks on them so if it was there I could actually fully understand as it would be dangerous for a motorbike to ride fast over potentially dangerous ground.
Well it was a rough guess. But lets say there was a tail back of traffic from cannock. When a car driver stopped and took his picture at brocton he was not a happy car driver. So from Cannock towards stafford. Which was strange as the motorcycle rider got off the bus which had just come that way. Anyway I hope he is caught
Im not implying this had anything to do with Social Travel but just staying that the rider got off the social travel bus then did that, just to clear up facts
There was a moped rider the other day that was asking directions. So if it was him then no wonder it was going slow as a lot of mopeds as you know can only do just over 30 mpd.
If it was him then there's a lot of fuss being caused to some poor guy that couldn't go any faster.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 15, 2015, 03:22:09 PM
There was a moped rider the other day that was asking directions. So if it was him then no wonder it was going slow as a lot of mopeds as you know can only do just over 30 mpd.
If it was him then there's a lot of fuss being caused to some poor guy that couldn't go any faster.
Well he caused some major traffic issues and for sure the car driver who took his pictures was not a happy chap
On the 11 today
X183CTG ( On the 1st journey of the day ) usually is the 2nd bus on there that one is usually the journey V564JBH dose.
And apparently a very rare R823HCD
What will be on the 74 then?
X183 was 74 yesterday
They've only got one bus on the 11C today. A white ALX200 R reg. So are they following GRS by not operating buses... Hmm... The owner seems a genuine guy aswell.
Quote from: MW on September 17, 2015, 05:11:45 PM
They've only got one bus on the 11C today. A white ALX200 R reg. So are they following GRS by not operating buses... Hmm... The owner seems a genuine guy aswell.
That bus is R823HCD
@MW
Quote from: MW on September 17, 2015, 05:11:45 PM
They've only got one bus on the 11C today. A white ALX200 R reg. So are they following GRS by not operating buses... Hmm... The owner seems a genuine guy aswell.
It's not a case of here we go again with a another Transport Commissioners hearing again in the not to distant future?
The mpd was also on there, at least it was when I dropped in on the drivers unannounced.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 17, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
The mpd was also on there, at least it was when I dropped in on the drivers unannounced.
I done 3 trips on the 11A. Only saw the R reg ALX200 with the ex GRS driver, driving it.
Quote from: MW on September 17, 2015, 09:13:30 PM
I done 3 trips on the 11A. Only saw the R reg ALX200 with the ex GRS driver, driving it.
Perhaps broke down for a while
Quote from: LG on September 17, 2015, 09:15:04 PM
Perhaps broke down for a while
My first two trips were between 9am and 2pm. And then 3.30pm till 6.15 pm, and I'm sure they only run from around 9am till 7pm. I think it didn't run at all...
Quote from: MW on September 17, 2015, 09:16:54 PM
My first two trips were between 9am and 2pm. And then 3.30pm till 6.15 pm, and I'm sure they only run from around 9am till 7pm. I think it didn't run at all...
They start at 6:45 AM
@MW from the City Hospital
May have passed it in bearwood or where the a goes slightly different to c.
If it wasn't out he did a good job of taking cash from nowhere lol plus a significant amount of passes. So even if he decided to hide for a while & put cash in himself to make it look good you can't fake the concessionary passes as you could in the old days.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 17, 2015, 09:20:46 PM
May have passed it in bearwood or where the a goes slightly different to c.
If it wasn't out he did a good job of taking cash from nowhere lol plus a significant amount of passes. So even if he decided to hide for a while & put cash in himself to make it look good you can't fake the concessionary passes as you could in the old days.
You cant argue that
You can argue with it if it's not true. Owner says it ran - of course he does
Well I've got the inspector ticket scanned to prove it. Both buses ran on time virtually to the minute when observed & I'm not the owner I'm the manager. I've always been open & honest on this forum there's no need to lie & make stuff up.
If it didn't run I'd say look back at past posts regarding dts sunny & social & you'll see I'm correct.
Besides there is no need to prove anything on here its what the officials ie centro/tc sees that matters & they both know we didn't miss yesterday & when we do they know that too as it shows in our daily lost mileage bsog report.
Post the ticket here?
It has commercially sensitive information regarding how many concessionary passes & how many of each type of ticket plus total revenue so far. Do no I won't post the tickets.
A bit dissapointing today to see Social Travel not running to their scheduled timetable on the 74 service, in fact not even the whole route.
If your bus is scheduled to depart from Beaconside according to your timetable I have then it shouldnt start at the university.
Then do you think its acceptable for your driver to wait for the arriva bus to arrive before you depart?? What I find ironic is that reading earlier posts you said "its about time arriva learnt to stick to the timetable"
The Arriva bus was bang on schedule as I would expect, however despite the antic of your driver the Arriva bus still managed to get a near full load behind you and still mangaged to get to cannock bang on time. Well done Arriva!!!
What well done it got to cannock without breaking down? Lol
Well the road the university is on is beaconside hence it saying beaconside on the timetable. I take on board maybe a slight confusion so if we alter the timetable at any point I'll put it down as university. Also the arriva bus is timetabled to depart 1 min after us since their timetable change, so yes our bus would be leaving just in front. What you want us to do depart early just so we're further ahead!!.
Also at no point today has any arriva 74 had a full load not even a half load
Quote from: Steveminor on September 18, 2015, 05:11:31 PM
Well the road the university is on is beaconside hence it saying beaconside on the timetable. I take on board maybe a slight confusion so if we alter the timetable at any point I'll put it down as university. Also the arriva bus is timetabled to depart 1 min after us since their timetable change, so yes our bus would be leaving just in front. What you want us to do depart early just so we're further ahead!!.
Also at no point today has any arriva 74 had a full load not even a half load
I beg to differ I was sat on the bus I know how many people were on it
Just X183 on the 11C today too. Just one bus. 100%
It was being driven by the owner.
Quote from: MW on September 18, 2015, 07:10:26 PM
Just X183 on the 11C today too. Just one bus. 100%
It was being driven by the owner.
Would not surprise me
Quote from: MW on September 18, 2015, 07:10:26 PM
Just X183 on the 11C today too. Just one bus. 100%
It was being driven by the owner.
Perhaps the other ones has had a new camouflage livery applied?
Quote from: LG on September 18, 2015, 05:13:58 PM
I beg to differ I was sat on the bus I know how many people were on it
On the buses I have seen on the Social Travel service 11C recently, the most passengers I have seen in the Acocks Green area is one. I sincerely doubt the service will last until the end of the year.
Quote from: Bryan on September 18, 2015, 07:15:50 PM
On the buses I have seen on the Social Travel service 11C recently, the most passengers I have seen in the Acocks Green area is one. I sincerely doubt the service will last until the end of the year.
Why do you doubt it the 11 is doing well. There was one in Acocks Green on Wednesday with 15 passengers on it has lasted from March till September so, I think it will last
@BryanSure you did not see R823
@MW should of been in plain wight?
Quote from: 2206 on September 18, 2015, 07:37:24 PM
Why do you doubt it the 11 is doing well. There was one in Acocks Green on Wednesday with 15 passenger on it has lasted from March till September so, I think it will last @Bryan
Sure you did not see R823 @MW should of been in plane wight?
Time will tell.
2206 is right the Alexander & the mpd were on today 301 & 309 were on.the 74.
Also if the 11 wasn't profitable we would have pulled it off to put the 74 on not gone out & bought more buses to run it
R823 did miss a journey after break when it overheated with a burst pipe but it was sorted & only missed one trip. Well less than an hour off the road.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 18, 2015, 07:58:57 PM
R823 did miss a journey after break when it overheated with a burst pipe but it was sorted & only missed one trip. Well less than an hour off the road.
It's like an elaborate game of hide and seek. Or that TV prog on at the moment called Hunted.
So far 2 missed buses but excuses for both so that's ok then.
On my three journeys on the 11A, only X183 was seen. I agree yesterday may have been a coincidence, but today aswell? Hell no. They are not running timetabled journeys just like GRS.
Quote from: MW on September 18, 2015, 10:54:40 PM
On my three journeys on the 11A, only X183 was seen. I agree yesterday may have been a coincidence, but today aswell? Hell no. They are not running timetabled journeys just like GRS.
As the honorable gentleman,
@Steveminor said, they had justifiable cause to be unable to run a journey on there, thus meaning that you would not have seen a bus on one of your trips.
How many trips have NXWM missed on there? I am sure it is more than Social Travel.
Furthermore, I can hardly consider Social Travel to be comparable to GRS Travel.
Thanks trainbasher.
No doubt there will be comments on Monday that buses are missing again. As I have said before though the people that matter ie centro & tc are aware that the buses were running. In fact Austin jones from the vosa was actually on the 11 today & someone from centro they know the buses were running. So that's all that matters.
As someone has pointed out in a PM. MY R823 was actually behind another bus of nxwm that you apparently didn't see.
We're you actually on the 11 as you seem to be the only person that hasn't seen the 2 buses
Quote from: Steveminor on September 18, 2015, 11:38:33 PM
Thanks trainbasher.
No doubt there will be comments on Monday that buses are missing again. As I have said before though the people that matter ie centro & tc are aware that the buses were running. In fact Austin jones from the vosa was actually on the 11 today & someone from centro they know the buses were running. So that's all that matters.
As someone has pointed out in a PM. MY R823 was actually behind another bus of nxwm that you apparently didn't see.
We're you actually on the 11 as you seem to be the only person that hasn't seen the 2 buses
4647, 4667 & 4672 were my buses.
@MW maybe you just did not notice it when it passed
Few Arriva drivers in Cannock running social down lately, claiming the social driver is making it a personal grudge against Arriva? yet from what I saw yesterday arriva 74 pulled on stand 4 with the 1 double parking aside it blocking 1 of socials spds in, id say its Arriva with the grudge there pulling stunts like that...
definately busman jamie. they seem to be taking the preverbial mickey on stand 7 and 1 in front of nxwm too
Don't forget about select too. In fact they act as if they own the bus station & that's not helped by the fact several drivers actually believe they do .
Shock - people working for Arriva want to defend their business and livelihoods
There's a difference in competing to defend your business and acting illegally to block your competitors threaten their drivers & run buses that aren't even registered. Grs & travel express found out just what happens when you do that.
Rather than running unregistered journeys and blocking stands then why not just let passengers decide which bus to travel on. Sticking buses on that aren't duplicates ( surely if they were they would be a bus drafted in at cannock to help with loading issues on the existing decker and running parallel to it not an mpd dragged in from Stafford garage that doesn't, that just stinks of desperation! )
It's obv they are trying to run anybody who gets in there way out of town I guess that's protecting there routes
If privatisation etc worked this sort of thing wasn't supposed to be allowed. ...
Quote from: Bob on September 20, 2015, 03:05:29 PM
If privatisation etc worked this sort of thing wasn't supposed to be allowed. ...
That's trying to create a monopoly.
Arriva pretty much have a monopoly in cannock
the only way to stop this is if socal & arriva both agree on a timetable where there is a bus evey 30 min so both parties are hapy no more arriva blocking the stands
Don't see how that would happen when arriva have just registered a 74b to run just in front of us.
As has been said, everyone just run their timetable & let the passengers decide.
true I didn't know arriva had done that
Quote from: Solo1 on September 20, 2015, 07:01:33 PM
true I didn't know arriva had done that
PD0000478/434 - ARRIVA MIDLANDS NORTH LTD T/A ARRIVA MIDLANDS, THURMASTON GARAGE, 4 WESTMORELAND AVENUE, THURMASTON, LEICESTER, LE4 8PH
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Cannock Bus Station
Finish Point: Stafford, Technology Park
Via: Huntington, Brocton, Queensville, Stafford Town Centre, Stafford County Hospital
Service Number: 74B
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 07-NOV-2015
Other Details: Monday to Saturday, daytimes.
If arriva were willing to be sensible & sit down & talk about sharing the route on a 30 min joint frequency we would be more than willing to talk about that.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 01:40:39 PM
There's a difference in competing to defend your business and acting illegally to block your competitors threaten their drivers & run buses that aren't even registered. Grs & travel express found out just what happens when you do that.
I know nothing about you or your business, but if you are making what the TC's office would regard as very serious allegations about another operator's conduct I hope you have the means to back it up. Otherwise it could turn messy should Arriva take offence.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 07:16:24 PM
If arriva were willing to be sensible & sit down & talk about sharing the route on a 30 min joint frequency we would be more than willing to talk about that.
I'm not holding my breath though.
For real? You have been on this service for five minutes and are already inviting the established and financially much stronger incumbent to sit down with you to thrash out terms for a joint operation - the same operator you have just accused of serious irregularities?!
The tc monitor has witnessed it first hand, so has staffordshire county council, select bus, d&g , Nxwm & there is a whole host of cctv evidence.
So I'm not making anything up.
For it to be slander it must be a lie. I'm only saying what everyone else has seen & is backed up with evidence.
I'm not inviting anyone to do anything. If you read the thread solo suggested we should both run a joint 30 min service & I mearly pointed out we would not be averse to this.
Clearly from comments on here from people I suspect are connected with or are actually from arriva.
This multi national financial strong massive operator is so threatened by 2 buses.
I personally think that is hilarious.
You're hilarious.
What other business spends their time coming on here justifying their existence. Or any other business on any other industry who would spend their time on message boards.
And if people on here are connected to Arriva or work for them, then so what. Only the same as what you are doing.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 07:16:24 PM
If arriva were willing to be sensible & sit down & talk about sharing the route on a 30 min joint frequency we would be more than willing to talk about that.
I'm not holding my breath though.
That is so funny. Illegal as well.
The difference is I'm not hiding who I work for or am connected with.
& how is that suggestion illegal if it was agreed properly through the correct channels. Besides it's a mute point cause it'll never happen.
Oh and you say what other business spends time on these message boards, I suggest you look at the rotala section where simon dunn takes & answers questions.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 07:33:57 PM
The tc monitor has witnessed it first hand, so has staffordshire county council, select bus, d&g , Nxwm & there is a whole host of cctv evidence.
So I'm not making anything up.
For it to be slander it must be a lie. I'm only saying what everyone else has seen & is backed up with evidence.
Inviting the traffic commisioner is dangerous business. I mean then they will also witness whay Social Travel are up to. For example not serving stafford hospital because the Arriva bus had just come out then leaving an elderly passenger at the next stop because she actually wanted the hospital.
Also what are social travel buses doing in the technology park??? I thought you only registered to the university
Quote from: LG on September 20, 2015, 08:38:46 PM
Inviting the traffic commisioner is dangerous business. I mean then they will also witness whay Social Travel are up to. For example not serving stafford hospital because the Arriva bus had just come out then leaving an elderly passenger at the next stop because she actually wanted the hospital.
Also what are social travel buses doing in the technology park??? I thought you only registered to the university
Yes, Very few operators actually report their competitors to DVSA (VOSA) for that very reason. Even if it happens accidently, it only takes DVSA to send a monitor out the day the complaining operator has a bad day (breakdowns/drivers not turning up/driver decides he needs to get home so runs early on his last trip) and they find themselves in a PI
Quote from: Tony on September 20, 2015, 08:43:28 PM
Yes, Very few operators actually report their competitors to DVSA (VOSA) for that very reason. Even if it happens accidently, it only takes DVSA to send a monitor out the day the complaining operator has a bad day (breakdowns/drivers not turning up/driver decides he needs to get home so runs early on his last trip) and they find themselves in a PI
Exactly Tony
Let me get one thing straight we didn't invite the tc at all.
If any bus has missed part of the route this would show up on our etm data & our own monitor who randomly checks our services to ensure compliance. We take operating to the correct route & timetable very serious too many operators have lost discs recently to take that risk. So risking the business just to pick up 30 or 40 passengers that would probably have caught our bus anyway just isn't worth it.
As for the technology park!! Clearly you don't know what our registration says, otherwise you wouldn't keep questioning why our buses are doing this or going there.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but if you are accusing us of serving a location we haven't registered then why don't you ask via pm if we serve that point before throwing out wild accusations.
Anyway reading your post about the hospital incident you don't actually make any sense.
If we didn't go into the hospital then leave an elderly passenger at the next stop cause she wanted to go to the hospital. Surely if she was at the next stop then that's passed the hospital, so how could she have wanted to go there shed have had to be at the stop before the hospital.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 08:52:51 PM
Let me get one thing straight we didn't invite the tc at all.
If any bus has missed part of the route this would show up on our etm data & our own monitor who randomly checks our services to ensure compliance. We take operating to the correct route & timetable very serious too many operators have lost discs recently to take that risk. So risking the business just to pick up 30 or 40 passengers that would probably have caught our bus anyway just isn't worth it.
As for the technology park!! Clearly you don't know what our registration says, otherwise you wouldn't keep questioning why our buses are doing this or going there.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but if you are accusing us of serving a location we haven't registered then why don't you ask via pm if we serve that point before throwing out wild accusations.
Anyway reading your post about the hospital incident you don't actually make any sense.
If we didn't go into the hospital then leave an elderly passenger at the next stop cause she wanted to go to the hospital. Surely if she was at the next stop then that's passed the hospital, so how could she have wanted to go there shed have had to be at the stop before the hospital.
Sorry let me clarify. I was on the Arriva 74 and was on the top deck. The Social travel bus then didnt serve the hospital and went straight through the traffic lights. Then I heard the elderly passenger ask the Arriva Driver "how do I get to the hospital now as I have just got off that bus and after saying he hoes to the hospital has left me here".
I hope that clears things up for you.
Must have good hearing to hear an elderly passenger from the top deck.
Do you have a vehicle reg & time for me so I can investigate please.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 09:02:34 PM
Must have good hearing to hear an elderly passenger from the top deck.
Do you have a vehicle reg & time for me so I can investigate please.
Bit sterotypical saying all elderly people are very quiet when speaking!
Not what I'm saying at all dom. It's just a true fact that sometimes it's difficult to hear anyone talk to the driver when you're upstairs.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 09:14:53 PM
Not what I'm saying at all dom. It's just a true fact that sometimes it's difficult to hear anyone talk to the driver when you're upstairs.
Seconded. It wasn't meant as a stereotype.
Just seems like the small fish is taking an arse pelting from the bigger fish again.
If people have queries/complaints then nothings to be gained from trying to instigate a row. However if and only if Arriva are guilty of what's been mentions then why should they get away with the sort of antics that got Travel Express etc in the doghouse (hopefully that's as impartial as intended)
Thank you Ashley don't think you could get more impartial.
I'll state this for the record & try & nip this in the bud right now. If anyone has any issues regarding any social travel bus, service or driver then please there is a pm button hit that & message me directly with dates times registration number & a description of the incident. I can then investigate the matter & take appropriate action (as others can testify to).
This is an Internet forum to exchange information & ask questions and let others know about bus movements & service changes. It shouldn't be a place to try & run down an operator. I have always tried to be open & honest on this forum & always will be. But if people who want to hide their real identities try to use this forum to cause trouble by telling such blatant lies then I ain't interested.
Fully agree with that - if anyone has an issue with a bus operator, do what any ordinary customer would do, contact the company directly in private. There's no need to constantly post suspicions publicly that Social are failing to operate in a correct manner. It's good of
@Steveminor to come on here and be a focal point for any questions or interest in their operations.
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on September 20, 2015, 09:38:06 PM
Seconded. It wasn't meant as a stereotype.
Just seems like the small fish is taking an arse pelting from the bigger fish again.
If people have queries/complaints then nothings to be gained from trying to instigate a row. However if and only if Arriva are guilty of what's been mentions then why should they get away with the sort of antics that got Travel Express etc in the doghouse (hopefully that's as impartial as intended)
it'll be interesting to see what Arriva do/how they react if & when other routes competing with them are launched!
wasnt arriva behaving the same way in Burton against Midland Classic? no wonder Select,D&G,Central,Social, and other dmall independants are attacking on routes.... look at the X70 timed to leave at 55 the hour, you stand in Cannock at 8.50 when Select67 nxwm154 are due off and Ariva decide to wait till 58 before leaving causing other operators to run late
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 07:38:00 PM
Clearly from comments on here from people I suspect are connected with or are actually from arriva.
Umm, no. I just think it is a little naive of you to be giving so much away about your business, and what you think your competitors are doing, via a public forum.
The problem is that in situations like this, an internet forum containing representatives of the businesses involved just becomes the equivalent of the local corner shop in the 80's and 90's. I saw entire villages turned against operators back then because of local gossips.
However Steve, the problem for you is that unfortunately so many of the operations you have been associated with over the years have been utterly hopeless and indeed associated with exactly the sort of behaviour that people describe here, whether on this occasion true or not. Those businesses have also generally ended up either folding, being dealt with by the TC or just flitting butterfly like from one route to another with no regard for the 'loyal passengers' you allege you acquire.
You therefore can't act with horror and surprise that you get the treatment you do.
Personally, if I as a neutral witness any law breaking by an operator I report it straight to VOSA. Feedback and complaints is one thing, law breaking is another. In my experience an operator who partakes in that sort of behaviour won't change their spots because of the occasional report from the member of the public. They will only respond to enforcement. So VOSA is the way forward and that's what I recommend every time.
I take your point to a certain extent but claribels are still here & petes & bham coach were just bought by go ahead so not really cowboy operators that folded. Zaks only went when kevin died so there you have it. But these comments aren't aimed at me but an operator who has done nothing wrong. I can't do any better than state as I have before pm me with full details & I WILL investigate & take appropriate action.
What more can I do.
74 broken down just outside Huntington :(
Both of them were on the 11C today. The ALX200, and the X183 Dart. ALX looked like route training, was running with in between Kings Heath and Cotteridge on the C.
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Beaconside given service number 74 effective from 16-Nov-2015. To amend Timetable.
3. PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Beaconside given service number 74 effective from 26-Dec-2015. To amend Timetable.
Yj10mbf on 71e today
@Steveminor how's the 74 going these days?
All seems to have quiet on the Social / Select completion against Arriva of late.
@Steveminor thought you didn't like solos ;) is it a loan or has it been brought?
nice to meet you
@Steveminor (I was with the driver on Select 9)
As much as i hate solos, the 1 on 74 looked smart
Yeah nice to meet you too.
Yeah she looks smart. Shame she's a solo lol.
lol... has she replaced 1 of the SPD's?
Sort of the spds are returning to the 11 in birmingham
I wonder how today's arrival of the 74B has affected the 74 run by social travel
Bit worrying if they've downsized it from SPDs?
Saw an optare on there one day this week
Quote from: Ck on November 07, 2015, 09:21:54 PM
Saw an optare on there one day this week
Its been on the 11 most days this week
It's not so much downsizing as modernization the spds are getting old now & we recognise the need to provide more modern buses.
We simply couldn't find any spds on the market at the right age at the right price those we saw were well over market value & the optare was under market value.
It is a move that has been well received & appreciated by our passengers & that's what's important at the end of the day.
I didn't see the 355 74 yesterday I saw both arriva buses whilst travelling back
@Steveminor couldn't you buy a nx b10/b6?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 08, 2015, 06:48:18 PM
@Steveminor couldn't you buy a nx b10/b6?
Why would you buy a bus would cost more to modify so you could use it, that to actually buy in the first place, even in the unlikely event of NX selling a bus to a competitor
As I said it's about modernization an ex nxwm b6 or b10 is not really modernizing.
b6/b10 from natex wouldnt be ideal becsuse of DDA crap, its prob cheaper to buy a dda compliant bus
just spotted the MPD in Leamore heading towards Walsall, i had to look twice before seeing the 'not in service' lol i csn only assume she had finished on 74
Just seen the social travel bus miss out the hospital to beat the 74b
Nothing new there then
Please pm me with time registration etc as I have said before so I can check cctv etm GPS data etc & look into it.
abit like Arriva then....
PD1125565/1 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Road, Pine Square and Solihull, Touchwood Shopping Centre given service number 71E effective from 15-Jan-2016.
Quote from: 2206 on November 24, 2015, 05:19:03 PM
PD1125565/1 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Chelmsley Road, Pine Square and Solihull, Touchwood Shopping Centre given service number 71E effective from 15-Jan-2016.
Give in already to nx's increased frequency?
Not at all after all it would be too early to tell the real effect of nxs frequency increase. We have been reviewing our operation & our options for some time & for operational reasons we wanted to withdraw from the 71 a while back but had kept it running due to demand for a higher frequency on the coridoor on a Sunday. Now nx are prepared to do that then that allows us to remove our service as we had wanted to do.
Any other routes you plan on withdrawing? After all small operators change their routes every few months. The 74 next to be withdrawn?
Quote from: Steveminor on November 24, 2015, 06:43:16 PM
Not at all after all it would be too early to tell the real effect of nxs frequency increase. We have been reviewing our operation & our options for some time & for operational reasons we wanted to withdraw from the 71 a while back but had kept it running due to demand for a higher frequency on the coridoor on a Sunday. Now nx are prepared to do that then that allows us to remove our service as we had wanted to do.
Ah, fair enough. Thought it would be a bit early to tell!
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 24, 2015, 06:48:33 PM
Any other routes you plan on withdrawing? After all small operators change their routes every few months. The 74 next to be withdrawn?
The reason small operators tend to change routes frequently is simple. We don't have the large volume of o discs or buses as large operators so when buses are needed elsewhere or a commercial oportunity presents itself elsewhere we invariably have to remove buses from other routes.
That said arriva do a good job of altering routes very frequently and they're a large operator lol.
Other changes are in process but obviously I can't go into them until the official press release is made.
Quote from: Steveminor on November 24, 2015, 06:57:13 PM
The reason small operators tend to change routes frequently is simple. We don't have the large volume of o discs or buses as large operators so when buses are needed elsewhere or a commercial oportunity presents itself elsewhere we invariably have to remove buses from other routes.
That said arriva do a good job of altering routes very frequently and they're a large operator lol.
Other changes are in process but obviously I can't go into them until the official press release is made.
So your cancelling the 71E to invest onto 11? Is there that much of an opportunity on the 11?
Please wait until official press release until you make rash assumptions. All WILL become clear very very soon.
All I will say is its a very exciting time for social travel.
Sounds interesting. How long do we have to wait to find out the news??
Patients my pretties not long at all I promise.
Quote from: Steveminor on November 24, 2015, 07:23:53 PM
Patients my pretties not long at all I promise.
I know you run past at least two hospitals but.........
Lol @ tony
Social Travel
will be starting on the 74A from November 30th Monday - Friday only meaning
Friday 27th November 2015 will be the last day of the 11C it will be withdrawn.
http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/transport/publictransport/buses/Plan-your-journey/Forthcomingbusservice.aspx - on there Monday 30th
74A - Cannock - Huntington - Walton Upon Hill - Stafford - Stafford Hospital
One
journey in each direction (S74) will also serve Brocton village.
Quote from: Bryan on September 01, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
No doubt I will create some controversy with my thoughts, but why have Social Travel started on the 11C Outer Circle route?
1) National Express West Midlands have a daytime frequency of 7 or 8 minutes each way (on the 11A (anticlockwise) and 11C (clockwise)) during normal working hours (a route that takes about 2 1/2 hours in total). What do Social Travel offer, 8 journeys in one direction only on the 11C (all at irregular timings). How can people be expected to be loyal to a company that takes them 15 minutes to get to their destination one way, and 2 hours 15 minutes back? This assumes the service is still running late afternoon and at regular intervals.
2) What worries me also is that Social Travel fail to show any fleetnames on the vehicles I have seen on the 11C. Why not show them and promote the company?
3) A further concern is that if the management had looked into the service they are providing, they would have seen previous failures for obvious reasons of copycat operators.
My thoughts back on 1 September 2015
Quote from: 2206 on November 24, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
Social Travel
will be starting on the 74A from November 30th Monday - Friday only meaning
Friday 27th November 2015 will be the last day of the 11C it will be withdrawn.
...........
No surprise to me at all that the 11C is to be discontinued by Social Travel. Another independent to add to the list of failures on the Outer Circle route.
best of luck to social travel
Quote from: Bryan on November 25, 2015, 07:13:41 AM
My thoughts back on 1 September 2015
No surprise to me at all that the 11C is to be discontinued by Social Travel. Another independent to add to the list of failures on the Outer Circle route.
It wasn't a failure
Quote from: Steveminor on November 24, 2015, 06:57:13 PM
The reason small operators tend to change routes frequently is simple. We don't have the large volume of o discs or buses as large operators so when buses are needed elsewhere or a commercial oportunity presents itself elsewhere we invariably have to remove buses from other routes.
That said arriva do a good job of altering routes very frequently and they're a large operator lol.
Other changes are in process but obviously I can't go into them until the official press release is made.
@Bryan
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 24, 2015, 06:59:41 PM
So your cancelling the 71E to invest onto 11? Is there that much of an opportunity on the 11?
Doesn't appear they are investing on the 11
@Trident 4194 PD1125565/3 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD and DUDLEY ROAD, ROTTON PARK ROAD given service number 11C effective from 11-Jan-2016.
Don't come on the 246 either
If I had my bus company I would create my own route
What a blessing that they're coming off the Circle. Noticed your S reg Dart broken down in Stockland Green/Marsh Hill, on the 11A side.
Quote from: MW on November 25, 2015, 09:22:04 PM
What a blessing that they're coming off the Circle. Noticed your S reg Dart broken down in Stockland Green/Marsh Hill, on the 11A side.
Will the entire fleet be used on the 74/74A now then?
Quote from: Bob on November 25, 2015, 09:41:45 PM
Will the entire fleet be used on the 74/74A now then?
I don't know. Will it Bob? Will it?
Quote from: Bob on November 25, 2015, 09:41:45 PM
Will the entire fleet be used on the 74/74A now then?
2 buses on the 74
and two on the 74A/S74 ( serving Brocton Village )
Quote from: countryliner on November 27, 2015, 02:59:09 PM
I have just noticed that the new bus timetables for routes 74 / 74A / S74 are now available to view on the Traveline website.
Here is the link to the timetable
http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=twm&line=04074&sup=C&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=EFA02_44604617&lineVer=1&itdLPxx_spTr=1&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=SOC
However i have also noticed that on the Traveline website it says that the 74A and S74 routes has now been delayed until the 11th of January 2016. It says "The start date of the 74A and S74 journeys has been delayed until 11 Jan 16" and "The Traffic Commsioners have not accepted the late registration of this service so unfortunately the start of these Social Travel services via Walton, Brocton and Huntington will now be 11th January".
Here is ths link to the page that says this.
http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_ADDINFO_REQUEST?filterInfoID=2249_Staffordshire&itdLPxx_newIcsSite=true
Also how many buses do Social Travel have. I can only think of 3 at the moment (S301 SHB / S309 SHB / X183 CTG). But i am sure that they have some other buses as well.
the 74A and S74 have been delayed because the 11C is not going to be withdrawn until the 11th January
They also have
V564JBH
X512UAT
and 2 03 plate MPD
@countryliner
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2015, 04:54:19 PM
the 74A and S74 have been delayed because the 11C is not going to be withdrawn until the 11th January
They also have
V564JBH
X512UAT
and 2 03 plate MPD
@countryliner
When did the latter 3 vehicles enter the fleet?
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2015, 04:54:19 PM
the 74A and S74 have been delayed because the 11C is not going to be withdrawn until the 11th January
They also have
V564JBH
X512UAT
and 2 03 plate MPD
@countryliner
They have Optare Solo YJ10MBF
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on November 27, 2015, 05:05:07 PM
When did the latter 3 vehicles enter the fleet?
I have been told one 03 reg entered service on Wednesday as a replacement for a broken down SPD on the 11C
Quote from: Winston on November 27, 2015, 05:09:15 PM
They have Optare Solo YJ10MBF
They don't
one of the 03 reg MPD is the replacement for it
@Winston
Quote from: countryliner on November 27, 2015, 05:32:14 PM
@2206 - Thanks for the info. They have a nice fleet of buses. I always thought that V564 JBH was with Sunny Travel - is it just on loan or has it permanently moved to Social Travel. Do you know why YJ10 MBF left Social Travel. Also has X512 UAT been converted to single door or does it still have two doors. Finally could i ask what the registration numbers of the two 03 reg MPDs are. Thank you.
V564 JBH is permanently at Social and has been there for a couple of months usually on the 11C
and no i don't think X512 has been converted to a single door
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2015, 05:12:07 PM
They don't
one of the 03 reg MPD is the replacement for it
@Winston
Quote from: Steveminor on October 25, 2015, 10:49:34 AM
Yj10mbf on 71e today
Quote from: Steveminor on November 08, 2015, 08:41:06 AM
It's not so much downsizing as modernization the spds are getting old now & we recognise the need to provide more modern buses.
We simply couldn't find any spds on the market at the right age at the right price those we saw were well over market value & the optare was under market value.
It is a move that has been well received & appreciated by our passengers & that's what's important at the end of the day.
@2206 What's the above then?
Quote from: countryliner on November 27, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Also do Social Travel still have R823 HCD in their fleet.
no
Quote from: countryliner on November 27, 2015, 06:21:40 PM
@2206 - Thanks. When did R823 HCD leave Social Travel. It must have been very recently because i found a picture of it on flickr that was taken on the 5th of November 2015.
Here is the photo that i found.
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/60536068@N07/22774383556/in/search_QM_q_IS_R823HCD_AND_mt_IS_all_AND_w_IS_all_AND_s_IS_rec
Also i have just realised that after R823 HCD left Stagecoach in East Sussex - it has been with three different West Midlands bus operators - Discount Travel then Sunny Travel then Social Travel - and it has been painted in all 3 of these bus operators liveries.
I think that Discount Travel and Social Travel and Sunny Travel or all connected in some way or have the same owners.
Discount is now owned by Sunny. Social is owned by the brother of sunnys owner.
@Steveminor can correct if I'm wrong!
Quote from: countryliner on November 27, 2015, 06:21:40 PM
@2206 - Thanks. When did R823 HCD leave Social Travel. It must have been very recently because i found a picture of it on flickr that was taken on the 5th of November 2015.
Here is the photo that i found.
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/60536068@N07/22774383556/in/search_QM_q_IS_R823HCD_AND_mt_IS_all_AND_w_IS_all_AND_s_IS_rec
Also i have just realised that after R823 HCD left Stagecoach in East Sussex - it has been with three different West Midlands bus operators - Discount Travel then Sunny Travel then Social Travel - and it has been painted in all 3 of these bus operators liveries.
I think that Discount Travel and Social Travel and Sunny Travel or all connected in some way or have the same owners.
Yes, sometime in the last 2 weeks
It has never been painted into Social Travels livery it was in service in White while with Social
Social Travel are cancelling some saturday journeys on the 74 ive heard. Anyone know if this is true?
Quote from: countryliner on November 28, 2015, 04:25:23 AM
Also can i confirm are Social Travel withdrawing both the 11C and 71E bus routes.
As said above in this thread on 11/01/2016
Quote from: countryliner on November 28, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
@2206 - Thanks for the info. Also do you know what vehicles will be allocated to the new 74 / 74A / S74 routes.
all of them as they will be there only routes from 11/01/2016
Should be
MPD - 74A/S74
SPD - 74
Are the ex-Cardiff Darts DDA compliant though? There's no wheelchair ramp.
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on November 27, 2015, 05:05:07 PM
When did the latter 3 vehicles enter the fleet?
photo of X512 on my flicr site
KV03ZFR is one of the 03 reg MPD
It was on the 11 yeaterday
Yes it is from the same batch & sunny travel have also bought 2 mpds from abelio.
Quote from: countryliner on November 28, 2015, 10:38:41 PM...if they dont have ramps then they are definetly not DDA compliant...
I know this has been put around several sites, but to quell the rumour about ramps, it is not laid down in the PSV Accessibility Regulations that a ramp must be fitted to a bus for it to be compliant. A 'boarding device' is the term used, and that can be a wheelchair lift if appropriate. By that token, it would technically be possible to have a compliant high-floor Vario, as long as all the other regulations were satisfied, although the likelihood of an operator spending the money required to create such a bus is minimal.
Equally, it is not necessary to have a fold-out/extendable ramp within the step. A separate ramp stored elsewhere on the bus and placed into position by the driver when required is acceptable.
Quote from: barry619 on November 30, 2015, 08:16:45 AM
I know this has been put around several sites, but to quell the rumour about ramps, it is not laid down in the PSV Accessibility Regulations that a ramp must be fitted to a bus for it to be compliant. A 'boarding device' is the term used, and that can be a wheelchair lift if appropriate. By that token, it would technically be possible to have a compliant high-floor Vario, as long as all the other regulations were satisfied, although the likelihood of an operator spending the money required to create such a bus is minimal.
Several late Varios are DDA compliant. I believe the A&M (Flexibus) ones are
http://wmbusphotos.com/A&M/YN56NHM.html
These have rear ambulance doors with a wheelchair lift fitted
Quote from: Tony on November 30, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
Several late Varios are DDA compliant. I believe the A&M (Flexibus) ones are
http://wmbusphotos.com/A&M/YN56NHM.html
These have rear ambulance doors with a wheelchair lift fitted
Quite, that's what I was referring to, and I imagine that as a 56-plater it was built in PSVAR-compliant format. It would be possible to convert a non-compliant Vario on the same basis, although cost prohibitive I'd assume.
If you wanted to you could use a step entrance coach without any kind of lift on bus service as coaches dint have to be dda till 2020.
But then how do you legally define a coach .
I do have dvsa official response on definition of a coach but interested in what other people think.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 01, 2015, 09:14:47 PM
If you wanted to you could use a step entrance coach without any kind of lift on bus service as coaches dint have to be dda till 2020.
But then how do you legally define a coach .
I do have dvsa official response on definition of a coach but interested in what other people think.
A coach is a PCV that is not authorised to carry standing passengers
@Tony there is a bit more to it than that but in essence if those criteria are met then a metrobus could be used in service until 2020.
PD1125565/5 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Cannock Bus Station
Finish Point: Stafford Hospital
Via: Brocton, Walton on the Hill
Service Number: 74A
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 11-JAN-2016
Other Details: Monday to Friday
Quote from: Winston on December 02, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
PD1125565/5 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Cannock Bus Station
Finish Point: Stafford Hospital
Via: Brocton, Walton on the Hill
Service Number: 74A
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 11-JAN-2016
Other Details: Monday to Friday
I just wondered why Walton on the hill. Arriva gave this up due to lack of passengers
There's ways & means to make it commercially viable plus you have to remember that arrivas break even point would be higher than any smaller operator.
If it doesn't work, well at least we can put our hand on heart & say we tried.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 07, 2015, 08:34:01 PM
There's ways & means to make it commercially viable plus you have to remember that arrivas break even point would be higher than any smaller operator.
If it doesn't work, well at least we can put our hand on heart & say we tried.
Isn't it a bit dangerous putting all Social's 'eggs in one basket' with all revenues soon to come from variations of the 74?
Quote from: Winston on December 07, 2015, 08:46:54 PM
Isn't it a bit dangerous putting all Social's 'eggs in one basket' with all revenues soon to come from variations of the 74?
I would agree. My guess is in a few months time it will be a complete change of routes for Social yet again.
But if we can make it work & provide new links & links which have been lost isn't that worth the risk.
People have said on here about smaller operators not trying new routes and just cherry picking, well we're not we are trying to provide our own service.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 08, 2015, 01:10:17 AM
But if we can make it work & provide new links & links which have been lost isn't that worth the risk.
People have said on here about smaller operators not trying new routes and just cherry picking, well we're not we are trying to provide our own service.
If it's any consolation
@Steveminor I hope and I'm sure it will work out. Some late night punditry for predicting next years happenings there.
@Winston @LG @Bryan - I think that sometimes it is best for small independent bus operators to just concentrate on one route. Many small independent bus operators in the West Midlands just operate mainly on one route (such as Discount Travel / Hi Ride / Sandwell Travel / Social Travel / Sunny Travel / Thandi Travel / etc). If they just operate one route at a time then they will eventually be able to find which route is the most commercially viable and successful to operate. And also as
@Steveminor says if it does not work out then at least they tried it.
I think that Social Travel are trying their best - they have a smart livery / nice modern bus fleet / new routes / i believe that they charge cheaper fares - so hopefully they will be successful with their new 74 / 74A / S74 services. I wish them the best of luck.
@Steveminor - Do you have any details yet of the new buses (MPDs) registration numbers that you said were coming for Discount / Social / Sunny and have any of them entered service yet.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 08, 2015, 01:10:17 AM
But if we can make it work & provide new links & links which have been lost isn't that worth the risk.
People have said on here about smaller operators not trying new routes and just cherry picking, well we're not we are trying to provide our own service.
But if Arriva decided to flood the 74 corridor with extra buses offering special promotional fares that matched Social's (which it could do easily) and it tempted the majority of Social's passengers back on to Arriva buses, worst case scenario Social could find themselves with drastically reduced revenues & potentially having to find new work for the whole fleet & drivers.
No business should puts all its eggs in one basket. If something was to go wrong / change significantly, it's going to hurt.
Quote from: Winston on December 08, 2015, 04:44:08 PM
But if Arriva decided to flood the 74 corridor with extra buses offering special promotional fares that matched Social's (which it could do easily) and it tempted the majority of Social's passengers back on to Arriva buses, worst case scenario Social could find themselves with drastically reduced revenues & potentially having to find new work for the whole fleet & drivers.
No business should puts all its eggs in one basket. If something was to go wrong / change significantly, it's going to hurt.
I have to agree Winston. And like I said before I am a regular traveller on the 74 and 75 and it seems to be very reliant upon students. Come college breaks there are very few passengers around. Its very risky putting all your eggs in 1 basket
Passengers will lose out in the end, if social withdrew then arriva would reduce the frequency and put the fares back up...
But what I'd we weren't to take the risk what then fir the people of Brocton & walton on the hill. As I said yes it's a risk but we think it's a risk worth taking. Too many people have sat by watching encumbents cut routes & saying why doesn't someone step in & do something. We
Quote from: Bob on December 08, 2015, 06:26:35 PM
Passengers will lose out in the end, if social withdrew then arriva would reduce the frequency and put the fares back up...
Come January there'll be about five buses an hour between Cannock and Stafford no way is that sustainable for you guys or arriva surely?
at least 3 commanders on 74/75 today
@Winston @LG @Bob - Whilst it is always going to be a risk to start new services - if Social Travel never try then they will never know what will happen - yes there is a chance that Arriva could increase their services and lower their fares but then there is also a chance that Social Travel could actually become really successful on their new 74 / 74A / S74 services. So i think that we just need to give Social Travel a chance and wait and see what happens. As
@Steveminor said it is a risk that is worth taking. So hopefully it will work out and be successful.
Quote from: countryliner on December 09, 2015, 02:52:50 AM
@Winston @LG @Bob - Whilst it is always going to be a risk to start new services - if Social Travel never try then they will never know what will happen - yes there is a chance that Arriva could increase their services and lower their fares but then there is also a chance that Social Travel could actually become really successful on their new 74 / 74A / S74 services. So i think that we just need to give Social Travel a chance and wait and see what happens. As @Steveminor said it is a risk that is worth taking. So hopefully it will work out and be successful.
@countryliner - you're completely missing the point. It is not the risk of introducing a new service that I'm concerned about, it is the fact that 100% of Social's revenue will be derived from the 74 corridor & ultimately competing against Arriva. Me personally, I would split the revenue streams 50/50 and have another route elsewhere either competing against incumbent or own route, then one could help support the other if the situation changed. It's very risky putting all your eggs in one basket & Social have effectively gone 'all in' on the 74 corridor.
Quote from: Winston on December 09, 2015, 09:31:12 AM
@countryliner - you're completely missing the point. It is not the risk of introducing a new service that I'm concerned about, it is the fact that 100% of Social's revenue will be derived from the 74 corridor & ultimately competing against Arriva. Me personally, I would split the revenue streams 50/50 and have another route elsewhere either competing against incumbent or own route, then one could help support the other if the situation changed. It's very risky putting all your eggs in one basket & Social have effectively gone 'all in' on the 74 corridor.
I agree with Winston.
Also, taking into account the previous history of Social Travel, which routes have they been successful on and retained?
@Winston @Bryan - Yes i do see your point. But if Social Travel run their new enhanced 74 / 74A / S74 services as well as another route as well then it will of course cost more to operate - they would need more vehicles / more drivers / etc - and it might therefore not be commercialy viable to operate both. Also i presume that the Discount Travel 966 and the Sunny Travel 71 could help support Social Travel if the 74 / 74A / S74 dont go as well as they would like it to as i believe that all 3 companies are closely related (i think that they are owned by the same people - i am sure that
@Steveminor will know more about this). And if their new 74 / 74A / S74 services dont work out then i am sure that Social Travel can find another route to operate instead.
Quote from: countryliner on December 09, 2015, 03:04:30 PM
@Winston @Bryan - Yes i do see your point. But if Social Travel run their new enhanced 74 / 74A / S74 services as well as another route as well then it will of course cost more to operate - they would need more vehicles / more drivers / etc - and it might therefore not be commercialy viable to operate both. Also i presume that the Discount Travel 966 and the Sunny Travel 71 could help support Social Travel if the 74 / 74A / S74 dont go as well as they would like it to as i believe that all 3 companies are closely related (i think that they are owned by the same people - i am sure that @Steveminor will know more about this). And if their new 74 / 74A / S74 services dont work out then i am sure that Social Travel can find another route to operate instead.
@countryliner If you read previous posts, you would be aware that the three companies are owned by three brother and are separate from each others businesses, I remember
@Steveminor saying that each sale of a vehicle between the companies are a legitimate purchase, not a trade. Therefore, the three companies are more friends than allies. They don't work together as they are all on completely separate routes. Unless I have read wrong somewhere perhaps...
Yes adam you are correct although they are related all three companies are run separate from each other.
However it's not just bus companies that the brothers own they also own other business's, so they are not solely reliant on the income the buses generate..
The only route social travel have come off was the 97.
Yes we have now withdrawn the 11 & 71. The 71 for operational reasons the 11 because we want to provide our own service.
yes we could have just altered the 74 but that is doing fine & remember the rule if it ain't broken don't try & fix it.
I do wonder though if we had just copied another route how many people would have accused us of just poaching off others & not having our own imagination with routes lol
Quote from: Steveminor on December 09, 2015, 05:46:22 PM
I do wonder though if we had just copied another route how many people would have accused us of just poaching off others & not having our own imagination with routes lol
And was the 11C Outer Circle that Social Travel has now ceased working upon not such a route?
Quote from: Bryan on December 09, 2015, 07:11:57 PM
And was the 11C Outer Circle that Social Travel has now ceased working upon not such a route?
Its still operating till January they were on there today. I think 564 was one of the ones on there
@Bryan The 74A has not started yet either and will not start until January.
Carrying fresh air????
Quote from: Trident 4194 on December 09, 2015, 07:27:31 PM
Carrying fresh air????
No
A couple of passengers on it - around 10
Quote from: 2206 on December 09, 2015, 07:31:26 PM
No
A couple of passengers on it - around 10
Great loading
Quote from: 2206 on December 09, 2015, 07:31:26 PM
No
A couple of passengers on it - around 10
I hate to say it, but is that good?
@Bryan @Trident 4194 @2206 - I think that Social Travel could probably be quite successful on the 11C if they operated it in both directions as the 11A / 11C and operated it at least hourly in each direction. But then if they did this it would require at least 6 buses in total.
@Steveminor - So are Discount Travel / Social Travel / Sunny Travel all based at the same depot or do they all have their own depots.
Quote from: countryliner on December 10, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
@Bryan @Trident 4194 @2206 - I think that Social Travel could probably be quite successful on the 11C if they operated it in both directions as the 11A / 11C and operated it at least hourly in each direction. But then if they did this it would require at least 6 buses in total.
@Steveminor - So are Discount Travel / Social Travel / Sunny Travel all based at the same depot or do they all have their own depots.
@countryliner if you look at the top of the fleet lists of Discount Travel, Social Travel & Sunny Travel. They are all based in different places as you will find out. Try and see if you can figure out the answer to your question first before asking it as it clogs up the threads.
Hope you understand where I am coming from.
Links:
http://wmbusphotos.com/Discount/fleetlist.html
http://wmbusphotos.com/Social/fleetlist.html
http://wmbusphotos.com/Sunny/fleetlist.html
Quote from: countryliner on December 10, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
@Bryan @Trident 4194 @2206 - I think that Social Travel could probably be quite successful on the 11C if they operated it in both directions as the 11A / 11C and operated it at least hourly in each direction. But then if they did this it would require at least 6 buses in total.
Countryliner, as I think you don't live in the area I fail to see how you consider that Social Travel could have been successful running on the 11A and 11C on an hourly frequency.
Passengers are not going to wait for an hourly frequency service rather than going on the 8 minute frequency of NXWM.
Furthermore, as I have mentioned before, Social Travel don't encourage customer loyalty as they can't be bothered to put fleetnames on their vehicles.
@Adam 404 - Ok. Thanks for the info. However i did not realise that the depots were displayed at the top of the fleet list pages so i was only asking to find out as i did not know this. I apologise for any inconvience that this has caused but i was only asking a question.
@Bryan - Whilst i dont live in the West Midlands i do visit the area very regularly - about a couple times a month - and i know the area fairly well. I think that plenty of passengers will be happy to wait for an hourly service if it has advantages such as cheaper fares / gives change / better customer service / friendy drivers - and i definetly think their are many passengers that will be happy to wait if it means that they can save money. An hourly service is very frequent and convient - passengers just have to make sure that they check the timetables before they travel. As for your point about Social Travel not having fleetnames - well whether or not a bus operator has fleetnames on their buses does not say anything about the bus operator. As i have said in the past their are many good operators who dont carry fleetnames on their buses whilst their are also many poor operators who do carry fleetnames. There are much more important things for bus operators to focus on than having fleetnames. And all buses have legal lettering on them which passengers can always look at. Finally i will say that i have used Social Travel quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands and i have never had any problems with the service.
Quote from: countryliner on December 10, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
@Adam 404 - Ok. Thanks for the info. However i did not realise that the depots were displayed at the top of the fleet list pages so i was only asking to find out as i did not know this. I apologise for any inconvience that this has caused but i was only asking a question.
@Bryan - Whilst i dont live in the West Midlands i do visit the area very regularly - about a couple times a month - and i know the area fairly well. I think that plenty of passengers will be happy to wait for an hourly service if it has advantages such as cheaper fares / gives change / better customer service / friendy drivers - and i definetly think their are many passengers that will be happy to wait if it means that they can save money. An hourly service is very frequent and convient - passengers just have to make sure that they check the timetables before they travel. As for your point about Social Travel not having fleetnames - well whether or not a bus operator has fleetnames on their buses does not say anything about the bus operator. As i have said in the past their are many good operators who dont carry fleetnames on their buses whilst their are also many poor operators who do carry fleetnames. There are much more important things for bus operators to focus on than having fleetnames. And all buses have legal lettering on them which passengers can always look at. Finally i will say that i have used Social Travel quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands and i have never had any problems with the service.
There was NO customer loyalty on the 11 remember they also ran only in one direction so you couldn't catch them home anyway
With all due respect Tony how would you know if we have any customer loyalty or not. As it happens we do have some passengers who will wait for us.
Quote from: countryliner on December 10, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
An hourly service is very frequent and convient - passengers just have to make sure that they check the timetables before they travel.
That may be true if you live out in the sticks in the middle of nowhere, but as stated already, NX operate the 11A/C every 8 minutes during the day., so why wait another hour for the next Social Travel (or whichever other operator), if there'll be another bus in a few minutes?
Quote from: Steveminor on December 10, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
With all due respect Tony how would you know if we have any customer loyalty or not. As it happens we do have some passengers who will wait for us.
With respect not many, otherwise you would stay on a route for longer than a few months.
@Bryan the 11 is doing OK but as has been said before we are coming off solely to try & provide a service for Brocton & Walton on the hill
We consider that a priority now over a route that is already well served.
Yeah it's a risk but we're doing it for all the right reasons.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 10, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
With all due respect Tony how would you know if we have any customer loyalty or not. As it happens we do have some passengers who will wait for us.
You are having a laugh aren't you?
I sit there watching the 11 all day on CCTV almost every day as part of my job along with lots of other CCTV
I know both companies buses get stuck in traffic and can regularly be 30-40 minutes late. This is not a knock at the operation, just a fact of life. Nobody is going to wait for a bus that may or may not be there on time through no fault of the operator when others, which they can always catch as no-one can have a return/day ticket etc arrive at the stop.
Your buses also do not show real time, so when there are delays no-one would even know how long they had to wait.
I have never seen anybody wait for a Social bus
Quote from: countryliner on December 10, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
..... An hourly service is very frequent and convient - passengers just have to make sure that they check the timetables before they travel....
Wait.... whut?
Hourly might be frequent and convenient in the countryside, but mate this is the second city we're talking about
Also, contradiction much? If it were frequent then people won't have to check a timetable first
@Tony - I am sure that there are definetly some passengers who will wait for the Social Travel buses as
@Steveminor has confirmed - and for example i am one of the passengers who will happily wait - whenever i have had to use the service i have always planned it and waited for the Social Travel 11C instead of the National Express 11A / 11C routes. As i mentioned in my previous posts the Social Travel service has many advantages over the National Express service - the only disadvantage is that it does not run as frequently - but other than that there are far more advantages. So Social Travel do actually have quite a few loyal customers (including myself).
@Stu @Kevin - An hourly frequency is not really that inconvient - whilst you will probably not be able to turn up at a bus stop without knowing the times - you can easily and simply look at a timetable and find out the times of the service. As i have mentioned before the Social Travel service has many advantages so this will encourage people to wait for the service.
I will always happily wait for a service provided by a locsl small independent bus operator and i realise that whilst not everyone will want to wait there are quite a few people that will be more than happy to wait.
Also as
@Steveminor has said the 11C is finishing so that Social Travel can provide their new enhanced services on the 74 / 74A / S74 routes not because the 11C has been unsuccessful.
Literally never seen someone let the NXWM buses go past, unless full to the brim or there's another NXWM 11 behind.
Quote from: countryliner on December 11, 2015, 01:10:44 AM
@Tony - I am sure that there are definetly some passengers who will wait for the Social Travel buses as @Steveminor has confirmed - and for example i am one of the passengers who will happily wait - whenever i have had to use the service i have always planned it and waited for the Social Travel 11C instead of the National Express 11A / 11C routes. As i mentioned in my previous posts the Social Travel service has many advantages over the National Express service - the only disadvantage is that it does not run as frequently - but other than that there are far more advantages. So Social Travel do actually have quite a few loyal customers (including myself).
@Stu @Kevin - An hourly frequency is not really that inconvient - whilst you will probably not be able to turn up at a bus stop without knowing the times - you can easily and simply look at a timetable and find out the times of the service. As i have mentioned before the Social Travel service has many advantages so this will encourage people to wait for the service.
Apart from your statement that you would wait for a Social Travel bus, the rest of your post is complete rubbish. It is clear from your comments that you don't actually know anything about the 11.
I am not saying Social or any other operator that ran on there wouldn't neccessarily do well on there, but the nature of the routes means even an operator with the best intentions in the world struggles to run to a timetable on there unless they timed their buses so slow that they could cover all eventualities. As Social haven't got real time equipment fitted no prospective passenger will know where their buses are unless they could see them and people who actually want to get somewhere, as opposed to bus nuts, would not, and do not wait for them.
The only other way to get any loyalty is to offer multi journey tickets, but when you are only running in one direction you cannot even offer returns.
I do not dispute that small operators can get brand loyalty, Claribels have it on the 94, and I have no doubt Social's sister company may have some on the 71 or 966.
As I type this the 11C is actually having a reasonable morning peak with the latest running being 16 minutes most buses only about 4 minutes late, so Social are no doubt running on time, but today is the exception
Quote from: Steveminor on December 10, 2015, 08:42:02 PM
@Bryan the 11 is doing OK but as has been said before we are coming off solely to try & provide a service for Brocton & Walton on the hill
We consider that a priority now over a route that is already well served.
Yeah it's a risk but we're doing it for all the right reasons.
Brocton and walton on the hill where passengers are few and far between
Quote from: countryliner on December 11, 2015, 01:10:44 AMAs i mentioned in my previous posts the Social Travel service has many advantages over the National Express service...
Please tell is what they are, because I'm not seeing any.
@Tony - Yes i do see your point however what i am saying is that i am sure that there are a few other passengers other than myself that will wait for the Social Travel 11C service - there might not be very many - but i am sure that there are a few. I believe that
@Steveminor confirmed this in one of his previous posts. As for the real time and tracking - there is still a very large amount of bus operators in the UK that do not yet have any real time or tracking and most passengers manage fine - so i do not think that this is much of a problem.
@MW - The 11C is a very long and busy route so whilst you might have never seen any passengers wait for the Social Travel 11C - it does not mean that there are not any people who do.
@LG - Well i think that it is good that Social Travel are trying to provide a service for Brocton and for Walton On The Hill. You never know - the service may turn out to be very successful - and if you never try then you will never know.
@barry619 - The advantages of the Social Travel 11C service are cheaper fares / gives change / better customer service / freindly drivers / etc. I am sure that many passengers will apreciate these advantages.
Quote from: countryliner on December 12, 2015, 05:00:03 AM
@barry619 - The advantages of the Social Travel 11C service are cheaper fares / gives change / better customer service / freindly drivers / etc. I am sure that many passengers will apreciate these advantages.
Half of those are either not true or aren't really an advantage
@WN - Well personally in my opinion i see all of these things as advantages. I know that some people on this forum might not agree but this is just my own opinion.
Only one bus on the 74 today
Quote from: ntw456 on December 22, 2015, 08:56:29 AM
Only one bus on the 74 today
That's a bit bad! How many should there be?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on December 22, 2015, 09:02:19 AM
That's a bit bad! How many should there be?
Two as its an hourly service
Only one again today after a breakdown the driver seemed a bit embarrassed so he went and parked up by kwik fit on the walsall road
One of socials darts in a nasty accident on the 74 today
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/12/24/pictured-serious-smash-closes-cannock-road/cannock-rd2/
Looks like diamond livery ?
Quote from: Jaysnerz007 on December 24, 2015, 03:01:48 PM
Looks like diamond livery ?
It's their most recent purchase from Abelio London and Surrey.
It was bus zfr which looks to be a write off. Whilst the investigation is still proceeding I can't say much. What I can say is that all concealed are safe & escaped with minor injuries. The police have said 100% our driver was not at fault & it is a miracle of christmas that noone was seriously injured.
I should like to thank all those from select central buses & arriva for their concern & your thoughts have been passed on to our driver who would like to thank you all for your thoughts.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 24, 2015, 07:42:27 PM
It was bus zfr which looks to be a write off. Whilst the investigation is still proceeding I can't say much. What I can say is that all concealed are safe & escaped with minor injuries. The police have said 100% our driver was not at fault & it is a miracle of christmas that noone was seriously injured.
I should like to thank all those from select central buses & arriva for their concern & your thoughts have been passed on to our driver who would like to thank you all for your thoughts.
It is good that no one was hurt! Especially this close to Christmas. It is a shame that one of
@Steveminor 's vehicles are practically destroyed. Will Social be drafting in a replacement?
That will be in the hands of the insurance companies now but almost certainly what & when as I say is in the hands of the insurance companies. An accident like this is awful at any time but on Christmas Eve especially so.
Hope the driver makes a full recovery
@Steveminor
Hope the driver is OK Steve minor. Bad luck whatever day it happens but Christmas eve ouch. Hope you get sorted quickly
@Steveminor - That is a shame about the accident that KV03 ZFR had especially as it was on Christmas Eve. Although that is good to hear that nobody was seriously injured. I hope that the Social Travel driver and everyone involved is ok. Also KV03 ZFR is the newest bus that Social Travel have (although i think that they have another 03 reg MPD but i do not know the registration number) so it is a shame for it to have been involved in an accident. It will be interesting to see if Social Travel get any replacement vehicles - although they might not need a replacement as from 11/01/2015 they will only have a PVR of 4 - and i believe that they already have 6 other vehicles in service.
Only one bus on 74 again
@ntw456 - I suppose that one of the buses could have broken down or not be available to use. Do you know if this has been all day or just for part of the day.
Quote from: countryliner on December 31, 2015, 05:57:26 PM
@ntw456 - I suppose that one of the buses could have broken down or not be available to use. Do you know if this has been all day or just for part of the day.
All day
@countryliner
@ntw456 - Ok. Thanks for the info. Just out of interest do you know what the one bus that was on the 74 today was.
Quote from: countryliner on December 31, 2015, 06:22:27 PM
@ntw456 - Ok. Thanks for the info. Just out of interest do you know what the one bus that was on the 74 today was.
It was the x reg
@countryliner
@ntw456 - Thank you. But do you mean X183 CTG or X512 UAT as they are both X reg.
Quote from: countryliner on December 31, 2015, 07:17:49 PM
@ntw456 - Thank you. But do you mean X183 CTG or X512 UAT as they are both X reg.
I think it was ctg not too sure
@ntw456 - Ok. Thanks for the info.
Allover white Solo SR KX64AEO (I think, not easy to see from 3 floors up from a distance!) on the 74, is this on loan to cover the damaged MPD?
Its probably an insurance loan vehicle
@Cheese @LG - Thanks for the info. That is interesting to hear that Social Travel now have KX64 AEO (i am sure that
@Steveminor can confirm the registration number of this vehicle). I wonder if this is a permanent replacement or just a temporary replacement while KV03 ZFR gets repaired.
Yes I believe that is the reg I've been upto my eyes with different regs the past few weeks & my memory isn't what it used to be lol.
She is an insurance replacement for zfr but we are unsure yet as to whether she will become a permanent fixture with social travel. It's a very nice bus but we don't like optare & trust the solo Sr even less so the jury is still out on that one.
Dose anyone know how much Socials single fares are now?
Depends on which route?
£1.90 short hop £2.30 max nxwm passes 60p
@Steveminor - Thanks for the info. Will KX64 AEO be painted in to Social Travel livery or will it be kept in allover white. So do you know yet what is going to happen to KV03 ZFR (which was involved in the accident). Will it get written off and scrapped or will it get repaired. Also do you have a list of fares or some faretables for Discount Travel / Social Travel / Sunny Travel or do you publish these online anywhere. Thank you.
@2206 - Also if you are interested i believe that Social Travel (as well as Discount Travel and Sunny Travel) also accept Swift Card Smartcards.
It's yer to be decided if we want to keep the optare yet so no she won't be painted yet plus we are awaiting the insurance decision on zfr.
Re fare triangles it would people virtually impossible to put post our fare triangles on here the format is not compatible
@Steveminor - Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see what happens with KV03 ZFR - hopefully it can get repaired - i am not sure how bad that the damage is. Also have S301 SHB and S309 SHB been converted to DDA compliant yet so that they can continue in service or have they now been withdrawn.
Y371 FJN was on the 11C today. It was in Acocks Green today, just after 08:50.
Quote from: countryliner on January 06, 2016, 01:24:40 PM
@Steveminor - Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see what happens with KV03 ZFR - hopefully it can get repaired - i am not sure how bad that the damage is. Also have S301 SHB and S309 SHB been converted to DDA compliant yet so that they can continue in service or have they now been withdrawn.
I don't think 301 has been in service for about a month now.
@2206 - Thanks for the info. Do you know if Y338 FJN has entered service yet or is it just Y371 FJN that has entered service so far. Also will S301 SHB and S309 SHB get converted to DDA compliant or have these vehicles been withdrawn.
Quote from: countryliner on January 06, 2016, 07:21:22 PM
@2206 - Thanks for the info. Do you know if Y338 FJN has entered service yet or is it just Y371 FJN that has entered service so far.
No idea.
@2206 - Ok. No worries. Thanks anyway.
No they are both withdrawn permanently.
@Steveminor - Thanks for the info.
If anyone on this forum does not know already tomorrow (Monday 11/1/2016) will be the first day of the new Social Travel routes 74 / 74A / S74 bus services (the 74 already operates but the 74A and S74 are new services).
The timetable for the Social Travel routes 74 / 74A / S74 bus services is available here.
http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=twm&line=04074&sup=C&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=EFA04_6162757&lineVer=1&itdLPxx_spTr=1&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=SOC
I would like to wish Social Travel the best of luck with their new route 74 / 74A / S74 bus services. I hope that they become successful and popular bus services.
I would of thought social travel would of ran in front of arriva or made it a 15 mins service
There's not even a timetable for the existing 74 at Cannock bus station let alone the new one! How are people supposed to even know about it. Running a service hoping passengers get on ad hoc can't be a good thing surely? Also why not promote yourselves a bit instead of running completely anonymous buses?
Quote from: Bob on January 10, 2016, 09:46:23 AM
...... Also why not promote yourselves a bit instead of running completely anonymous buses?
As someone else has said, the business is not out to provide a public service but just make money. Social Travels time operating the 11C Outer Circle proved this, as it was impossible to get a return journey.
I certainly wouldn't travel on a vehicle if I couldn't see a company name.
Quote from: Bryan on January 10, 2016, 12:54:46 PM
As someone else has said, the business is not out to provide a public service but just make money. Social Travels time operating the 11C Outer Circle proved this, as it was impossible to get a return journey.
I certainly wouldn't travel on a vehicle if I couldn't see a company name.
there are some firms without fleet names & some of them half the fleet has the fleet names
I will be interested to see how long Social Travel manage to run to this time table as they cant always run to the one they have at the minute
Why all this negativity?
Quote from: Bob on January 10, 2016, 09:46:23 AM
There's not even a timetable for the existing 74 at Cannock bus station let alone the new one! How are people supposed to even know about it. Running a service hoping passengers get on ad hoc can't be a good thing surely? Also why not promote yourselves a bit instead of running completely anonymous buses?
Quote from: Bryan on January 10, 2016, 12:54:46 PM
As someone else has said, the business is not out to provide a public service but just make money. Social Travels time operating the 11C Outer Circle proved this, as it was impossible to get a return journey.
I certainly wouldn't travel on a vehicle if I couldn't see a company name.
Quote from: LG on January 10, 2016, 04:07:40 PM
I will be interested to see how long Social Travel manage to run to this time table as they cant always run to the one they have at the minute
Surely testing the waters is part of any business growth. The omission of a fleet name is as soft as the change giving fiasco surely. I'm not naive, but it seems every operator gets flack on here deserved or undeserved. I haven't had an issue with Social so good luck to Steve and his team with their enhanced 74 service.
but any operator can struggle to keep to times, it could be traffic, road works etc it wouldnt just be 1 operator that fails to keep to time
as for no fleet names?
look at wardles how many arriva liveried buses were there but no name or going back a few years, choice purchased M456EDH in plain white and N472EHA in Arriva liverey and ran them like that before paint so IMO saying you wouldnt catch a bus because it has no company name is abit of a silly statement but hey each to their own, everyones entitled to an opinion
@Ashley 60171 @Busman Jamie - Yes i completely agree with both of you. There is definetly no need for people to be negative about the new services especially when they have not even started yet.
@Bryan - I do not see what the problem of not having fleet names on the bus is. You can not judge a bus operator from whether they have fleet names or not on their buses. I can think of over twenty bus operators in the UK off the top of my head that do not put fleet names on their buses. There are many good bus operators that do not have fleet names on their buses while there are also many poor bus operators that do have fleet names on their buses. Also you have to remember that the majority of non enthusiast bus passengers will not be mind what livery that the vehicles are in or whether or not they have fleet names. Most passengers will be more interested in getting to their destination and getting good value cheap bus fares.
@LG - I have always seen Social Travel running to their timetable. No bus operator is going to be able to run exactly to their timetables all of the time. But from what i have seen Social Travel seem to do a good job of running to their timetables.
@Bob - The timetables are available online for passengers to view.
@Solo1 - The Social Travel 74 / 74A / S74 will offer a combined frequency of every half hour.
I think that these services could become quite popular and successful. Also these additional services have not even started yet so i think that we should give Social Travel time and see how it goes before judging the service. I think that it is very good that Social Travel are trying out new bus services.
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 05:40:02 PM
@Bryan - I do not see what the problem of not having fleet names on the bus is. You can not judge a bus operator from whether they have fleet names or not on their buses. I can think of over twenty bus operators in the UK off the top of my head that do not put fleet names on their buses. There are many good bus operators that do not have fleet names on their buses while there are also many poor bus operators that do have fleet names on their buses. Also you have to remember that the majority of non enthusiast bus passengers will not be mind what livery that the vehicles are in or whether or not they have fleet names. Most passengers will be more interested in getting to their destination and getting good value cheap bus fares.
...But you can judge a bus operator from whether they give change or not on their buses!
How exactly?
@NXWM Spectra @Busman Jamie - Personally in my opinion i do not think that having a livery or having fleet names is going to benefit passengers where as giving change on all buses would definetly benefit passengers. Also personally in my opinion i do not think that not having a livery or fleet names is bad customer service where as not giving change is definetly very bad customer service.
ti wouldnt of said not giving change is bad customer service, however giving change proberbly is more favorable to passengers but then i guess operstors have their own reasons why they prefer the vaults on buses
@Busman Jamie - Yes i do see what you mean. Giving change is definetly better and more convienient and useful for passengers though.
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 05:40:02 PM
@Bryan - I do not see what the problem of not having fleet names on the bus is. You can not judge a bus operator from whether they have fleet names or not on their buses. I can think of over twenty bus operators in the UK off the top of my head that do not put fleet names on their buses. There are many good bus operators that do not have fleet names on their buses while there are also many poor bus operators that do have fleet names on their buses. Also you have to remember that the majority of non enthusiast bus passengers will not be mind what livery that the vehicles are in or whether or not they have fleet names. Most passengers will be more interested in getting to their destination and getting good value cheap bus fares.
I'm sorry but I need here to go again to explain basic details to countryliner:
A bus company needs to engage customer loyalty. Passengers need to know
which company they can relay on to get to and from their destination. Could they rely on the Social Travel 11C Outer Circle, answer
NO as no return journey was available.
Social Travel has not proved such a commitment yet and, if my opinion they were keen to do so, they would give a positive image with livery, fleetnames and service information.
They have a liverey? Only the solo to my knowledge that doesnt wear thr liverey
social Travel have a livery & never know they may have timetables on the buses on Monday or at least on window have a timetable to view . Do they still do the timetable books for Staffordshire areas
Quote from: Busman Jamie on January 10, 2016, 06:39:04 PM
They have a liverey? Only the solo to my knowledge that doesnt wear thr liverey
the solo is a loan bus while the dart is off the road road
@Bryan - As i said earlier i do not think that most non enthusuast bus passengers will mind if the bus has a livery or fleet names. They will care much more about gerting to their destination and getting good value cheap fares. If a passenger for any reason wants to know who is operating the bus service they can always look at the legal lettering before they board the bus. Also Social Travel do have a very smart nice livery applied to their buses. With the 11C passengers could still make their return journey by continuing around the circular route on the route 11C service. I think that Social Travel already give a very good and positive image to all of their customers.
@Busman Jamie @Solo1 - Yes they do indeed have a livery. Their Solo SR bus (KX64 AEO) has just not been repainted in to their livery because it is on loan to cover for KV03 ZFR which was involved in an accident. Also most bus operators (both large and small operators) do not paint buses that are on loan in to their livery.
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 06:48:51 PM
@Bryan - As i said earlier i do not think that most non enthusuast bus passengers will mind if the bus has a livery or fleet names. They will care much more about gerting to their destination and getting good value cheap fares. If a passenger for any reason wants to know who is operating the bus service they can always look at the legal lettering before they board the bus. Also Social Travel do have a very smart nice livery applied to their buses. With the 11C passengers could still make their return journey by continuing around the circular route on the route 11C service. I think that Social Travel already give a very good and positive image to all of their customers.
The 11C on average takes about 2 hours 20 minnutes. If somone caught the 11C for 20 minutes one way.
Who is going to sit on a bus for about two hours to make the return journey?
When they could make the retur journey by using the NX 11A for a shorter anount of time (20 minutes).
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 06:48:51 PM
@Bryan - As i said earlier i do not think that most non enthusuast bus passengers will mind if the bus has a livery or fleet names. They will care much more about gerting to their destination and getting good value cheap fares. If a passenger for any reason wants to know who is operating the bus service they can always look at the legal lettering before they board the bus. Also Social Travel do have a very smart nice livery applied to their buses. With the 11C passengers could still make their return journey by continuing around the circular route on the route 11C service. I think that Social Travel already give a very good and positive image to all of their customers.
@Busman Jamie @Solo1 - Yes they do indeed have a livery. Their Solo SR bus (KX64 AEO) has just not been repainted in to their livery because it is on loan to cover for KV03 ZFR which was involved in an accident. Also most bus operators (both large and small operators) do not paint buses that are on loan in to their livery.
countryliner, I've now read enough of your comments to submit a complaint to the group.
To get a return journey on the 11C Outer Circle, no one should have to travel on the full route of the journey.
As for passengers looking at the legal lettering before getting as to owns the bus with the legal lettering, I hate to say this but you are in cloud cuckoo land!
@2206 @Bryan - If they were travelling half way around the circle then it would take them the same amount of time to make both their outward and their return journeys by using the route 11C service. Also i do not see what is wrong with passengers looking at the legal lettering. Also
@Bryan if you do not like my comments you do not have to read or respond to them. I am just stating my views and opinions which i am entitled to do just like all other forum members are. As far as i am aware i have not broken any of the forum rules and regulations.
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 07:16:41 PM
@2206 @Bryan - If they were travelling half way around the circle then it would take them the same amount of time to make both their outward and their return journeys by using the route 11C service. Also i do not see what is wrong with passengers looking at the legal lettering. Also @Bryan if you do not like my comments you do not have to read or respond to them. I am just stating my views and opinions which i am entitled to do just like all other forum members are. As far as i am aware i have not broken any of the forum rules and regulations.
Have you ever used the 11 before? Most people don't go half way round. If they needed to its probably quicker to go through the City Centre anyway.
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 07:16:41 PM
@2206 @Bryan - If they were travelling half way around the circle then it would take them the same amount of time to make both their outward and their return journeys by using the route 11C service. Also i do not see what is wrong with passengers looking at the legal lettering. Also @Bryan if you do not like my comments you do not have to read or respond to them. I am just stating my views and opinions which i am entitled to do just like all other forum members are. As far as i am aware i have not broken any of the forum rules and regulations.
A simple final question, how many passengers would know how to look for the legal lettering on a bus, or would even be aware it existed?
Also, how many would travel would travel even around half away the route?
Most companies do online timetables? My point being if your in cannock or at the bus stops along the route and you see the Arriva 74 timetable you'd probably go with that and only get the social one if it came along. Who's gonna think oh no ill check when the other operator runs and mess about searching online for a timetable? It's a basic thing to expect a timetable to be at at least the bus station surely. A lot of the people who complained about no buses to Eaton on the hill were elderly, are they expected to whip out their I phones to check when their bus comes?
There have been occasions where Social have only managed to have one bus on there leading to a two hour frequency. Not many granted but it has happened allegedly going from previous comments on here.
If I was putting all my eggs in one basket, to coin a phrase, I'd be promoting it to death, especially up against a big company. Although arriva must be losing money running almost empty deckers on the 74 daily to a frequency that just isn't required. They've managed to really annoy Penkridge passengers who relied on the hospital/uni section of the 75 to get to hospital /work/study by their nuts decision to run empty 74s and terminate the 75 at gaol square
Quote from: countryliner on January 10, 2016, 07:16:41 PM
@2206 @Bryan - If they were travelling half way around the circle then it would take them the same amount of time to make both their outward and their return journeys by using the route 11C service. Also i do not see what is wrong with passengers looking at the legal lettering. Also @Bryan if you do not like my comments you do not have to read or respond to them. I am just stating my views and opinions which i am entitled to do just like all other forum members are. As far as i am aware i have not broken any of the forum rules and regulations.
You really haven't got a clue about West Midlands operations or what the general public see as quality have you
If these persistant same comments continue I will have no alternative than to suspend your access
Non enthusiats may want legals if they wanted to write a letter to the company if no phone numbers are available, remember they are small independants and may not have a customer service number where the bigger companies lije Natex or Arriva will also when they first started they had timetables available on the bus and had 1 in the bus shelter but as mentioned elsewhere on here they were removed like other operators info was
Re Legal lettering , fleetnames & what have you.
Surely this information needs to be available to the average punter as a matter of course.
What if there's an accident?
You need to know who operates what bus.
It ain't rocket science!
(Will have to come up to Cannock soon, to see what all the fuss is about with Social & Arriva on the 74!)
I agree but surely if the bus has legals (which i believe is a legal requirement) then the operators name will be there... i certainly wish Social luck with their new 74 service
@2206 - Some passengers will not mind going around the 11C for their return journey. Also some passengers might be going half way around the route as many people make all different journeys on the 11C route.
@Bryan - I am sure that many people will notice or be aware of the legal lettering on the bus. It is not hard to find especially as it is located near the doors when you are boarding or alighting the bus.
@Bob - Yes i do see what you mean. But i am sure that the regular passengers will know the bus times and many people may print off a copy of the bus timetable to keep with them. Also no bus operators are going to be able to operate all of their bus journeys all of the time. There is always going to be times when vehicles break down or are not available to use. This happens with the larger operators as well. From what i have seen though Social Travel always seem to run their services well and run it on time.
@Tony - I do not see why you have a problem with my posts. I am just simply stating my views and opinions. I am not trying to argue or be rude to anyone. I am just simply discussing things politely. Nobody on this forum is going to agree with everyone all of the time and i have my own views and opinions just like other members do as well. As far as i am aware i have not broken any of the forum rules and regulations but if i have please let me know. Also if there is a problem with my posts please tell me what it is and what you would like me to post and not to post in my forum postings in the future. Thank you.
@Westy - If a passenger wants or needs to know who is operating the bus they can just simply read the legal lettering on the side of the bus. Also they could ask the driver what company is operating the bus or the name of the bus operator might be printed on their bus ticket. Yes i would definetly recommend visiting the Cannock and Stafford areas to have a look at and take a ride on the new Social Travel route 74 / 74A / S74 bus services. It is certainly interesting for bus enthusiasts and Social Travel have a very nice and interesting bus fleet.
@Busman Jamie - Yes i agree with you. The legal lettering can be very useful for bus passengers especially as it contains details such as the name and address of the bus operator.
I would like to wish Social Travel good luck with their new route 74 / 74A / S74 bus services which start today. I hope that it goes really well. I can see these services becoming popular and it is fantastic that Social Travel are starting these new bus routes.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 04:05:54 AM
@2206 - Some passengers will not mind going around the 11C for their return journey. Also some passengers might be going half way around the route as many people make all different journeys on the 11C route.
If you are going to go half way round its quicker to get a bus into the city centre and a bus out.
Most passengers don't go half way round.
I don't think anyone would get on it for about 2 hours to make the nreturn journey. When if they used the NX 11A to make the return journey it would only take about 20 minutes.
If you think anyones going to sit on it for 2 hours when they could use the 11A, you obviously haven't used the 11 before.
@countryliner
@2206 - Yes i do see what you mean. However personally i would be happy to ride around the Social Travel 11C for both my outward and return journeys (and i have done so in the past). I am sure that some other passengers would be happy to do this because of the advantages of the Social Travel route 11C service.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 06:11:38 PM
@2206 - Yes i do see what you mean. However personally i would be happy to ride around the Social Travel 11C for both my outward and return journeys (and i have done so in the past). I am sure that some other passengers would be happy to do this because of the advantages of the Social Travel route 11C service.
Lol
@MW - Everyone has there own opinions and preferences. I much prefer travelling on the local small independent bus operators such as Social Travel rather then travelling on National Express because of the many advantages.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 06:11:38 PM
@2206 - Yes i do see what you mean. However personally i would be happy to ride around the Social Travel 11C for both my outward and return journeys (and i have done so in the past). I am sure that some other passengers would be happy to do this because of the advantages of the Social Travel route 11C service.
No they wouldn't. Now I hope you can see what I mean by you not knowing the West Midlands. The 11 is the most unpredictable route in Birmingham. This is not a slant on Social Travel, but no-on in their right mind would wait for an operator running an hourly service when the bus could be anything up to about 40 minutes late (again not knocking Social, NXWM buses on the route regularly get up to 40 min late as well) to make a journey that added to their journey to their destination would mean sitting on a bus for 150 minutes.
Very few passengers on the 11 make long journies anyway because it is normally quicker to go across City, so the thought of one of those very few people actually then deliberately waiting for a bus that might not even appear, letting buses of another operator go past them when they could get a bus on the other side of the road to their destination quicker, or go across city and get there quicker still is just fantasy.
I'm sure Steve will confirm that while it is possible some people would wait for a Social Travel bus, nobody other than a nut job would actually the carry on around to get home
Quote from: Tony on January 11, 2016, 06:19:51 PM
No they wouldn't. Now I hope you can see what I mean by you not knowing the West Midlands. The 11 is the most unpredictable route in Birmingham. This is not a slant on Social Travel, but no-on in their right mind would wait for an operator running an hourly service when the bus could be anything up to about 40 minutes late (again not knocking Social, NXWM buses on the route regularly get up to 40 min late as well) to make a journey that added to their journey to their destination would mean sitting on a bus for 150 minutes.
Very few passengers on the 11 make long journies anyway because it is normally quicker to go across City, so the thought of one of those very few people actually then deliberately waiting for a bus that might not even appear, letting buses of another operator go past them when they could get a bus on the other side of the road to their destination quicker, or go across city and get there quicker still is just fantasy.
I'm sure Steve will confirm that while it is possible some people would wait for a Social Travel bus, nobody other than a nut job would actually the carry on around to get home
I think I can vouch for the authenticity of Tony's comment here. Countryliner, you're hilarious. One might say, a hilarious fool, but one doesn't want to get banned from here.
@Tony - Yes i do indeed see your point. Whilst i do not live in the West Midlands i do visit the area very regularly and i know the area and the public transport systems very well. However what i was trying to say is that i am sure that there are a few other people other than myself who will use the Social Travel route 11C service for both their outward and return journeys. Also it might possibly be quicker for passengers who are travelling half way around the circle to use the 11C as Birmingham city centre can get quite congested with traffic and therefore delay their bus journey.
@MW - All that i am doing is stating my views and opinions and discussing various things just like all other forum members do. I do not see what is wrong with me doing that. Everyone on this forum is fully entitled to have their own views and opinions.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 06:31:41 PM
@Tony - Yes i do indeed see your point. Whilst i do not live in the West Midlands i do visit the area very regularly and i know the area and the public transport systems very well. However what i was trying to say is that i am sure that there are a few other people other than myself who will use the Social Travel route 11C service for both their outward and return journeys. Also it might possibly be quicker for passengers who are travelling half way around the circle to use the 11C as Birmingham city centre can get quite congested with traffic and therefore delay their bus journey.
@MW - All that i am doing is stating my views and opinions and discussing various things just like all other forum members do. I do not see what is wrong with me doing that. Everyone on this forum is fully entitled to have their own views and opinions.
Tony responded to your point and you've basically just repeated yourself to him.
Also, you're right, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and views. And so am I. You're hilarious.
As someone who has actually travelled the full length of the 11 route in one sitting (yes, I was bored one Saturday afternoon!), I have the following comments to make:
- most passengers I have observed do use the 11 for short journeys, after all it is a useful link between the main arterial routes in/out of Birmingham
- from Acocks Green, I often use the 11 to get to Kings Heath or Stechford, which takes me about 15 mins. There's NO way I'd go 'the long way' round just to get back home, which would take around 2 hours!
- granted, I only have an NX Faresaver monthly pass, but I assure you if I had an nBus pass, I'd get on the first bus that turned up, regardless of which operator it was, what livery they had, or whether they had fleetnames on the side. Because I would just want to get home, in the quickest time possible. And I'm pretty sure the vast majority of other passengers, like myself, would think and do the same too.
Anyway, once again, a thread has gotten off topic, so lets get back to discussing Social Travel, are they still on the 11 anyway?
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 06:31:41 PM
@Tony - Yes i do indeed see your point. Whilst i do not live in the West Midlands i do visit the area very regularly and i know the area and the public transport systems very well. However what i was trying to say is that i am sure that there are a few other people other than myself who will use the Social Travel route 11C service for both their outward and return journeys. Also it might possibly be quicker for passengers who are travelling half way around the circle to use the 11C as Birmingham city centre can get quite congested with traffic and therefore delay their bus journey.
@MW - All that i am doing is stating my views and opinions and discussing various things just like all other forum members do. I do not see what is wrong with me doing that. Everyone on this forum is fully entitled to have their own views and opinions.
While I am quite happy to accept your comments about you preferring the small operators, you could stand at any of the 150 odd bus stops on the 11C and ask every single prospective passenger what time the 11C was due and not one would know, and that is referring to either operator. The 11 is a route where people walk up to bus stops an hope they don't have to wait long.
NXWM have a team of people working on there adjusting buses both and making sure large gaps do not appear. A small operator doesn't have the luxury of putting another bus in a gap while an original runs across City to get back on time, which is one reason it is difficult to get any loyalty at all on the route. I have attached a screen print showing the NXWM buses fairly well spaced around at the moment, but that doesn't actually mean they are on time!
Quote from: Stu on January 11, 2016, 06:40:01 PM
As someone who has actually travelled the full length of the 11 route in one sitting (yes, I was bored one Saturday afternoon!), I have the following comments to make:
- most passengers I have observed do use the 11 for short journeys, after all it is a useful link between the main arterial routes in/out of Birmingham
- from Acocks Green, I often use the 11 to get to Kings Heath or Stechford, which takes me about 15 mins. There's NO way I'd go 'the long way' round just to get back home, which would take around 2 hours!
- granted, I only have an NX Faresaver monthly pass, but I assure you if I had an nBus pass, I'd get on the first bus that turned up, regardless of which operator it was, what livery they had, or whether they had fleetnames on the side. Because I would just want to get home, in the quickest time possible. And I'm pretty sure the vast majority of other passengers, like myself, would think and do the same too.
Anyway, once again, a thread has gotten off topic, so lets get back to discussing Social Travel, are they still on the 11 anyway?
Social Travels last day on the 11 was Friday.
@Stu
Quote from: 2206 on January 11, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
Social Travels last day on the 11 was Friday. @Stu
Well there you go, you'll be waiting a long time for their buses on the 11 then! ;)
@Tony - Yes i see what you mean. However i am sure that most passengers will keep a copy of the bus timetable with them especially if they travel in the early morning and late evening when the National Express routes 11A and 11C bus services are less frequent. I suppose that any long distance bus route will get delays due to traffic conditions. Thank you for posting that screenshot. Can i ask what website this bus tracking is on or is this some private software.
@MW - I was just responding to his post. I was not trying to repeat myself.
@Stu - On some bus routes in the West Midlands some people might choose to wait for a certain bus operator rather then just getting on the first bus that comes. If they have already have a bus pass then they might just get on the first bus that comes although a few people might still wait for a certain bus operator. However if they do not have a ticket already then they are probably much more likely to wait for the bus operator that charges cheaper fares. Also some people (like myself and other people as well) like to support their local small independent bus operators.
@2206 - So have Social Travel now stopped operating the route 71E service as well as the route 11C service.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 07:59:36 PM
@Tony - Yes i see what you mean. However i am sure that most passengers will keep a copy of the bus timetable with them especially if they travel in the early morning and late evening when the National Express routes 11A and 11C bus services are less frequent. I suppose that any long distance bus route will get delays due to traffic conditions. Thank you for posting that screenshot. Can i ask what website this bus tracking is on or is this some private software.
No, they don't, you will struggle to find a single person with an 11 timetable, let alone your most passengers. It might be different in deepest Surrey.
The 11 isn't just a long route it is a very unique route in not only being 25 miles long, it has no terminus. There is no other route anywhere in the country as long with the same charactoristics as the 11.
It is private software
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 07:59:36 PM
@2206 - So have Social Travel now stopped operating the route 71E service as well as the route 11C service.
Yes.
Quote from: Tony on January 11, 2016, 08:04:27 PM
No, they don't, you will struggle to find a single person with an 11 timetable, let alone your most passengers. It might be different in deepest Surrey.
The 11 isn't just a long route it is a very unique route in not only being 25 miles long, it has no terminus. There is no other route anywhere in the country as long with the same charactoristics as the 11.
It is private software
Just as an addition to your comments Tony, Social Travel didn't provide any early morning or late evening services on the 11C, something for countryliner to think about before going overboard praising small operators.
Quote from: countryliner on January 11, 2016, 07:59:36 PM
@Stu - On some bus routes in the West Midlands some people might choose to wait for a certain bus operator rather then just getting on the first bus that comes. If they have already have a bus pass then they might just get on the first bus that comes although a few people might still wait for a certain bus operator. However if they do not have a ticket already then they are probably much more likely to wait for the bus operator that charges cheaper fares. Also some people (like myself and other people as well) like to support their local small independent bus operators.
@2206 - So have Social Travel now stopped operating the route 71E service as well as the route 11C service.
"Some" or very few in the case of the West Midlands. As Tony has already stated
@countryliner , there is no customer loyalty on the 11. People who want to use Smaller Operators generally get an NBus so they can get whatever bus arrives.
@Tony - I am sure that some passengers will want to keep a copy of the timetable for the 11A and 11C with them to check journey times and work out what time that they have to leave to get somewhere by a certain time. There might be some people who just turn up at a bus stop without a bus timetable but i am sure that many people will still want to look at a bus timetable. Also although the 11A and 11C are circular routes they do still appear to have a terminus. On the Traveline website it states that the Social Travel route 11C terminus was "Rotton Park City Hospital Stop CL" while the National Express route 11A terminus is "Acocks Green Acocks Green Village Stop AM" and the National Express route 11C terminus is "Acocks Green Acocks Green Village Stop AN" so i presume that these are the start and finishing points of these routes.
@Bryan - Yes i realise that Social Travel did not provide an early morning or late evening service on their route 11C service. However the majority of passengers travel during the day time so the Social Travel route 11C service still would have been useful to the majority of passengers.
@Adam 404 - Many local small independent bus operators in the West Midlands do actually have a lot of customer loyalty. I am sure that Social Travel had some some customer loyalty on their route 11C service as well.
@2206 - Thank you very much for confirming. Much appreciated.
Country liner, there isn't a start and finish on the 11A/11C. Until very recently, I was a driver for the route. A terminus is the end of the route, I.e. Passengers are no longer on the bus etc. As this route is a circle (hence the term circular!), there isn't a start and end. For the purposes of a timetable, yes it starts with Acocks Green, but what would you propose? Traveline to draw a circle for you? You literally haven't got a clue, 100% completely and definitely haven't got a clue. And yes you are entitled to an opinion, but your view is complete and utter grade A rubbish. That's my opinion on your opinion before you get on your high horse and try to belittle us all again. Just jog on my friend.
@MW - Thanks for the info. I see what you mean. I do realise that it is a circular route but i was just wondering if it had an offical starting and finishing point. But yes i suppose that the timetables are not able to show it in any other way. Also i am thinking that there must be a start and finish point where drivers have their break or where vehicles go in to and come out of service.
Quote from: countryliner on January 12, 2016, 05:20:09 AM
@MW - Thanks for the info. I see what you mean. I do realise that it is a circular route but i was just wondering if it had an offical starting and finishing point. But yes i suppose that the timetables are not able to show it in any other way. Also i am thinking that there must be a start and finish point where drivers have their break or where vehicles go in to and come out of service.
Vehicles enter/finish service all across the route. Acocks Green, Yew Tree, Ward End, Erdington, Perry Barr, Bearwood (Sandon rd for 11C, Hagley rd for 11A), Selly Oak and Kings Heath.
There are a few minutes drop back in Acocks Green, Perry Barr and Bearwood for 11A, Selly Oak for 11C. There's no drivers breaks. Drivers change over when the route passes the bus garage.
So no, there isn't start and end point.
I strongly suggest you stop claiming or acting like the know all with these independents and worshipping them. You've probably used Social a handful of times, if that's even true. You're not from around here, and any information you claim to have, is from online sites from Traveline, which is well and good, but it doesn't reflect what happens out there in the real world.
Right! Can we all get back on topic, as Social no longer operate on the Outer Circle it's no longer relevant to this thread, Winston
I wonder how the changes on 74 are doing??its proberbly early to say as its only the second day, they should of done well yesterday, mate of mine said 3 deckers broke down on 74 :/
@Busman Jamie - Yes it will certainly be interesting to see how the Social Travel route 74 / 74A / S74 bus service are doing. It is indeed probably to early to say yet but i do hope that they are doing well. Hopefully more and more people will start to use the service.
The 74 routes situation can't be sustained indefinitely surely something has got to give?
i wish them the best of luck
Quote from: Bob on January 12, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
The 74 routes situation can't be sustained indefinitely surely something has got to give?
There are too many buses now on route 74, Arriva are much better placed to cope with not carrying many passengers.
Not sure about social travel I cant see it being viable in the long term by them calling in the dog in tree and walton on the hill will defer some passengers who are able to get a direct bus and the very few people in walton cant sustain a long term investment
@Bob @Busman Jamie @LG - It will be certainly be interesting to see what happens with the new Social Travel route 74 / 74A / S74 services. I think that it is great that they are trying these new routes. I can see these services becoming successful and i would also like to wish Social Travel the best of luck.
Quote from: countryliner on January 12, 2016, 06:49:42 PM
@Bob @Busman Jamie @LG - It will be certainly be interesting to see what happens with the new Social Travel route 74 / 74A / S74 services. I think that it is great that they are trying these new routes. I can see these services becoming successful and i would also like to wish Social Travel the best of luck.
They are not new routes though. They are routes which are currently operated by Arriva or have been in the past
@LG - Thanks for the info. Yes i realise that the 74 is an exisiting route that is operated by Arriva as well but i believe that the 74A and S74 are new routes (or have Arriva operated these in the past as well).
74A was done by Arriva before (short lived though!!) S74 i think is new
@Busman Jamie - Thanks for the info. Do you know when Arriva started and stopped operated the route 74A service.
bout 2 or 3 years back
@Busman Jamie - Thanks for the info.
Arriva 74A was a different route and completely unrelated to socials. It terminated in town centre & went a different route in town to the 74.
Yes that's correct bob the 74A of arrivas was basically a short working of the 74 to provide a 30 min frequency between stafford town centre and cannock. It didn't call in at the dog estate or walton on the hill
@Steveminor @Bob - Thanks for the info. That is interesting to hear. Also just out of interest can i ask what made Social Travel choose the "S74" number instead of something like "74B" for this service.
Arriva were using the 74b at the time & since its a shopper service for Brocton s for shopper
@Steveminor - Thanks for the info. I see why now. That makes sense.
Arrivas 74A flopped miserably lol
@Bob - Well hopefully the Social Travel route will be far more successful than the Arriva route was.
I dont know....If arriva couldn't get enough passengers to run three buses an hour from cannock to stafford. ..well there's now five....
@Bob - I suppose that we will have to wait and see what happens. I hope that more passengers start to find out about and use their new routes 74 / 74A / S74 services.
Yea cos the timetables are easy to find.....lol
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Beaconside given service number 74 effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/5 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Hospital given service number 74A effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/6 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Dudley Road, Rotton Park
Finish Point: Dudley Road/Bearwood
Via: Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service Number: 11C
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 07-MAR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Friday except public and bank holidays
Well that was short lived then.
Quote from: Winston on January 15, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Beaconside given service number 74 effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/5 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Hospital given service number 74A effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/6 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Dudley Road, Rotton Park
Finish Point: Dudley Road/Bearwood
Via: Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service Number: 11C
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 07-MAR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Friday except public and bank holidays
If I'd put money on how long they would last on the 74 and 74A, I would have said three or four months before submitting a cancellation notice, but this is ridiculous.
And now the're going to start again on the 11C !!!!!
I'm at a loss for words, other than to say the company certainly does not endear or deserve customer loyalty, or even deserve any customers at all!
Oh this is just gold :D :D :D .........
Eating my words for lunch lol.
Well what you want us to do continue sitting in ridiculous traffic & receiving bol&&$ing from the tc for running late whilst another operator continues to run unregistered services unchallenged it's an absolute joke
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Well what you want us to do continue sitting in ridiculous traffic & receiving bol&&$ing from the tc for running late whilst another operator continues to run unregistered services unchallenged it's an absolute joke
Based on your past moves, I highly doubt this is an accurate reflection of the truth.
Surely it would be a variation if that were the case?
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Well what you want us to do continue sitting in ridiculous traffic & receiving bol&&$ing from the tc for running late whilst another operator continues to run unregistered services unchallenged it's an absolute joke
Surely the route was tested out in advance in normal traffic before submitting the route application?
Quote from: Bryan on January 15, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
Surely the route was tested out in advance in normal traffic before submitting the route application?
I understand
@Steveminor 's decision but weren't Social already aware of this with the 74 already in operation before this. Or if this has just arised as a problem, surely there would be a better investigation on reasons why it might be happening adjusting the timetable where possible.
Is there a particular area where delays occur?
@Bryan is also correct that it should of been tested out beforehand.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Well what you want us to do continue sitting in ridiculous traffic & receiving bol&&$ing from the tc for running late whilst another operator continues to run unregistered services unchallenged it's an absolute joke
The traffic is only on for another two weeks
@Steveminor
Latest information from staffs council indicates there will be various roadworks until September of varying degrees. The latest roadworks were not schedule till 22nd January and based on previous roadworks these have caused a much worse delay.
I'm not prepared to comment any further as I do not have to explain any commercial decisions to people that just want to scoff at any action a company makes. If you don't use the service you really have no place to comment.
That is a shame that Social Travel are coming off the 74 / 74A / S74 but it is great to hear that they are coming back on to the 11C service. I think that
@Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel has done a good job trying out their new services but if it does not work out then it would not make sense to continue operating the service. It will be interesting to see if the timetable for the 11C is the same as before (2 vehicles) or if they will increase the frequency and use 4 vehicles. Also i dont think that everyone should be criticising Social Travel (especially as
@Steveminor has said many people who are criticising it have probably never used the service) as they have done a good job trying out the service and you are never going to know if a service will work out and be successful unless you try it.
Quote from: countryliner on January 15, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
That is a shame that Social Travel are coming off the 74 / 74A / S74 but it is great to hear that they are coming back on to the 11C service. I think that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel has done a good job trying out their new services but if it does not work out then it would not make sense to continue operating the service. It will be interesting to see if the timetable for the 11C is the same as before (2 vehicles) or if they will increase the frequency and use 4 vehicles. Also i dont think that everyone should be criticising Social Travel (especially as @Steveminor has said many people who are criticising it have probably never used the service) as they have done a good job trying out the service and you are never going to know if a service will work out and be successful unless you try it.
And they give change
Quote from: countryliner on January 15, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
That is a shame that Social Travel are coming off the 74 / 74A / S74 but it is great to hear that they are coming back on to the 11C service. I think that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel has done a good job trying out their new services but if it does not work out then it would not make sense to continue operating the service. It will be interesting to see if the timetable for the 11C is the same as before (2 vehicles) or if they will increase the frequency and use 4 vehicles. Also i dont think that everyone should be criticising Social Travel (especially as @Steveminor has said many people who are criticising it have probably never used the service) as they have done a good job trying out the service and you are never going to know if a service will work out and be successful unless you try it.
For five days?
It will be running for another 2 months & there are options to keep it running should it prove itself. But I have to look after the business & drivers in my care.
Keep the 74/a on cannock arriva should be able to keep changing the timetable due social changing g there's
To take on arriva and win I'd imagine you'd have to be a bigger operator. To be fair what will most likely happen now is the 74 will be cut back by arriva and "we've listened" fb posts up when the 75 goes back to the hospital. .....
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Well what you want us to do continue sitting in ridiculous traffic & receiving bol&&$ing from the tc for running late whilst another operator continues to run unregistered services unchallenged it's an absolute joke
So you are telling us that in the five minutes you have been running to Stafford, the TC's office has received a sufficient number of complaints to dispatch the bus service monitoring people, that they have reported their findings and the TC has acted upon them?
I think not. The only 'joke' is that ill-hidden and brazen attempts at poaching passengers are allowed to continue. Blaming everyone bar yourselves and making some pretty heavy accusations against Arriva hardly does you any favours too.
That said, maybe the bus service monitors turned out on the several occasions reported on here that you were only running half your services?
Will they use 2 buses or, 4 on the 11C this time?
I cannot believe that an operator considers delays caused by roadworks as a valid reason for cancelling a service. If all operators did this many bus routes would have been cancelled. I can understand a new timetable with extended running times or additional layover times or a revised routes. Let's hope Arriva don't follow! Steve, on behalf of Social Travel, has made much of restoring links by revising their 74 service and putting passenger needs first which they are entitled to do and is a move they should be proud of. What a huge disappointment and let down to those passengers who finally thought an operator was taking their needs seriously. Then, within a matter of days, all that goes out of the window when at the first sign of factors causing operational challenges they cancel the service. You make decisions like this and then wonder why people criticise the company and have difficulty taking them seriously.
So, back to the 11C, to a route they cancelled because it obviously wasn't working. Let's hope there's no major long-term roadworks on this route. How long will this latest back track last? Surely any customer loyalty you built up on the 11C has gone, back to square one.
If every time a challenge, beyond your controls, causes operational difficulty and challenges on a route you give up cease trading now, it goes with the territory!
Quote from: 2206 on January 15, 2016, 06:31:09 PM
Will they use 2 buses or, 4 on the 11C this time?
Perhaps if the whole fleet is used, buses could operate in both directions and actually provide a half-credible service that might be useful to somebody rather than a clear cherry-picking effort which wasn't important and now miraculously is again?
Quote from: countryliner on January 15, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
That is a shame that Social Travel are coming off the 74 / 74A / S74 but it is great to hear that they are coming back on to the 11C service. I think that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel has done a good job trying out their new services but if it does not work out then it would not make sense to continue operating the service. It will be interesting to see if the timetable for the 11C is the same as before (2 vehicles) or if they will increase the frequency and use 4 vehicles. Also i dont think that everyone should be criticising Social Travel (especially as @Steveminor has said many people who are criticising it have probably never used the service) as they have done a good job trying out the service and you are never going to know if a service will work out and be successful unless you try it.
@countryliner A couple of points to mention:
Hardly anyone had chance to try the services before notice was given to withdraw them! On what basis can you say the company did a good job in such a small period? (Did you try them?)
As for the 11C, how can any company be considered to be providing a good service working a route for a few months, then give it up, and then aim to start again a few months later. (And that is a route that Social Travel is going on yet again in one direction only, with no return journey available from the operator)
Please stop flooding the forum with comments about operators/routes you know little or nothing about.
Quote from: countryliner on January 15, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
That is a shame that Social Travel are coming off the 74 / 74A / S74 but it is great to hear that they are coming back on to the 11C service. I think that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel has done a good job trying out their new services but if it does not work out then it would not make sense to continue operating the service. It will be interesting to see if the timetable for the 11C is the same as before (2 vehicles) or if they will increase the frequency and use 4 vehicles. Also i dont think that everyone should be criticising Social Travel (especially as @Steveminor has said many people who are criticising it have probably never used the service) as they have done a good job trying out the service and you are never going to know if a service will work out and be successful unless you try it.
I don't get involved in the tit for tat stuff that goes on here but this is just crazy!!! Countryliner you have spent the last few weeks telling everyone how much this Cannock route was going to benefit passengers. Now you say it is ok to stop it after such a short time???? Do you actually work in the industry countryliner because I am very surprised with your comments if you do? Do you have any understanding of what a passenger actually expects of a bus service? How has this benefitted passengers in any way? Like wise even 4 buses on the 11C is still NOT a benefit for passengers, no one will wait for a bus that is every half an hour when an NXWM will be there in 10 mins.
As a (now suddenly relevant again) aside....
Has anyone tried competing on the 11 with am end to end "11E" service? Say Erdington to Acocks Green or something?
Quote from: Kevin on January 15, 2016, 07:29:07 PM
As a (now suddenly relevant again) aside....
Has anyone tried competing on the 11 with am end to end "11E" service? Say Erdington to Acocks Green or something?
But surely that couldn't work as there would be few if any passengers in the final 20% or more at each end of the route as nobody would get on it to have to get off again and get on another bus. That would mean only potential passengers for maybe 50% of the route.
Quote from: j789 on January 15, 2016, 07:32:57 PM
But surely that couldn't work as there would be few if any passengers in the final 20% or more at each end of the route as nobody would get on it to have to get off again and get on another bus. That would mean only potential passengers for maybe 50% of the route.
A lot of passengers on the 11 travel short distances as its quicker to use the 11 than go through the City Centre so, it could possibly work.
Quote from: Kevin on January 15, 2016, 07:29:07 PM
As a (now suddenly relevant again) aside....
Has anyone tried competing on the 11 with am end to end "11E" service? Say Erdington to Acocks Green or something?
Yes, Birmingham Motor Traction ran 11E Perry Barr (One Stop) to Acocks Green via Erdington, Yardley.
Birmingham Coach Company ran 11E Selly Oak - Perry Barr (I think) via Bearwood
One of the Thandi companies ran 11P Bearwood via 82 route to Summerfield Park then 11 route to Perry Barr (One Stop)
Good luck Antisocial Travel!
Am a bit surprised at
@Steveminor attitude to this.
Obviously cancelling the 74 after such a small amount of time was going to cause an outcry on here because it appears that the route simply hasn't been given a chance. It's another example of a service not being allowed to blossom, if you open a shop on the High Street, you don't close it a few days later because you have few customers. You give it a few weeks if not months. Sorry the traffic problems don't make sense with me because the tc would be aware of them as they would affect other operators and would make allowances for it.
And to reregister the 11 again to me is just plain daft, if Social were doing so well on there, why didn't they continue to operate it.
Why don't Social think up a route of there own which provides new links for customers that are at the moment not provided, instead of just running on ther operators routes?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 15, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
And to reregister the 11 again to me is just plain daft, if Social were doing so well on there, why didn't they continue to operate it.
It was said earlier on in this thread that they came of it because they wanted to provide there own service. (the 74A and S74)
Quote from: Steveminor on December 09, 2015, 05:44:55 PM
Yes adam you are correct although they are related all three companies are run separate from each other.
However it's not just bus companies that the brothers own they also own other business's, so they are not solely reliant on the income the buses generate..
The only route social travel have come off was the 97.
Yes we have now withdrawn the 11 & 71. The 71 for operational reasons the 11 because we want to provide our own service.
yes we could have just altered the 74 but that is doing fine & remember the rule if it ain't broken don't try & fix it.
The main problem here for Social Travel is that they picked a well established Arriva route. Also Arriva have stuck to their guns and have prepared timetables to cope with traffic delays.
Honestly though I dont believe the cancellation to be anything to do with traffic delays as I have witnessed first hand passengers are prefering to use Arriva
Where it comes from is arriva have decide to run shuttle service from stafford to the university leaving the 74 to only run a short route this is not a legal registration as the registration calls for a service to run from cannock to the university not to sit a bus at the college wait for social travel to turn up the run off & take the passengers whilst the main bus sits in gaol square collecting passengers waiting for social travel to turn up. The excuse is because of traffic! Well that is still not legal but we're getting it in the neck for NOT running an extra illegal bus. Well we don't have anymore o discs but this has held no water. One rule for one one rule for arriva. Add that to the fact that despite evidence to the tc arriva have continuously run off time & extra buses unchallenged whilst we get our ear bent for running 11 mins late a few times. Arriva have changed times with 2 weeks notice ( supposed to be a minimum of 3 weeks) whilst even with a letter of support from the council we can't start a desperately required service with less than 56 days notice. Plus the cancellation document was only posted yesterday afternoon and yet it's already been accepted this morning. Something smells rotten & I want no part of that.
Anyway I also have to consider my drivers who are unhappy at arriving back at the depot more than 2 hours late because of the rad ford bank traffic & I can't give them any assurances until after September. Well it's not one thing not two things but several things. I have to look after the best interests of the company & staff under my care. Not enthusiasts that may or may not want social to run a specific service.
Yes it's been a hard decision to make & has been made very quickly but let me ask you all, if you had a knife in your hand would you get it removed straight away or would you leave it there for a while incase the pain went away & it eventually got better.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
Where it comes from is arriva have decide to run shuttle service from stafford to the university leaving the 74 to only run a short route this is not a legal registration as the registration calls for a service to run from cannock to the university not to sit a bus at the college wait for social travel to turn up the run off & take the passengers whilst the main bus sits in gaol square collecting passengers waiting for social travel to turn up. The excuse is because of traffic! Well that is still not legal but we're getting it in the neck for NOT running an extra illegal bus. Well we don't have anymore o discs but this has held no water. One rule for one one rule for arriva. Add that to the fact that despite evidence to the tc arriva have continuously run off time & extra buses unchallenged whilst we get our ear bent for running 11 mins late a few times. Arriva have changed times with 2 weeks notice ( supposed to be a minimum of 3 weeks) whilst even with a letter of support from the council we can't start a desperately required service with less than 56 days notice. Plus the cancellation document was only posted yesterday afternoon and yet it's already been accepted this morning. Something smells rotten & I want no part of that.
Anyway I also have to consider my drivers who are unhappy at arriving back at the depot more than 2 hours late because of the rad ford bank traffic & I can't give them any assurances until after September. Well it's not one thing not two things but several things. I have to look after the best interests of the company & staff under my care. Not enthusiasts that may or may not want social to run a specific service.
Yes it's been a hard decision to make & has been made very quickly but let me ask you all, if you had a knife in your hand would you get it removed straight away or would you leave it there for a while incase the pain went away & it eventually got better.
Sounds ill-planned and ill-executed and not at all out of line with your previous endeavours and incarnations.
All respects you have no idea so don't comment
Besides look at my sunny travel & discount travel operations which have both increased age profile & now with dts increased licence capacity. So don't bring my personal competence into this.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
Besides look at my sunny travel & discount travel operations which have both increased age profile & now with dts increased licence capacity. So don't bring my personal competence into this.
Whatever next? An identity? Or perhaps something sustained and original?
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
Where it comes from is arriva have decide to run shuttle service from stafford to the university leaving the 74 to only run a short route this is not a legal registration as the registration calls for a service to run from cannock to the university not to sit a bus at the college wait for social travel to turn up the run off & take the passengers whilst the main bus sits in gaol square collecting passengers waiting for social travel to turn up. The excuse is because of traffic! Well that is still not legal but we're getting it in the neck for NOT running an extra illegal bus. Well we don't have anymore o discs but this has held no water. One rule for one one rule for arriva. Add that to the fact that despite evidence to the tc arriva have continuously run off time & extra buses unchallenged whilst we get our ear bent for running 11 mins late a few times. Arriva have changed times with 2 weeks notice ( supposed to be a minimum of 3 weeks) whilst even with a letter of support from the council we can't start a desperately required service with less than 56 days notice. Plus the cancellation document was only posted yesterday afternoon and yet it's already been accepted this morning. Something smells rotten & I want no part of that.
Anyway I also have to consider my drivers who are unhappy at arriving back at the depot more than 2 hours late because of the rad ford bank traffic & I can't give them any assurances until after September. Well it's not one thing not two things but several things. I have to look after the best interests of the company & staff under my care. Not enthusiasts that may or may not want social to run a specific service.
Yes it's been a hard decision to make & has been made very quickly but let me ask you all, if you had a knife in your hand would you get it removed straight away or would you leave it there for a while incase the pain went away & it eventually got better.
Are you suggesting that the TC is rigged
@Steveminor ? I agree that it does seem suspicious but it won't help you in future registration if you are throwing these accusations out... I hope that your old 11 customers, if there was any, rejoin Social Travel. But there is ofcourse no guarantee of customer loyalty on many routes.
@Steveminor has tried his best with the 74's and if it can't happen, that's the way it goes. It is also good to know of a Manager who has took Drivers into account unlike what rumours from Diamond which are flowing out at the moment...
Surely if Arriva were doing something illegal with running a shuttle the TC would be breathing down their necks too??
Only they continue to do this so obviously this is acceptable to the TC under these circumstances around the roadworks
..........] has tried his best with the 74's and if it can't happen, that's the way it goes. It is also good to know of a Manager who has took Drivers into account unlike what rumours from Diamond which are flowing out at the moment...
[/quote]
I agree that this is a good decision based on drivers feedback
Quote from: LG on January 15, 2016, 08:55:32 PM
..........] has tried his best with the 74's and if it can't happen, that's the way it goes. It is also good to know of a Manager who has took Drivers into account unlike what rumours from Diamond which are flowing out at the moment...
I agree that this is a good decision based on drivers feedback
Although surely an occupational hazard running a Stafford service out of a yard in Smethwick?
Good luck with redeployment of the moped too Steve.
Quote from: 646 on January 15, 2016, 08:57:03 PM
Although surely an occupational hazard running a Stafford service out of a yard in Smethwick?
Good luck with redeployment of the moped too Steve.
There is that issue as well, true
@646 regarding the moped well that's a personal issue please keep those out of this. Personal issues have nothing to do with these forums it's not supposed to be a personal attack on anyone individual & I would thank you to keep it that way.
Thank you for those of you who realise that I also have to consider well not only my drivers but mechanics. It really is a shame as we did really want our own route but we have to realise it wasn't meant to be. Not yet at any rate. Regarding accusations about the tc, well they will know exactly what has gone on as they have full evidence & it has been documented on cctv by ourselves & the authority so I really look forward to any comments they may have about our operations as I can provide full evidence to other bodies should I need to. As I have said there are another 2 months to run on the route yet & should things change there are opportunities & ways to keep the service alive. If I were arriva I certainly would keep watching my back as you HAVE messed with the wrong family here we do have the resorcez for a very very long sustainable battle should we choose, but in this instance at this moment we choose not to. We have proved with the sunny travel 71e we can take on 2 operators with a high frequency in a fair competitive environment long term & come out strong should we wish.
This is not the end to our families involvement in the staffordshire area.
If it seems like I'm ranting please forgive me it's my 40th birthday today & I am a little drunk. But sometimes when you're drunk you see some things more clearly.
Love to you all anyway though.
Quote from: 2206 on January 15, 2016, 06:31:09 PM
Will they use 2 buses or, 4 on the 11C this time?
Whatever they run on the 11C, they are not providing customers with a return journey!
Quote from: 646 on January 15, 2016, 08:49:01 PM
Whatever next? An identity? Or perhaps something sustained and original?
A great thought but I suspect very unlikely based upon past history.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 09:15:54 PM
@646 regarding the moped well that's a personal issue please keep those out of this. Personal issues have nothing to do with these forums it's not supposed to be a personal attack on anyone individual & I would thank you to keep it that way.
Thank you for those of you who realise that I also have to consider well not only my drivers but mechanics. It really is a shame as we did really want our own route but we have to realise it wasn't meant to be. Not yet at any rate. Regarding accusations about the tc, well they will know exactly what has gone on as they have full evidence & it has been documented on cctv by ourselves & the authority so I really look forward to any comments they may have about our operations as I can provide full evidence to other bodies should I need to. As I have said there are another 2 months to run on the route yet & should things change there are opportunities & ways to keep the service alive. If I were arriva I certainly would keep watching my back as you HAVE messed with the wrong family here we do have the resorcez for a very very long sustainable battle should we choose, but in this instance at this moment we choose not to. We have proved with the sunny travel 71e we can take on 2 operators with a high frequency in a fair competitive environment long term & come out strong should we wish.
This is not the end to our families involvement in the staffordshire area.
I feel that actions of this nature are damaging to the industry we work in and contribute significantly to its negative perception. The manner in which this small, seemingly anonymous company has jumped ship from one service to another and then back again is demonstrative of nothing other than flawed commercial instinct and shows no recognition of the fact that, whilst we operate in a deregulated environment and seek survival as a business, we are serving the general public.
Casting aside the fact that the Staffordshire episode too was ultimately a cherry-picking venture (mindful of the extremely short-lived variations recently), there is still no finesse or quality demonstrated. The service is operated with ropey, unnamed vehicles wearing an assortment of purple pyramids and balloon vinyl and no effort has been made to publicise the operation. The tactics engaged, though now perceived as a "personal issue", were dubious and at best utterly unprofessional - and again surely are contributing to a poor perception of this industry.
I strongly doubt the stated reasons for cancellation, though I respect that you do not have to publicise your reasons on an industry enthusiast's forum. However, to suggest that this is the case when on here alone there is suggestion that vehicles are regularly missing from the registered timetable is a little questionable.
And so resources are gathered up and are flitting back to something equally uninspiring, festering in the "gaps" left by a reputable operator - somewhat risibly given that Social will presumably be operating in one direction around a circular again.
I absolutely agree with
@646's post. It sums the whole thing up. These 'operators' that think that creaming off someone else's passengers represents some kind of service should be removed from the bus industry for good. They do nothing other than destabilise existing routes and there is no reason for their existence.
I also had a hearty chuckle at this Minor character's assertion that Arriva has picked on the wrong family(!). Are you for real? Who do you think you are, the mafia? Arriva measures its turnover in billions. It could crush Social Travel and the associated outfits with very little effort.
Stick to the lemonade in future, son.
To ask a simple question, where should Social Travel have moved onto instead of going back to the 11C?
Quote from: justlookingaround on January 16, 2016, 02:35:57 AM
To ask a simple question, where should Social Travel have moved onto instead of going back to the 11C?
I've suggested before that they could restart the 006 circular in Halesowen. A simple service which only requires one bus to provide a decent 30 minute frequency. If it took in the original route serving Quarry Lane, Uffmore Lane, Hayley Park Road, Mendip Road and Hambleton Road there are a lot of additional passengers they could pick up.
Hansons managed to successfully bring back the 004 so I see no reason why this might not work either.
Quote from: sonic84 on January 16, 2016, 11:20:47 AM
I've suggested before that they could restart the 006 circular in Halesowen. A simple service which only requires one bus to provide a decent 30 minute frequency. If it took in the original route serving Quarry Lane, Uffmore Lane, Hayley Park Road, Mendip Road and Hambleton Road there are a lot of additional passengers they could pick up.
Hansons managed to successfully bring back the 004 so I see no reason why this might not work either.
Very true, and not much dead mileage
Quote from: Trident 4194 on January 16, 2016, 01:10:47 PM
Very true, and not much dead mileage
@Trident 4194 its been mentioned on the Forum before that Green Bus tried it and withdrew it after a few months, if it was well used why isn't it still around today?
Quote from: sonic84 on February 28, 2015, 01:58:09 PM
The 006 only needs 1 bus to get a decent 30 minute frequency out of it.
Admitted Green Bus tried it and withdrew after a few months, but Ludlows ran it very successfully for a number of years and so with a bit of marketing a persistence I am sure it could be successful again.
Another idea could be running the 19 from Hayley Green to Birmingham. The people of Hayley Green really need a direct link into the city centre especially since the 192 was cut short, even if only a peak time. The AM journeys had a lot of regular passengers so I am sure as long as it is given time to build custom it could be successful too.
Quote from: 2206 on January 16, 2016, 02:32:45 PM
@Trident 4194 its been mentioned on the Forum before that Green Bus tried it and withdrew it after a few months, if it was well used why isn't it still around today?
The Green Bus only operated it during Mon -Fri shopping hours and missed out on am / pm peak traffic.
Quote from: Winston on January 16, 2016, 02:50:12 PM
The Green Bus only operated it during Mon -Fri shopping hours and missed out on am / pm peak traffic.
Is there much difference between the 006 and the 4H round Hayley Green?
It runs basically the opposite way to the 4H but it takes in more of the estates rather than the main roads.
Like mentioned green bus missed out the peak times which were very popular.
You could argue the 004 was withdrawn by Diamond but Hansons were able to make ago of it very successfully when they revived it.
Anyway just a suggestion
Quote from: sonic84 on January 16, 2016, 04:33:12 PM
It runs basically the opposite way to the 4H but it takes in more of the estates rather than the main roads.
Like mentioned green bus missed out the peak times which were very popular.
You could argue the 004 was withdrawn by Diamond but Hansons were able to make ago of it very successfully when they revived it.
Anyway just a suggestion
Taken Hansons 3, virtually 4 years to build it up into anything half decent though, even then loadings can look varied.
Has anyone else noticed that the small operators that tend to get respect and survive a long time, or get their owners a nice retirement lump sum by selling out while profitable are those that persist with a route, have an identity and try to offer something different?
Claribels - first route they registered was the 94 still on there 25 years later, initially ran with conductors, then allowed smoking when banned on TWM
Hansons - First registered local Stourbridge routes and still there 25 years later
North Birmingham - First registered on the 104X and still there when sold on as a going concern, offered Expressway services when TWM didn't
Decourcey - Still running services started 20 years ago
Now what happens to all those companies that flit about between toutes and cannot make their mind up?
Good points Tony, however I would like to add the following, if only to close this discussion and get the topic back to Social Travel related matters:
It seems to me that smaller operators are "damned if they do, damned if they don't".
NX are often criticised by some for having a virtual monopoly in the West Midlands, and there have been calls for them to be broken up (or even shutdown) in order to give other operators a chance, as there is seemingly no competition.
Then weirdly, if an operator starts operating on an NX route 'in competition', the other operator gets slammed for trying to 'cream off' passengers from the NX route in question. In my mind that is exactly how 'competition' is supposed to work!
Quote from: Stu on January 16, 2016, 07:32:17 PM
Good points Tony, however I would like to add the following, if only to close this discussion and get the topic back to Social Travel related matters:
It seems to me that smaller operators are "damned if they do, damned if they don't".
NX are often criticised by some for having a virtual monopoly in the West Midlands, and there have been calls for them to be broken up (or even shutdown) in order to give other operators a chance, as there is seemingly no competition.
Then weirdly, if an operator starts operating on an NX route 'in competition', the other operator gets slammed for trying to 'cream off' passengers from the NX route in question. In my mind that is exactly how 'competition' is supposed to work!
Central Buses go about it the correct way as far as I am concerned, although they obviously try to attract passengers off an existing service, they also offer something different as well as shown by their expre55 to see how competition should be done
Quote from: Tony on January 16, 2016, 07:36:22 PM
Central Buses go about it the correct way as far as I am concerned, although they obviously try to attract passengers off an existing service, they also offer something different as well as shown by their expre55 to see how competition should be done
Precisely, quality competition that grows a market, by forcing existing operator to up standards so passengers benefit all round and actually grows a market.
I guess though to get to the stage of offering that level of competition, you have to start out somehow, Ludlows and BCC's Nationals could look shabby before both went on to buy new and newer buses, Claribels were running old coaches at the start before they went for Excels and DAFs, Hansons had some pretty old buses as well, it's unlikely an operator could get the finance to start out with a bang at the beginning.
What all those operators did always have was a clear fleetname and a version of a livery, even if BCC's was variations and different versions of red.
Johnsons I'd add to that list, Birmingham Motor Traction and Zaks (in particular!) were good quality too, Pete's Travel stuck to core routes and had a livery and fleetname although I appreciate aspects of the operation seemed to lack quality at times.
There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who dislike the small independent bus operators and like to criticise them. Social Travel are a very good company - i have used their services quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands - i am always impressed and happy with their bus service. I can fully understand why Social Travel travel are going to come off the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services and go back on to the route 11C service. I am sure that
@Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel know what they are doing. It can take a while for a bus operator to find the right route for them and they have to try out different routes to see if they will work and be successful. Their sister companies Discount Travel (966) and Sunny Travel (71E) seem to be doing well on their routes. Also the 11C was only stopped to provide a service on the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services - not because it was unsuccesful. So i think that Social Travel might end up being very successful on the route 11C service.
Quote from: countryliner on January 17, 2016, 05:20:19 AM
There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who dislike the small independent bus operators and like to criticise them. Social Travel are a very good company - i have used their services quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands - i am always impressed and happy with their bus service. I can fully understand why Social Travel travel are going to come off the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services and go back on to the route 11C service. I am sure that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel know what they are doing. It can take a while for a bus operator to find the right route for them and they have to try out different routes to see if they will work and be successful. Their sister companies Discount Travel (966) and Sunny Travel (71E) seem to be doing well on their routes. Also the 11C was only stopped to provide a service on the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services - not because it was unsuccesful. So i think that Social Travel might end up being very successful on the route 11C service.
Oh no, here we go again!
There are
not a lot of people on the forum who dislike small independent bus operators, if anything like myself they probably prefer them for the variety of vehicles. Also Tony, who works for NXWM, provided several positive comments on several small independents who have made a success in the West Midlands.
To quote you 'Social Travel are a very good company'. If they are so good and they had loyal customers on the 11C, imagine how the passengers felt when the company ceased working on the route, only to reappear a again a few months later. That would surely not encourage them to go back to Social Travel, especially as mentioned many times before they do no supply a return service. They also did not give the 74 group of routes even a slight chance of success.
Please give us an idea of what journeys you have done on Social Travel, because I'm certain many of us are dying to know! Then we may all understand the basis of your 'Social Travel are a very good company' statement.
I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.
What really would you do.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 11:47:49 AM
I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.
What really would you do.
Is that an admission that you are not running the 74 correctly, saying you will get in trouble with the TC?
Because your buses will be just as late on the 11, the same as NXWM's are regularly. TC's accept that as long as your registration allows enough time for a normal day, running late through reasons beyond your control are acceptable
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 11:47:49 AM
I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.
What really would you do.
What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on January 17, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.
Why couldn't it have been successfull if quite a few passengers get the first bus that comes and the first bus is Social Travel they will get on Social Travel? It was already mentioned they prefer the 11C because of the roadworks in Stafford.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 15, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
Where it comes from is arriva have decide to run shuttle service from stafford to the university leaving the 74 to only run a short route this is not a legal registration as the registration calls for a service to run from cannock to the university not to sit a bus at the college wait for social travel to turn up the run off & take the passengers whilst the main bus sits in gaol square collecting passengers waiting for social travel to turn up. The excuse is because of traffic! Well that is still not legal but we're getting it in the neck for NOT running an extra illegal bus. Well we don't have anymore o discs but this has held no water. One rule for one one rule for arriva. Add that to the fact that despite evidence to the tc arriva have continuously run off time & extra buses unchallenged whilst we get our ear bent for running 11 mins late a few times. Arriva have changed times with 2 weeks notice ( supposed to be a minimum of 3 weeks) whilst even with a letter of support from the council we can't start a desperately required service with less than 56 days notice. Plus the cancellation document was only posted yesterday afternoon and yet it's already been accepted this morning. Something smells rotten & I want no part of that.
Anyway I also have to consider my drivers who are unhappy at arriving back at the depot more than 2 hours late because of the rad ford bank traffic & I can't give them any assurances until after September. Well it's not one thing not two things but several things. I have to look after the best interests of the company & staff under my care. Not enthusiasts that may or may not want social to run a specific service.
Yes it's been a hard decision to make & has been made very quickly but let me ask you all, if you had a knife in your hand would you get it removed straight away or would you leave it there for a while incase the pain went away & it eventually got better.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 11:47:49 AM
I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.
What really would you do.
I'd have stuck with the 11C which generated more predictable revenues and developed the 74 / 74A on top, if license disc's & finances allowed, then look to provide an 11A in the future
Quote from: Trident 4194 on January 17, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.
Steve already explained why staff don't like the 74 - largely due to the depot being in Smethwick & the length of time it takes to get to/from Stafford
Have Social Travel looked at operating the 11A in the future?
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 11:47:49 AM
I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.
What really would you do.
I can tell you exactly what I would do.
1. I would register a timetable with the TC's office that accurately reflects running times;
2. I would look at why staff are unhappy and try to remedy it while remembering at the same time that you run the company, not them. If you start letting drivers call the shots you are on a very, very sticky wicket indeed.
Quote from: Winston on January 17, 2016, 01:22:01 PM
Steve already explained why staff don't like the 74 - largely due to the depot being in Smethwick & the length of time it takes to get to/from Stafford
I would have thought that was a bonus for the staff, getting paid for driving a bus without the hassle of passengers!
Or is that the real reason it was withdrawn, too much mileage with no revenue?
there is a lot worse out there, at least social had a go, and just a shame they put their eggs in one basket so quickly. they did at least have some sort of livery, why not put a name on god only knows. however for independents, (regardless of their problems) green bus of great wyrley - until the merc minibus finale, you heard the bus coming before the smart livery appeared. travel express - just a sham! then there is select, most of their buses are in livery and they not afraid to put their name on vehicles. good luck to social travel whatever they do.
I take your point Barry but with all due respects at times our buses are timetabled for a 20 min layover & are timed at a steady 35mph along a national speed limit rd. Without roadworks then times are too easy to keep to.
Regarding the drivers well a driver that was due back at depot at 6.30 sitting at radford bank stuck in traffic not moving is going to be very very upset, couple that to the knowledge that this may continue on till September, well you can see why they're all upset. Not pampering to the drivers at all as if it was upto them they wouldn't start till 8 & finish by 5. I ain't doing that but do have to consider their welfare. Managing staff is all about knowing when to kick ass & when to kiss it.
With what's going on traffic wise I have to show we're thinking about how to keep reliability or what we're doing about it. Whilst arriva are running unregistered shuttle service they do have kind of a case. Unfortunately I do not have that option as I only have 4 discs & am using 4 buses. If I give any more running time then I can't run a clock face timetable & will ultimately lose revenue to the point that it becomes unprofitable & then risk people's jobs.
At this time the 11 is a safe stable option it provides a good revenue stream (although nowhere near what the 74 takes). It's close to the depot so if a vehicle has a fault it'd easy for the mechanic to reach, if a driver feels unwell & needs to finish early then it's a very quick & easy process to replace him & get him home & demonstrates to the tc that we know there are timing issues with the 74 at the moment which we may not be able to deal with so are reverting to a service where we can run reliably within the tc accepted tolerance.
Ultimately as I have said before my job is to safeguard the business & it's staff & that's what I'm doing simple.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 04:11:53 PM
At this time the 11 is a safe stable option it provides a good revenue stream (although nowhere near what the 74 takes). It's close to the depot so if a vehicle has a fault it'd easy for the mechanic to reach, if a driver feels unwell & needs to finish early then it's a very quick & easy process to replace him & get him home & demonstrates to the tc that we know there are timing issues with the 74 at the moment which we may not be able to deal with so are reverting to a service where we can run reliably within the tc accepted tolerance.
Ultimately as I have said before my job is to safeguard the business & it's staff & that's what I'm doing simple.
Didn't you think about this before?
Central operate a outstation in Kiddy for their 125.
Couldn't you have done something similar?
Without delving too deeply into your driver's personal circumstances, do they all live close to Smethwick, or do any drivers live close to the Cannock area?
your bus was in Alcester & run light from the maypole /Solihull to /from their base in Alcester
Quote from: Solo1 on January 17, 2016, 06:05:10 PM
your bus was in Alcester & run light from the maypole /Solihull to /from their base in Alcester
What has Alcester and Maypole got to do with Social Travel?
Quote from: 2206 on January 17, 2016, 06:11:27 PM
What has Alcester and Maypole got to do with Social Travel?
Example of a garage miles away from any route it operates
Quote from: mranon on January 17, 2016, 03:52:14 PM
there is a lot worse out there, at least social had a go, and just a shame they put their eggs in one basket so quickly. they did at least have some sort of livery, why not put a name on god only knows. however for independents, (regardless of their problems) green bus of great wyrley - until the merc minibus finale, you heard the bus coming before the smart livery appeared. travel express - just a sham! then there is select, most of their buses are in livery and they not afraid to put their name on vehicles. good luck to social travel whatever they do.
What Green Bus of Great Wyrley who got done for un roadworthy and unsafe buses??? I remember towards the end NOV 31T one of their very last Leopards in service without a working speedo!
Quote from: 2206 on January 17, 2016, 12:29:17 PM
Why couldn't it have been successfull if quite a few passengers get the first bus that comes and the first bus is Social Travel they will get on Social Travel? It was already mentioned they prefer the 11C because of the roadworks in Stafford.
I regularly work in Stafford and have never seen this shuttle bus??? What do they use on it?
Quote from: 2206 on January 17, 2016, 06:11:27 PM
What has Alcester and Maypole got to do with Social Travel?
just saying social travel are a long way from depot running in Stafford like your bus in Alcester
@Bob can be anything from a dart to a pulsar
Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2016, 07:50:26 PM
What Green Bus of Great Wyrley who got done for un roadworthy and unsafe buses??? I remember towards the end NOV 31T one of their very last Leopards in service without a working speedo!
bob they wasn't always like that!!! however I remember many buses out in service with non-working speedos! however they had an identity, most of their drivers worked for them for years, and as far as their services I used to use as a teenager, they were never far off scheduled time.
I must say that whenever i saw or went on the Social Travel route 11C service in the past it always seems to be busy and quite well used. So i personally think that Social Travel will be quite successful when they go back on to the route 11C service.
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 04:11:53 PMWhilst arriva are running unregistered shuttle service...
Again, making allegations that Arriva are running unregistered services is quite a serious matter. It's not something I would be doing in public - unless I had cast-iron evidence to back it up...
Quote from: Steveminor on January 17, 2016, 04:11:53 PMAt this time the 11 is a safe stable option it provides a good revenue stream (although nowhere near what the 74 takes).
Yes, I suppose there is plenty of another operator's revenue to cream off on the Outer Circle without adding anything whatsoever to the service as a whole.
This seems to me like an operation looking at the short term and trying to make a fast buck without giving any consideration to passengers.
Tony alluded to it earlier but new routes can be found. Take the Xpre55 run by Central Buses. 2 brand new buses , route branded (I know people don't like this), free wifi and offering a direct service between Lichfield and Tamworth at regular intervals it has been running successfully over the past two years and has also now got customer loyalty.
Arriva were left standing and now no matter what they try on the Tamworth to Lichfield bus corridor they have lost some of the market to a good competitor.
Quote from: mranon on January 18, 2016, 10:13:06 PM
bob they wasn't always like that!!! however I remember many buses out in service with non-working speedos! however they had an identity, most of their drivers worked for them for years, and as far as their services I used to use as a teenager, they were never far off scheduled time.
.
Exactly! What went wrong
One of the ex stagecoach buses broken down on the a34 the front o/s is on its rim looks like a blowout also has anyone noticed on the s74 it says broxton not brocton
Quote from: Dutsey on January 19, 2016, 12:16:45 PM
This seems to me like an operation looking at the short term and trying to make a fast buck without giving any consideration to passengers.
Tony alluded to it earlier but new routes can be found. Take the Xpre55 run by Central Buses. 2 brand new buses , route branded (I know people don't like this), free wifi and offering a direct service between Lichfield and Tamworth at regular intervals it has been running successfully over the past two years and has also now got customer loyalty.
Arriva were left standing and now no matter what they try on the Tamworth to Lichfield bus corridor they have lost some of the market to a good competitor.
I disagree a bit. I think Arriva have managed to pull quite a few customers back now.
The thing with central on both the 66 and x55 is they rely on running 5 mins in front of Arriva to collect passengers. What would be nice on lichfield to tamworth would be a 15 mins service between arriva and central. I bet central wont do this as their revenue would drop drastically
Quote from: ntw456 on January 20, 2016, 02:28:03 PM
One of the ex stagecoach buses broken down on the a34 the front o/s is on its rim looks like a blowout also has anyone noticed on the s74 it says broxton not brocton
I have to laugh at this, ive not noticed but now I will be looking. You would not expect this from a professional company like Social Travel lol. I mean how many times do they pass the sign post for brocton and never thought oh dear weve spelt that wrong
Spelling errors quite common
ARRIVA have had spelling errors too, think it was the old fotopic site K103OHF displaying 1 WALLSALL
@ntw456 @LG @Busman Jamie - Spelling errors on LED screens are indeed quite common. I have seen it happen with many bus operators (both large big group operators and local small independent operators). I will admit that i have even made a few minor spelling errors when programing LED displays. Errors do happen and can happen with any bus operator. I would say that National Express would be just as likely to make this mistake as Social Travel would be.
Quote from: Busman Jamie on January 20, 2016, 09:14:00 PM
Spelling errors quite common
ARRIVA have had spelling errors too, think it was the old fotopic site K103OHF displaying 1 WALLSALL
My favourite from many years ago was a platform ticket for DONCSATER!
Quote from: countryliner on January 20, 2016, 09:51:46 PM
@ntw456 @LG @Busman Jamie - Spelling errors on LED screens are indeed quite common. I have seen it happen with many bus operators (both large big group operators and local small independent operators). I will admit that i have even made a few minor spelling errors when programing LED displays. Errors do happen and can happen with any bus operator. I would say that National Express would be just as likely to make this mistake as Social Travel would be.
Hasn't Blaken(h)all spelling caused issues in the past?
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 20, 2016, 09:57:10 PM
Hasn't Blaken(h)all spelling caused issues in the past?
Yes. Mainly Arriva & Nwm in my opinion.
Some of them K-OHF were retrofitted with Leyland National seats for service at Cannock!
@Bob - what's this got to do with Social Travel?
Quote from: LG on January 20, 2016, 06:13:39 PM
I disagree a bit. I think Arriva have managed to pull quite a few customers back now.
The thing with central on both the 66 and x55 is they rely on running 5 mins in front of Arriva to collect passengers. What would be nice on lichfield to tamworth would be a 15 mins service between arriva and central. I bet central wont do this as their revenue would drop drastically
I think you need to study the timetables.
Quote from: Bob on January 20, 2016, 11:26:53 PM
Some of them K-OHF were retrofitted with Leyland National seats for service at Cannock!
@Bob - what's this got to do with Social Travel?
nothing but a poster mentioned the K-OHF Volvo buses earlier in the thread
When the X55 started it was 15 mins apart from the Arriva service. It was Arriva who moved in front first so I Central followed suit.
James
Do Social Travel still have the Optare Solo SR
@Steveminor?
Yes she was out Friday on 74
Shame the 74 is finishing and arriva get to go back to their virtual monopoly
Quote from: Bob on February 07, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
Shame the 74 is finishing and arriva get to go back to their virtual monopoly
Bet they reduce the frequency too!
Quote from: Bob on February 07, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
Shame the 74 is finishing and arriva get to go back to their virtual monopoly
I thought Social Travel weren't going to leave Stafford till the 7th of March...
Quote from: Winston on January 15, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
PD1125565/4 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Beaconside given service number 74 effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/5 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Cannock Bus Station and Stafford Hospital given service number 74A effective from 06-Mar-2016.
PD1125565/6 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Dudley Road, Rotton Park
Finish Point: Dudley Road/Bearwood
Via: Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service Number: 11C
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 07-MAR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Friday except public and bank holidays
Quote from: Adam 404 on February 07, 2016, 06:34:26 PM
I thought Social Travel weren't going to leave Stafford till the 7th of March...
They aren't leaving the 74 till March but he is correct they are leaving the 74 its only a month away.
@Steveminor - I just found this photo on flickr of YX59 BXZ (Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 10.8m) with Social Travel.
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/andyburbidge/23746391974/in/set-72157663696097729/
Are you able to confirm if this is with Social Travel as i did not think that you had this in your bus fleet. Thank you.
Quote from: countryliner on February 08, 2016, 04:27:54 PM
@Steveminor - I just found this photo on flickr of YX59 BXZ (Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 10.8m) with Social Travel.
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/andyburbidge/23746391974/in/set-72157663696097729/
Are you able to confirm if this is with Social Travel as i did not think that you had this in your bus fleet. Thank you.
It is not with Social Travel it is with Select.
Been shopping
@Steveminor or does it relate to another operator?
http://www.ensignbus.com/2001-dennis-dart.html
No we were going to buy that one & a sister bus off Damsons but it had some major problems so bought the mpds instead
Quote from: Steveminor on February 09, 2016, 08:34:01 PM
No we were going to buy that one & a sister bus off Damsons but it had some major problems so bought the mpds instead
Do Dawsons sell via Ensign and Ventura as I've noticed the same batch of vehicles for sale on Ventura and Ensign?
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 09, 2016, 08:35:35 PM
Do Dawsons sell via Ensign and Ventura as I've noticed the same batch of vehicles for sale on Ventura and Ensign?
Ventura is part of DawsonRentals
Sometimes ensign buys vehicles off Damsons which they can't sell.
Ensign seems much better at selling vehicles .
Is x183 ctg dda compliant?
Guessing not, I've not seen it in a while, saw a smart looking 03 plate mpd on 74 yesterday
Saw it today im sure it doesnt have a ramp
It has a manual fold out ramp
Related Dennis Dart is for sale on Ebay - S310SHB
S309SHB is owned by Social Travel...
In case anyone was interested. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dennis-Dart-SPD-Super-Pointer-Dart-/111882433365?hash=item1a0cb67355:g:qcsAAOSw5ZBWOI9K
Quote from: Adam 404 on February 17, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Related Dennis Dart is for sale on Ebay - S310SHB
S309SHB is owned by Social Travel...
In case anyone was interested. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dennis-Dart-SPD-Super-Pointer-Dart-/111882433365?hash=item1a0cb67355:g:qcsAAOSw5ZBWOI9K
Its been on there for months.
S309SHB is not in use with Social Travel anymore.
S301 & 309 were both non dda as is the one on eBay (probably why it ain't selling ) S301 has now been scrapped with 309 due to join it as a baked beans can very soon.
Quote from: Steveminor on February 17, 2016, 10:13:19 PM
S301 & 309 were both non dda as is the one on eBay (probably why it ain't selling ) S301 has now been scrapped with 309 due to join it as a baked beans can very soon.
Shame, nice enough buses those SPD's.
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on February 17, 2016, 10:42:55 PM
Shame, nice enough buses those SPD's.
Very true, are all spds now not dda compliant?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 18, 2016, 09:22:22 AM
Very true, are all spds now not dda compliant?
No there are DDA compliant SPD.
The 2 52 plate SPDs select have are Dda, think the v reg travel express had was dda aswell
Is there a timetable for the 11C yet
@Steveminor?
Kv03 zfu on 74s today
Have social travel lost the optare havent seen it for a while?
I know it's a little late to be posting about a withdrawn service but the 74 from Cannock to Stafford seems to me to have been a strange choice considering the time and cost of 40 miles of dead running from base to start point and back to base for each vehicle every day. A second point is the addition of 2 addons to that service on the basis of what local politicians clambered for without any market research is very odd. The 74A via Walton on the Hill did not need an hourly service. Arriva withdrew their service because when the council subsidy was withdrawn passenger numbers did not justify an hourly service. What the residents of the area would have been extremely happy to see, and I know this because I live there, would have been 2 services a day, mid morning into Stafford and mid afternoon return which could have generated the passenger numbers required. The 74S via Brocton, destination displays showed the name as Broxton, was never going to be viable. The only service this village has had in the last 10 years was for 6 months when Arriva's 825 had to be diverted through the village because the normal direct route was blocked by road works. The claim about the delays caused by the road works on Radford Bank is a bit over the top, yes there were delays of up to 20 minutes at peak times but the norm was 10 minutes and that time would have been made up by layover time in Stafford and Cannock. The truth is that the service would never have been viable because it is a mainly rural route except to a couple of miles at each end. As a matter of interest to support this is the fact that Arriva have withdrawn higher capacity 74 seaters and replaced them with their standard 40+ seaters. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I hope that the team at Social Travel will learn from the mistakes made on this route and prosper on others.
Quote from: Grinder on March 19, 2016, 12:11:19 PM
I know it's a little late to be posting about a withdrawn service but the 74 from Cannock to Stafford seems to me to have been a strange choice....
.....Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I hope that the team at Social Travel will learn from the mistakes made on this route and prosper on others.
I doubt it. They operated on the 11C Outer Circle, then left it and are now back on it again, a very long circular route going in one direction only, unlike National Express which goes both ways. It will be interesting to see how long they remain on the 11C before they then go off onto another route!
Alexander bodied Darts Y338/371FJN are on the 11 today.
KV03ZFS is on the 11C today and was also on there yesteday. In plain white. Is this now a Social Travel bus the fleetlist on the main site says its with Sunny Travel
@Steveminor ?
I no longer work for them so don't know
This was on the 74s just before the end with a fleet number on the side
The 11C seems to be running regularly and the ones I have seen have been on time. I have only seen 3 vehicles; Y338FJN, Y371FJN and KV03ZFS. The timetable suggests they need 4 in the morning. Have they got any more vehicles?
Thanks for the message 2206, but wasn't KV03ZFR lost in the accident in December 2015.
Y371FJN broke down on Yardley Road while on the 11C.
Quote from: Stu on August 30, 2016, 06:55:02 PM
Just went past there on my way home. The damage to the bus didn't look too bad to be honest, but did you see the state of the black car further up the road? (which presumably was the other vehicle involved)
It was back out in service today. On the 11C.
The 08:29 and 08:54 journeys from the Fox And Goose failed to operate.
PD1125565/6 - SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED, UNIT 1 BRITTANIA WORKS, ENGINE STREET, SMETHWICK, B66 2DR
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Dudley Road, Rotton Park and Dudley Road/Bearwood given service number 11C effective from 12-Sep-2016. To amend Stopping Places and Timetable
KV03 ZFS was on the 11 on Friday with one headlight not working at all and the other flashing on and off as it went past Stechford
Quote from: Tony on October 03, 2016, 11:43:09 AM
KV03 ZFS was on the 11 on Friday with one headlight not working at all and the other flashing on and off as it went past Stechford
Some kind of distress call maybe ?? ?? ??? ;D
Social have Y381FJN on the 11C in addition to those shown on the fleet list.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on January 02, 2017, 04:05:06 PM
Social have Y381FJN on the 11C in addition to those shown on the fleet list.
Think you have misread a digit there, there isn't a Y381 FJN
Thanks Tony and 2206, I think the one I am misreading is Y338FJN. I saw it again in bad light and from the front thought it read 381, but the rear plate was clearly 338. I will check it out next time I see and decide whether the front plate is confusing or I need new glasses.
Social Travel failed to operate some journeys on the 11C today, usually 3 buses are out (PVR of 3).
However only 2 were out today, Y338FJN and Y371FJN.
The 13:37 from Ward End, The Fox and Goose was one of those that failed to operate.
SK 51 AYC on the 11C this morning, with paper stickers for the destination.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on March 10, 2017, 09:45:53 AM
SK 51 AYC on the 11C this morning, with paper stickers for the destination.
is this a loan bus or have they brought it
Wouldnt have thouggt it was a loan bus at that age.
Sunny travel have a 51 reg as well
SK 51 AYC passed the Yew Tree, Yardley, at 9.06 a.m.
KV03ZFS on 11c still in white wonder if the 51has gone back
Quote from: Solo1 on March 14, 2017, 02:20:39 PM
KV03ZFS on 11c still in white wonder if the 51has gone back
So, its been in white since they bought it in January 2016, if it had been repainted it would have been mentioned on the forum?
Quote from: 2206 on March 14, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
So, its been in white since they bought it in January 2016, if it had been repainted it would have been mentioned on the forum?
Its also on the same board on the 11C everyday.
I know it's on the same board all I was saying was SK51AYC still with social travel as the 03 reg'd was on with the 2 alwx Bodied buses
Quote from: Steveminor on March 10, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
Wouldnt have thouggt it was a loan bus at that age.
No it isn't a loan bus. Its on the 11C today.
SK51AYC is still with them and has been painted into white. It was at Ward End, The Fox and Goose on Bromford Lane this morning at 07:37 on the 11C. On the board that is usually KV03ZFS.
It is timetabled to have operated the, 06:45, 09:13, 12:42, from the City Hospital and should currently at should not long have passed Ward End on the 15:10 from the City Hospital.
Photo on photo links of sk51ayc
Quote from: 2206 on March 23, 2017, 04:15:38 PM
No it isn't a loan bus. Its on the 11C today.
SK51AYC is still with them and has been painted into white. It was at Ward End, The Fox and Goose on Bromford Lane this morning at 07:37 on the 11C. On the board that is usually KV03ZFS.
It is timetabled to have operated the, 06:45, 09:13, 12:42, from the City Hospital and should currently at should not long have passed Ward End on the 15:10 from the City Hospital.
Its doing the same today.
Y371FJN is on 11C/1 today. Operated the 07:37 from Bromford Lane, Ward End, The Fox and Goose.
Its usually always KV03ZFS that operates 11C/1.
Social Travel now have Y804 GDV, a B10M coach for private hires.
Quote from: V89MOA on April 15, 2017, 12:52:53 AM
Social Travel now have Y804 GDV, a B10M coach for private hires.
coach is there for repairs it one of their friends coaches not socai. Travel spoke to the boss who told me
Quote from: Solo1 on April 15, 2017, 11:55:42 AM
coach is there for repairs it one of their friends coaches not socai. Travel spoke to the boss who told me
Fair enough, I passed the yard this week and was told they were using it for private hire work by whoever it was there, must be an agreement between them and the owners.
Y371FJN is out on 11C today
Quote from: James4368 on April 21, 2017, 08:28:56 AM
Y371FJN is out on 11C today
Always out on there I believe??
Quote from: Trident 4194 on April 21, 2017, 08:41:39 AM
Always out on there I believe??
Yes it is always out on there. Its recently always been on 11C/2.
Quote from: Steveminor on September 05, 2015, 10:39:04 PM
The fare is £3.00 single £4.20 return or £16.00 weekly children are half fare staffordshire your cards £1.20
Do they still do the weekly ticket?
Quote from: 2206 on July 21, 2017, 09:51:31 AM
Do they still do the weekly ticket?
They don't even run that route any more.
KV03ZFS's destination display appears to have changed.
I saw it a few days ago and it was displaying 11E Bearwood Short Journey.
It was the first time I'd seen them display that, when operating a short working instead of just 11C Bearwood, or just not changing it and showing 11C Outer Circle.
KV03ZFS has been decorated with Christmas Decorations.
PD1125565/6 Registered
SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED
Route: Dudley Road, Rotton Park to Dudley Road/Bearwood via Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service number: 11C
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 07 Feb 2018
Quote from: 2206 on December 18, 2017, 08:14:21 PM
PD1125565/6 Registered
SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED
Route: Dudley Road, Rotton Park to Dudley Road/Bearwood via Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service number: 11C
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 07 Feb 2018
The NWM service changes page shows that from the 04/02/2017 "the frequency will be reduced".
Does anyone know how they're reduing the frequency and whats changing
Quote from: 2206 on January 14, 2018, 05:26:22 PM
The NWM service changes page shows that from the 04/02/2017 "the frequency will be reduced".
Does anyone know how they're reduing the frequency and whats changing
they use 3 buses at present so it will go down to 1 or 2 buses on the 11c
Quote from: 2206 on January 14, 2018, 05:26:22 PM
The NWM service changes page shows that from the 04/02/2017 "the frequency will be reduced".
Does anyone know how they're reduing the frequency and whats changing
They are reducing the frequency by making the gap between buses bigger. That's what is changing.
Quote from: Dom on January 14, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
They are reducing the frequency by making the gap between buses bigger. That's what is changing.
That doesn't explain anything.
How much bigger are they making the gap between buses, are they taking a driver and a bus off, its an uneven frequency as it is at the minute.
Quote from: 2206 on January 14, 2018, 07:00:10 PM
That doesn't explain anything.
How much bigger are they making the gap between buses, are they taking a driver and a bus off, its an uneven frequency as it is at the minute.
You could just wait to the 7th Feb.
They're Reducing the 11C from 3 buses to 2 buses from February 7th -
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=5311C&sup=%20&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_50647066&lineVer=9&itdLPxx_spTr=9&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=SOC
Social Travel is currently up for sale...
https://www.daltonsbusiness.com/coachbustaxi-hire-businesses-for-sale/successful-travel-business-west-midlands-uk/427967
Wonder whybl social travel is opp for sale if making a profit
The attached image was my reaction when I saw it...
They're worth probably £89999 less!!!
I thought if they'd sell up, they'd be asking the Sunny and DTS guys if they wanted it.
Nobody will pay that amount. The buses probably amount to only £20k in value combined.
Quote from: justlookingaround on January 31, 2018, 11:20:30 PM
I thought if they'd sell up, they'd be asking the Sunny and DTS guys if they wanted it.
Nobody will pay that amount. The buses probably amount to only £20k in value combined.
What Sunny/DTS guys?? It's all to go in the same pot!
Successful Business is also a debateable topic...
Quote from: Straightlines on February 01, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
What Sunny/DTS guys?? It's all to go in the same pot!
Successful Business is also a debateable topic...
"Number of Employees: 4 "
Shows its just Social Travel up for sale.
If they were all up for sale they'd have more than 4 employees
Turnover £250,000, profit £50,000 - they're having a laugh aren't they, especially as further down it says projected profits £20,000-£50,000
Also number of employees 4 that's quite high for a 2 bus operation when the director drives himself.
Quote from: Steveminor on February 01, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
Also number of employees 4 that's quite high for a 2 bus operation when the director drives himself.
Currently a 3 bus operation, its not supposed to change till next Wednesday.
How much are their assets worth.
3 buses, about 5 grand each and that's generous.
What else is included? How much would it cost to register on the 11c and get going. How have they valued it at 90 grand?
Quote from: MW on February 01, 2018, 07:35:39 PM
How much are their assets worth.
3 buses, about 5 grand each and that's generous.
What else is included? How much would it cost to register on the 11c and get going. How have they valued it at 90 grand?
They've got a fleet of 4 buses currently .
- Y371FJN.
- Y338FJN.
- KV03ZFS.
- SK51AYC.
Tonys fleetlist also shows they've got a coach, Y804GDV.
Quote from: 2206 on February 01, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
They've got 4 a fleet of 4 buses currently .
- Y371FJN.
- Y338FJN.
- KV03ZFS.
- SK51AYC.
Tonys fleetlist also shows they've got a coach, Y804GDV.
I now value the buses at 3 grand each after looking on eBay, and that's the 2003 one. No idea about the coach, presumably under 10 grand.
Quote from: Tony on February 01, 2018, 07:08:53 PM
Turnover £250,000, profit £50,000 - they're having a laugh aren't they, especially as further down it says projected profits £20,000-£50,000
Running empty buses on the 11 all day must be highly profitable!!
Can we expect some kind of announcement from CityFox Group any time soon? :D
On a less-serious note, perhaps one of our armchair bus operating high-flyers here might consider having a go at actually running a bus company? ;)
Quote from: MW on February 01, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
I now value the buses at 3 grand each after looking on eBay, and that's the 2003 one. No idea about the coach, presumably under 10 grand.
I was working for them when they bought the Alexander's so I know they were bought for less than 3k for the pair. Zfs still has outstanding finance so has no asset value as yet don't know about the 4th bus as it was acquired after I left for claribel.
The coach is no longer in the fleet so I would estimate they have an asset value of less than 10k with a goodwill value of 0.
The o discs may be of value to Mike James I hear he's in need of some.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on February 01, 2018, 08:06:19 PM
Running empty buses on the 11 all day must be highly profitable!!
They're not empty all day, no.
Obviously they're are certainly nowhere near as busy as NX, but they carry a decent load on lots of journeys, especially at peak times.
The 16:16 DTS 11A from Acocks Green always gets a full load.
The 07:39 Social 11C from the Fox And Goose often got a full load daily.
There's something else fishy going on here as well.
Central buses have a fleet of 31 and an annual turnover of £2.8m. That's around £90,000 per bus. Social claim a £0.5m turnover, thats £125,000 per bus.
I find that somewhat high.
Quote from: 2206 on February 01, 2018, 08:50:08 PM
They're not empty all day, no.
Obviously they're are certainly nowhere near as busy as NX, but they carry a decent load on lots of journeys, especially at peak times.
The 16:16 DTS 11A from Acocks Green always gets a full load.
The 07:39 Social 11C from the Fox And Goose often got a full load daily.
Do they even run to those times? I thought it was operation find the gap in the NX Timetable!?
The 11 has been historically tried by many operators and the reality is that it's a terrible route to compete on. Going round the full circle is also a bad idea as the 'gaps' become much harder to find...
Still, given the rate a certain PLC is buying up West Midlands Operators then maybe we can expect a London Stock Exchange announcement next week 😂
Quote from: Straightlines on February 02, 2018, 04:50:20 PM
Do they even run to those times? I thought it was operation find the gap in the NX Timetable!?
The 11 has been historically tried by many operators and the reality is that it's a terrible route to compete on. Going round the full circle is also a bad idea as the 'gaps' become much harder to find...
Still, given the rate a certain PLC is buying up West Midlands Operators then maybe we can expect a London Stock Exchange announcement next week 😂
Yes they do run to those times.
NWM have put the new Social Travel timetable up at bus stops, but have put the old one on it as well right next to the new one.
So they've put both the old and new timetables up at stops.
someone need to look at company house for the turnover profit of Social travel
Quote from: Solo1 on February 02, 2018, 07:19:55 PM
someone need to look at company house for the turnover profit of Social travel
Go on then
You can probably find something from the stuff submitted here (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08741911/filing-history), I'd find it myself but I don't have a clue when it comes to stuff like this.
Looks like the 11C's timetable is changing again.
PD1125565/6 Registered
SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED
Route: Dudley Road, Rotton Park to Dudley Road/Bearwood via Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service number: 11C
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 28 Mar 2018
Asking price has been reduced to £40k now.
Quote from: justlookingaround on February 28, 2018, 05:08:52 AM
Asking price has been reduced to £40k now.
It's still up for sale on the website!
https://www.daltonsbusiness.com/coachbustaxi-hire-businesses-for-sale/successful-travel-business-west-midlands-uk/427967
There was no sign of them this morning and it didn't look like they're operating.
07:37 11C from Ward End, The Fox & Goose failed to operate.
Presumably as they only seem to have 1 bus (SK51AYC) and one driver now, when the driver or bus isn't available like today then they don't operate.
NX 4515 which turned up at around that time, was seemingly on time.
Social Travel have put up Christmas decorations, in the interior of SK51AYC, which is also out as usual on their 11C today.
its the driver that does it in a few weeks he will be dressed as santa :) :) :) :) social only have 1 driver now
PD1125565/6 Cancelled
SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED
Route: Dudley Road, Rotton Park to Dudley Road/Bearwood via Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service number: 11C ()
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 13 Apr 2019
Quote from: justlookingaround on February 07, 2019, 10:18:26 PM
PD1125565/6 Cancelled
SOCIAL TRAVEL PRIVATE LIMITED
Route: Dudley Road, Rotton Park to Dudley Road/Bearwood via Perry Barr, Erdington, Yardley, Acocks Green, Cotteridge, Bearwood
Service number: 11C ()
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 13 Apr 2019
That's a shame, i'll miss the 07:39 from the Fox and Goose, it looks like i'll only have one option and will have to use NX and their overcrowded buses everyday now. It always picked up a decent number of peoplem and a few standing passengers usually.
Presumably thats the end of Social Travel? Is anyone aware what the reason for their demise is.
Will the 4 DTS busses on the 11 just continue as normal after this?
They may do private hire instead unless they are closing for good